Hemorrhagic flu in US, says Polk County Coroner, deaths under-reported

Originally posted by RobinB022
The CDC will reclassify deaths as "pneumonia" who actually started off with swine flu so they can downplay it and prevent a vaccine panic. They've done this since day one and they're still doing it.

I wonder if that's what they did to my cousin, when they kept giving her a different diagnosis on different visits to the doctor/ER. She knew something was really wrong and that she was sort of getting a runaround, until a doctor finally admitted she probably had H1N1 in retrospect. At the time, I just saw it as incompetence or lack of information about the new flu. I still think that may have had something to do with it, since it was at the very beginning of the outbreak.

[edit on 22-11-2009 by invernal]

reply to post by invernal


Thanks Invernal , I was looking around for info to see if it was possible but didn't find any. What you said makes sense. Like I said, It was a stretch.

reply to post by RobinB022


It is a personal choice, one that needs to be made using accurate information. There is a great deal of horribly bad information floating around, some due to people not understanding the subject at hand and some because people are intentionally spreading lies for whatever reason.

Telling people this is pneumonic plague is a prime example of not understanding what pneumonic plague is or how it works. If that information causes someone not to protect themselves because they believe it's the plague and not a virus then whoever convinced them of that shares responsibility in any death or injury that might occur.

This isn't just another conspiracy subject to go wild with, this is a life or death issue. People should be extremely sure they know what they're talking about before telling other people what to do.

I'm not pushing anyone to get vaccinated, I'm telling them it's too late anyway. Once this wave passes, if they survive and miss getting infected, they will have a chance to reconsider before the next wave hits.

To be fair, the person deserving of charges in this is Jane Burgermeister, I suppose those who follow the lie are just innocent pawns. That doesn't excuse people not doing their own research though. I don't want a debate on it, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it just like you are yours.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


You're welcome, and here's the link to the "Science Dispels Whackadoodlery: RNA vs DNA; Flu vs Plague" thread started by "Cascadians" on Rhizalabs' FluTracker forum:

Why Ebola can't mix with flu

Here's the concluding paragraph, minus the step-by-step explanation:

Obviously, if you took two influenzas or two Ebolas and combined them, you would have much higher odds of two parts matching. This is why we worry about recombination between different forms of influenza, but not between influenza and other viruses. The differences between even categorically similar viruses make the odds of any successful combination extremely low. When the majority of the proteins encoded by two versions of a virus are the same and the genes for those proteins are found in the same order, it is then pretty easy for mutations to be passed on during co-infection with both versions. So, we get new versions of the flu every year, but we never see Ebola-flu."

reply to post by ecoparity


I myself have more to read if I am to understand your position on the vaccine.

Aside from that, you seem to have an extremely thorough understanding of the virus itself, and for the sharing of that information and dispelling of the myth of "there is no H1N1, it's just another flu", I am grateful.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


Here is one of the best explanations I've seen why swine flu and Ebola will not combine: Viral genetics 101

As you can see the theory has come up a few times...

All viruses can go hemorrhagic. The 1918 swine flu did, exact same symptoms as this one, actually and smallpox did also.

Flu pandemics happen every so often, going as far back as we've tracked them. This one has been long overdue in the average 20 year cycle they usually come in.

I've seen no indications in this pandemic of manipulation. Every aspect has been seen before in prior events including those before bio warfare at this level began. (There were crude instances in history but we're not talking about "crude" interventions in this case).

There are scientists all over the World looking at this virus, not all of them work for governments or big pharma. Some are independent researchers, students, teachers - any of them could recognize manipulation or enhancement of the virus. I'm not saying manipulation is impossible, just unnecessary considering it was going to happen sooner or later anyway. It would also be detected and discussed, IMO.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by ecoparity
...
I've seen no indications in this pandemic of manipulation. Every aspect has been seen before in prior events including those before bio warfare at this level began. (There were crude instances in history but we're not talking about "crude" interventions in this case).

There are scientists all over the World looking at this virus, not all of them work for governments or big pharma. ...

Eh, this is where I disagree again. But I really should tear myself away from this thread, soon. ...

I, and others on here, see a lot of indications of manipulation. Plus, there were all those mysterious deaths of biologists in the past few years. Whole threads were devoted to it on here, with some albeit circumstantial evidence sometimes, but facts that are really hard *not* to connect the dots on. And I vaguely recall some scientists around the world raising eyebrows at this and voicing suspicions. Though some of them or other vocal individuals get their careers viciously attacked for doing so (like a certain I-believe-now-ex-Health-Minister in Indonesia)...

reply to post by ecoparity


Thanks Eco , That's the OP from the link Invernal sent me. It seems that due to the fact of the two only sharing the protein "NP" or nucleoprotein It's Highly unlikely that this would happen.

"Obviously, if you took two influenzas or two Ebolas and combined them, you would have much higher odds of two parts matching. This is why we worry about recombination between different forms of influenza, but not between influenza and other viruses. The differences between even categorically similar viruses make the odds of any successful combination extremely low. When the majority of the proteins encoded by two versions of a virus are the same and the genes for those proteins are found in the same order, it is then pretty easy for mutations to be passed on during co-infection with both versions. So, we get new versions of the flu every year, but we never see Ebola-flu."

Dissimulo on TB2K

[edit on 23-11-2009 by EyesWideShut]

reply to post by apacheman


I do not see anywhere in the article that a 'hemmoragic flu' is attacking people. This is what he said:

"In the autopsy, what we're seeing is very heavy, wet hemorrhagic lungs, lungs with a lot of blood in them," said Dr. Gregory Schmunk

That is typical of a death from complications of flu and/or other conditions, but is not some kind of new exotic flu.

So let's try and have the conversation as a group that I had with a virologist / epidemiologist PHD from one of the best medical research universities in the country, (if not the World) back when I too thought this virus was man-made...

Dr X:
Ok eco, look, here is the genetic structure of the virus. No DNA, just RNA and it constantly tries to reassemble itself into something better.

Because it has RNA and no DNA it's missing the component that lets it make high quality copies of itself. More often than not it will mutate in very small to very large ways in order to better survive.

This could be survival against the hosts immune system. The ability to infect a new species because it doesn't have enough of this one or that one to remain active... the ability to overcome some new defense in the host body, say like Tamiflu.

We can predict most of the shifts (small mutations involving cell connections) and mutations based on previous study, previous outbreaks, etc.

Now, if I were an evil person working for people who want to depopulate the Earth, I can let nature take it's course -or- I can start making changes more favorable to my "plan", right?

Like this one, (changes diagram). If I make this small change a large number of those infected will never have children. Or this one, now the virus can kill 70 percent of those it infects instead of a measly 1 or 4 percent. Or this one (another change) and mostly people of a specific genetic heritage will be infected, at least until the virus shifts again.

(And the virus WILL shift again, it does not want to be limited in that way, it wants to infect all the hosts it can even if it has to hop to another species entirely)..

Now, if I'm this evil person with an evil plan this virus, as bad as it is, is not the ideal candidate to use. It's already gone around the World once and mostly just given people a mild case of the flu and possible immunity. Considering how much worse it could work and how fast either someone very silly is behind this "plan" or there is no "plan" at all...

-end story-

Those of you who are so inclined, try to contact a virologist, micro biologists, teacher - anyone who can give you some straight up answers. Be polite and professors usually make the best interview candidates.

Go and find out for yourselves. These people love to talk about what they do and they love to clear up ignorance.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by EyesWideShut


We were posting at the same time, sorry. Nice to see someone else had read it as well though.

reply to post by ecoparity


No worries , Both of you came up with the info like it was common knowledge...lol , when that happens it really makes me feel out of the loop.

reply to post by ecoparity


It was too late from the start...The vaccine wasn't even availabe in time to quell the spread of the disease. It's because of the general dis-trust of a failed Government that people won't get the vaccine.

Would you go to a doctor that just accidentally removed the wrong kidney from the patient prior to your surgery?
Everything is a conspiracy now because of the Governments genreal incompetance.

My family and I have been fighting something off the past 3 days. I have no idea what to believe anymore, but as they say, seeing is believing.

I'm in MT, and last wednesday, our little town had a low flying plane circling above us. My husband noticed it first and we watched it just circle around for about a good 45 minutes and then it was gone. Friday, my daughter woke up runny nose, eyes burning, and said she could not breathe. Panic really rose up in me. I began protocol with her immediately, and I swear, by evening.... zero symptoms. My husband however has been fighting a dry cough that came on out of nowhere Friday night, and I keep feeling like I can't breathe deep enough, and developed a dry cough.

I always used to laugh about chemtrails, now I have to say that this is the 2nd time we've been sick from them, except this time, I saw a plane circling above us, not just over us and gone.

This is getting unreal.

Checked in with some neighbors and they too feel under the weather. Coincidence? I think not.

I'm very worried because I have some kin in Iowa and quite a few in North Missouri region.

Originally posted by Kailassa
Ginger is a great anti-inflammatory. Besides, they go beautifully with brandy. Prednisolone is another way to treat it, under medical supervision.
Alcohol, once one is infected with swine flu, avian flu or sars, is an absolute no-no. It worsens inflammation.

Wouldn't taking ibuprofen generate the same anti inflammatory affect?

Originally posted by Asherah

Originally posted by Kailassa
Ginger is a great anti-inflammatory. Besides, they go beautifully with brandy. Prednisolone is another way to treat it, under medical supervision.
Alcohol, once one is infected with swine flu, avian flu or sars, is an absolute no-no. It worsens inflammation.

Wouldn't taking ibuprofen generate the same anti inflammatory affect?

I don't see the point in taking a drug when a common food serves the same purpose.
Ginger has no bad side effects. As well as being an anti-inflammatory it is safe to use long term, it is better than any anti-nausea drug, it gives one an appetite, it's readily available, cheap and it tastes good.

Here's some interesting data comparing the 1918 pandemic "waves" against the current pandemic:

This chart diagrams the three waves of the 1918 pandemic:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c2c18dc2d263.gif[/atsimg]


The first wave came in May-June of 1918. The second and deadliest wave came in the 5th and 6th months - (October - November Peak)

reply to post by Asherah


The first night you feel like you might be coming down ill or one of your family does you should use the OTC zinc nasal swabs and cough drops. Hydrogen Peroxide in the ears is also a good idea.

When the symptoms first start to become apparent there's a good chance the virus is still in the upper respiratory tract and has just triggered an immune response.

You can weaken or even kill it if you catch it fast enough before it begins multiplying in the body.

If you or your loved one still feels sick the next day call your Dr and begin Tamiflu ASAP. It might be a better idea to ask for the alternative antiviral which comes as a powder you inhale.

There are reports of Tamiflu resistant strains but the other medication (name escapes me right now, starts with a "Z") has no resistant cases yet that I'm aware of.

The key with this virus is to weaken it before it can get a foothold in the lungs. It moves very quickly into more serious symptoms after the first day or even within the first 12 hours in some cases.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by ecoparity]

I offer all my unconditional love and best wishes for a long and healthy life.

Believe what you will about the virus/vaccine (and a few million other divisive issues these days) and follow your own heart.

Wrong (in disagreement with you) does not mean evil.