US won't stop Israeli strike on Iran: Obama

reply to post by desertdreamer

Hmmm, still nothing to add to the topic, only personal attacks. nice.

Back to the topic... again. (derailers?)
Regarding Islamic behavior on Christmas:
"To release this video on Christmas Day is an affront to the deeply concerned family and friends of Bowe Bergdahl, demonstrating contempt for religious traditions and the teachings of Islam," said U.S. Navy Rear Adm. Gregory Smith, spokesman for NATO's International Security Assistance Force.

Originally posted by Nomad451
Its only a matter of WHEN Israel will finally have had enough, and will strike causing...(Add your scenario).

We are are tired of Israel's attempts to bring in the US in their wars.

Iraq was the last straw. Gaza was a massacre. Israel is on it's own.

Any report from the U.S. President that says the US can't stop Israel is more likely on a premises that Obama said K.M.B. to Israel with words like, "hold your own gosh darn hand and grow the frak up."

There are more serious matters in this world.

Originally posted by munkey66
The US will be guilty by association.

Exactly why Obama and the U.S. People won't help Israel. Israel's blackmail is clearly uncovered. It's almost comedy now despite the ... you know.

[edit on 25-12-2009 by dzonatas]

Originally posted by dzonatas

We are are tired of Israel's attempts to bring in the US in their wars.

Iraq was the last straw. Gaza was a massacre. Israel is on it's own.

1991, Saudi Arabia asks the US to set up forces in the region to stop the invasion of Kuwait and possibly Saudi Arabia by Iraq. Iraq loses the war. Settlements made.

Cut to 2003, Saddam Hussein refuses to maintain no-fly zone, attacking Kurds, violates the terms of oil-for food program. US goes in.

2005, Israel returns Gaza to Palestinian control. 2007, Hamas uses Gaza as a base to shell Israel trying to kill civilians. Repeatedly warned of retaliation, persists. Israeli forces go in and cleans out missile bases, tunnels, etc. Hamas leadership hides in hospital basements and uses public buildings and children as human shields. No uniforms for militants and later claims all deaths were civilians. Top leader hiding in Damascus.

Where exactly is Israel bringing the US into wars? Places, dates, documentation? Or is this just more unfounded propaganda from you Revolutionary Guard handlers?


M

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mmiichael

 

Ever consider the possibility Iran is currently run by religious fanatics and military thugs?

Were we talking about Iran or Israel?

You have just described practically every nation on earth except Costa Rica which has no standing army.

If I were to question every self imposed Cuban exile about the Castro regime in Cuba it is doubtful one would have anything good to say about it.

If I were to question everyone in Cuba it is likely the majority of people there would have nice things to say about it.

By the way Michael you should hear some of the things the Israelis who live in Miami Beach have to say about Israel.

Not too flattering, but hey, I will leave the running everyone and everything down to others.

For some reason there is a certain type of person that really feels they make themselves look better by attempting to make everyone and everything else look worse.

Imagine that!

Yeah let's have more anecdotes. My dry cleaner has some political opinions you might want to hear.

Iran had an Islamic Revolution in 1979. There were clear unambiguous religious goals stated that have been adhered to. Fundamentalis clerical regimes are unique in this day and age.

In response to changes, millions left the country as culture, business opportunities, personal freedoms have drastically diminished.

This is the consistent view of millions of Iranian emigres and a good portion of the Iranian population.

The beneficiaries of the Islamic Revolution limited to a new clerical elite who control industries and exports, and a new Revolutionary Guard elite who control foreign policy, industries and industries.

Meanwhile the general quality of life, opportunities, and spending power for the other 70 million Iranian nationals continues to decline.

Iran is not a fun place these days. Not because of the actions of Israel, US, Britain, CIA, The Spice Girls or whoever they are blaming this week. An abysmally exploitive regime has locked it's jaws on the Iranian people that has no fans. Except maybe a couple people on this forum.

M

reply to post by mmiichael


You know what I say Michael different strokes for different folks or do you some how rest easier at night imagining that every place on earth has a Disney World, a McDonald's and a Shepardic Temple where mystics dabble in the occult and kaballah?

The world is a big place and I say live and let live.

I was not born in Miami, I was not forced to move here, the truth is I could live any where I want to in the world.

So can really anyone else who wants to accept their inherent responsibilities as a human being.

The fact that other people, other towns, other nations have different ways of life and different ways of looking at life does not frighten me Michael.

I have no fear that anyone, anywhere, any how is going to convince me to enjoy or not enjoy, believe or not believe things any differently than I wish too.

I have that very real strength.

Some people have very real insecurity and it shows, boy does it show.

Make love and not war, and clean up one's own backyard first!

You see Michael the ironic thing is that your ultimate argument for the existence of Israel at any and all cost is an interchangable argument with Iran.

You believe that some small slice of earth is justified for a destinct way of life for a like minded group of mostly Jewish people who want to live in that fashion together as a nation.

Your contention is that they should be able to enjoy that right simply because like minded people unique in their shared ways should have that right to band together as a nation unto themselves.

Iran's theoacracy is absolutely no different than the vast majority of the people who live there want to live that way.

So they too should have that right.

I wouldn't want to live in Israel, or Iran but I feel both should be allowed to exist within their own borders as they wish to exist.

I just take exception to when nations want to violently export phillosophy or dominance overtly.

You will say there are lots of Islamic countries though.

I will remind you that Jews are involved in lots of Judean Christian Nations.

Basically some people want to practice exceptionalism when the exception is limited to only them.

This is particuarly glaring in Zionist supporters of Israel. Exceptions should be allowed but only for us, because we are us.

Some people have an incredibly unproductive and anti-social way of looking at the world.

I think personally its all borne of deep seeded insecurity and frankly that's just another form of emotional domination I reject out of hand as I reject all forms of emotional domination out of hand.

If Israel should have the right to exist as what ever perversion of the human condition it can conjure up, then surely Iran should be able to as well too.

To each their own.

You keep yours, I will keep mine, and let's let Iran keep their's while we are at it too!

Originally posted by mmiichael
Where exactly is Israel bringing the US into wars?

Oh? It hasn't tried? This is new news that just starts to bring questions to why exactly an article like this exists. Hmm, lets take a look at the article:

The Israeli officials, who asked to remain anonymous, told Haaretz that Obama made it clear to Hu that at some point the US would no longer be able to prevent Israel from acting as it saw fit in response to the perceived Iranian threat.

Aha! This news actually originates from an Israeli official.

Since when does an anonymous Israeli official have any authority over the position that the U.S. President has on the situation?

The rest of your post is just off-topic, mmiichael, and to try to bring up reasons why Israel massacred Gaza to this thread here in attempts to gain support for Israel's attempts to get the U.S. to attack Iran only further supports my point.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You see Michael the ironic thing is that your ultimate argument for the existence of Israel at any and all cost is an interchangable argument with Iran.

You believe that some small slice of earth is justified for a destinct way of life for a like minded group of mostly Jewish people who want to live in that fashion together as a nation.

If Israel attacks Iran, there is a large probability that Israel will look like that greatest threat on Earth. I doubt that Israel wants to attack alone, and given that probability is their reason why they haven't. To make it look like the US had any involvement is their only way to reduce that probability.

#2 reason being that U.S. troops are in the area. It would be stupid.

[edit on 25-12-2009 by dzonatas]

Originally posted by dzonatasHmm, lets take a look at the article:

The Israeli officials, who asked to remain anonymous, told Haaretz that Obama made it clear to Hu that at some point the US would no longer be able to prevent Israel from acting as it saw fit in response to the perceived Iranian threat.

Aha! This news actually originates from an Israeli official.

Since when does an anonymous Israeli official have any authority over the position that the U.S. President has on the situation?

The rest of your post is just off-topic, mmiichael, and to try to bring up reasons why Israel massacred Gaza to this thread here in attempts to gain support for Israel's attempts to get the U.S. to attack Iran only further supports my point.

Uh, excuse me. He didn't say anything!

Some uncited piece of empty rhetoric that might be an offhand comment from the unnamed head of the Israeli chicken marketing board, and it's manipulation of the US and a threat to world peace.

How about this juicy threatening quote:

"The Guatemalan [fill in any country] officials, who asked to remain anonymous, said Obama made it clear the US would no longer be able to prevent Guatemala [fill in any country] from acting as it saw fit in response to perceived Iranian threat."

Aha! The news originates from a Guatemalan official.

Among many other strategics concerns the US went into Iraq and Afghanistan to contain in part to contain Iran. US Middle East has been dictated primarily by Saudi Arabia for decades.

Not that the Saudis, along with every other country in the region sat quietly while Iran supplied Hamas with funding, training, and weapons to fight Israel a year ago.

The strained efforts to exonerate the Iranian regime of any responsibility for their actions never ceases to amaze.

I'm waiting for the spin on what Iran is doing fighting the Saudis and now American forces in Yemen. I'm sure some succulent quote from some unnamed official somewhere can be found online to implicate Israel.

M





[edit on 25-12-2009 by mmiichael]

Iran and Israel have been fighting over religious views for over 2000 years and will do so 2000 years from now if they are still around to do so. Sooner or later they will nuke each other and that is a fact. A fact that no one or nothing can stop. The best we could hope for to to let them kill each other and stay out of it. If we get involved we will be sorry to say the least. You have to remember the mind set of these people. They do not think like we do and they like the idea of dieing for there religious views. They have little value of life when it comes to these things. They will some day nuke each other but are we going to get ourselves caught in the cross fire?

reply to post by mmiichael


Ha, ha or should I say ho, ho, ho some rich holiday humor there Michael.

Being cut now by that unsubstantiated poorly sourced news article now too?

Practically every inflamatory piece of news about Iran released from Israel, the United States and the United Kingdom reads the same.

An annonymous official not authorized to make statements said_______to_______regarding_______

Time and time again when one of these largely fictional works aimed at attempting to manipulate people emotionally and editorialized for them to draw a desired conclusion regarding a nation or regime like Iran it appears in this fashion.

When posters aren't posting those choice mainstream news media tidbits devoid of any journalistic integrity they make broad sweeping statements like..."Every Iranian I have ever met says__________about__________" without of course bothering to qualify how many Iranians that is and in what context they said what they said and who precisely they are.

Hint American Prisons are full of people who don't like the American Government...go figure I know, what a surprise.

So once again its that wonderful dual standard regarding Zionist contentions that just perturbs and irks people who believe in equitable applications...

An unsubstantiated, unsourced, bit of speculation in the press regarding Israel is always nonsense?

An unsubstantiated, unsourced, bit of speculation in the press regarding Iran is always correct?

Yet another classic example of that famous Zionist exceptionalism at work!

Merry Christmas, thanks for the laugh!



[edit on 25/12/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
An unsubstantiated, unsourced, bit of speculation in the press regarding Iran is always correct?

Yet another classic example of that famous Zionist exceptionalism at work!

Merry Christmas, thanks for the laugh!

I really don't know how to comment further on Iran I just know all the Iranians I know, some of whom only left the country in the last couple years, are dismayed by the Mullah/Revolutionary Guard stranglehold on Persian culture and tradition. Seems a few people in Iran don't think they're in Paradise either.

Irony in all this is the US are Saudi asskissers and apologists. While those critical of the US end up being Iranian asskisssers and apologists.

The entire Middle East is filled with peace lovers and hapless victims.
Their endless conflicts are always the fault of some Jews in the US or Israel.

What's the politically correct term? - "Zionists"

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
An unsubstantiated, unsourced, bit of speculation in the press regarding Iran is always correct?

Yet another classic example of that famous Zionist exceptionalism at work!

Merry Christmas, thanks for the laugh!

I really don't know how to comment further on Iran I just know all the Iranians I know, some of whom only left the country in the last couple years, are dismayed by the Mullah/Revolutionary Guard stranglehold on Persian culture and tradition. Seems a few people in Iran don't think they're in Paradise either.

Irony in all this is the US are Saudi asskissers and apologists. While those critical of the US end up being Iranian asskisssers and apologists.

The entire Middle East is filled with peace lovers and hapless victims.
Their endless conflicts are always the fault of some Jews in the US or Israel.

What's the politically correct term? - "Zionists"

What i would like to post here is that, keep in mind the way the globe is at this current state is directly attributed to what WE have chosen to do so. So by posting that the U.S. is ass kissing or some secret cult is in control or some Illuminati is in control is as close to the truth as you and I being related. Obviously you and myself have nothing in common rather than a simple web site, therefore i would be more or less inclined to stress that yes, the U.S. is very much in control in what you or what a minority may persevere as a total collapse.

Do you think we become a global player purely by chance ?

Use your brain don't abuse it...!

Originally posted by mmiichael
Among many other strategics concerns the US went into Iraq and Afghanistan to contain in part to contain Iran. US Middle East has been dictated primarily by Saudi Arabia for decades.

That made me laugh. Not only have you just stated U.S. is somehow suddenly actively engaged in war with Iran, but somehow the peace that has been there between for the last few decades have suddenly disappeared. I like to see you try to go to every 7-11 store in the U.S. and accuse the owners of that store of some secret plot to invade the U.S. when they left Iran. At least, ask them how they were able to enter the U.S. if you think the U.S. has wanted to 'contain' Iran.

Not that the Saudis, along with every other country in the region sat quietly while Iran supplied Hamas with funding, training, and weapons to fight Israel a year ago.

The strained efforts to exonerate the Iranian regime of any responsibility for their actions never ceases to amaze.

The amount of canned Hasbara responses I've seen don't amaze me. They are so repetitive and redundant that it makes it seem like history never changes (at least history as written by Israel), over the past year and beyond.

Somehow Israel manages to forget about North Korea.

EDIT: At least the anonymous Israeli officials do.

[edit on 25-12-2009 by dzonatas]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mmiichael

 

Ha, ha or should I say ho, ho, ho some rich holiday humor there Michael.

Being cut now by that unsubstantiated poorly sourced news article now too?

Practically every inflamatory piece of news about Iran released from Israel, the United States and the United Kingdom reads the same.

An annonymous official not authorized to make statements said_______to_______regarding_______

My friend,


How may or should i say in which manner should i respond to such an outline... ?

reply to post by tristar


Why of course such outlines are meant to be filled out in the manner one is simply politically inclined to fill them out my friend.

More and more the only news the mainstream media releases is in this fashion of poorly sourced unsubstantiated statements made by anonymous officials.

This is of course nothing particular new as legendary Civil War Union General William Tecumseh Sherman once famously said…

“Reporters, pick up every bit of camp gossip and rumor and report it as fact, I would kill them all but I have no doubt should I that there would be news from Hell before breakfast”.

So much of the information being put forth from the mainstream news media is obviously camp gossip and rumor from similar camp sources where anonymous officials not authorized to speak simply are alleged to have said this or that for obviously little but the sake of some predetermined political agenda.

Amazingly here on ATS where the most critical minds come to discuss and debate far too many of them are willing to accept what really is just camp gossip and rumor put forward by an unscrupulous media devoid of any integrity and professionalism as fact when it suits their own political agenda.

People who say what they mean, and mean what they say aren’t people who are afraid to go on record. People who know what they are talking about because they are in a position to know what they are talking about are in fact authorized to say what they mean and mean what they say and do.

It’s bad enough that the mainstream news media purveys this kind of garbage its especially sad when people who claim to be denying ignorance do so!

Originally posted by dzonatas

That made me laugh. Not only have you just stated U.S. is somehow suddenly actively engaged in war with Iran, but somehow the peace that has been there between for the last few decades have suddenly disappeared.

Check out history sometime.

During the Islamic Revolution of 1979, a large number of Americans were held hostage for something like 450 days. Unfortunate start of 30 years of tempestuous relations with Iran. Some feel the hostage crisis helped prompt the disastrous Iran-Iraq war 1980-88. Iran had the upper hand and was offered reparations in 1982 but instead chose to wage a 6 year Holy War. Part of the stated goal was the destruction of Israel, a country that had been the closest thing to an ally in the region before Ayatollah Khomeini took control.

Iran never fully recovered from the 80s Holy War. A lot of lost opportunities.

But I'm sure there's some contrived rationalization for Iran's consistently terrible diplomacy and domestic mismanagement it's apologists can conjure up.





[edit on 25-12-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
But I'm sure there's some contrived rationalization for Iran's consistently terrible diplomacy and domestic mismanagement it's apologists can conjure up.

What kind of rationalized thought is there from an anonymous source. Oh wait, this is an anonymous official. Or is it that this source officially anonymous.

Let's not overlook the fact that if this source is indeed officially anonymous and s/he rides around with Obama, then there is suspicion that Israel officially spies on the U.S., at least anonymously.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by tristar

 

Amazingly here on ATS where the most critical minds come to discuss and debate far too many of them are willing to accept what really is just camp gossip and rumor put forward by an unscrupulous media devoid of any integrity and professionalism as fact when it suits their own political agenda.

People who say what they mean, and mean what they say aren’t people who are afraid to go on record. People who know what they are talking about because they are in a position to know what they are talking about are in fact authorized to say what they mean and mean what they say and do.

My Friend,

As we have interacted within many threads and as such a thread revolving around the Palestine issue which has more equations than the theory of relativity, we, or should is say, those who use their brain must come to terms that life is not a black and white solution.

We, perhaps, many, have seen a diverse amount or posts resulting in those who are in favor of pro israel and those who are in favor or pro non israel posts. The end result should more or less be, well in my opinion , a far more intellectual response to what is obviously a blatant aggressive move based on military might. I do acknowledge the absence of moderators when viewing this issue as political entity but that cannot or should allow any responses justified based on previous responses.

If and when such moves are incorporated into the fundamental aspect of negotiating peace withing a hostile region shall anyone who truly seeks peace as process of progress.

U.S.
tristar.

reply to post by mmiichael


Delightful some more revisionist history absent of many of the pertinent elements to put it into context so people might better understand the true nature of the political landscape.

Operation Ajax the well documented publicly admitted coup de tat carried out by the Central Intelligence Agency against Iran’s democratically elected President in the early 1950’s set up a quarter of a century of a despised Monarchy under the Shah that kept 98% of Iran living in abject squalor.

The Shah’s Monarchy (America fought a revolution in 1776 by the way to do away with monarchal rule) was propped up that entire time by the CIA and the SAVAK the Shah’s Secret Police that the CIA trained and commanded independent of the Shah.

All of this was run out of guess where? You get a star on your forehead if you said the U.S. Embassy.

These hostages were taken after the Student Movement in Iran ousted the Shah and send him into exile and a British and American led mercenary force tried to violently enthrone him once more running the operation out of where? You get another star on your forehead if you said the U.S. Embassy!

By the way Michael my older brother was attending the Mercersburg Academy a prestigious boarding prep school in Pennsylvania at that time with the Charge De Affairs son of the U.S. Embassy in Iran, they were actually roommates so I really do know what happened my friend revisionist history aside.

Yes a small and very wealthy group of jet setting Iranian aristocrats lived exceedingly well under the Shah’s regime and had tremendous personal freedom. However it came at the expense of everyone else in Iran living below poverty and in squalor.

Amazingly we get to more Zionist exceptionalism where we applaud the United States for attacking Iraq in a preemptive war but then attempt to make villains of Iran for defending themselves to the end against Iraq when Iraq attacked them first as being some kind of indication of Iranian hostility when it is us Americans who are still fighting in Iraq today?

Wow! Do they actually think before they have people put this nonsense out there?

Are the spin maestros this dumb or do they simply imagine their audiences to be.


[edit on 25/12/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

* I have chosen not to edit my previous post as to maintain the clarity of thought as to my intentions.

Originally posted by Nomad451
Besides, on top of everything that is going on politically with this standoff, I am more than sure some people, somewhere within the echelons of power are PUSHING this conflict to come about, and would be doing everything within their power to to do so.

Your speculation is based on a logical response or is it just a feeling. If and any response beyond this point would require a solid foundation.