Originally posted by gYvMessanger
Of course I would not expect anyone to think God wasnt going to fulfill a promise Thee has made...but I am just not so quick to assume such a promise
was made. Through my relation, I have found no emphasis placed on a needed 'savior'. I do see we need leaders...but one leader is not enough. We
learn things from a many people.
That is true and perhaps it is just that I have come to mistrust the workings of "democracy" that I see the solution coming in the form of one
strong leader who the world can unite under. It does not mean that there wont be many people teaching the message, but in my view it does mean that
the message remains strong and true because it comes from one source alone.
You said people cant be trusted to do things on their own in this day and age...but yet, this is what our purpose is...to reach a point we can do
things through our own will because we understand it to be a productive way, not because God told us it was the way without expecting us to have
understanding of 'why' it is a 'way'. If you see humans as not being ready to do such things through their own will...then we again will see
another marker showing many not being ready.
I see it more that we need a helping hand to push people in the right direction. Along the way people should certainly come to the understanding on
their own, however the world we live in today does everything it can to steep us in materialism and ignorance, even the sciences we are allowed to
know are restricted with schooling limited to those with the money to pay for it.
You bank alot of faith in a promise from God that got passed on through many men, and yet you view some of the OT differently then what others do when
talking about Israel. I would like to say I dont worry much about what is going to happen with Israel...but that is hard when many have lost their
lives and many more will loose their lives...all relating to a promise by God for a holy land.
No I am merely pointing out the roots of the Messianic Concept. The Messiah that Jesus claimed to be was the jewish one who had to do x things. I
thought I had been clear in my position on the land of Israel. The current land state could not be the promised land even IF you accept a literal
translation, and I am personally quite happy to read it as an understanding of "a spiritual nation of israel".
I think its the farthest thing from what is Holy when we are talking about a special Earthly land or a special people. I dont think Thee Most High has
much to do with a special 12 tribes at all really. I dont think Thee Most High ever came with a message to just one people. To me, this is a huge red
flag of someone misleading a mass of people. I dont see Thee Most High in much of the OT at all....I see a very carnal nature of a 'god image' that
man would of thought to be god. I dont toss the entire OT out, I have studied it many times. It shows a great history of a people in that time and in
that land. To me, what they believed in that time, makes a lot of sense when I look around the other cultures of that land and see the other common
beliefs of that time. I see many cultures blending together in the OT.
I would suggest if you dont see the creators presence in the OT then you are looking with very blinkered eyes. Remember the creator encompasses
everything. One thing that amazes me is people who believe that God is only Love or Light or Goodness, of course the Lord is all those things but also
so very much more, to say oh this is God but this is not, I think that is a very dangerous path to start going down. Better to try to understand
somethings purpose than to deny it because it does not suite your tastes.
But all just opinion....I do appreciate your thoughts, once again. I never would of assumed you took so much account of the OT by your other
posts...very interesting though.
I do and I dont, like you I have my personal relationship with god, but I try to see the other viewpoints as well, though sometimes the cosmological
viewpoint in my head drives me a bit loopy trying to make sense of it all.
For me I see the Jewish religion as a good idea that went horribly horribly wrong. I am very wary of Jewish tradition because I know its designed with
a certain purpose (I like to think with good intent) and that part of that purpose is to indoctrinate into the theology for the good of the continued
religion, rather than for the glory of the father. So what to trust and what not to trust ?!? A hard question, unfortunately the secrets the jews have
kept are like pieces of a puzzle, you need to know a lot of things that probably arent quite true, to get to those pieces which are.
It would all be more easier if Jesus would of fulfilled what the Jews were wanting. But Jesus, instead, teaches of a different God. No matter what the
scriptures say to tie the two times and god images together, it doesnt work. The Yahweh God is a God of war...Jesus taught of a God that IS love. Of
course he was killed, for he taught against his own kind. The nature of God stood before them and they couldnt see it. This is getting ready to happen
again, and we will see another die.
People often cant accept a God that is only love....for their idea of being perfect means that this God will make everything perfect one day, through
a force. They are still bound by their carnal natures and cant see what 'perfect' 'holy' and 'divine' really mean. One cant understand such
things if they do not understand, love conquers all things...and it will even conquer the darkest of souls, through reminding them of this nature that
they were literally made from, which is love. It will bring every soul to their knees, they will not be able to raise their heads, they will buckle
under the realization that to deny this is to deny their very existence. God is not forceful, its not in Thee's nature. God is not jealous nor
prideful, its not a part of Thee's perfect nature. Why are we to become perfect if God was not this also? What does it mean to become perfect?
If the Jews are waiting on a messiah to come fulfill the promises of the OT God...then they only await the God of war to come again. Jesus came and
taught them that God did not have a name, that God was not a jealous God, that God was perfect love, and that we must come to be perfect through our
own will....not a forced perfection (which wouldnt be real anyway if it was forced).
I dont take things to just fit my taste at all. Do you think I like to know that I will reap what I sow, no matter how much I believe in God or Jesus,
I still have to reap what I sow. This is a lesson that is hard to swallow and face. To think I will learn my wrongs through experiencing the other
side of my cause is very chilling to me. To know I carry my own cross is not comforting to me in any way....but yet it makes sense. The fact that
these laws of nature make sense and have a purpose is enough for me to accept it for what it is, and see the brilliance in this law of this world and
why God made everything the way it is. I might not like it...but I understand it.
The OT mistranslated some very important mysteries of heaven and Gods works...which is the idea of an eye for an eye. They took this understanding and
tried to tie a physical practice to it, and they sowed bad seeds by doing so. An eye for an eye is a spiritual law, not an Earthly law. It is the base
of 'reaping what you sow'. They tried to use killing animals as an 'eye for an eye' and they will reap what they have sown. The eye for an eye is
true, in a spiritual sense, that what ever we do here, we will have to stand up for after we die. If we kill, we will have to experience being the
victim. We will experience all the feelings and thoughts we ever created in other people. To overcome this cycle of reaping what we sow, Jesus
advised, there are certain actions and ways to live to where you wont have to worry about such things, for example, turning the other cheek, loving
another and forgiving when they dont know what they are doing due to carnal ways and their carnal mind leading them. Love conquers our cycle of
reaping what we sow. If we only sow love, then what do we have to reap? There are scriptures that did not make the famous bible book that talk of how
upsetting the animal sacrifices were to Jesus. I dont need to see Jesus as a messiah to see that his works and actions made sense and were of a good
God is perfect, and we cant begin to imagine how Gods love conquers all things, even the dark souls that cant see. God has never had a chosen people
and never will lead men in war against another man. I know you are supportive of the Jewish religion even though you say alot of things went horribly
wrong....but this is the religion that has created the grounds for so many not knowing God and Thee's true nature.
As much as I see a false image of God through the OT....it was sooo meant to be this way. We have both natures before us, it is up to us to sift them
out and choose which master we are of.
In all best intentions, I appreciate the conversation and I hope you know I respect all paths, for God always find a way to bring each one of us home.
What ever path you are on, is right where you are to be in this point and time, and I the same. Im at a crossroads of sorts in my life right now, and
it is really hard sometimes. Im trying to conquer my attachments to this world and material things...and I know in time I will...but while it is
happening, it is very hard. There is always things to learn, always things we can make more perfect...always attachments we need to place up on our
cross that we carry, the loads can be heavy and testing....but I know I am never alone and there is always a comforter when I am in need of it.