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The REAL Swine Flu Conspiracy

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posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 12:33 AM
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As for your last question -

People are dying from the swine flu as the primary cause and the actual mechanism causing them to die can be any of several secondary causes.

The swine flu comes in and causes the cytokine storm which triggers massive lung damage. Some people get a hemorrhagic fever and die from suffocation due to the internal bleeding in the lungs.

Some survive the cytokine storm but the lung damage leaves them able to develop a secondary infection very easily. These people die of secondary pneumonia, usually.

Some end up on ventilators from the lung damage, they might die of any number of causes related to this.

Others have existing health problems which the swine flu makes worse. It might cause a heart defect to finally give out or cause organ failure.

In the end they died of swine flu. Picking apart all the many ways the swine flu kills people is a waste of time, they died because they caught the virus and it led to something fatal.

All these stories about other pathogens and strains of flu are just typical bad information. The blot testing method being used creates false positives, this is a known defect. Only the full lab testing is able to give us reliable results and it takes time and costs money. The press in Ukraine has been very, very unreliable.

That's nothing new as the press in the US and everywhere else has been very unreliable for accurate news. Where's the pressure on the WHO to tell the truth? That's why I go after the first hand evidence and don't rely on the media.




posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 01:46 AM
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Whoever you are Eco… You enjoy playing both sides. You won’t entertain a conspiracy, yet you won’t trust the WHO either. How exactly is the WHO funded, if you recall? That’s a rhetorical question because we both know the answer.

As to this…






I don't think anyone is releasing the virus, it's just the normal 20 year pandemic cycle.




I don’t really have a question for you more of a statement. It’s recommended we get flu shots. This builds a tolerance to certain strains, but also promotes mutations for stronger and stronger variety. We’re sold these vaccines and flu remedies by some of the same people in banking and politics. Clever isn’t it? They enjoy playing both sides too.


Now when H1N1 (swine) flu first appeared it was said to be a combination of human, swine, and avian. A virus that crossed from one species to the next. Latest news story was that of a house cat found with H1N1 (swine) flu.


Please describe realistic scenarios for H1N1 (swine) flu to occur naturally. Oh wait, you won’t because portions of this strain were brought back in a lab (for research of course).


What we’re able to gather from this would be simple facts. It was custom fit for vaccines/release. The vaccine/mist is able to shed the virus, and pass to more and more hosts while the virus mutates for its survival. This opens up the entire population to multiple infections, heightened immune system response, and a state of complete and utter madness. All the while (we’ll call them manufacturers and stock holders) accumulate wealth and remainder resources.



I go back to what you’re doing inside your posts… Playing both sides. This is a win/win for the wealthiest elite. Draw power, instill fear, create need, stifle dissent, and rid the planet of some extra weight. It’s fine for you to be the devil’s advocate, but it gets old after a while. Eventually you’re going to connect the dots, and be able to pick a side. I hope it’s sooner rather than later though. Perhaps you’ll start to use more your intuition… It’s inevitable at some point.



Names please...



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:52 AM
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reply to post by Americanist
 


Playing both sides?

Whatever.

I've laid out a conspiracy that I believe is actually possible. From day one I've said the WHO is not telling the entire truth.

I guess in your World the bad guys all wear black hats and run around kicking puppies?

There is nothing abnormal about this virus. I've actually contacted and spoken with around a dozen virologists and microbiologists, some of them in the family.

Sorry to burst your bubble but this pandemic virus is completely in line with previous outbreaks, including ones which predate modern genetic and micro biology abilities.

That for me is the real problem, people that pimp a conspiracy while not even bothering to do the slightest bit of research. Just go off the top of your heads and make it up as you go along.....

If there are real "agents" here they are the ones pushing the conspiracy over the line into pure lunacy. The best tactic they have is to make it all look crazy. IMO, the people pushing the popular conspiracy are the one's who fit that description to a T.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by ecoparity]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 05:34 AM
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Fragile Care Worsened Swine Flu in Ukraine



Fragile Care Worsened Swine Flu in Ukraine

By ELLEN BARRY
Published: November 13, 2009

LVIV, Ukraine — When patients began arriving in Vyacheslav Bonder’s intensive care unit two weeks ago, their lungs so saturated with blood that they could barely gasp, the only thing he could compare it to was a field hospital in wartime. As soon as he hooked one patient up to a ventilator, a second and third would appear in the doorway.

By that time, hospitals were clearing wards to make room for a wave of pneumonia cases, and people were crowding into drugstores to buy whatever they could get their hands on. Rumors were circulating that the government had ordered the city aerially sprayed with chemicals, to cure Lviv (pronounced luh-VEEVE) of disease or, in a grimmer version, to exterminate its carriers.

The panic lifted almost as quickly as it had arrived, and the World Health Organization announced Friday that the swine flu illnesses and deaths so far in Ukraine — 265 fatalities nationwide, with 87 in the Lviv region — were statistically no worse than those in other countries. But what happened here has drawn rapt attention from experts bracing for the epidemic to hit Europe, and especially the fragile health care systems of countries of the former Soviet Union.

Early findings are that serious cases mounted because the sick avoided hospitalization until their illness was dangerously advanced, stockpiles of Tamiflu were locked in centralized locations and the supply of ventilators fell short, said David Mercer, of the World Health Organization’s European regional office.

“It’s not like this caught us by surprise; we’ve known for months that this was coming,” said Dr. Mercer, who heads the office’s communicable disease unit. “We’ve been working very hard on plans, but sometimes the battle plan doesn’t survive the first contact with the enemy. We’ve had to change a lot of things on the fly.”

With the worst of the health care crisis here past, many in Ukraine’s western provinces are trying to puzzle out what led to it. Doctors blame the news media and politicians for spreading fear and misinformation. The mayors of Ternopyl and Lviv, which reported their first deaths from atypical pneumonia on Oct. 12 and 19, have complained that the federal epidemiological service refused to act without laboratory confirmation that the virus was present, delaying serious measures by nearly two weeks.

Others point to more remote causes, among them the desperate poverty of Ukraine’s health care system 20 years after the Soviet Union collapsed.

In Lviv, senior doctors earn a monthly salary of 1,500 hryvnas, approximately $184, pay so low that many physicians leave their practices to work as home health aides in Western Europe. Though health care is officially free, patients typically pay a stream of cash bribes for services as large as X-rays and as small as blood tests or linen changes.

Ukrainians rely heavily on home remedies, and that is what they did for the third and fourth weeks of October, resorting to garlic and lemons and waiting so long to check into hospitals that by the time they did, many were beyond treatment.


“Medicine is underdeveloped in Ukraine, and people don’t believe in it — it’s a vicious circle,” said Oleh Berezuk, a physician who heads the mayor’s administration in Lviv. “In a mature country, if you get sick you will not say, ‘Nobody can help me.’ ”

Now, the doctors at Lviv’s main pulmonological hospital have the shaky good humor of people who have come through a crisis, though portions of their hospital are clammy and unlighted (“to scare the viruses,” one doctor joked), and some of their breathing equipment dates from Soviet times.

Two weeks ago, though, doctors here thought they were looking at a medical mystery: the deaths of healthy young people — not the drunks or addicts they usually see — with lungs so inflamed that they resembled liver. Dr. Bonder recalls the numb realization that his ordinary protocol for treating pneumonia was having no impact at all.

“You would come in to work and the next time you looked at your watch it was midnight,” said Dr. Bonder, who heads the intensive care unit. “You didn’t even think what could happen next.”

Nurses and doctors were falling ill at an alarming rate, in part because of shortages of gloves and disinfectant. Irina Mykychak, the assistant director of Lviv’s regional medical department, said around 3,500 medical professionals fell ill, of whom 300 were hospitalized and 4 died.

When they did suspect H1N1, physicians were stuck in a Catch-22. Though the government had stockpiled Tamiflu in preparation for an outbreak they expected later in the year, the drug was available only at the region’s single infectious disease station — and only with proof that a patient had H1N1. Obtaining proof was a three-to-four-day process that required that samples be sent to Kiev
, said Lyubomir Rak, the hospital’s director.

Nadia Rudnitskaya, chief of pulmonology, was carefully putting the pieces together. On Oct. 27, she examined the body of a 32-year-old man — the latest in a series of four deaths from four parts of western Ukraine that, as she put it, “shouldn’t have happened.” Dr. Rudnitskaya gathered her samples together and appealed urgently to Kiev.

Right then the logjam broke: The next day the governor ordered a quarantine and released the emergency stockpile of Tamiflu to clinics and hospitals. A day after that, Prime Minister Yulia V. Tymoshenko announced on television that the virus had “reached epidemic threshold,” and all of Ukraine was talking about H1N1.

“It was a riddle,” Dr. Rudnitskaya said. “There was an answer.”

For some, it came too late. Marta and Nazar Martin insisted that their mother, Galina, 43, check into a hospital on Oct. 23, after her cough worsened into shallow, labored panting. A dentist, she had been treating herself with intravenous antibiotics and flu medications, as she had always done before.

“No one knew there was an epidemic,” said Marta, 18. “Nothing was said, not at work, not on television.”

The hospital offered no answers either. Doctors first prescribed antibiotics for bronchitis, then punctured Ms. Martin’s spinal column to test for meningitis and encephalitis, then gave her an M.R.I. to rule out a brain tumor. With every new prescription, her children scraped up the money and set off to find a pharmacy where it was available, Marta said.

“A poor person would just die,” she said. “They will not start a medication until you pay for it.”

On Oct. 29, when information about H1N1 flooded the region, doctors and nurses showed up wearing masks for the first time, Nazar said. He watched incredulously; his mother had already declined so much that she was “half a corpse,” he said. After she died, the next day, samples from her body were sent to be tested for swine flu.

Her children estimate they paid 35,000 hryvna, or about $4,300, in cash payments to nurses and doctors during the week she spent in the hospital. The more they hear about swine flu, the angrier they get.

“Why didn’t they take measures before then?” said Nazar Martin, 19. “I’m interested in knowing what they were thinking. They took this seriously only when people began to die, when the death statistics began to rise. Where were they before then?”

“It’s on their conscience,” he said, of the medical authorities. “They should have done something to prevent it.”


Gee it only took two weeks for the news media in the US to catch up and start reporting what I've been trying to tell people the entire time.

Where are the other flu viruses in this article? Where's the plague and mysterious bacteria infections?

Those claims will vanish and never appear again in another week or so.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by ecoparity
So I thought, if there really is an issue with the vaccine maybe there would be reports. I saw a forum post claiming that several women had lost pregnancies after taking the vaccine, where can I obtain proof of this?

It just so happens the government maintains a database for reporting "Adverse Vaccine Reactions" - as mandated by Congress.

Nurses, Drs, drug reps even patients can report adverse reactions to vaccines which are stored in a database anyone can access.

So I went and pulled down the data for this year: Vaccine Adverse Reaction Database

Wow, there's a lot of data and you have to look at two different spreadsheets sometimes to see which vaccine did it. Scary, scary stuff though.

So what did I find?

Almost all the flu shot reactions are soreness, pain in the arm where the shot was injected. I only found one major incident involving a soldier and the nasal vaccine but the Dr says the event was not from the vaccine but from a pre-existing neurological condition.

OK, well it should be easy to find all those mis-carriages, right?

Nope, not a single one people.

Now, GARDASIL on the other hand is one scary as hell vaccine. There are several reports of lost babies from that one by women who "became pregnant" soon after taking it. Even the other reactions are pretty scary and there are TONS of reports.

Now I know what people are going to say, government database and all that but there are some pretty "serious" reports in there for every vaccine you can imagine and anyone can call in a report, it's not just for medical professionals.

I actually expected to find those miscarriages but as usual, the only source is a forum on the Internet and not even one report made the database. Anyway, enjoy the reading - you may never take a shot again afterwards...





So I thought, if there really is an issue with the vaccine maybe there would be reports. I saw a forum post claiming that several women had lost pregnancies after taking the vaccine, where can I obtain proof of this?



No you can't actually! - in the written agreement between the vaccine producers and the Governments who are the buyers of the 2009 A-H1N1 swine flu vaccine it is written something like this:

1. None of the producers will have responsibility regarding the vaccine and its side-effects and you can't sue them in court if anything happens.

2. By this written agreement between the producer and the Government you agree to NOT report this information to anyone about ANY Adverse Vaccine Reactions and side-effects of the vaccine before THEY can investigate each case before it can be reported (and polish & skew the data?)




Now, GARDASIL on the other hand is one scary as hell vaccine. There are several reports of lost babies from that one by women who "became pregnant" soon after taking it. Even the other reactions are pretty scary and there are TONS of reports.


My friend! and what's the common ingredient in both GARDASIL and PANDREMIX?

It's POLYSORBATE 80 - TWEEN 80

Polysorbate 80 or TWEEN 80 is well known to work as a contraceptive and are making "Rats" sterile - and could maybe the cause for "some" women now having mis-carriages? - but that information would certainly be classified a long time according to the written agreement between the Producer Corporation and the Goverment who bought the vaccine.

The producer through this contract OWN this information - and everything has to go through them before the information can be released to the Government databases or be made official or to the media.

Therefore are we not going to see any reports neither from the producers nor from the affected Governments because of this deal that was made between them in the contract for buying the vaccine.

So if you are believing & thinking that all the cards will be on the table - all of the time! right now through databases during this current pandemic! - please think again!

There has never before in history being such secretive deals & contracts made with highly suspicious "special legal clauses & nonresponsibility" regarding health between private corporations and Governments worldwide, until now!

Normal rules don't apply anymore - we are in nations of emergency!

Read my earlier post here about 'Polysorbate 80' - TWEEN 80 with the link to Oxford journal and google for more studies - then connect the dots yourself!


[edit on 14-11-2009 by Chevalerous]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 09:27 AM
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Polysorbate 80 has been used in make up, shampoo and even ice cream for quite a while now.

Is it bad for you? Probably but if so then its one of many on a long list of such things in just about every product sold today.

I don't believe for a minute that the nasty adverse reactions in Gardasil are being caused by it, if anything it's the actual drug. One of the most common reactions is for the patient to go into total paralysis with painful muscle cramps all over the body.

None of the swine flu reactions reported even come close.

People are claiming that the vaccine has killed people but no one can even come up with one news report for me. The reactions database doesn't have anything worse than sore muscles and flu like symptoms.

Would I prefer to drown in my own blood from swine flu?

I can find numerous reports, documentation and even first hand stories that people have died from swine flu. The one thing they all had in common?

They didn't take the vaccine.

At the end of the day we still have this issue of thousands and thousands of people who would know if anything was in the virus or the vaccine that shouldn't be.

I'd prefer not to take any vaccines or medicines for that matter. The next generation of both looks to be extremely dangerous.

Despite that, there is no conspiracy to use a flu bioweapon to convince people to take a vaccine bio weapon. Sorry, there is not one bit of science to it, no proof and it cannot be done without being caught.

If I were the NWO I'd allow the normal pandemic cycle to take place, make sure the vaccine for it is hard to get for the countries in need of depopulation and I'd use my agents to start a conspiracy rumor so the "patriot" community would avoid the vaccine.

The chances of getting caught that way would be minimal.

Sadly, that's what I see happening. I investigate a lot of conspiracies including UFO cases and this swine flu conspiracy is one of the weakest I've ever seen. Not even one insider coming forward to talk about "the plan".

The main story behind it, the Baxter incident, was not what people think it is. Even I managed to find the real story on that but a career reporter could not?

How about the Moshe incident. Attacked by a SWAT team, gassed heavily and no effect what so ever? Anyone who knows anything about CS Gas knows there is no being trained to overcome it with zero effects. You can be trained to keep going, to ignore the pain but the physical reactions to it will happen. Moshe had no physical effects because he wasn't really gassed.

I can spot a manipulation ploy when I see it and there's something not right about that reporter and especially with the Moshe incident.

Real conspiracies don't require lies or bending the facts. The popular theory is full of such things. This isn't driven by evidence, it's driven by people wanting to believe in it.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by ecoparity
Polysorbate 80 has been used in make up, shampoo and even ice cream for quite a while now.

Is it bad for you? Probably but if so then its one of many on a long list of such things in just about every product sold today.



This is a very poor defence coming from you!

Even if the bad Polysorbate 80 is used in make up, shampoo and ice cream - you don't want to INJECT IT into your body!

This is exactly the same that goes for SQUALENE!

While we can find many health products where squalene is an ingredient - lotions, skin creame, shampoo and other products - but some of us are not eager to INJECT SQUALENE into our bodies and immune-systems!

WHY! because we have several well documented medical studies and scientific papers that clearly show that they are lying to us about the dangers of injecting squalene into our bodies as an artificial booster!

While I understand and agree with some of what you are saying here, I unfortunately don't trust your intentions now since you wrote this last post of yours! - sorry!

There's a dog buried here regarding the ingredients of this vaccine - and I'm not so hot on acting like a guinea pig until I know the long term effects of the injections of this vaccine! - sorry buddy!

It may be very true and correct that "some" people are drowning in their own fluids right now as we have seen reports of since this nightmare begun! - but not all! WHY? what makes you just the unlucky one with severe cytokine storm or developing a pneumonia because the virus is deep in your lungs - and why do some tissue samples taken show exactly the same damages in the lungs as H5N1? - I would like to see the uncorrupt real numbers and studies about these cases! - but you can't! because they are hiding this information from us!

And don't give me the standard BS answer and pull the "under laying condition" on me please!

But something about this virus and the complications therof and the vaccine ain't right!

But as it is of today! maybe? I'll take my chance with mother nature and fight this flu the natural way like many other have done until now!

Maybe I die? maybe not?

The same can be said if I take the vacccine!

Maybe then I am one of those unlucky souls who develop an autoimmune disorder or an autoimmune disease?

It's russian roulette whatever you decide to do!

One thing is sure though! I don't trust any of my Government health officials regarding this anymore because of all lies and deceptions - neither do I trust the big business of the Big Pharma Mafia nor the WHO - they have made fools of themselves in my eyes - all of them! - from all lies & misinformation they have delivered so far!

That's why I like many others are desperately looking for TRUE answers!


[edit on 14-11-2009 by Chevalerous]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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People get into the habit of assuming that only the WHO or CDC is studying the virus. This just isn't true. There are tens of thousands of researchers, scientists, students - all studying samples of the virus taken from patients or from shared databases of genetic sequences.

Interesting...



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 10:22 AM
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Let's have another example of how the people driving people into this popular conspiracy turn out to be liars and frauds...

A very nice lady posted this youtube video on the Ukraine thread:

www.youtube.com...

In it, a Dr claims he told his nurses not to get the flu vaccine after reading the product insert.

The host asks him if he's going to read the insert and he says, "no, I'm going to read the letter I wrote for my nurses". He then lists all the usual possible side effects you can find in just about any product insert for any medication. They lists them there because most people don't read them and it helps give them even more legal protection (besides the govt immunity on vaccines).

He then claims the insert listed squalene in the ingrediants.

Fluvirin, the vaccine he mentioned, does not have squalene in it at this time in the USA! I've given the links for the product inserts, go to FDA.gov and check for yourself.

Suspecting yet another person with financial interests or possibly working for the NWO, I went to his website. Sure enough, he sells lots of products including "alternatives". "Dr Fit"

I decided to check just one of his products, pentosan sulfate; a drug he sells as an injection or inhaled substance for arthritis.

The product information on pentosan sulfate reads just as horrible as the vaccine. Rectal bleeding, cancer, CJD (mad cow disease)....

To top it off, pentosan sulfate has not been fully tested for reproductive damage / side effects.

Pentosan sulfate is a prion for God's sake.

Why is it every time I find someone trying to scare people away from the vaccines they turn out to be lying hypocrites?

Why do they need to lie?

Call me crazy but usually when I find people in the media lying in order to push a position on people there is a conspiracy of some kind involved behind their actions.

I don't like squalene or mercury in the vaccines and I won't take one if either is in it but I don't go around telling people it's in there when it's not in order to convince them. When we're talking about a potential life and death issue I think the truth is kind of critical, don't you?

[edit on 14-11-2009 by ecoparity]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Chevalerous
 


I don't take vaccines as a rule but when a pandemic comes around that kills people in droves I have to consider making an exception.

I've waited and taken my chances, up until Ukraine it looked like the swine flu wasn't going to be that bad yet. The 1918 flu was the same way, it didn't really get back until the late 2nd and 3rd waves.

If it comes out that a mutation has happened in Ukraine then yes, I will definitely get the vaccine. If I could go into isolation I'd prefer to do that but my wife won't cooperate. She just has to visit her family every week.

Really I don't see pointing out that the substance is in thousands of products as a "defense" - it's a fact. Do I like it? Hell no, I don't trust half the crap they put in food and other products but how much choice do I have?

If you can live a life free of all dangerous substances (the level of danger being debatable) then good for you. I live in the real World. In the end I'm sure I'll end up dying a few years sooner than I would have if I'd lived a clean, chemical free life.

Then again, a plane could crash on me tomorrow and I'll be just as dead. I smoke and like steak too.

A pandemic vaccine is a choice between two evils, IMO. Do I want to die now of the swine flu or do I want to live and possibly die later but lose a month or year or two off my lifespan?

If even one qualified scientist was backing up the swine flu conspiracy I'd make my choices accordingly but all I see are lies and manipulation to scare people away from teh vaccines and away from protecting themselves.

Don't forget, the other half of the conspiracy is that the "swine flu isn't real. It's all a hoax meant to get you vaccinated". Unfortunately it is real and it is killing people who didn't vaccinate.

You don't want to take the vaccine? Cool, don't. I even hope no one forces you to. I want you to be able to make that choice just like I want to be able to make mine.

I'm not going to lie to people to try and convince them to do it, though. Too bad the other side isn't holding up the same standard.



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 11:09 PM
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well, unfortunately, my info may be "old" but also is what the main stream medical says. the seasonal flu shots are/were being given up to a couple weeks ago. if "swine flu" is h1n1, why do we need a 2nd does of it if the "main stream medical" is being so honest?
IMHO, the only reason the 3rd was dropped, cause of all the bad publicity
why all the stuff to crank up your immune system this year? it could be done with the same "conventional"process as all previous years.
and if you patent the process to make a cardboardbox, no matter how hard you try, you can NEVER end up, no matter how hard you want to, with the truck that carries the box. the process patented, makes all big pharma have to pay baxter. period the vaccine was developed in less than 6 weeks. the US gov has exempted all manufacturers from liability.

and WHY would the conspiricy group be a target? 10,000 people world wide, and many of which probably are easily subdued (or discredited) in more conventional ways.
take your shots dude, but the mis information you spread, that effects other persons, will be YOUR soul responsibility, at the end of days.

Have you ever delt with auto-immune diseases? any family or friends?
watched your kids skin flip out, or have to help your wife out of bed?
what is an amazing coincidence is the rise of those problems since vaccines have started. cancer from monkey kidney cultures? naw, never happen...
but they cured polio, and those people never had occurances in later life, opps, no wait, never mind
thousands of years of humanity on the planet, and aids never existing until now? coincidence MS, Lupis, and many others have increased. anti biotic resistant infections. and now add malaria to the list

If big pharma was so caring, why take the exemption? why the big costs?
you have friends in pharma, well, I have customers there.
I have been in pharma manufacturing facilities, and will NEVER take anything they offer, if for no other reason, the amazing bright colored funk growing in the corners of the warehouse.
We are being slowly poisoned, weither intentionally, or not. How come so many groups are trying to sequence the genes, when baxter could just send them an email? they own it, they won't let you know what it is. they don't want you to know.

and for the record, the vast majority of your posts ARE on the flu, as per your profile info

may God bless you

dr



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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Adults only need one shot, the stories about 2 or 3 were very early on, prior to testing. Young children are given two shots but the amount of vaccine in them is greatly reduced. The dose is split in half, it's not like they have to get two full doses.

Once testing showed h1n1 was displacing the seasonal flu the seasonal flu vaccines were discontinued.

It's not just the "conspiracy" community, it's the patriot community and basically anyone else who can be convinced not to trust the government. It would benefit the NWO greatly to have a majority of the deaths be to people of that mindset.

Yes, I'm posting about flu now because that is the subject of the moment. If you checked you'd see before that I was involved in quite a few exchanges with UFO "skeptics".

IMO, people attack the poster when they cannot dispute the information and the most common and also pathetic version of that is to accuse people of being "agents". I find that entire line of behavior to be ridiculous.

A true conspiracy doesn't require lies or missing data to be credible. It also has to be able to be accomplished without exposure.

One of the rumors floating around is that several strains of flu were detected in tests in Ukraine. Setting aside the known fact that the Western Blot test they are using is very prone to bad results, let's pretend they did indeed find these strains.

If that is true then my assertion that any attempted use of bio weapons would be easily found and publicized turns out to be correct. As I've pointed out, why would they do something that would be found out so easily?

Are they really that foolish to implement a plan that will expose them so easily?

Once the full , lab testing with genetic profiles is complete we will know for
sure if the reports are real or erroneous. I'm very confident the reports will turn out to be incorrect, the pathogen will be H1N1 with the only exception being a mutation or re-assortment of some kind which might show up as a new strain of avian or swine flu.

I think the reports, even though they will turn out to be wrong, should serve as a warning that the popular theory is impossible to get away with as I've tried to tell people. I'm also completely sure that any attempt to hide something in the vaccines would also be detected immediately.

I think the NWO is intelligent enough to take the approach that precludes detection. By combining a vaccine shortage with propaganda intended to scare people into avoiding the vaccines they can target the countries which have growing populations and cannot obtain vaccine while also killing off the segment of their own populations which represents the biggest threat to their plans.

I see way too much work being done to spread the vaccine hysteria by people who are most likely to be working for the NWO or be fooled into doing so unconsciously.



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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When the pandemic goes full swing this winter, is it still considered a conspiracy?

I'm sure the disinformants can think of some sort of spin to put on it then.

However, by then we'll all be under martial law, refined to our homes, and rationed food and water



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by AaronTheSpeaker
When the pandemic goes full swing this winter, is it still considered a conspiracy?

I'm sure the disinformants can think of some sort of spin to put on it then.

However, by then we'll all be under martial law, refined to our homes, and rationed food and water


According to the popular conspiracy (as I call it) there is no pandemic, the swine flu is a hoax and the media is hyping it to get people to take a vaccine which contains a "soft kill bioweapon" meant to reduct the population.

All the people infected and dying were sprayed with some kind of bio weapon, the theories range from bacteria to plague, other flu viruses and nerve gas.

There is no allowance made for the fact that over one hundred thousand people are performing testing and genetic analysis of the virus as well as the vaccines and have not found anything other than swine flu and swine flu vaccine.

The answer to that is that all of these people are in on it or can be controlled and prevented from speaking out by employers.....


IMO the vaccine is safe as long as you get it without squalene and mercury in it. A few people will have reactions, mostly minor but a few will die who have egg allergies they did not know about or did not know that the vaccine can trigger an egg allergy.

Given I have family members who are virologists and are directly involved in the pandemic response I have no doubt they would warn me if something were amiss.

For the popular conspiracy to work all of these scientists would have to be willing to die and allow family and friends to die as well. While there are a few depopulation fanatics out there the majority of scientists I know are good people who care about life.

The probable mutation from Ukraine is spreading and has made it's way to North America, as evidenced by a large uptake in deaths in Canada. We in the US do not have long, days to a week I'm told to either isolate or vaccinate.

Unfortunately when people here start dying the popular conspiracy crowd will just go "more extreme", IMO. After a few of them die the reaction will not be something any of us want to watch.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 08:57 AM
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More proof the actual conspiracy is not the "popular one" (as I call it):

Please take a minute to review this excellent post here on ATS by member Umbrax which lays out the real definition of "disinformation".

Going down the list I can see where quite a few of the posters pushing the popular theory here on ATS and elsewhere fit the tactics of disinformation to a "T". Not just a few here and there, every single tactic!

As I've stated, every time I look into the claims being made I find false information. Are people lying or just being ignorant?

I've countered these incidents of false information with as much documentation as I can post. This includes official as well as unofficial sources.

The response has overwhelmingly been to attack me rather than the information.



7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could so taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.


From where I sit, it sure looks like someone is running a disinformation campaign meant to scare people away from the vaccines as well as protecting themselves at all. (If the swine flu is a hoax there's no need to protect yourself, right?)



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 09:27 AM
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Here is a post on ATS about who is providing the information on the CDC website.

A company called Vangent, who is a defence contractor for all branches of the military, the Naval Research center, several Medical insurance companies, and Glaxo Smith Kline, the second largest drug company by revenue and a company who is trying to get more adjuvants approved.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think this is more about money than anyhting else (I relly hope anyway).

Notice on the CDC website how they stopped tracking just H1N1 and started counting all flu and pneumonia as swine flu. This was because this so called pandemic was going away. As of August 30th when they changed the tracking then it started to get worse.

They had committed to billions of dollars in vaccines and had to make it look like it was still out there to save face.

Then too if you are not approved to sell the vaccine in the USA you leak a bird flu strain in Europe to spread a mutated version as you have a USA patent for vaccines including that one.

Scary stuuf either way.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by whattheh

Here is a post on ATS about who is providing the information on the CDC website.

A company called Vangent, who is a defence contractor for all branches of the military, the Naval Research center, several Medical insurance companies, and Glaxo Smith Kline, the second largest drug company by revenue and a company who is trying to get more adjuvants approved.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think this is more about money than anyhting else (I relly hope anyway).

Notice on the CDC website how they stopped tracking just H1N1 and started counting all flu and pneumonia as swine flu. This was because this so called pandemic was going away. As of August 30th when they changed the tracking then it started to get worse.

They had committed to billions of dollars in vaccines and had to make it look like it was still out there to save face.

Then too if you are not approved to sell the vaccine in the USA you leak a bird flu strain in Europe to spread a mutated version as you have a USA patent for vaccines including that one.

Scary stuuf either way.


The CDC summarizes statistics provided by city and state public health agencies. These statistics can be obtained online easily so any changes to the counts is easily detected.

The CDC and WHO set policies about what would and wouldn't be counted in order to minimize the real effects of the swine flu. People claim they were trying to hype the danger when in reality they were doing what they could to hide it.

I agree that the policy of no longer testing caused more problems than it solved. This allowed them to save a great deal of money in lab testing and also keep quiet the real number of infected and dead to a minimum.

Unless you believe some bio weapon is being used in Ukraine and every other country hit by the flu before it the pandemic did not "go away". The level of damage just wasn't what people expected it to be after Mexico.

This pandemic is following the same path as the last swine flu pandemic in 1918 (the last time we were hit with a true pandemic of this virus). This first wave or two has been relatively mild but it looks like the next one will be much worse.

Any attempts to "leak" a virus will be detected and publicized by the community of researchers. This is not something that can be done and not detected. This was said in the early days of the swine flu outbreak but research found the strains involved had been in circulation for years.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by ecoparity]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by ecoparity
 
Eco- I looked through the topics on the pandemic section and I don't see anything about the story from maybe May or June of this year pertaining to vaccination of US naval personnel and some sort of bad side effects that passed from the ship to another ship which had not received any vaccine. Do you have any info on that?



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


I'll check into it. There's nothing about it in the adverse reactions database which the military is required to submit such things to. There are a couple of Army reports in there, one of which was serious but the patient was found to have a previous neurological problem (but because he collapsed a week after taking the vaccine it had to be reported as a possible adverse reaction). At least it confirms the safety systems are there and being used but that doesn't rule out the military bypassing it, to be fair.

I'll look into it and post what I can find.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Our latest bit of bad information from Ukraine....

Here's the article of the moment in which the coroner alleges more than H1N1 is going round....



During autopsies, what did the lungs look like? Were they really black, which gave rise to so much talk of pulmonary plague?

No, they are not black … This is not pneumonic plague. It’s all nonsense. Pneumonic plague has a very different morphology. We have, for example, 60 thousand people who became sick and 23 have died. With pulmonary plague, we would now have a mortality rate of 59 thousand …


Well, at least the guy doing the autopsies has cleared up that it is not the plague and that the black lungs story is a reference to blood in the lungs...
He's only counting WHO Lab confirmed deaths though which is typical once they land in your country and take over....



Professor, you said earlier that the virus, from which many people have died – is a mixture of types of parainfluenza and influenza A/H1N1. How do you cure this disease?

The question of how to treat this virus is not up to me. I am a pathologist. I just found out what it is and made an exact diagnosis. It is important to provide the correct treatment based on diagnosis.


Here's where we run into a problem. The coroner is not set up to perform genetic sequencing of viruses so he could not possibly be able to determine if there are other flu strains or viruses in play.

What he can do is perform a "Western Blot Test" to get a rapid sub type of the flu viruses in a live patient. These test are very prone to giving false results and earlier reports stated they only had 200 in the entire country so it's not something they are probably familiar with. (Pure speculation on my part).

There is a chance the virus has mutated enough to show up as a new strain due to one of the elements becoming more dominant. It will still be swine flu, however. The WHO certainly has something they don't want to tell us and we can pretty much work out that it will be bad news.

Of course the bio weapon conspiracy crowd is now running with this as proof that something was sprayed on Ukraine. For whatever reason this same thing has to be sprayed on Poland which is next door (since cases are popping up there now) but it managed to get to Canada without the spraying planes......

One thing I'm figuring out is that the "anti vaccine" people are very aggressive. They don't want it to be a matter of personal choice to take the vaccine or not, they want all vaccines burned in a big fire or something.

If you disagree with them you will be called "stupid", "NWO puppet" and of course be accused of being a paid shill for the "big pharma".



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