Your Date With Destiny: Meeting the Real Jesus

Originally posted by Simplynoone
"and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me"


Those words Jesus TOLD THE DISCIPLES and they TOLD ALL OF US IN BOOKS >..............

But it didn't happen because it was written in the book. It was written in the book because it happens.

Badmedia the FATHER DREW YOU ...but he then SENT YOU TO THE WORD TO MEET HIS SON JESUS >....

So how can you say the word is not needed nor important ......
He sent YOU TO THAT WORD TO LEARN OF JESUS >..................

I stick up for the bible pretty regularly. I have never said it was not a good book or anything like that. I have said however, that when you elevate it as being the "word of god", then you do not have it in it's proper place.

Because you are not putting it in it's proper place doesn't mean it has no value. I have told you about building the house, and putting the foundation above the roof, and how that house will fall. That does not mean that the foundation or the roof were "bad" and had no value. It just means that if they are not put in their proper places, then they are unable to do their proper jobs.

I have said I don't think it's a coincidence I found the bible shortly after coming to understanding. But the father never ever mentioned Jesus like you do. I was shown NOT to focus on "Jesus", but to instead focus on what he did and said - because that was important. And it wasn't just "Jesus" this was in reference too, but ALL people.

I already knew what Jesus said before I read it. I didn't know Jesus said it, but I already understood what he said.

That I found the bible later was not for me, it was for you. I found it when I wanted to try and show people, and help them understand, not before then.

Jesus is said to try and bring people to God. But now you are telling me that God is trying to bring me to Jesus?

And as you well know JESUS DID NOT WRITE ANY OF THOSE WORDS you saw in scripture THE APOSTLES WROTE THEM DOWN so that in the year 2000 or whatever year it was YOU COULD READ THEM AND SEE THAT IT WAS TRUTH .......................

It doesn't matter to me who wrote them or when. They could have been written 20 years ago by some bum. Either way, I know the understanding of the father when I see it.

reply to post by badmedia

If it was Jesus had died for all the sins of the world, and people are forgiven by that death, then it wold apply to everyone, regardless of their belief. But if all keep the commandments, then by that process they are saved.

Could of, would of, Should of.... where in the Bible does it say by his commands we are saved? WOW! you are all mixed up.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Just for laughs, what do you think this verse means.?

[edit on 17-12-2009 by oliveoil]

reply to post by oliveoil



I have said many times "there is truth in the bible - but the bible is not truth"

Although I am obviously not studied as some here - - I have read it in its entirety twice.

I follow the interpretation of Light. There are many websites of "Light" - this is just one: beingoflight.brotherofyeshua.com...


[edit on 17-12-2009 by Annee]

reply to post by Annee


Just a quick question if you don't mind me asking. Does light/energy consist of matter in its simplest form?

Originally posted by oliveoil
Could of, would of, Should of.... where in the Bible does it say by his commands we are saved? WOW! you are all mixed up.

The father doesn't do things for no reason.

Where?

How about in the same chapter we were quoting earlier, John 14.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Or how about a verse that was quoted in the post you are replying too?

1 John 2

3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Just for laughs, what do you think this verse means.?

I already answered that. He gives his life in order to show people the proper understanding required to follow the commandment, in which if those people believed him, they would follow him and keep the commandments. When a person follows in his example, rather than their old way, they are by doing so repenting for their sins, and following the correct way.

reply to post by badmedia

Does this verse mean anything to you.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

or how about this one?

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

You know there is more to the Bible than the Gospels and Proverbs right?

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by badmedia

 

Does this verse mean anything to you.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

or how about this one?

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

You know there is more to the Bible than the Gospels and Proverbs right?

I already know Paul preaches the sacrifice.

Now, tell me why doesn't Jesus tell that to the rich man. The rich man believes Jesus is the son of god, so why does Jesus tell the rich man to walk the path, rather than what you say?

If what you say were true, then Jesus would have told him that. If it was true, then Jesus would have said that. But that isn't what happens. What happens is Jesus says go walk the path.

Where Jesus tells you it's easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle, than a rich man in heaven, You, Paul and the church tell me that same rich man is saved if only he believe what he believed then.




[edit on 12/17/2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Annee

 

Just a quick question if you don't mind me asking. Does light/energy consist of matter in its simplest form?

I guess that depends on who you ask - scientifically I mean. What I have to say about science is: science is based on known knowledge which can be repeated. There is so much we don't know.

I keep it simple. Consciousness is Energy thought - - thought creates physical.

My interpretation: Jesus was a light being (an energy consciousness) - - his teachings/message come from the Light - Spirituality - - to man - - to help man evolve spiritually.

His message is not from the physical - from man to the light. But from the light to man.

To interpret his teachings correctly - - perspective must come from being of the Light.

Man can not interpret from man's perspective.

reply to post by badmedia


Why would Jesus say this of himself?
Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

reply to post by oliveoil


I've answered that question mulitple times. I have also asked you the question about the rich man multiple times without an answer.

It was obviously clear that an example was needed to show men the correct "way". Thus Jesus paid the "ransom" that was needed with his life.

reply to post by badmedia


If you happen to read a little bit more you would have noticed

Matthew 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

reply to post by Annee

I don't believe this however I find it fascinating
The reason why I ask is because the Bible does say God is light.

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Just a little weird. I was thinking that if light is energy and energy is matter than God is matter. Not what I believe , Just thinking out loud.

Bible also says he is spirit indirectly though.

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by badmedia

 

If you happen to read a little bit more you would have noticed

Matthew 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Hello? The entire reason the holy spirit and the understanding of the father is needed in order to keep the commandments. The entire reason "men" can not do it alone.

Why do you think at one time Jesus says - why do you call me good? It is not him that is good, but the father within him. And thus why you need to find the father within you and the correct understanding.

You quote a verse saying for men this is impossible, but then all you talk is what men teach.

And you didn't even answer the question.



[edit on 12/17/2009 by badmedia]

Quote from Badmedia

[If it was Jesus had died for all the sins of the world, and people are forgiven by that death, then it wold apply to everyone, regardless of their belief. But if all keep the commandments, then by that process they are save.]


If the keeping of the commandments were all that saves a man then Jesus would not have had to come at all ..This is what everyone is missing .

NO ONE CAN KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS (have you ever lied,cheated or stole or coveted ,or committed idolatry?) Yes we all have .

If JUST the keeping of the commandments would have saved men then seriously Jesus comeing and dieing etc would not have been necessary at all .


The word says it is only through JESUS DEATH AND RESURRECTION and the fact that he would send the COMFORTER to LIVE IN US (He had to die first in order to send him to live in us) ...................that we WILL BE SAVED ??And you would first have to BELIEVE HIM (That he is who he says he says he is (the SON OF GOD who has the power to forgive sins and all power from GOD was given to him ) ....which is why he is the ONLY* MEDIATOR between God and man (not Buddah ..not Allah ..not Mohammed ..not the POpe ..not anyone but HIM) ........you have to believe someone is real and did exist and did do what he says he would do before you can EVEN ACCEPT WHAT HE HAS TO OFFER *the forgiveness of sins and the cleansing power of the HOLY SPIRIT >...........

WHY IS THAT >

Because the HOLY SPIRIT is the one who CONVICTS (By reading of the word of God and meditating on it and setting in your heart mind and soul )
It is him within you that gives you that STRENGTH to ENDURE ..that POWER TO ABSTAIN from doing those things that we are not supposed to do (Anger,hate,feeding of flesh fleshly desires etc etc ) ...and is the one who TEACHES YOU WHAT HIS WORD is SAYING ..and how to apply that to your own life ........and helps you MAKE THAT CHANGE from within you that needs to be changed so that you WILL EVENTUALLY be as Christ (in heart mind soul body and spirit) as much is humanly possible (at least you will eventually be led by the spirit to only do what you know for sure is the right thing to do in every situation) ........if you resist the devil he will flee from you *the resisting part is only through the power of the holy spirit can we do it since we are fleshly from our beginning ...and cant think spiritually as to how it will affect us .......
As you read the scriptures (which are also HOLY SPIRIT inspired)the Holy Spirit in you (that was sent when you ACCEPTED THE GIFT OF GOD (HIS SONS SACRIFICE FOR YOUR SINS) ..................and you then OPENED THAT DOOR and INVITED JESUS SPIRIT into your heart and soul..that opens that door FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT TO ENTER IN (Which he will not come unless you ALLOW HIM IN by dieing to SELF (you give your life to the Lord 100 percent ) and choose to LET HIM LEAD YOU ...(instead of you leading your own life doing your own will ) ...................................

Look mankind is incapable of living like Jesus ...without Jesus (as only he is HOLY and only he can show us how to be holy too ) ...............
Because we are MERE FLESH we think flesh .we think earthly ..physically (even our thoughts and minds and hearts are fleshly ) ...we need to be more spirit than flesh ..and we know not HOW on our own to think spiritually or be spiritual and feed that spirit WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST SPIRIT IN US to help us become like him and to be a part of that spiritual kingdom that is to come who JESUS CHRIST THE LORD is the KING the LORD and the RULER OF >..............

right now the ruler of this world is satan and mankind (in case you havent noticed) but soon ...that kingdom will not exist anymore ....
And a NEW KINGDOM will be set up ...which will not be FLESHLY or CARNAL .(This is not the NEW AGE UTOPIAN world that the New Agers and Dominionists push ) .................but a real one that WILL WORK because NOTHING THAT OFFENDS will be allowed in to this new coming kingdom .
And the new agers can wish all day long they can have that world with supposed aliens and supposed higher beings here on earth but they are only going to be fooled (is not gonna happen) ....................
In fact the one they are talking about is teh coming ANTICHRIST kingdom that is going to do his best to mimic the Kingdom that JESUS is going to set up ..........

Heck man has already tried many utopian like kingdoms in this world and guess what proves that MAN IS INCAPABLE of this ...........because of HIS SELFISHNESS ,his wickedness and his MANMADE ideas .....(fleshly carnal ways of thinking) ....

The flesh and carnal minded thinking is what we need SAVING FROM (for those of you who wonder what we need saving from besides the coming wrath of God ) ..it is because of this mindset that GOD IS SO ANGRY ABOUT (why cant yall get that part sunk in yet ?) ..........................
TO BE CARNAL MINDED IS DEATH ..........

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Hbr 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hbr 9:16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.




Here it is really simply put on what can we do ..

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life


HEAR HIS WORD (What word ? the words that he TOLD THE APOSTLES who wrote it all down so that 2000 years later we can HEAR IT TOO) .......
John says and BELIEVETH ON HIM THAT SENT HIM >>(Jesus SENT JOHN TO WRITE WHAT HE SAW AND HEARD IN LETTERS SO WE CAN HEAR HIM AND BELIEVE ON JESUS TOO) >..................
Whoever does these things (and of course if you believe on him you will certainly believe his word and his comandments and not only will you believe but you will DO his commandments and listen to his spirit when he convicts you and will ABSTAIN from EVIL ).....Then you will NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION >>>Why not ..Because if the Lord is working stuff out in you already you will be changed (a new creature) and you will not do things that you could be found guilty of doing and condemned for ...
and you will be PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (right now and in the world to come ) .......................

Originally posted by Simplynoone
If the keeping of the commandments were all that saves a man then Jesus would not have had to come at all ..This is what everyone is missing .

NO ONE CAN KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS (have you ever lied,cheated or stole or coveted ,or committed idolatry?) Yes we all have .

If JUST the keeping of the commandments would have saved men then seriously Jesus comeing and dieing etc would not have been necessary at all .

That isn't true. If it was true, then Jesus wouldn't have said he came not for the righteous, but to bring sinners to repentance.

Those who keep the commandments are those who have understanding.

Forgiveness for sins is given once the person fixes their mistake, or is truly sorry for what they did.

The reason the people were unable to keep the commandments is because they had accepted the written law and the Pharisees interpretation of it, which thus made them hypocrites. So as I keep saying, Jesus gives the understanding required for men to keep the commandments.

The commandments are not that hard to keep once you understand them properly. While it is true that we may from time to time fall in a ditch while trying to walk the path, over time you will learn how to walk straight.

I may stub my toe in the dark, but it rarely if ever happens in the light(unless I'm not paying attention). A man in the dark has little to no chance of keeping the commandments, unless their heart is just that good in nature. Jesus does not come for those kind of people, he comes to help those who sin.

All you are really saying is you can't walk the narrow path, and so it's the broader path that must be the way. Wish it as much as you want, but it's not the truth.

1 John 2

4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If a man is committing sin, and you show him the error of his ways, and how to keep the commandments, are you not saving that man?

The word says it is only through JESUS DEATH AND RESURRECTION and the fact that he would send the COMFORTER to LIVE IN US (He had to die first in order to send him to live in us) ...................that we WILL BE SAVED

That's not true. Proverbs 8 talks about those who find the father early will be given the understanding. Holy spirit is just a label thrown onto that understanding.

??And you would first have to BELIEVE HIM (That he is who he says he says he is (the SON OF GOD who has the power to forgive sins and all power from GOD was given to him )

This is not true. Jesus says in John 14 that a man can believe for the very works sake. That even if someone can't understand how the father is in him, they can still see by example that he shows the correct way to keep the commandments, and one can believe for that.

John 14

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

You can also see that it goes on to say that those who truly believe will do everything Jesus does - which you say is not possible.

....which is why he is the ONLY* MEDIATOR between God and man (not Buddah ..not Allah ..not Mohammed ..not the POpe ..not anyone but HIM)

This is also not true. In John 14:6, when he says that he is defining himself as things for a reason.

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The colon in that sentence means that it is defining or providing explantion of that which is before the colon, in the text after the colon. What Jesus is actually saying there is that only by the way, the truth and the life can one come by the father. Jesus "is" those things because he "lives" and is those things. Again, he is an example of someone who is doing that, the "word in the flesh".

Proof of this is found later in John 14, when Jesus talks about those who do not keep his sayings will instead hear the father.

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

If what you say were true, then John 14:24 would not be possible.

cont.

Edit: Actually, I'm not going to continue. The rest of your post was just dogma and just your opinion.



[edit on 12/17/2009 by badmedia]

[Edit: Actually, I'm not going to continue. The rest of your post was just dogma and just your opinion. ]

Sounds good to me ...

Now back to the OP .....Gramma we know we will know it is him because he knows us and we know him and we will hear his voice and will not follow another ..

Especially another Jesus (Like Mytria or the Imman or anyone else who will claim to be a messiah ) ...............

Scripture even says if they say here he is or there he is go not after them ..because it wont be HIM because he already told us it in his word that others will come claiming to be him or in place of him ..>..then he says when he comes YOU WILL KNOW IT IS HIM because we will hear his voice and because he will be calling you by name from his book (the book of LIFE) saying those blessed of my Father COME >....(Notice the KING is JESUS )
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

What a glorious day that will be ...


[edit on 17-12-2009 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Any excuse you can find to ignore the points huh?

What is the point ...when you feel this way about my posts ?
[The rest of your post was just dogma and just your opinion.]

I would really like to NOT ruin Grammas beautiful post by arguing with someone who just doesnt give a hoot what anyone else thinks ..now please can we move on .......

reply to post by Simplynoone


He answered your entire post point by point except for the last paragraph.

But to be honest anything that may cause you to stop your evangelical ranting could be a good thing, this thread has been very interesting to read but Im amazed BM even had the patience to sift through your posts. All the unnecessary capitilazation and excessive use of full stops make them very difficult to read, which is the opposite of the effect your trying to achieve I assume.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by gYvMessanger]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
What is the point ...when you feel this way about my posts ?
[The rest of your post was just dogma and just your opinion.]

I would really like to NOT ruin Grammas beautiful post by arguing with someone who just doesnt give a hoot what anyone else thinks ..now please can we move on .......

I addressed what you said at the start with quotes. What am I going to say in response to the rest? You're wrong? I don't agree? It was nothing I could really work with, or hasn't been addressed already.

You think 100% that the bible is the word of god. You honestly think that the only way someone can get the holy spirit is through the bible. What am I going to say to that? I show you over and over that Jesus never says anything of the sort, but you ignore it and say it means other things in order for it to fit in the interpretation you have accepted to be true. Everything you said following that was based on those beliefs, without the actual verses supporting such a thing being posted.

There is no point in to go into deeper discussions if there is no agreement on the basics.

I am not trying to ruin Grandma's thread. If you guys just wanna sit around saying "oh what a glorious day that will be", "praise, praise, praise the idol", "I'm a good Christian because I praise him, and watch as I say the most beautiful things and give great lip service" then I will happily be on my way because I have 0 interest in that.

I thought the thread was more serious in nature, and was more about what is the "real Jesus" and what is not, and how to know the difference and things of that nature. Sure things get sidetracked a bit from time to time, but I don't think it "ruins" a thread at all, they come up for reasons and are obviously things that need to be addressed IMO.

If Grandma wants me to stop posting, I will happily do so.