The REAL Swine Flu Conspiracy

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by ecoparity

 

Eco- I looked through the topics on the pandemic section and I don't see anything about the story from maybe May or June of this year pertaining to vaccination of US naval personnel and some sort of bad side effects that passed from the ship to another ship which had not received any vaccine. Do you have any info on that?

This is one of those kind of real stories that gets used and exaggerated...

The original story was from July 21 when swine flu broke out on a Navy ship: CBS News

No one died and none of the sailors had been vaccinated. The vaccines were not available, even to the military back when this happened.

An email rumor turning it into a bad vaccine reaction that killed the Captain, attributed to a military wife was read on the Bob Chapman show which spun this entire thing off.

I'm serious - every time I check into the back story on this conspiracy I find lies and disinfo. Every time. That fits with my personal version of the swine flu conspiracy theory, of course. I could be wrong though - there might not be a conspiracy here at all other than the WHO and CDC lying to us to prop up the economy....

well... despite the fact english is not my native language, i've manage to read this whole thread. i guess that's enough for a proof i'm not going to discard some things you're saying 'just because', i'm actually thinking you're right... mostly. but... let's go with it in small parts.

about that navy vessel - it was a hoax.
labvirus.wordpress.com...
actually confirming your theory, that they'll do everything to make people refuse to take the vaccine. that's one thing.

second thing, the target. you're saying they want to kill off conspiracy theorists. i agree, it's a perfect plan. someone mentioned here that there's something like 10000 of conspiracy people - it's not exactly about them. it's about reducing the population to very small group, so basically all they want is a group that will do what they say. if someone will believe that they have bad intentions and won't take the vaccine - that means such person won't listen/will rebel in the future.
www.radioliberty.com...
that's kinda interesting thing, especially in case of depopulation agenda. they want half a bilion people at most. seems reasonable for them, i guess.

now, baxter case. you're saying that it was a test. the fact is, at least that's how it was reported in polish TV, that homeless people died from that vaccine. it was tested on them. now, i'm not saying they were trying to cause the pandemic. hell no. when you think about it, that they wanted to scare people off the vaccine, this was the best thing they could do. people maybe don't trust the big pharma that much, but they wouldn't refuse to take the vaccine that much, if baxter wouldn't be compromised. mainly conspiracy folks would refuse, but most people wouldn't listen to them. and now? Jane Burgermeister did her job. i honestly think you should contact her and show her this thread, i can bet she'll be surprised. baxter admitted they did contaminate the vaccine, they did it in polish TV recently. why? polish health minister is saying she won't buy the vaccines, and people are happy with it. she says it's because of the deal big pharma wants her to sign, that they won't be responsible for side effects. i can understand her, especially that it would be probably pandemrix, but still, they're not doing the best thing they can. they're only doing something a little bit less evil thing (depends on point of view) to please the society. and that's what stinks. it's a well played psyop. people don't want the vaccine? they won't get it! some will survive anyway, the rest will die, problem solved.

i agree it's hard to imagine that vaccine will contain something that's not supposed to be there. still, some crap they put in it (like squalene or mercury, amongst other things), is more than bad. look up cervical cancer stories, quite a bunch of girls in UK did get very hurt because of that vaccine, death included. i'm just not really thinking they have to do such things to kill people intentionally. they're just testing what they can get away with. what's the most important thing for them? money. squalene and other crap, all those things that make vaccines dangerous, are there to lower the manufacturing costs. they don't give a damn about side effects. maybe apart from making people sterile, that would be something that would fit their agenda i think. but other than that... those are 'just' side effects, nothing more. so yeah... at the bottom, vaccines, despite the fact the overall concept of vaccine is evil as hell, may save some lifes... at least in cases when side effects won't jump in. i won't take the vaccine, because even if it would be possible to get one without squalene and mercury here, i still don't trust them enough. on the other side... i agree people should be able to make their own choice. but first, they should be well informed. [will continue in next post...]

and while NWO tells people to take it, to save their bunch of sheeple willing to listen, they're not telling us about the possible side effects. they're just doing what they can to earn some cash in every possible situation, as usual. so... despite the fact vaccines are meant to save the lives of those supposed to survive... i'll stick to vitamin C and some other crap, and take my chances. i'm not going to take something that in long run may be worse. honestly, i'm not afraid of death.

the one thing that i don't agree with, is that it's spreading in natural way. there's more and more social unrest, at least here in europe, regarding economic crisis. they've added their own stuff to this already, by making people believe that they want to kill them all with the vaccines (baxter case done on purpose, false conspiracy loonies). if they want to keep it all under control... they have to kill people. fast. how many people they would like to survive? half a billion? they don't need too many vaccines then, especially that they can estimate the real (not underreported - i agree with that as well, that both number of actual cases and actual deaths are underreported - they don't want people to panic, because they don't want people to prepare - they know perfectly that if not the vaccine, then even something like vitamin C has some potential to save them - and they don't want too many people to survive this) kill ratio of the virus they're spreading. yes, spreading. this strain is artificial in origin in my opinion. how it was released in mexico, doesn't matter right now. since then it was spreading on it's own, i agree with that. they didn't have to intervene. they knew it's mild. they just wanted to go level 6 with WHO, spark some conspiracy fire and scare people. a few willing to obey to take the vaccine, the rest to believe it's all a hoax and evil conspiracy, to make them die. i agree there were some single heavy cases in the past. but now the speed it's spreading with, and the kill ratio, is much bigger. also, new wave started in ukraine. there was basically no swine flu in ukraine before. probably underreported as well, i agree - lack of testing and so on. still, if they would have even the amount of cases we've had in poland (just a bunch), they would do some tests and they would notice it. now they have over a million of people infected, and i assume that most, if not all cases, are H1N1. and people were reporting planes spraying there, just before the pandemic started. same in poland currently, they've started spraying the skies, i saw few chemtrails myself recently, as i've posted in the other thread. and as i've said there, we have 3 deaths already, all in cities mentioned in chemtrails reports. those are real. think about it, it doesn't really argue with your theory, it's quite the opposite. people can't check what's going on. i've read quite a few reports in polish, people started checking those planes, they were not mentioned in any flight plans. they even tried to contact the military to try to explain it - guess what. no answer. i'm staying at home almost all of the time, but i've read about people seeing those while being outside, and then feeling weak and ill. and now polish government starts talking about the start of H1N1 pandemic. i'm not sure what is being sprayed, but logic tells me it's H1N1. maybe mixed with other strains, we don't know. as you've said, we have to wait for the gene sequences, and WHO isn't telling us the truth. but i'm quite sure it's same thing being launched in poland right now that was launched in ukraine. launched via chemtrails. let's do some summary of NWO plans:
1. launch mild H1N1 and let it spread on it's own - done, started in mexico
2. launch the oversized hype, rise pandemic alert level to 6, so that most of the people will say WTF and will refuse to cooperate, while the usefull, obeying orders bunch of sheeple will agree to take the vaccine - done
3. [in next post...]

and...
3. what should we do now? we have the vaccine, we have the sheeple we want, that will take it, we have our fake conspiracy loonies, making sure people won't see the truth... and we have increasing social unrest because of economic collapse, amongst other things (people opening their eyes on some subjects like global warming), so we're kinda running out of time... we have to calm them down, so let's downplay it more (like recent report by austrian government, saying that H1N1 pandemic will likely start later - rising concerns that they base it on the fact that people refuse to take the vaccine - and that suggesting that virus is in the vaccine - good! - another fake conspiracy), and start killing off people. they will spot some planes - so what? they won't chase them. they usually won't be even able to make a photo. and before they'll start thinking about it seriously, those planes won't be needed already, and people will be busy with fighting pandemic - that's exactly what happened in ukraine. few sprayings and that's it - epidemic started. they could, of course, wait for it to spread naturally like the mild strain from mexico did - but it would take months to spread over the world. i know that spreading of previous, mild strain, was underreported. deaths probably as well. but same is true for current strain from ukraine, especially considering the death toll. and if killing ratio is higher, and it certainly is, then it would spread slower. this strain is able to kill a person in a week or probably less. i think they're just afraid of loosing control over the society, especially considering the economic situation, and prefer to have it done already.

so yeah... houston, we have a problem.
chemtrails over poland, chemtrails over austria... i think that at least in those two places we'll see the new pandemic spreading out very, very fast. i mean... i'm living in poland. i saw those chemtrails. 3 death cases already, while there were none at all before. all 3 with H1N1, all 3 died from pneumonia, all 3 from the cities being sprayed... and government saying already about the start of H1N1 pandemic. coincidence? i don't think so. they did what they wanted to do. only small group of people wants the vaccine, only the group that they want to survive.
it's about time.

good job, btw.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

I have internal EU governing body documents on the Baxter incident. They confirm what I was told by family members who are in the position to know, that it was not what the reporter is describing. Those will be released here on ATS along with Mike's interview so I can't post them right now.

I doubt they are using planes just because the infection rate would be much higher but I can't just dismiss them. I was told they were going to aeroclave Lviv the day before the first report came out so in that case I think it was an effort to stop the virus.

There are a lot of other ways to spread the virus that would be much more hidden than using planes though. I think that would be too much of a risk, especially in that part of the World where people will launch a revolution if they feel it's needed.

The virus is spreading just like the first wave of the 1918 flu. It wasn't until a mutation and a second wave that massive numbers started to die and when they did it was just like what we're hearing in Ukraine.

I don't blame anyone, if it wasn't for my family members telling me its OK I probably wouldn't take the vaccine either. I can't get it here anyway, if I want to use my family connections I have to drive 10 hours to do so.

I'm told the Ukraine mutation is in N America now so it's kind of a watch and wait thing for me right now. If I get the word I'll be heading cross country to get a shot, I suppose.

I didn't think of the angle you brought up but it makes sense. This has the potential to destroy the patriot movement. Unfortunately a lot of the main players re use each other's reports so they've set themselves up for a massive credibility hit on this.

That's part of what got me going on this path, after the fact it can be done without being caught. There seems to be a huge amount of info being fed to the alt news community that turns out to be bad when you dig into it. I think the NWO is pushing that info.

Thanks for taking the time, it's a lot to read.

about baxter... i don't know. but what i can see is that the way it was reported by conspiracy loonies, doesn't matter if that's what actually happened or not, but the way it was reported, fits in NWO plans just perfectly. it adds just the amount of fuel needed to spin all this false conspiracy and to discredit big pharma just so that people won't be too willing to take the vaccine.

and about planes... i don't know either. but for me it feels like it's connected. people are getting sick after being exposed to those chemtrails, at least here. i know those are real, i saw them. people are making photos, one folk from austria is making videos.
theflucase.com... d=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en
that folk says that those planes were painted in yellow and red. guess what... one folk in poland reported a bunch of planes, one painted in unusual way... silver-red. another coincidence? they are doing something... and i doubt they're trying to stop the spread of the pandemic. after all, they want only half a billion to survive, or it seems so. i agree there would be better ways to spread it, perhaps via water supply. but isn't this way the safest from their point of view? people can see those planes, but what will they do? chemtrails were being sprayed over US since years, for whatever reason, and noone did a thing. i've read once a post on one blog, one man from US decided that it's all just too insane, that people aren't even seeing it, aren't noticing it at all. so he tried to provoke people on the street to look at the sky, at the planes spraying chemtrails all over it. guess what... they've ignored him. they simply didn't care. they probably decided that since it worked in US, it will work in europe for bigger operation as well (and at the same time, they can use chemtrails to spread new strain of H1N1 in US without people noticing anything new at all). contaminating water supply or anything else would be dangerous. it would cause very wide spread of the virus in very short time, rising concerns. spraying the sky... some people will be exposed to it, some won't. some people are staying mostly at home, some at work, not really spending too much time on fresh air. add wind to it and you have pretty random solution, that won't look too suspicious. i've also read that sunlight is the natural source of vitamin D, people exposed to sunlight have much higher levels of it, and it may help with H1N1 i think. and what's the side effect of chemtrails? long-lasting myst all over the sky, and no direct sunlight. think about killing two birds with one stone...


[edit on 16-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

Yet another item comes out showing the conspiracy was built on lies -

Meet the real Joseph Moshe

reply to post by ecoparity


yeah, just saw it in the other thread. somehow it doesn't surprise me. it's same case as with baxter it seems - false story to support false conspiracy theory. the only thing that bothers me are those damn chemtrails, that's the only thing that i'm not sure how it fits it all. i'm almost sure they are spreading the new H1N1 strain from ukraine this way, as a final stage of the operation. after all... they want bunch of sheeple ready to take the vaccine to survive, not all of us, right? why would they try to prevent the spreading of the disease? especially that, as i've said... amount of swine flu cases in ukraine before this pandemic was close to zero. i guess if we'll see sudden raise of number of cases in both poland and austria, then it'll confirm that they are spraying it... otherwise... i'm not sure what to think about it.

If my theory is right and the NWO is pushing the conspiracy intentionally to set up the patriot / alt news / conspiracy community and scare them away from vaccines or being prepared the chemtrails could be part of the show.

I have to be honest that I'm neutral on chemtrails. I haven't found scientific evidence that would convince me such as soil samples, air samples containing some sort of contaminant with verification they were taken from a chemtrail and so on.

There are some pretty large technical problems with chemtrails and the concept of spraying biologicals from jets. Keeping the biological alive after being sprayed at that altitude and speed is a big one.

A huge amount of research and complex technology goes into making bio weapon munitions, for example. The biggest problem other than dispersion was how to keep the payload alive during delivery.

A small plane at low altitude with a fog or mist coming out of it would concern me deeply, on the other hand.

I've mentioned the "aeroclave" program a couple of times also. I've tried to find some documentation on it and had an article about it bookmarked at one time but it doesn't come up in search engines now. I can't even wrangle that one from family connections so I think it must still be classified in some way. That would explain why they would use it but not talk about it.

Then again how do we know what's coming out of the plane isn't a biological? Not the smartest defense system to use without announcement if the stories were true.....

I guess they could spray the swine flu to help it spread or make sure a more virulent strain arrives somewhere but they really don't have to. Nature will take care of that for them just fine.

The other issue is the possibility of being caught again. I think they would go with the "no crisis goes to waste" approach and just take advantage of a purely natural pandemic.

They knew it was going to come sooner or later.



[edit on 17-11-2009 by ecoparity]

sooner or later is the key, imho. they have economic crisis and a possibility of riots incoming. and that can make them want to speed up their plans. also, i have a weird feeling there are 2 types of sprayings going on...
1. smaller planes, flying slow and low, even (or maybe usually) during a day - like those i've heard yesterday. when i think about it, they couldn't be possibly too big... they were loud as hell, but...
2. much bigger transport planes, flying slow but above the clouds - i've heard one today... and i never ever heard something like that before in my life. it was around 4:45am, i went to buy some ciggies. it was so low, loud sound that you could almost feel the vibrations. it couldn't fly too high as well, but still much higher than yesterday smaller planes. so... they can be doing two things separately.

worldwide reports about chemtrails, usually from US, state that those bigger planes are flying above the clouds, leaving chemtrails staying in air for a long time, covering whole sky in a milky mist - basically shutting down direct sunlight. and that's what reports of night flights of unknown planes in poland are saying as well - chemtrails covering whole sky, big, loud planes flying slow. remember what i've said about vitamin D?

those chemtrails are probably what the name suggests - chemical crap. people are reporting, in poland as well, weird things falling from the sky. i don't know how to translate it into english... thin, small, gel-alike, short 'hairs'? you know what i mean i guess. they even tried to send those to the national laboratory (samples taken from the car) - guess what... they've refused to do the tests, and refused to return the samples as well.

smaller ones on the contrary... are flying really low, and the trace they're leaving, while still changes into a mist covering whole sky, seems to transform into that mist pretty fast, probably because of wind speed at lower altitude. as i've posted yesterday, those that i saw, disappeared in minutes, while those hovering above the clouds are reported to be visible for hours.

again... theflucase.com... d=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en

notice 'new kind of chemtrails', and 'new kind of airplanes' - smaller planes flying low in poland are reported to have weird colors as well. bottom line... i think lower flying smaller planes are spreading H1N1 to speed up the pandemic, while higher flying bigger planes are spraying 'good old' chemtrails... which some people in poland actually define as being organical (those small gel-alike 'hairs' - they can cause bad feeling as well) - and i remember some old reports from US saying same thing, that those are organical. but... they don't really have to be alive, right? if 'hightrails' are destined to block the sunlight in the first place, and maybe cause some crappy side effects (hey, they're poisoning us with everything else, why not in this way - 'don't waste good side effect'), they can be made of any organical waste. on the contrary, 'lowtrails' may be just pure H1N1... perhaps with some stuff required so that the virus will survive.

what rings a bell for me is that we had no death cases in poland, and now we have some, all died from pneumonia, right after those sprayings started, and government is talking about pandemic.

and to cause even more thinking...

www.wariscrime.com... - there's some stuff that may be weird for you perhaps, but please read it all... they're actually describing contents of chemtrails, and what they're saying about the effects... as well as vaccines and what's possible with them with regards to human DNA... you have some friends, you have a family dealing with such stuff. maybe you can verify it? it would be... interesting.

i know some of my theories seem to be insane, but i think there's nothing too insane for them... as long as it fits their plans perfectly. NWO is occult in it's nature after all. we know, more or less, what they want to accomplish. we know, less than more, how they want to accomplish it, or perhaps how many levels it has. you saw the report of a priest telling people not to get the vaccine at all costs, right? what is it, according to your theory, if not catholic church being openly involved in creating false conspiracy theory? those loonies are more insane than i am.

theflucase.com... Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=pl

The tail end of that one was that the Vatican would be making an announcement as well, the implication being they would tell people to avoid the vaccine.

If that happens I'll know I'm on the right track. I don't see it happening though.

I'm hoping to have some direct reports form Poland soon, that might help clarify if there's anything to the chemtrail stories there.

i am in poland, and i can confirm those but i hope you'll get a confirmation from your sources as well... i would be carefull with my claims if i wouldn't saw those on my own.
and about vatican... we'll see. as far as i know, NWO wants to create new religion (or just give us their own), and doing that after depopulation, or even during it, wouldn't be so stupid at all. getting rid of catholic church thanks to vatican discrediting itself by giving people false information... makes sense.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

theflucase.com... 1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en
interesting...

and that's even more interesting.
theflucase.com... ine&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en
gotta love how her site calls everything 'swine flu scam', while assuming blindly things like this:
'Will WHO and their allies in UK labs use the pandemic plague as a cover for introducing a genetically modified, virulent virus into vaccines?'
pure fearmongering...
i won't take the vaccine, simply because noone will take that choice from me, but i think she's not thinking for a single second 'what if i'm wrong'.

'Now, I get it!! They ONLY used 34 samples to Test! So, Did they take those samples from those who had the bleeding lungs? Or did they ONLY use those, who had the symptoms of the Swine Flu?'
obviously, it's too hard to understand that H1N1 DOES cause pneumonia. this is getting insane.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

reply to post by ecoparity
Thanks for following up on that, the navy story, things always get twisted on the net.



[edit on 17-11-2009 by butcherguy]

[edit on 17-11-2009 by ecoparity]

[edit on 17-11-2009 by ecoparity]

shhhh... i'm trying to convince someone to your/our theory.

reply to post by ecoparity
Eco, you can tell me to go away or mind my own business, but you were paramont in keeping the other thread "rolling along". I see it sputtering now. Could you please come back to prevent the wheels from falling off?

reply to post by lithographyman


you can be 100% sure that constant tries to explain some very basic, yet very important things, to bunch of 'i know everything, i know better, you are NWO puppet' stubborn idiots, can be painfull as hell. some banging around bacteria, some banging around iran/AQ/muslims/russia, some banging around 'there's no flu!'... it's sad that even after seeing obvious evidence, those folks can't admit they're wrong, or just simply ignore it entirely, just to start bashing one or two pages later. like kids.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

I just posted about this in the Canada thread:

Reports are coming from the hospitals in Ukraine that survivors of the flu virus are suffering from a wide range of lasting effects. Lung, heart and neurological problems.

I was told a while back that children in particular were being left with a form of encephalitis here in the US and in Mexico but I wasn't aware these permanent effects were so wide spread.

There's been no announcement yet but I expect there may be one at some point. It fits in with the typical CDC and WHO behavior of trying not to panic people.

Vaccines are in such short supply here that only children and adults under 25 are allowed to get them unless you can prove you fall into one of the high risk groups.

If they were to announce that even mild cases of the swine flu are giving people permanent organ damage the demand for vaccines would skyrocket.

I know a lot of people are gambling they will get a mild or bad case and survive it if they get it at all, this information would push me firmly to the side of getting the vaccine. Unfortunately, I do not meet the requirements as they stand.

Victims left with medical problems

According to the chief pulmonologist at the hospital in Lviv (Western Ukraine, NDT), Dr. Rudnitskaya, who suffered from pneumonia related to influenza A H1N1 may develop chronic lung disease, as the bronchial asthma, because it seems that the disease has caused irreversible organic changes in their lungs. Doctors, however, seem to be still struggling to explain how the phenomenon occurs.

"We're just beginning to study these patients, and we follow them closely, asking them to do regular blood tests and urine. The disease has caused irreversible changes in their lungs, "said the physician assistant department head of research infectious Andrusishin doctor, hospital, Ivano-Frankivsk (Western Ukraine, NDT). "They have great difficulty recovering from their weakened immune system, and there is a high risk they incur all sorts of other infections. Many children who are yet cured of the flu continue to have a temperature of 40 °. We also have three people in intensive care with an influenza syndrome meta-type "meningo-encephalitis (inflammation of the cerebral cortex, NDT). Members of our staff, who were hit by the virus, now suffering from myocarditis. "

[edit on 18-11-2009 by ecoparity]