Woman accused of hate crime against Muslim

So let me ask this question then, if an Atheist grabs a bible from a christian throws it to the ground and stomps on it.

Is that a hate crime?

Would the atheist be charged just like this woman is being charged?

reply to post by AshleyD


With all due respect to a mod

Black and white are the two most predominant skin colors in our society. So it kind of goes without saying that those would be #1 and #2 on the list.

The figures for 2007, from fbi.gov show some #'s that i find distributing.

That further back up the notion of a hypocritical, politically correct, screw-THE MAN type society.

• 69.3 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-black bias.
  
• 18.3 percent were victims of an anti-white bias.
  
• 4.7 percent were victims of an anti-Asian/Pacific Islander bias.
  
• 1.5 percent were victims of an anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native bias.
  
• 6.1 percent were victims of a bias against a group of individuals in which more than one race was represented (anti-multiple races, group).
  

source

Honestly - i didnt look further to find a 2008 statistic...if someone wants to, they could dig that up and we could compare #'s to see if there's a trend or not.

But lets look at this.

69.3% of alllllllllll hate crimes in America were against black Americans.

We all know the #'s (i generalize...bare with me)

There are more "white" people than "black people" in this country.

according to the 2000 Census data

211,460,626 in the USA are white.

but as far as black goes ... 34,658,190



Now...i realize that this post is about a Muslim woman. But im drawing a comparison between the two dominant ethnicity in this country to prove a point.

There is a bias in our legal system that says white people can't be the victims of hate crimes, because, like the Rev Al Sharpton (or was it Jesse Jackson?) says....black people CANT BE RACIST





Also - keep in mind - these are convictions. Thats because, just like family court has a bias against the father, criminal court has a bias against "hate crimes" against white people, because to say you committed a hate crime against "the man" is perceived, in politically correct modern terms, to be racist...especially if the judge is white.
If he's black - he'd simply be called an Uncle Tom (Just like Bill Cosby)






[edit on 19-11-2009 by Snarf]

reply to post by Snarf

Black and white are the two most predominant skin colors in our society. So it kind of goes without saying that those would be #1 and #2 on the list.

Oh, I hear you. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The reason I brought up the stats was to show those who said whites or Christians weren't classified as hate crime victims or their cases are ignored. The point in showing their stats was to help dispel that argument. If they were being ignored, their stats wouldn't be so high.

On the other hand, I did try to be honest and show how it does seem harder for whites to prove the crime was hate based.

Also, I really don't think the stats in terms victim proportion comes into play with social proportion. For instance, Jews make up approximately 2% of the U.S. population but are over 6 times more likely to be the victim of a hate crime over, say Muslims or Christians or other religious members of society.

So it's not fully accurate to gauge the stats on proportions.

[edit on 11/19/2009 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD

So it's not fully accurate to gauge the stats on proportions.

well i guess this is where we'll both have to agree to disagree


According to that 2000 census data, there are 6 times more white people in the USA than black.

Yet there are 3 times more convicted hate crimes against black people than against white people.

One *could* make the argument that this is because there are 6 times more white people....but i think to make that argument, you must also be saying that white people are naturally more racist, and blacks are not.

Its an endless debate...but IMO, the #'s do not lie. There is a natural bias in our court system that allows minorities to "get back at the man" for racial indifference from 50 years ago.

reply to post by Snarf


I hear what you're saying- really I do. Like the recent case where a white couple was abducted, the man had his penis cut off, the woman had a breast cut off, both were raped repeatedly, the woman was forced to swallow bleach, the man was set on fire and shot while the woman was hacked apart but left alive and placed into a trash can left to suffocate. How is that not a hate crime? I don't know. If it was reversed, it would have been a media frenzy and labeled a hate crime.

So I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I just don't want to get sucked into the racial divide and say whites or Christians NEVER get to prosecute their tormentors as a hate crime because that's not true. They do. I even admit above it seems the onus is on whites to either prove their victimization was hate based or to prove their actions were not hate based. It seems assumptions fly. But when it is proven, it is prosecuted as such.

That's all I'm saying. Yes, there are problems with it and it sucks.

Anyways, getting back to the incident with the woman. As much as I despise hate crime legislation, it does exist and the woman violated the law by ripping the religious clothing off the victim. It is absurd that she could possibly receive a sentence more severe than a rapist but that is our justice system for you. However, the facts remain it was hate-based and that is really what is taken into consideration. Like I mentioned above, someone who ripped a cross out of a Christian woman's arms was also possibly being brought up on hate crimes charges.

It's dumb but so is our system.

so this muslim anchor baby called the cops because her scarf got tugged!
sounds like a grade school stunt "you pulled my scarf so I'm tellling"!!!
poor 'lil thing/trouble maker!
buncha poo

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by centurion1211

 

Do I know the difference between ethnicities and cultures?
Actually, I do know the difference, but thanks. So, you are unfamiliar with the different cultures in the U.S.? Uh, say you haven't traveled very much?

Please don't patronize me any further. It really bugs me. Thanks.

Won't have to "patronize" you if you start posting factual information. If you actually know the difference then post it correctly. BTW, you were actually the patronizing one in your original reply. Go back and read what you wrote again if you don't know the difference.

And you're quite welcome.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You can bring culture but you cannot it apply it to the laws or the standards of America. This is the United States of America not Little China or Little Cuba. All people, no matter what race, color or creed must abide by the laws set forth in this country.

A law for Hate Crimes was needed well into the 80's but with the formation of political correctness it has grown into something as outdated as Affirmative Action.

The problem is that minorities DO stick to themselves and do not try to integrate, embrace and progress our nation as a whole. Maybe ESOL should teach people what united means.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I think this hatred against muslims is increasing quite a bit lately, I sure hope it cools off. Because you know what they say. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, hatred leads to suffering.

Can you at least admit that the actions of radical (not all) muslims have a lot to do with the reactions other muslims are getting? Like the wounded and dead soldiers at Ft. Hood, how exactly is someone supposed to know if the muslim next to them is about to scream allahu akbar? Maybe is non-radical muslims started doing a better job of policing their own, people could settle back down to ignoring the fact that some muslims dress and actions make them seem potentially menacing.

Nothing good comes out of it.

Agreed

Just lately my mother who is muslim has been harrased in work by a chrstian calling my mother an antichrist, she's going to hell etc.

And on a bus while going shopping another woman starting telling my mother how much she hates her and muslims, and she followed her and kept harrasing her saying nasty things, my mother just said everyone has the right to their opinion and tried ignoring her.

Sorry to hear about your mom's experiences. Maybe she ( and you) can take a little comfort in the fact that the women at work and on the bus didn't shoot her or blow her up.

If history has taught us anything, it's that hatred causes suffering to everyone including yourself. It's like a virus and it spreads around everyone you love.

Stay positive. Because love is also like a virus, but it can spread and help cause happiness and joy to everyone around you.

Peace


[edit on 19-11-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Again, if that "peace" concept can be spread around the muslim community to the point where no one has to fear the radical (not all) muslims, I believe this will return to being a non-issue.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by centurion1211
The difference is that under multi-culturalism no one tries to assimilate and become an American like the immigrants of the past all wanted very badly to do.

I would guess that you are white caucasian
The U.S. is both multi-ethnicity and multi-cultural.

but if you are a white caucasian you wouldn't know this unless you live with a family of another ethnicity, especially if from asia.

Asians bring their own culture with them, even if they were born here.
Trust me on that
They may have slightly assimilated, but it doesn't mean they don't have the culture anymore.
This may change after a few generations, then it will no longer be multi-culturalism, but for now it is.

That's why you often see chinese people hanging with chinese people, indians with indians, arabs with arabs and so on and so forth.

And my point is that this is a rather recent development fostered by the politically correct concept of "diversity". Again, in the past, immigrants tried very hard to learn the language and customs here so that they could assimilate. Now you see lots of foreign flags and bumper stickers saying "I heart - name a country", which begs the question, then why are you here? Because in the past immigrants often hated where they came from enough to risk everything to get away?

[edit on 11/19/2009 by centurion1211]

Community service at a mosque is a silly idea.

Then if the woman goes bananas,and hurts someone. You would all be here saying, who is the idiot that gave a hater community service in a mosque?

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Community service at a mosque is a silly idea.

Then if the woman goes bananas,and hurts someone. You would all be here saying, who is the idiot that gave a hater community service in a mosque?

Again the double standard.

So, it's somehow OK if the average American must live in fear of what radical (not all) muslims might do, but muslims must be protected from that same fear by not allowing this woman to receive this kind of alternative sentencing?

Originally posted by centurion1211
Now you see lots of foreign flags and bumper stickers saying "I heart - name a country", which begs the question, then why are you here?

That's just ridiculous
You know if America had no immigrants you wouldn't even have many diverse cuisines to choose from, U.S. would just be a meat eating/fast food country and instead of 30% obeisity you would have 90%.

It doesn't beg the question why are you here at all.
People can go wherever their feet brings them too.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Because in the past immigrants often hated where they came from enough to risk everything to get away?

Sounds like you just want everyone to love america and consider it the best

latin america, asia and eastern europe are people who bring their culture with them wherever they go.

There's nothing wrong with that, just because you feel like you should only stay the place where you love doesn't mean everyone should think this way too.

And with the way you think, on the flipside other people can say how come redneck americans think that they aren't immigrants, why did they so easily forget that they are originally european.

let me guess you are ultra ultra conservative republican correct?

Originally posted by esdad71
You can bring culture but you cannot it apply it to the laws or the standards of America. This is the United States of America not Little China or Little Cuba. All people, no matter what race, color or creed must abide by the laws set forth in this country.

When did I say anything that differs that?
You seem to think that different cultures MUST mean not abiding by the law here.

that is completely untrue

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by centurion1211
Now you see lots of foreign flags and bumper stickers saying "I heart - name a country", which begs the question, then why are you here?

That's just ridiculous
You know if America had no immigrants you wouldn't even have many diverse cuisines to choose from, U.S. would just be a meat eating/fast food country and instead of 30% obeisity you would have 90%.

Petty and elitist to suggest that we must sacrifice our laws and culture just so you can have "diverse places to eat".

It doesn't beg the question why are you here at all.
People can go wherever their feet brings them too.

As long as they obey the laws in getting here. But if they love their original country so much, why come here at all?

Sounds like you just want everyone to love america and consider it the best

Again, or why come here to live?

latin america, asia and eastern europe are people who bring their culture with them wherever they go.

There's nothing wrong with that, just because you feel like you should only stay the place where you love doesn't mean everyone should think this way too.

And with the way you think, on the flipside other people can say how come redneck americans think that they aren't immigrants, why did they so easily forget that they are originally european.

Please pay attention. No one forgets that they or their ancestor were also once immigrants. The issue is what they do after they get here - assimilate or pine for their homeland.

let me guess you are ultra ultra conservative republican correct?

Let me guess, you love to name call and put labels on people that you can't deal with on an intellectual basis.

This is how they keep us confused and under control. They stir the hatred for as long as they can until it blows up in their face. Then, when people act the way they've been conditioned, there are publicly punished severely.

It leaves us feeling angry and helpless.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
This is how they keep us confused and under control. They stir the hatred for as long as they can until it blows up in their face. Then, when people act the way they've been conditioned, there are publicly punished severely.

It leaves us feeling angry and helpless.

Yep the ol' "cry victim" and then laugh as the kiffar gets carted away because their own law is inferior to Islamic law.
Watch out, don't make any cartoons depicting Mohammed or there will be riots.

How about if non-muslims start going into mosques for services and see how well we are welcomed. How about if non-muslims start yelling loud prayers at an airport and see how long it is before we are arrested. How about if non-muslims take liquor into taxi cabs in Minneopolis airport taxis and not get booted out of the cab. How about a couple of gay guys get into a cab in NYC and not get booted out because homosexuality is illegal in Islam. Where are the threads about those instances? Where is the outrage?
Oh wait, we are Americans and we don't get outraged... we know how to live in peace.

reply to post by Snarf


This is not true as I've posted instances of blacks being charged with hate crimes (yes they were calling names, etc.)

reply to post by esdad71

The problem is that minorities DO stick to themselves and do not try to integrate, embrace and progress our nation as a whole. Maybe ESOL should teach people what united means

You see that's the problem..integration. Integrate into what? Main society? Put my saggy jeans away and get some dockers?

Why would i want to be like you when i want to be and live among those like me? This "integration" thing is not black and white and it's not easy. It's not a matter of being American, but it's about who i am.

And if you don't like me for being me, then maybe integrating isn't so good. Who cares if minorities rolls in clicks like we do, white folks do it to, like the Europeans that immigrated over (and continue to do so), then we're only talking skin color...but that's what the conversation is about..ain't it?

Originally posted by EMPIRE
reply to post by Snarf

 

This is not true as I've posted instances of blacks being charged with hate crimes (yes they were calling names, etc.)

and there are instances of fathers winning in family court.

There are exceptions to every rule

I never said it NEVER HAPPENS - i said there is a bias against it in a court of law.

Big, gigantic, fundamental difference.

So your statement of "this is not true" is infact....not true