The Islam Conspiracy

reply to post by SorensDespair


There is nothing moral about wearing a burqa, and making such a spectacle of yourself.

It is clear that you have no understanding of what is right or wrong.

You have no understanding modesty or humility.

What ever poisoned your mind into supporting a barbaric custom like wearing a burqa will never let you live in peace.

reply to post by whatukno


You have a twisted sense of humor.

You see this barbaric practice as humorous?

What else do you enjoy, tearing the wings off of butterflies?

reply to post by poet1b

His sons are rapists waiting for an opportunity.

I don't want people like this to have any access to my daughter.

What fear and ignorance must rule your existence. Paranoia must be a way of life for you.

That had to be one of the worst most ignorant posts I have ever had the displeasure of reading. You should be proud and equally ashamed at the level of bigotry your post there portrayed.

I assume your much too afraid to actually go to a Mosque somewhere and ask the people there questions? Please, though, if you do, do try and ask them without the bigotry you showed here.

See, on one hand your scared of packs of sex starved Muslim maniacs roving the country side searching for little girls to rape, and on the other hand you fear Sharia law which would mandate that their genitals be cut off for that exact offense.

reply to post by poet1b

You see this barbaric practice as humorous?

Oh a Burka is now barbaric? WOW!

Perhaps the "fear in their eyes" was because they noticed someone glaring at them with hate and loathing in his eyes. Just maybe.

reply to post by whatukno

Bylaws do not and never will trump actual laws.

And no organization should ever write a constitution that claims sovereignty over a community as these charters clearly do.

These organizations who write these types of charters should be legally dissolved, and the authors of such constitutions should be charged with treason.

I read nothing in either of these two charters that drmeola posted links to, that show any recognition or respect for the laws of the land in which these organizations preside.

The fact that these organizations claim an extension of their authority beyond their membership, and claim to have authority over the communities in which they reside is extremely dangerous and sets up inevitable confrontation with the community in which these organizations reside.

www.sabiqun.net...

Toward that end, we are focused in the development of an organized Islamic movement in America which is capable of producing individuals and institutions whose orientation and talents will, insha’Allah, be in total, complete, and uncompromised service of Allah (swt).

total, complete, and uncompromised service of Allah

What about their allegiance to the U.S. constitution?

When their religious leaders decide that it is Allah's will that they disobey the laws of the land, they will ignore our laws and follow what their religious leaders tell them to do, such as harass women who do not dress to their standards.

reply to post by whatukno

What fear and ignorance must rule your existence. Paranoia must be a way of life for you.

Fear and ignorance is the way of life people practice barbaric customs such as wearing a burqa, or forcing their wives and daughters to wear a burqa.

I live in the U.S., where I have rights and freedoms.

People from all over the world want to come and live in the nation which my ancestors helped create for the freedom and the lifestyle we live.

You support a religion whose main purpose is to take away the freedoms of others because they think that is the will of their god.

You support people whose goal is to destroy U.S. culture.

I am simply responding to a growing threat against my way of life.

Fear and ignorance is clearly your way of life.


[edit on 9-12-2009 by poet1b]

reply to post by whatukno


To be fair, most of the Muslims in Dearborn, MI have assimilated to America pretty much. It's seems it's one of the sucess stories. I don't think you can translate what we have here in SE Michigan as typical for other nations. Everyone here for the most part tries to get along.


Compared to some places in Europe and elsewhere it's night and day. Some Muslim communities don't even attempt to assimilate into the local culture that they are now a part of. That's where I could see there being major issues.

reply to post by whatukno


The really sad thing is that these women in burqas avoid looking at anyone.

Like a child who has been severely abused, they avoid eye contact.

and you think this is fine and dandy?

I have no feelings of hate or loathing towards these women.

Originally posted by poet1b
There is nothing moral about wearing a burqa, and making such a spectacle of yourself.

So, is your argument centered around universal morality (which is a very debatable point) or is it centered around conformity (which again, is debatable)? I just want to know where your focus is in order to form mine appropriately.

It is clear that you have no understanding of what is right or wrong.

Right and wrong are subjective terms defined through cultural relativity. What might be right for you, may not be right for some. It takes different strokes to rule the world, yes it does, it takes different strokes to rule the WOOOORLD!

You have no understanding modesty or humility.

Then define it for me. And don't try that whole "if you don't know, I won't tell you" cop-out. It only shows a lack of understanding on your part.

What ever poisoned your mind into supporting a barbaric custom like wearing a burqa will never let you live in peace.

The "poisoning" that you speak of must refer to education, deliberation and understanding. I'm surprisingly at peace. You seem to be the one at odds with something, judging by the hostility in your posts.

reply to post by poet1b


And exactly how is that different from this...

www.jpusa.org...

Jesus People USA is a Christian community in Chicago. We operate both as an intentional Christian community and as a worshipping church (not all members of our congregation live as full-time members of the community). We began as an independent ministry in 1972, and in 1989 we joined the Chicago-based Evangelical Covenant Church. We number about 500 people who live together at a single address on Chicago's North Side. We hold our goods and property in a common fund, looking to the model of Christian community depicted in New Testament (Acts 2:44-47, 4:32-35). Living communally and pooling our resources in this way has enabled us to minister to one another and those outside the community in ways that might not have been otherwise possible. This, of course, does not mean we believe God wants everybody to live in this way, or blesses us in some special way because we do. We have been privileged to function as a resource to the church, a haven for people in need, a learning experience for many whose journey has taken them in our doors and out to serve elsewhere.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by whatukno

 

The really sad thing is that these women in burqas avoid looking at anyone.

Like a child who has been severely abused, they avoid eye contact.

and you think this is fine and dandy?

I have no feelings of hate or loathing towards these women.

As for this little bit of "wisdom"...
Have you actually thought about what's happening when you're glaring at someone in a burqa? Would you try to engage with someone who's looking at you like you have two heads?

And, again, you liken these women to children, which reinforces the idea that you see them not as thinking individuals, but as someone beneath you and your superior ways. You're not doing much to help your case. You claim to not have hate or loathing, but you do seem to have a contempt for their culture, and a disrespect for them as individuals.

reply to post by pavil

To be fair, most of the Muslims in Dearborn, MI have assimilated to America pretty much. It's seems it's one of the sucess stories. I don't think you can translate what we have here in SE Michigan as typical for other nations. Everyone here for the most part tries to get along.

I wonder, could that be due to understanding and acceptance because of the wide diversity of cultures that reside in SE Michigan, or is it due to other factors?

How can the success enjoyed by those in SE Michigan be duplicated around the world in other communities where it seems that some Muslims refuse to conform to the nation in which they choose to reside?

The scariest part of this is that people associate freedom with conformity. One can only be free if they act as other people in the main culture do. I hope others can see the hypocrisy in this.

reply to post by pavil


That is good to hear. It seems that relatively small groups work very hard to impose their will on the majority, and create these isolated communities that they can bend to their will.

I could see that during religious holidays a few times a year, people dress in traditional customs to support their religion. When that is the case, they often find considerable community support for their activities.

When people see a constant, in your face, I do not respect your culture and will not adapt your ways attitude, it creates resentment within any community.


The people who insist on putting the veils between their family and society are the ones creating the hostilities. They are not the victims, they are the abusers.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by pavil

 

To be fair, most of the Muslims in Dearborn, MI have assimilated to America pretty much. It's seems it's one of the sucess stories. I don't think you can translate what we have here in SE Michigan as typical for other nations. Everyone here for the most part tries to get along.

I wonder, could that be due to understanding and acceptance because of the wide diversity of cultures that reside in SE Michigan, or is it due to other factors?

How can the success enjoyed by those in SE Michigan be duplicated around the world in other communities where it seems that some Muslims refuse to conform to the nation in which they choose to reside?

Don't know......personally I think luck has some to play with it as well. It's not like we are a bastion of understanding here, we have our racists and bigots on all sides. It just seems that everyone tries to let everyone be and tolerate each other. It's more about respecting the other side than only one side being accomodating. I think in other countries that doesn't happen as much. To me it comes down to the immigrants, whoever they might be, integrating with the society. You can have your unique culture, but you must become part of the culture you live in too.

reply to post by whatukno


No that come back I like, ok let’s approach this one yes by all rites a bylaw is just that a set of goals or ideas set forth by such organizations. I live in a restricted community but it does not oversee or go over and above the laws of the land. I also use to belong to what at one time was the largest Union in the nation. The teamsters. But again, other than being accused of some strong arm tactics they have never tried to open there own court system or school were they would teach there own agendas instead of the regular criteria of education. Oh and I have been riding motorcycles since I was 14, and use to belong to a club as you call it.

The taxes I am referring to is all tax exemptions issue to all in the Unites States. And if as there bylaws state, should than not the same consideration for tax-exemption be given to kkk, Wicca or satanic worship, after all they worship a god and have there own believes and even have there own bible.
More info on tax exemptions can be found on by thread about the topic.

I feel no terror at all I have plenty of guns and martial arts training plus I was in the armed forces, so no fear of any man or women.
Fear that our rites and constitution is being thrown out the window, yes.

And your last paragraph, I am a native American Indian, and yes I am well aware of the take over of my land by white man.
And one day I vow my people will have there land back. But that is for another thread.

The Tampa community is far enough away from me that I don’t need to be directly concerned with them. But if courts start opening up in this country as it has in the UK, look out.

reply to post by SorensDespair

The scariest part of this is that people associate freedom with conformity. One can only be free if they act as other people in the main culture do. I hope others can see the hypocrisy in this.

I think it has to do with societal norms. People in general are quite panicky about change in their environment. If I were to go to another country, etiquette would dictate that I assimilate to the larger general culture.

Now while I might feel that I should retain parts of my own culture it's quite apparent that I should adapt to the place I live in.

If my belief were say that I should be nude at all times, obviously society might have an issue with that, after all, no one want's to see Mr. Bo Jangles. Shouldn't I conform to the society in that way and keep my nudist practice within the confines of my home and or place of worship?

Now obviously a burqa or hijab is much more socially acceptable than a nudist. Personally I don't see the problem with Muslim womens dress. After all in the US we are free to practice our religion in the way we see fit.

But perhaps in some instances conformity might be dictated by etiquette. It's a give and take thing I think. Helps everyone to feel more comfortable with each other.

Originally posted by poet1b
When people see a constant, in your face, I do not respect your culture and will not adapt your ways attitude, it creates resentment within any community.


The people who insist on putting the veils between their family and society are the ones creating the hostilities. They are not the victims, they are the abusers.

Ever hear of projection?


As for assimilation, sure, there are some aspects of assimilation that are necessary, but only because the majority often won't accept things that are foreign to them. They're like a vast population of children who refuse to try anything but fish-sticks and tater-tots for dinner. They don't know what this new taste is, so they don't like it!

reply to post by poet1b


Ah and theres ya problem mate!
You should be pissed off at ANYONE forcing ANYTHING on someone who doesnt want it, but instead you are assuming no woman likes to wear head scarves and that stuff, and blaming an entire religion for it. You have to understand some people like their culture even while living in another! Me, Im drinking akevitt all month long and getting my friends into it!!

Does America have a dress code? Is wearing a green mo-hawk any more an 'offense' to western culture in your eyes? Or is it just pick and choose? Would you prefer a totalitarian regime where dressing freely is banned?!

(note I agreed with you about FORCING!)

reply to post by whatukno

COMMIES! Thats my kinda people!

reply to post by whatukno


And no where in your post does it say, we shall form our own court and enforce our own laws. That is the difference. Look at the courts they have built in the UK and get over yourself already