Your Date With Destiny: Meeting the Real Jesus

reply to post by oliveoil


I have explained it...and you have not seen it.

The nature of Spirit does not act in carnal natures, actions, or behaviors. To understand, one must be familar with why humans act the ways they do, why they behave certain ways, why they react in certain ways, why each indiviaul acts and reacts in different ways then others around them. We all go through a sifting process...a sifting our of our carnal ways into spiritual ways.

I can only give so much....before I would do more harm then good.

A example of human behavior and reaction.....is fast to anger.

An example of spiritual nature would be self control, patients, mercy, and understanding for why the people are acting in such ways.

Another example of human behavior to solve a problem....is to kill another man.

An example of a spiritual nature is agai, self control, patients, mercy, and understanding of why the human is acting in the ways they act....and also then, forgiving when they do not know what they do.

An exmaple of a human characteristic....pride, jealousy, and greed.

What is another example of spiritual characteristics....not fostering pride, jealousy, and greed.

Gods not out to punish....Thee's purpose is to teach.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Many have been trying to explain that there is milk and food. The food comes through understanding of the milk. It is not another job to show all understandings to each other, for that again, like the bible, would defeat the purpose of each individual seeking that personal relation to learn from the holy spirit.

Only so much can be given between men....the rest is up to the individual themselves to seek understanding.

This is why all the mysteries of spiritual understandings will not ever be found in one book.

I would love to give a general run to all in this thread of 'discernment'. Let me make a statement and tell me according to your inner being if this statement resonates with your spirit. Dont use a book to discern it, use your spirit.

A statement on a way to understand where the Holy Spirit of God is....."Cut a tree, I am there.....Lift a rock, you will find me"

Does it make sense with your inner being that God can be found inside a tree....Does it make sense that God can be found under a rock??

If you are trying to say God is within you why not just say God is with in you? And of course God is within us all. However, I was under the impression this thread was about Jesus (God), And the only way anyone here would know anything about Jesus is if that person read the Bible.
Am I right or am I wrong?

i]reply to post by LeoVirgo


I understand what you are saying.And I agree. However, while we are here on earth (well, some of us) we are in a physical state.

Sure, but one can only speculate what a spiritual state can be.
The Bible not only teaches us about ourselves here in a material world, but also through reading it, It sheds much light on the spiritual aspects of our fate.


[edit on 19-12-2009 by oliveoil]

reply to post by oliveoil


Answer my question...then I will answer yours. So we dont over look what someone else has brought up with perfectly good reasons.

Obviously, I did not pose the question as....."Look within you, I am there" for a reason.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by LeoVirgo]

Originally posted by oliveoil
i]reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

I understand what you are saying.And I agree. However, while we are here on earth (well, some of us) we are in a physical state.

Sure, but one can only speculate what a spiritual state can be.
The Bible not only teaches us about ourselves here in a material world, but also through reading it, It sheds much light on the spiritual aspects of our fate.


[edit on 19-12-2009 by oliveoil]

Jesus showed us....even though we are in the flesh...we are not to stay in this form....and he even showed us...how to shed this form of ourselves. It is the way out of the cycle of flesh.

No, its not speculation. It is why God made the world with patterns, with cycles, with a sun, with a moon, with the wind, with fire, with water, birth and death, sorrow and happiness, hardship and ease, everything you can imagine that God made, has a place in the understanding. The spiritual understanding the Bible offers is the fact that transformation from flesh into a spiritual body is our purpose.

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Jesus showed us....even though we are in the flesh...we are not to stay in this form....and he even showed us...how to shed this form of ourselves. It is the way out of the cycle of flesh.
No, its not speculation.

And how would we ever know what Jesus showed us if it was not written in a book called the BIBLE???

Now what was your question?

(Slight delay in my travel plans)


Badmedia wrote
[But there is no way in the world I'm going to reject that which the father has given me over what the bible says. Now, if you can show me how those bible verses are misunderstood, and show me an understanding that is in line with what the father has taught me, then I am all ears. I'll give you an example of this - the tower of babel. At first when I read that, it seemed "bad". But after a bit of thought and such, I can understand why it's not bad at all, and the reason behind it.

You however do not offer any understanding. You quote those verses in a dogmatic way, and then fault me for not accepting it. When the entire reason I do not accept them in the first place is because they are in DIRECT conflict with what the father taught me. When I talk about Paul, they are not just things which "I do not like". They are examples of EXACTLY what the father taught me NOT to do.]|


Ok Bad ..you dont reject what the father tells you and yet you will reject what the father told those men who wrote the bible and they SAW AND HEARD IN PERSON the words from the FATHER (Both OT and NT writers)
You however were not there with them and yet you claim he told you the OPPOSITE of what he told them ?




Is that really what your saying ?

Originally posted by oliveoil
Okay, Lets stop right here and please explain to everyone What is this Knowledge of the Holy, people such as you have obtained? Is it knowledge of the scriptures and how to interpret them? If so, is it all scriptures or only a select few?

Knowledge of the holy is understanding. It is not a written language, or even a language can be spoken in itself. It is beyond written words. The father gives in terms of pure understanding. It's not like the way you learn on earth, it is like you suddenly understand and "See" things completely different.

But we as humans can not give each other this understanding directly. It would be nice if I could, but I can't. As such, we as humans are reduced to only being able to express that understanding. And when we express the understanding, we use words. And that is what the bible is. People who expressed the understanding they gained with words. It is an expression of the understanding, it is not the understanding itself.

I've expressed this with math earlier. You understand math correct? If so, then you can understand the difference between someone who actually understands math, and someone who just repeats the math equations. 1+1=2 is just an expression of the understanding of math. Now, anyone can go around and memorize 1+1=2 and say a true thing. But if they do not understand it, then it is actually 100% meaningless.

Knowledge of the holy is understanding, and so it is exactly the same thing when it comes to the bible. You can go around and you can repeat someone elses expression all you want. But if you don't understand it, then it is meaningless to you.

This is why the OT talks about those who keep the commandments are those with good understanding. Because they are not just walking around repeating the scripture, they know what it means.

Can the man who only repeats 1+1=2 use that in order to better his life? No. He can't give you change for a dollar and so forth. Unless they remembered every single possible number, which is to infinity. But the person who understands 1+1=2 and math, that person is able to apply it to their lives and use it.

The same is true of the understanding of the holy and understanding of the commandments.

So, the father does not give as this world does(expressions), the father gives in the way this world can not(pure understanding).

Now, if a man understands math, then that man knows 1+1=2 from that understanding. They also understand 4+4=8, and 5+5=10. They don't need to study those equations to know they are true, they don't need to memorize them or have someone tell them it is true. They know from their understanding.

And for me, the bible is the same thing. It is but an expression of the understanding. But not all of it is true.

How do you know which of the follow math equations are true?

1+1=2
4+2=6
4+1=9
53+2=55
34+23=4

And that is how I know what is true in the bible, and what isn't. It is for me no different than how you knew the above equations were true and false. Could I under any circumstance convince you that 34+23=4? No. And for that same reason, nobody can pluck those from the fathers hand.

Is it knowledge of the being God himself.

Yes, I know the father.

Is it knowledge of man.

knowledge of men would be history and such. No, I did not gain any knowledge of history or anything like that. I also can't tell you what tomorrows lottery numbers will be or things like that.

Is it knowledge of Jesus?

If you mean Jesus the idol, then no. If you mean in terms of when Jesus says "Why do you call me good, there is no good but the father", then I actually know Jesus very well. It is the father that I see and know in Jesus. I gained the understanding Jesus talks about. When I read his words, they ring as true as 1+1=2.

Is it knowledge of the end of the world?

No. I'm not a prophet, can't predict the future or things like that. However, the only "spoken" words I ever heard from the father were a question that asked me if I wanted it to end. I would have to say it was more about letting me know I was here by choice, rather than the literal end of the world. But it's a question I've pondered on quite a bit.

Is it knowledge of what is true and what is not according to the scriptures?

Nothing is according to the scripture. I like the scripture because it's an expression which helps people talk about these things easier between people. It's like having a common language between people. Rather than having to explain how you have this understanding of anything you ask at your finger tips, and how you gain in understanding at an incredible rate, it is easier and more understood if I just say "get the holy spirit".

Someone posted a few pages ago asking Why did God need to come in the flesh and die and rise again etc instead of just saying ok people of earth I forgive you ..


I think that is a good question and one I have wondered too .

This is what I came up with,*(yes its just an opinion)
And of course its based on what all I have read in the bible.
God didnt need to do all he did with Jesus but he did it because he wanted to show us his power (nothing is impossible with God and raising the dead is one of those things he wanted us to know that he could do ) .
In scripture everything that was done through the Israelites or to them was to show them that HE IS GOD (because scripture says we forget God in our hearts and in our thoughts) and we do as we carry on with our own lives.Most people see him as this old spiritual entity sitting up there just watching us down here (not intervening in our affairs ) and just waiting for us to destroy ourselves(which we are are doing that ).My hubby believes that God doesnt care what we are doing and just watches us like we are just an experiment or something.
And maybe that is what he does until things get out of hand .And maybe just maybe he wants a closer relationship than that with us,but as usual we dont even speak to God usually unless it is something serious happening and we get scared so we say GOD if your there please help me .

We all have friends and loved ones ,how do you think they would feel if we only called them when we want something .Eventually they would just not answer our calls anymore (RIGHT ?) unless of course it was a serious situation and then they may come to our aid or not .GOD however keeps answering and keeps aiding us etc and we just keep using him and using him .And ignoring his existance along the way .
Eventually he is gonna get tired of it all and I dont blame him,he isnt gonna force his LOVE on anyone,Instead he SHOWED HIS LOVE TO EVERYONE (by giving his son to the world and for the world to LEARN what real LOVE and APPRECIATION is ) And to warn us all that soon he will have had enough but last ditch effort to reach us (through Jesus Christ) and show us we can be forgiven and we can still be spared the coming END times CHASTENING that is about to come on all those who decided not to retain God anymore in their thoughts .
Pro 4:4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Sorry about the caps,(I know it irritates yall) its not yelling ..its pointing out the most important points I am trying to make .




[edit on 19-12-2009 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Ok Bad ..you dont reject what the father tells you and yet you will reject what the father told those men who wrote the bible and they SAW AND HEARD IN PERSON the words from the FATHER (Both OT and NT writers)
You however were not there with them and yet you claim he told you the OPPOSITE of what he told them ?

Is that really what your saying ?

I don't know that the father did tell those people who wrote the bible anything. Anyone can say such a thing, which is why I don't blame people for not believing me. I likely wouldn't believe me either.

The only thing I have to go off is what the father taught me.

Likewise, I in many cases think it's just a matter of how people are interpreting these things. With such a long period of time, some things are lost in meaning. I can really only comment on the common interpretation of it, and how people present it. I am always open to an alternative way of looking at it, in which it can become a true expression etc. There is an example earlier in this thread regarding the fear of god, and that the word means more like the "flow" of god. What they said actually makes a good bit of sense, so I can see how that would be a more true expression.

I am open to those things, but you will have to show me the understanding and that will have to match up with that which the father has given me. It can be done, and I am always open to it.

The problems with Paul and the church are pretty specific. It is the false authority they claim. The same manner in which the Pharisees sat in the seat of moses.

I was made to understand right off the bat that I am not in anyway to make myself into an authority. That there is only 1 true authority/teacher and that is the father. We are all equal in the eyes of the father, and if I make myself an authority over other men, then I am doing so in error.

So when I see Paul claiming thousands of teachers, positions of authority, and a structured government over men. Then to me, that is in error. That is the way of men, and that is what Jesus himself turned down when the devil tempted him. And then I can look at the history of the church and this system, and I can clearly and plainly see that it is NOT of god.

I do not see that which leads to the narrow path, I see that which is laced with death and destruction. And when I look at to why, I see that the people themselves have had the true understanding of Jesus blinded from them. This is prophecy fulfilled. A religion in the name of Christ, which is brought about by the false prophet who looked to be seen great in the eyes of men and appealed to the authorities of this world. I see that Jesus warns - that which comes after me has nothing in me. But for some reason, there is the "Paul and church" exemption. I guess what Jesus really meant was, that which comes after that which that comes after me has nothing in me - that is what you still look for.

I see a religion which came about in the way of sin. Jesus says those who believe will be persecuted. But what do we see in this new religion? We see that they are the ones who do the persecution.

And I know you will say, but that is the RCC and I didn't do that etc. And that is true, you are not to blame for what others have done. However, you are still holding on to that which came from them, their traditions and so on. It is still an extension of that, and is linked with the 2nd beast.

It's not a coincidence that when people try to debunk me with scripture they quote Paul rather than Jesus. I didn't ask for that either. I almost thought I was a christian based on the words of Jesus. And then Christians came along quoting Paul and stomped on that.

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Jesus showed us....even though we are in the flesh...we are not to stay in this form....and he even showed us...how to shed this form of ourselves. It is the way out of the cycle of flesh.
No, its not speculation.

And how would we ever know what Jesus showed us if it was not written in a book called the BIBLE???

Now what was your question?

I have never said that no knowledge can be found in the Bible. I have said, be cautious, for it is stories about mans time here on Earth. A person does not HAVE to know the story of Jesus to find the nature of God. It just so happens though that those that cling to the Bible as a holy word are blinded by the idea that God has carnal natures along with spiritual nature.

The danger of Jesus being tied to a book with the OT is the image of God becomes tainted through the carnal ways of men in the OT...therefor, also tainting the true nature of Jesus, as a required killing for salvation.

You talk as if I say to disregard the Bible...I do not nor have ever said such a thing. Also, I feel this way about any book that holds the history of mankind within it. Jesus is not the only person that has showed a spiritual nature in our past....he is not the only person another can learn from about walking righteous path.

But sense my past involves growing up with the mindset that I have to be saved, for I am unworthy....and sense others here are obviously discussing things pertaining to Jesus....my path here in this thread is 2 fold. If it was about another culture and religion and belief....I would refer to that as the same way I have here....seek out the natures....discern between actions of man and actions of God. If we dont discern, we will blindly accept that God acts in human ways, without perfection.

Seriously, you find amazing ways to avoid certain things. I will not repeat the question....but thanks for acting interested.

reply to post by Simplynoone


I believe the answer is indeed something you said....but also, something you said, the answer is not (in opinion as well).

You first mentioned....to show us his power. I believe this is not the correct reason and can elaborate why if anyone cares to hear. Power by itself leads to authority, rulership, a forceful nature.

Then you mentioned....to show us love. This, I beleive is the correct answer.

Now if we put both of your answers together to where the word 'power' does not stand alone.....we have the power of love....is the reason. Its not a power as in authority, rulership kind of power...it is a power within the love, that love conquers all things. Its a power we have little concept of and ability to bring forth to all things the way God does. God uses love, a power that can not be over came by anything else.



Hope all is well with you and yours Simplynoone!
LV

reply to post by badmedia


Bad I'm afraid I don't believe you. Why?because everything you say is a contradiction to what the Bible says. Perhaps somewhere down the line you may have had divine inspiration but most certainly not divine revelation.
Your knowledge of the Bible is limited and very unorthodox and just down right weird.
I'm sure you believe in what you are telling me to be true however you are missing out on everything God had intended us to have. Therefore I see no reason to continue this vicious circle. You have not proved anything to me whatsoever except your utter disrespect for the Bible.Any true Christian can see right though this garbage babel. If God has reveled himself to you with understanding of the scriptures, he has sure deceived the rest of us.

reply to post by oliveoil


Its not God that has deceived you and the rest....it is your fellow man as well as humans carnal nature that can not see past such limited views of God.

You cling to a material object, which is of the world of flesh, it blinds you so from seeing God right before you.

But all has reason, with sound need, so all in all, one is on the path they need to be. Its all just another marker of many that show where we are, how we have grown, what we are ready for, and what we are not.

All paths are valid one way or another. Some must travel the road that is not to discover the road that is.

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Jesus is not the only person that has showed a spiritual nature in our past....he is not the only person another can learn from about walking righteous path.

No, however he is the only one who claimed and was claimed to be God in the flesh.He is the only who by death gives us life. He is the light of this world, He is the way. There is no other. Who compares in righteousness?

Please feel free to name names.

reply to post by LeoVirgo

All paths are valid one way or another. Some must travel the road that is not to discover the road that is.

No, there are only two paths you can choose. That of which is good in the eyes of God and that of which is not.

You cling to a material object, which is of the world of flesh,

If you are referring to the Bible, I'm sorry but its the only thing I have.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by oliveoil]

reply to post by oliveoil


Just dont forget though, the path that is not has purpose here, and is meant to be here.

We learn from others that live selfishly why we dont want to be selfish. We learn from history that is full of harsh actions why we need to make a change in our current actions.

Separating it into 2 categories is like saying only one path has purpose for God. Do you not see the purpose in the ones that killed Jesus? Both paths are presented, a path of service to self, or the path of service to others.

You can see the path that is not in the actions of Hitler....killing all those people due to a belief in pride and chosen ones....but you cant see the path that is not in the actions of the ones that killed nations, in the belief of pride and the belief in being chosen ones.

You simply are not discerning...and using the book as a base for your truth. Can you not see that killing, period, is wrong? Even if your book says that God told them to kill?

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Can you not see that killing, period, is wrong? Even if your book says that God told them to kill?

God gives everyone chances to correct their mistakes.God gave the people of Palestine over 400 years to get it straight.They did not.It was they who caused their own death not God.



[edit on 19-12-2009 by oliveoil]

Badmedia wrote
[The problems with Paul and the church are pretty specific. It is the false authority they claim. The same manner in which the Pharisees sat in the seat of moses.

I was made to understand right off the bat that I am not in anyway to make myself into an authority. That there is only 1 true authority/teacher and that is the father. We are all equal in the eyes of the father, and if I make myself an authority over other men, then I am doing so in error.

So when I see Paul claiming thousands of teachers, positions of authority, and a structured government over men. Then to me, that is in error. That is the way of men, and that is what Jesus himself turned down when the devil tempted him.]


We have been all through this before a few times actually,but I will say it again.
Everything here is in an example of what is in the heavens .
There is Government (God,Jesus,the Holy Spirit,and the angels who do the will of the father etc) in heaven so therefor there is Government here on earth (for the same reasons) .
Government,law etc is all for a PURPOSE and you know that ,without it everyone would be outta control (not everyone is trying to walk the way that is right,in fact most do what they want regardless of any laws or careing about anyone else ) which is why they steal,kill,and just flat out disobey parents the law and even God.
Once the parents didnt do their job (of raising a child up in the way he should go by teaching him right from wrong) and they are grown men then doing whatever floats their boat etc then who is gonna stop them from breaking the law ? If not the law ? ..

And as far as the church peoples having authority ...only people with a sheeple mentality will follow the church clergy into that kind of obedience (they see the teachers preachers etc as being the MIDDLE MEN (instead of going directly to the Lord Jesus) and that is their MAIN mistake ..and of course MEN who lead get all puffed up and tell you some of the things your telling us ..
[ The father tells them things and they understand more than any of us simple people who read the bible ourselves so we need to listen to them because they GOT IT RIGHT and we misunderstand everything but they DO NOT ]
It wasnt PAUL or the Apostles who took those teachings to the LIMIT (like the Pope does etc) it was those POWER HUNGRY MEN who took it and RAN with it ....and turned it into what your seeing these days in the Church and in the Government and in our System of Law .


It is you who misunderstand Paul about the law .

1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Paul explains it clearly but if you dont like him or trust him then you are biased against him and wont even read in context what he says about it all so you will never see that Paul actually agrees with you.That many people ABUSE their POWER over others that was given to them BY GOD (as it is God who sets up Kings and preachers and teachers ) .It is men who think they are all that and then some who abuses that power bestowed on them.

Not to mention the BIBLE PROPHESIED that the Kings of Earth (presidents etc) and the clergy (apostate churches) would FALL AWAY from the truth and lead many astray away from SOUND DOCTRINE (just like they have done since the beginning of time till now even)..and so here we are in those days again that the BIBLE itself said would come .
And why ? Because they are scheming against the Lord Jesus Christ and those who know him and love him .Because men thinks this is his world and they think they can control others (but cant even control themselves) .

Deu 1:13 Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.

The Lord made those people rulers (just as he told the apostles to go and teach all men everywhere and make more apostles and teachers etc) and as you can see ALL THROUGHOUT the ages MAN took it too far and that power corrupted them even more .And of course because everyone is corrupt no matter who you put in charge it still would have come to this .(just like it did in the days of old) .

It is the fleshly condition of mankind that brings us to this same place every single time .Which is why the Lord says soon he is taking this place (the earth and all therein) back from man and satan *who is the ruler over those rulers ...and is gonna change everything .



The reason why Jesus didnt listen to satan when he offered him the kingdoms of this world is because Jesus already knew that the WHOLE KINGDOM already belonged to him anyway and satan sure as heck didnt have the authority to offer squat to anyone as he just THINKS he is in charge.What a joke that satan would even think Jesus would fall for his tactics .

Originally posted by oliveoil
Bad I'm afraid I don't believe you. Why?because everything you say is a contradiction to what the Bible says. Perhaps somewhere down the line you may have had divine inspiration but most certainly not divine revelation.
Your knowledge of the Bible is limited and very unorthodox and just down right weird.
I'm sure you believe in what you are telling me to be true however you are missing out on everything God had intended us to have. Therefore I see no reason to continue this vicious circle. You have not proved anything to me whatsoever except your utter disrespect for the Bible.Any true Christian can see right though this garbage babel. If God has reveled himself to you with understanding of the scriptures, he has sure deceived the rest of us.

Funny, you rip on me for "lack of knowledge" on the bible, and then go on to say something to the effect that everyone else is deceived.

And yet, that is also exactly what the bible says to expect.