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Originally posted by thedeadtruth
reply to post by mmiichael
At least I have the moral fortitude to call it like it is. No pussy footing around my opinions like you.
Here is a questions for you I bet you do not answer.
(1) Do you believe God made promises and promised land to the Jews and no-one else ?
It is a Yes or No question.
Originally posted by audas
who gives a stuff what the Jews claim some irrelevant mythical fantasy they themselves made up may or may not have said according to them. They can just change it tomorrow to say "God said all iPhones belong to Jews" - thats the power of making up stories, peddling them for so long you end up believing them - no matter how incredibly senile they sound.
My God told me " All of Saudi Arabia belongs to me" - I have a piece of paper which i wrote this down upon - hence proving my claims. I am now amassing weapons, which I will get from the US by convincing them they are evil if they do not support me as 50 million non jews were killed by Germans in the second world war and therefore I deserve to have Saudi Arabia and the US has to help me otherwise they are just Anglophobes who are self loathing NAZIS - ......
OPEN LETTER TO PRESIDENT MUBARAK FROM THE GAZA FREEDOM MARCH
December 26, 2009
Dear President Mubarak;
We, representing 1,362 individuals from 43 countries arriving in Cairo to participate in the Gaza Freedom March, are pleading to the Egyptians and your reputation for hospitality.
We are peacemakers. We have not come to Egypt to create trouble or cause conflict. On the contrary. We have come because we believe that all people -- including the Palestinians of Gaza -- should have access to the resources they need to live in dignity. We have gathered in Egypt because we believed that you would welcome and support our noble goal and help us reach Gaza through your land.
As individuals who believe in justice and human rights, we have spent our hard-earned, and sometimes scarce, resources to buy plane tickets, book hotel rooms and secure transportation only to stand in solidarity with the Palestinians of Gaza living under a crushing Israeli blockade.
We are doctors, lawyers, students, academics, poets and musicians. We are young and old. We are Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists and secular. We represent civil society groups in many countries who coordinated this large project with the civil society in Gaza.
We have raised tens of thousands of dollars for medical aid, school supplies and winter clothing for the children of Gaza. But we realize that in addition to material aid, the Palestinians of Gaza need moral support. We came to offer that support on the difficult anniversary of an invasion that brought them so much suffering.
The idea of the Gaza Freedom March—a nonviolent march to the Israeli Erez crossing-- emerged during one of our trips to Gaza in May, a trip that was kindly facilitated by the Egyptian government. Ever since the idea emerged, we have been talking to your government through your embassies overseas and directly with your Foreign Ministries. Your representatives have been kind and supportive. We were asked to furnish information about all the participants—passports, dates of birth, occupations—which we have done in good faith. We have answered every question, met every request. For months we have been working under the assumption that your government would facilitate our passage, as it has done on so many other occasions. We waited and waited for an answer.
Meanwhile, time was getting short and we had to start organizing. Travel over the Christmas season is not easy in the countries where many of us live. Tickets have to be purchased weeks, if not months, in advance. This is what all 1,362 individuals did. They spent their own funds or raised money from their communities to pay their way. Add to this the priceless time, effort and sacrifice by all these people to be away from their homes and loved ones during their festive season.
In Gaza, civil society groups—students, unions, women, farmers, refugee groups—have been working nonstop for months to organize the march. They have organized workshops, concerts, press conferences, endless meetings—all of this with their own scarce resources. They have been buoyed by the anticipated presence of so many global citizens coming to support their just cause.
If the Egyptian government decides to prevent the Gaza Freedom March, all this work and cost is lost.
And that's not all. It is practically impossible, this late in the game, to stop all these people from travelling to Egypt, even if we wanted to. Moreover, most have no plans in Egypt other than to arrive at a predetermined meeting point to head together to the Gaza border. If these plans are cancelled there will be a lot of unjustified suffering for the Palestinians of Gaza and over a thousand internationals who had nothing in mind but noble intentions.
We plead to you to let the Gaza Freedom March continue so that we can join the Palestinians of Gaza to march together on December 31, 2009.
We are truly hopeful that we will receive a positive response from you and thank you for your assistance.
Tighe Barry, Gaza Freedom March coordinator
Medea Benjamin, CODEPINK, USA
Olivia Zemor, Euro-Palestine, France
David Torres, ECCP, Belgium
Germano Monti, Forum Palestine, Italy
Ziyaad Lunat, Gaza Freedom March, Europe
Ehab Lotayef, Gaza Freedom March, Canada
Alessandra Mecozzi, Action for Peace-Italy
Ann Wright, Gaza Freedom March coordinator
Kawthar Guediri, Collectif National pour une Paix Juste et Durable entre Palestinens et Israeliens, France
Mark Johnson, Fellowship of Reconciliation
Thomas Sommer, Focus on The Global South, India
Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by Dark Ghost
You must have been reading only what you wanted to read.
selective reading I guess.
how many are going so far back as to the creation of israel?
most people are talking about the horror's of today and operation cast lead
and today's destroying 900 palestinian homes and building 700 jewish homes
stop the selective reading please
Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Eh, what exactly is a "Jewish home"? I think you unintentionally let the cat out of the bag right then...
Israel has invited proposals to build nearly 700 new apartments in Jewish neighborhoods in eastern Jerusalem.
Israeli authorities say 16,200 Jews moved to the country in 2009,
it said in 2008, almost 14,000 Jews came to live in Israel
Sunday's statement said a total of 221,000 Jews immigrated over the past decade.
Israel offers automatic citizenship to Jews who move there. About 80 percent of the nation's 7 million residents are Jewish.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mmiichael
The Stern Gang was founded to fight against the British in Palestine, not the Nazis, and only the Arabs to a lesser extent.
This is documented as was the Stern Gang’s terrorist bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem that functioned as the headquarters for the British Mandate.
Your arguments are always useless Proty because you just open the history box and pick anecdoteal examples to promote arguments.
At a n isolate period in time WWI- WWII, Jews were in conflict with Britain over immigration quotas to the British Palestine Mandate. The Stern Gang were 60-70 years ago. Repeat, 60-70 years ago. They're gone, things have changed. Britain has dissolved their colonial empire and has a different relationship with Jews of the world now.
Jusat like things are different in the Sinai peninsula. The Arabs in the West Bank occupied by Jordan 1950-66, reinvented themselves in 1967 as Palestinian homeless victims. They have mercilessly been manipulated as pawns for corrupt beyond redemption Middle East leaders. Iran is just the most recent.
The Middle East is culturally, politicially, intellectually, socio-economically Africa North. They will be drained of their vital resources and return to the poverty they have mired themselves in for a millenium.
Israel has done something with what it has in the last 60 years. Neighbouring Arabs nostalgic for the 7th Century, are still wrestling with their inability to win tribal wars against Jews war or even lose with dignity. Who loses wars and sits in camps for half a century?
You can open your toy box of historical factoids and try to show Jews worldwide are responsible for the abominable resource and domestic mismanagement of Middle East leaders since oil became the critical resource in the world.
But only the politically naive and haters on conspiracy sites buy into that currently popular mythology.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mmiichael
Who might my arguments be useless for?
Lets see how on the money old Protoplasmic Traveler is and let us look at what the "Psuedo Intellectual Rabid Anti-Semites of the CIA had to say in 1947 regarding the Stern Gang"
Wow imagine that my Psuedo Intellectual Rabid Anti-Semite Knowledge comes from good old Langley Virginia and the CIA!
As evidenced through this Freedom of Information Act Document.
Peace, where from?
The peace process might turn either way. Arab governments have accepted Israel, but those governments are crumbling. We should expect Islamic revolutions in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. The last two are particularly doomed, like any monarchies. In Syria, the population will revolt against Alawite dominance.
The ayatollahs’ regime is crumbling, but at the same time it is taking over other states: Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Yemen, and Sudan. In Egypt, too, Iranian influence is rising. It remains unknown whether the Iranian satellite regimes will become viable before the ayatollahs lose their power. Hamas operated for many years without Iranian assistance before Israel assassinated the fiercely independent Sheikh Yassin, and Hezbollah also proved capable of surviving by selling drugs and low-level money counterfeiting.
In any entropic system, the overall trend is toward moderation, and we would expect the Middle East to moderate just as Europe did. On other hand, there will be many pangs on the road to moderation, and even Europe is arguably still capable of producing violent outbursts.
Even as Arab oil income is rising, it is falling in relative terms; Arab economies continue to shrink compared to Western ones. Oil buys the Arabs progressively less Western weapons and corporate shares. The dwindling of their oil income is particularly painful on the background of exploding Muslim populations and their ever-increasing demands for welfare. Rural populations stream into cities where they get used to welfare. The increased political awareness of the population requires the unpopular governments to continuously increase welfare allocations in order to buy compliance.
Economic troubles won’t preclude the Arabs from developing high-ticket nuclear weapons as the development became cheaper due to the proliferation of nuclear technology. Iran won’t become so poor as to be unable to spare a few hundred million dollars per year for subversive movements in other countries. If Israel’s nuclear deterrence holds, and wars are limited to conventional weapons, the economic downturn will preclude Muslims from maintaining capable armies, and diminish the chances of a large-scale war. On other hand, cash-strapped Iran waged a Chinese-style war with Iraq, in which the ayatollahs relied on insufficiently equipped but suicidally-minded soldiers. Though primitive mass armies might fight wars between Arab states, there is little chance of a similar attack on Israel: Egypt, potentially a Muslim Brotherhood country, cannot march its troops across the vast Sinai desert to attack Tel Aviv; Hezbollah cannot amass that many suicidal soldiers in laid-back Lebanon, and Syrians are very far removed from the level of religious indoctrination necessary to push them by the millions over the Golan Heights into Israeli population centers.
Whatever is the long-term trend, in the short term Israel’s enemies will become more radical. Iran is besieging Israel from almost all sides: Hamas is dependent on it for weapons, Hezbollah for money, Assad is just in love with the ayatollahs, and Egyptian radical groups have developed substantial ties with them. Bringing democracy to Lebanon and the Palestinian territories dealt a mortal blow to moderates: now they cannot brutally suppress their radical opponents and must compete with them in elections. Abbas cannot afford to be seen as less anti-Israeli than Hamas. He lacks Hamas’s credibility, which was won by unrelenting struggle against the Zionists and which can justify compromises. Abbas therefore cannot agree to any concessions whatsoever, ever the minor territorial exchanges that Olmert offered him. Even if Abbas signs a deal with Israel, even if he pushes it through his corrupt PLO Council, Hamas and PIJ won’t accept the deal—and it is only their acceptance which matters in terms of ending terrorism. Fatah’s younger terrorists of the Al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades and Tanzim cannot look inferior to Hamas, and would join it in rejecting a deal with Israel—unless Israel cedes the Temple Mount to the Palestinians and allows potentially millions of refugees to return. Israel’s crackdown on Hamas in Gaza created a situation in which the terrorist group’s Syrian leadership became its international mouthpiece, and with Iranian help, the financier. Heavily dependent on Iran, and lacking independently minded leaders of Sheikh Yassin’s caliber, Hamas cannot be made to change its rejectionist stance any time soon—not until the ayatollahs’ regime falls down.
In Lebanon, Hezbollah has to remain militant. The terrorist group has developed a reasonably sophisticated military wing, but has no civilian agenda. In peacetime, when the Shiites do not need its protection from Israelis, Palestinians, or local Christians, Hezbollah has no platform with which to attract voters. Even though Lebanon slipped toward Islamization after much of its middle-class Christian population emigrated, the country is still far removed in its religious fervor from the Shah’s Iran. There are no significant centers of Islamic studies in Lebanon such as were available in Iran. Despite the influence exerted by armed fundamentalists, Lebanon remains a secular country. That, however, is not a guarantee against a Hezbollah takeover. The terrorist group has built a parliamentary bloc of over 30 percent, amassed significant arsenals, and infiltrated the US-backed Lebanese army, thus credibly positioning itself for a putsch.
Many revolutionaries have faced dilemmas similar to the Hezbollah’s: once they come to power, they have to enforce their values on society or they will quickly disappear in political competition. The Bolsheviks and ayatollahs imposed their values upon their respective societies, but Hezbollah stands very little chance of repeating their ugly successes. It is inconceivable that Lebanese Christians, Druze, Sunnis, and atheists would accept Hezbollah’s fervent religiosity or pan-Islamic patriotism. Hezbollah’s only option if it wishes to remain a prominent force is to continue its militancy. Judging by its tremendous military buildup in the absence of Israeli designs on Lebanon, the terrorist group clearly aims to take the fight into the Galilee, first to liberate former Shiite villages, then to return the refugees, and finally to help the Palestinians regain their entire country.
In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood might take power in transparent elections, or through riots if the central power is weakened; the first scenario is more likely. The Brotherhood will renounce the peace treaty with Israel, or at least circumvent it with extensive aid to Palestinian terrorists.
In Syria, young Assad is an admirer of Hezbollah and Iran. Less pragmatic than his late father, he is also smarter and more daring. It might be possible to woo Assad away from Iran with strong economic incentives
No one is willing to fight a war. Syria stands no chance against Israel. As for the guerrillas, a large-scale confrontation would turn them from an efficient terrorist force into an inept army. It took Khomeini’s persuasion to churn out tens of thousands of suicidal soldiers; Hamas and Hezbollah cannot scramble more than a handful of martyrs who only inflict statistically minor damage on Israel. The state of extreme hostility will persist, ruptured occasionally by violent outbreaks.