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The REAL Swine Flu Conspiracy

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posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 04:27 AM
On the subject of vaccines and how people are being "convinced" to get them, here's an interesting extract from the The Lancet in regards to the claims made by the pro-vaccination cohorts for vaccinating the elderly against flu:

Mortality benefits of influenza vaccination in elderly people: an ongoing controversy
Original Text
Dr Lone Simonsen PhD a c Corresponding AuthorEmail Address, Robert J Taylor PhD d, Cecile Viboud PhD b, Mark A Miller MD b, Lisa A Jackson MD e

Influenza vaccination policy in most high-income countries attempts to reduce the mortality burden of influenza by targeting people aged at least 65 years for vaccination. However, the effectiveness of this strategy is under debate. Although placebo-controlled randomised trials show influenza vaccine is effective in younger adults, few trials have included elderly people, and especially those aged at least 70 years, the age-group that accounts for three-quarters of all influenza-related deaths. Recent excess mortality studies were unable to confirm a decline in influenza-related mortality since 1980, even as vaccination coverage increased from 15% to 65%. Paradoxically, whereas those studies attribute about 5% of all winter deaths to influenza, many cohort studies report a 50% reduction in the total risk of death in winter—a benefit ten times greater than the estimated influenza mortality burden. New studies, however, have shown substantial unadjusted selection bias in previous cohort studies. We propose an analytical framework for detecting such residual bias. We conclude that frailty selection bias and use of non-specific endpoints such as all-cause mortality have led cohort studies to greatly exaggerate vaccine benefits. The remaining evidence base is currently insufficient to indicate the magnitude of the mortality benefit, if any, that elderly people derive from the vaccination programme.


Edit to add: bolding and underlining added by me.

I found the above article as a result of a search I did after reading about this study in a Ceske Noviny (Czech News) report. Without translating the whole thing I can say that it basically reports that many elderly people are throwing away their money by getting annual flu vaccinations.

If people would like a translation of the whole article I can do it a bit later when I feel up to it. Still getting over my stomach bug. (Not flu.)

In light of the whole "swine flu" conspiracy concept, I find it interesting that we now have qualified medical people speaking out against blanket vaccinations of some sections of the population, on the basis that the studies in support of such actions are biased and exaggerated -- and it's also telling that such a respected journal as The Lancet has published their findings.

Looks like some lines are being drawn.


[edit on 19/11/09 by JustMike]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 04:40 AM
this particular vaccination is bad by design in my opinion. i saw few reports already that they're using special needles, at least in europe, for those vaccines - based on nanotechnology. that implies chipping the entire sheeple hord. on the other hand, as already mentioned, they wouldn't kill nor chip those that they want to survive as slaves obeying their masters.

what's more scary is the whole disinfo. my comment about the true changes in H1N1 in ukraine, causing it to be much more deadly, behind a post on one of polish portals, saying that according to WHO no mutation occured, was silently removed. also, they're terribly underreporting numbers of cases, both general and deaths, while claiming different numbers all the time. and mind, those different numbers come from government officials from health ministry of poland! it's at least as bad as in ukraine when it comes to causing confusion, and that implies it's all planned disinformation strategy to avoid panic AT ALL COSTS.

new H1N1 strain has small genetic change causing it to be far more deadly, attacking lungs, causing pneumonia and cytokine storm, with results like burned lungs filled with blood and so on. it's well known fact, confirmed by scientific research. and what health minister says? that those people didn't die from H1N1, but from pneumonia and overall fail of internal organs! sure, to some degree it's true. but those are ALL CAUSED BY H1N1.

in the meantime, since a week already, they're spraying the skies with chemtrails, and first cases of death were reported in cities being sprayed. the scale of this disinformation psyop by governments is unprecended in my opinion, and 9/11 looks like a child's play compared to this.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 04:57 AM
this is in norwegian.... which i don't know, so i'm not able to translate it, but it looks like each vaccination is being individually registered and IT REQUIRES ENTERING SERIAL NUMBER OF THE SYRINGE.

if not because of nano chips hidden in needles, then what for?

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:43 AM
Meet the man in the middle, Dr Henry Niman - (by ecoparity, ATS)

The anti vaccine crowd likes to attack Dr Niman, ignoring the fact that his research would lead to fewer vaccines / more accurate ones and try to tie him to the pharma companies.

Niman is a researcher who has developed techniques and discoveries that are used by pharma companies. Blaming him for their missteps is like blaming the man who patented power steering when Ford makes SUVs that catch on fire spontaneously.

From his own "founder page" on his company website:

In 1982, he developed the flu monoclonal antibody, which is widely used throughout the pharmaceutical, biotech, and research industries in epitope tagging techniques. He also produced a broad panel of monoclonal antibodies against synthetic peptides of oncogenes and growth factors. These monoclonal antibodies were distributed worldwide to researchers by the National Cancer Institute. The antibodies identified novel related proteins which correlated with clinical parameters.

This technology was used to form ProgenX, a cancer diagnostic company that became Ligand Pharmaceuticals. Dr Niman subsequently identified protein expression patterns at the University of Pittsburgh. More recently, he became interested in infectious diseases while at Harvard Medical School. He then founded Recombinomics and discovered how viruses rapidly evolve. These latest findings are the subject of recent patent filings.

He's basically spent the last few years predicting the evolution of flu viruses and which ones would create epidemics / pandemics and appearing on every Internet radio show in the process no matter what subject they specialize in. He's doing this to spread the word and record proof that his novel theory on viral evolution is correct and allows him to make these predictions with amazing accuracy.

He's controversial to the mainstream medical industry which is unfortunate. They would have been able to create vaccines which would have worked perfectly for a number of years and possibly even prevented the current H1N1 pandemic if they had listened to him.

He's been attacked by some in the mainstream medical industry and been attacked by the anti-vaccine groups with vicious rumors and lies for his alleged "pro-vaccine agenda". He seems to be caught in between some in an industry that won't listen to a true innovator and the anti vaccine agenda which claims he is some kind of big pharma insider who profits heavily from vaccines.

For some reason the men and women who develop truly progressive concepts are always attacked and ridiculed in their own time. I believe history will end up on his side and future generations will benefit from his inventions.

I haven't looked into the accusations about his past because they have no bearing on his invention nor his ability to make accurate predictions because of it. I'm not an investor nor am I in a position to be affected financially by him. As a potential host for the viruses he studies the only impact Dr Niman's work might have on me would be more accurate and fewer vaccines.

Unfortunately, we are all in a position to suffer from the pharma industries refusal to use his invention. Maybe they don't want to replace yearly vaccines with a single, five or ten year vaccine or head off pandemics before they begin? It wouldn't be the first time mankind was denied something truly progressive in favor of profits and greed.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 06:29 AM
so damn true...
for NWO... we are slaves at most... and usually just insects.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 07:00 AM
Henry Niman gets owned by Len Horrowitz.

He cherry picks the arguments because he can't answer them.
BTW go to the actual thread and check the post directly after Len Horowitz. Page 16. Noticed how it was locked and then reopened for Nimans lame rebuttal.

I'd be happy to discuss some of his comments if you like.

Oh and Eco, I'm still waiting for the empirical study to show that the vaccine actually works. Which you whole conspiracy depends on.
The Vaccine doesn't work. Prove it!

A real scientist does not waste his time on blogs and forums. He works in the Lab and publishes papers.

Niman scoffs at the conspirators, but at the same time appears regularly on Rense! what's up with that?

Double Think, is when to contradictory ideas are set in ones mind to cloud judgment. I honestly don't know where you stand on some things, it's like there's two people in there.

Yes indeed let's have a closer look at Mr Niman.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by squiz]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 07:12 AM
Oh yeah what a track record for the Mighty Niman. How about this little gem. Just look up WSN/33 and good ol Henry.

What was the result, ooh an evil plan to reduce the mouse population.
How embarrassing for him.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 07:48 AM
Here's another on of Dr Dooms oh I mean Dr Nimans fantastic calls.

Wow what a track record!

Run for the Hills it's Bird Flu pandemic level 6!!!! The WHO are lying!!!

Exactly what has he predicted by the way? I can keep yelling the world is going to end, eventually I'd be right. We've been hearing about the "big one" for a long time now. Big deal. Hell even I new this thing was going to mutate. It's just being helped along by a mass vaccination campaign.

Henry will tell us the vaccine is the only thing that will save us from the new dreaded Spanish flu. What a crock! Prove it!

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 07:52 AM
reply to post by squiz

actually, he gained some respect from me thanks to that post. i love how people are so blind that they can't see the truth, nor even consider it as an option, and focus on attacking someone that honestly tries to help people.

what if he's right?
what if baxter story, moshe story and H1N1 being manmade, are all false flags to make people NOT want the vaccine? there is NOT enough vaccine for everyone. NWO wants only small amount of obeying people (those that will take the vaccine) to survive. why should they make the vaccine a killer when virus will do it's job?

i'm not saying bioweapon scenario isn't possible, i actually think chemtrails are very important right now, i saw them myself here where i live, and i think they could create H1N1 from recovered samples from 1918 - but does it change anything? virus is a killer, that's proven via recent documented changes in it's genetic sequence - it's becoming more and more like 1918 strain. what would they need the vaccine for, other than to save some sheeples as their slaves? of course, some vaccines, especially in europe, are very dangerous - due to cutting down production costs thanks to adjuvants and so on - and i personally won't take it. but that doesn't mean Niman is wrong.

you all seem to think that because of the stance of people like him, or eco, or me, it's obvious that we are on the NWO side, and there's nothing further from the truth. i am for example just f... scared when i see what's going on and what the implications of it are. did you think about those? what if virus is deadly, vaccine is not, baxter story is a hoax, moshe story is a hoax? i'll tell you what:
- NWO sits in their castles, grinning like hell, that they will have their small group of required slaves, while all the others will die because they got caught in NWO presenting itself as a bunch of evildoers (which they are)
- they will save tons of money not having to produce so much vaccines, because those won't be needed
- all big figures in conspiracy world, if will survive, will be COMPLETELY COMPROMISED

people were trying to demask NWO for years. now NWO demasks itself, via release of a mild H1N1 strain in mexico, then doing fearmongering and raising pandemic level to 6 via WHO. do you really think they didn't know what the result will be? that people will say WTF, and conspiracy theorists will say 'PANDEMIC INCOMING!'? then you're naive. don't you see the irony of the situation? they're showing their true face and still gaining profits from it, as it fits their plans perfectly? can't you see that if Niman is right, and if eco is right, and if i am right, the situation is hundred times more serious than what others claim? now NWO released more deadly H1N1, based on (or perhaps exactly same as) 1918 H1N1, and can wait for the death toll to rise. all they need to do is to keep their psyop active to disinform people. you know how insane the situation is? in poland minister of health got taken off air from TV when she started talking about vaccines being evil. people praised her for her courage. but now, when we have first cases of death, and all confirmed to have H1N1, all died from pneumonia, with black lungs filled with blood, she openly claims they died from 'other diseases than H1N1'! and people aren't even noticing it. numbers are underreported, every day they're saying something else - same healthcare officials from government - causing at least same amount of confusion as in ukraine.

it's the biggest, the most blatant psyop in human history. they are hiding the truth from us. the truth being not some insane bioweapon in vaccine - no. they don't need it. all they need to do is to wait, while keeping their disinfo network active. to prevent panic. to keep us not aware of the fact, that genocide has already started.

if we're right... humanity is already dead.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 07:53 AM
and please... treat this subject seriously. everyone makes mistakes. didn't you made any in your life? it's easy to laugh at someone... but if he's right... you won't be laughing... sooner than you think.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 07:57 AM
Len Horowitz makes so many mistakes in his logic I wouldn't even know where to begin. It's obvious he has no education in virology or the genetics of virii.

He makes a lot of noise that probably impresses the people who ride the "vaccines are evil express" while in reality he's making mistake after mistake.

At least Niman gave him the time and tried to answer his questions but it reaches a point where it is a waste of time. Some people are locked into a frame of mind and have no interest in reality.

I've already explained my point of view on Niman, I don't agree with and / or don't care about the issues you've raised. Every time I look into one I just find that someone is picking a fight who has no clue about the subject.

Len Horrowitz is a dentist with no education in any of the areas he tries to represent himself as an expert in and worse, he thinks he knows more than the people who do have formal educations and proven experience in them.

I take a balanced view of vaccines. I think they serve a purpose for some things and are not needed nor a good idea for others. They are neither pure good nor pure evil, kind of like everything else in the World.

They are a tool that can be used correctly or misused. The answer is not to throw away the tool, the answer is to make intelligent, informed decisions on how and when to use that tool.

You come across as being part of the no vaccines agenda and I'm quickly learning there is no reasoning with the likes of you. You will accept any tripe, regardless of accuracy or quality of the source so long as it supports that agenda.

This is why you ignore the fact that the Baxter incident is not what it has been exploited to be and that there is absolutely no credible evidence for a bio weapon virus or bio weapon vaccine.

You're presenting arguments from people who profit from the anti vaccine agenda and the sale of alternate medicines who then accuse people like Dr Niman of being biased because his patents are used by pharma companies.

I'm discovering that you don't see the hypocrisy in that.

This "thing" some of the people in your anti vaccine club have about attacking anyone who doesn't completely agree with you like rabid dogs is not attractive. Extremism is not something I have any interest in engaging with. There's no point in it, you are not open to any evidence that does not confirm your predetermined point of view.

Dr Niman has been able to make very accurate predictions about this virus and the pandemic. His information checks out with other virologists and researchers in the field. I don't really care that he is associated with pharma companies, thats what virologists do is study pathogens and develop vaccines or research tools for them. We have several in the family and none of them are big pharma pimps, quite far from it, actually.

You really should try to take a more balanced view and be as demanding of perfection of all your sources as you try to be against people like Dr Niman. Any further issues you have with Dr Niman I suggest you go and raise directly with him.

Attacking him does not remove the lies which sit behind just about every element of the swine flu conspiracy which you seem to favor.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 08:06 AM
reply to post by squiz

Where are you getting "Bird Flu" from? Dr Niman said that the SWINE Flu pandemic, the one we are currently in, should have been called L6 earlier, an opinion that was widely shared at that time and turned out to be correct.

Had the WHO acted quicker the production of the vaccines could have begun sooner and not only would we not have as bad a shortage now but places like Ukraine might have been able to prepare.

Are you really stopping to read stuff before you throw it out there? There is nothing at all about "bird flu" in that post, it's an Alex Jones forum post which is not a primary source and there's nothing there.


[edit on 19-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 08:07 AM
Sure, but you have to admit. Eco is not being honest when he presents us with Niman's supposed sparkling track record. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Can't see the truth! puuulleeze. It's his buisness.

I don't really care about Moshe, aerosol spaying. I'm the type of conspiracy theory that uses science and facts. That sort of stuff I just keep in my back pocket so to speak.

I've looked into this issue well before this pig thing. Corporate white collar crime is the name of the game. I'm interested in REAL conspiracies.

I'm a bit of a science geek.
So I expect some scientific rebuttal.

I'd like to talk about some of Niman's claims.

Namely the origins of swine flu.
Also his claim that there are no 1918 sequences in the current strain.
That would be a good start.

I keep asking for proof that vaccines are actually effective, I can't find any? any help would be appreciated. In fact I've found the exact opposite.

If this is true Henry is no better than the other drug pushers.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 08:11 AM
reply to post by squiz

I've listened to his appearances for years and he predicted this pandemic by monitoring the recombination of flu in the wild, just as his patent claims he can.

The pharma companies could have added the H1N1 component to seasonal flu vaccines 2 years ago and people would still be alive who are dead now.

What's the point in running down someone you know nothing about? Is it because he's bashed on by some of your anti vaccine heroes?

I haven't seen Dr Niman push the vaccine once. If anything he's encouraging people to practice isolation and have Tamiflu ready to begin treatment should you get infected.

You don't even know what his position is and you're bashing the guy. Damn, man I don't know what the point is in even discussing this with you based on that.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 08:11 AM
reply to post by squiz

'real conspiracies' - you mean the most incredible story possible, even if not having sense at all and not needed, because simpler solutions serve much better the NWO agenda?

yes. you can't see the truth.
further discussion on this subject with you i consider pointless.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 08:14 AM

Originally posted by ecoparity
Where are you getting "Bird Flu" from? Dr Niman said that the SWINE Flu pandemic, the one we are currently in, should have been called L6 earlier, an opinion that was widely shared at that time and turned out to be correct.

Haven't known him very long have you? I'm guessing since only this flu business began.

On 6 April, writing of Thai Binh Haiphong and Quang Ninh H5N1 Clusters, Niman concluded "The flu pandemic of 2005 has clearly begun." - This helped prompt a thread on the Agonist (the Nimanist?), starting in July with posters wondering when the world's media would take notice of H5N1 in humans; the concensus was during August; one forecast the US would be knee-deep in bodies by mid-October. (See separate thread in this forum, on Chicken Little Flu)

This is a pretty damming bit of research right here.

Oh, and do you actually read links? So far my experience with you shows you have some difficulty with that.

Anyway goodnight from Down Under. I've a lot more to come.
Hopefully you can provide some scientific basis for your theory.
Otherwise it's just illusion a guess, there's no foundation.
Vaccines don't work and neither does your theory.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 08:20 AM
So because a dentist claims the swine flu has 1918 flu sequences in it all the virologists who say otherwise are lying?

I wasted the time to read what Horrowitz said on that and he doesn't understand the subject. Even with what little knowledge I have I can see he's making bad assumptions based on lack of information.

Since you're a "science geek" here's what I recommend.

Go to GISAID and register for an account. Then download the 1918 data and the 2009 data. Grab one of the free folding programs and go see for yourself.

Even easier, just google the genetic composition of each virus and go see how "identical" they are.

Every component of the current swine flu can be traced to have been in circulation in pigs, birds and people prior to 2009. Early on in this pandemic it was not known that 2 of the components had been in circulation and that led to some people making a bad assumption about a lab origin.

That's why the two papers written along those lines were withdrawn. Contact the authors yourself and ask them.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 08:24 AM
reply to post by squiz

scientific basis...
wanna scientific basis for the theory i've mentioned? how about this:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

fits perfectly in my opinion.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 08:27 AM
reply to post by squiz

Yeah Niman's been predicting an H5N1 pandemic for quite a while. It hasn't come to pass yet but there have been more and more human outbreaks. I think we got lucky that the swine flu won that race, actually.

Be careful about demanding 100 percent accuracy out of sources, I know most of yours will fail that test.

Don't bother with the promised lists and the anti vaccine crap. Take it to your own thread. If you can't explain why the topic of this thread, my alternate theory is wrong and convince me that a hundred thousand scientists will all go along with the big conspiracy I have zero interest.

Any further off topic posts will be alerted on. I've tried to be polite and answer your questions but you've proven it to be a waste of time. You have this pattern of making an accusation and then when I go check the link there's nothing there about what you're claiming.

Go start yet another vaccines are evil thread if you want to pimp your agenda.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 08:36 AM
link tid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en

same in poland... more and more schools gets closed, with amount of kids ill in 50%-75% range.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

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