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Originally posted by gYvMessanger
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
I'm not sure on where King fits into the rankings or even quite what you mean by rankings.
Are you talking about spiritual levels in kabbalistic terms ? i.e Messiah < Prophet < Ruach HaKodesh (Divinely Inspired) etc ?
Originally posted by gYvMessanger
Of course I would not expect anyone to think God wasnt going to fulfill a promise Thee has made...but I am just not so quick to assume such a promise was made. Through my relation, I have found no emphasis placed on a needed 'savior'. I do see we need leaders...but one leader is not enough. We learn things from a many people.
That is true and perhaps it is just that I have come to mistrust the workings of "democracy" that I see the solution coming in the form of one strong leader who the world can unite under. It does not mean that there wont be many people teaching the message, but in my view it does mean that the message remains strong and true because it comes from one source alone.
You said people cant be trusted to do things on their own in this day and age...but yet, this is what our purpose is...to reach a point we can do things through our own will because we understand it to be a productive way, not because God told us it was the way without expecting us to have understanding of 'why' it is a 'way'. If you see humans as not being ready to do such things through their own will...then we again will see another marker showing many not being ready.
I see it more that we need a helping hand to push people in the right direction. Along the way people should certainly come to the understanding on their own, however the world we live in today does everything it can to steep us in materialism and ignorance, even the sciences we are allowed to know are restricted with schooling limited to those with the money to pay for it.
You bank alot of faith in a promise from God that got passed on through many men, and yet you view some of the OT differently then what others do when talking about Israel. I would like to say I dont worry much about what is going to happen with Israel...but that is hard when many have lost their lives and many more will loose their lives...all relating to a promise by God for a holy land.
No I am merely pointing out the roots of the Messianic Concept. The Messiah that Jesus claimed to be was the jewish one who had to do x things. I thought I had been clear in my position on the land of Israel. The current land state could not be the promised land even IF you accept a literal translation, and I am personally quite happy to read it as an understanding of "a spiritual nation of israel".
I think its the farthest thing from what is Holy when we are talking about a special Earthly land or a special people. I dont think Thee Most High has much to do with a special 12 tribes at all really. I dont think Thee Most High ever came with a message to just one people. To me, this is a huge red flag of someone misleading a mass of people. I dont see Thee Most High in much of the OT at all....I see a very carnal nature of a 'god image' that man would of thought to be god. I dont toss the entire OT out, I have studied it many times. It shows a great history of a people in that time and in that land. To me, what they believed in that time, makes a lot of sense when I look around the other cultures of that land and see the other common beliefs of that time. I see many cultures blending together in the OT.
I would suggest if you dont see the creators presence in the OT then you are looking with very blinkered eyes. Remember the creator encompasses everything. One thing that amazes me is people who believe that God is only Love or Light or Goodness, of course the Lord is all those things but also so very much more, to say oh this is God but this is not, I think that is a very dangerous path to start going down. Better to try to understand somethings purpose than to deny it because it does not suite your tastes.
But all just opinion....I do appreciate your thoughts, once again. I never would of assumed you took so much account of the OT by your other posts...very interesting though.
I do and I dont, like you I have my personal relationship with god, but I try to see the other viewpoints as well, though sometimes the cosmological viewpoint in my head drives me a bit loopy trying to make sense of it all.
For me I see the Jewish religion as a good idea that went horribly horribly wrong. I am very wary of Jewish tradition because I know its designed with a certain purpose (I like to think with good intent) and that part of that purpose is to indoctrinate into the theology for the good of the continued religion, rather than for the glory of the father. So what to trust and what not to trust ?!? A hard question, unfortunately the secrets the jews have kept are like pieces of a puzzle, you need to know a lot of things that probably arent quite true, to get to those pieces which are.
Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by bigshow
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. (Matthew 24:29