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At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

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posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:22 AM

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by phoneyid
What some of you people don't understand, is that if 'we' weren't making their countries and their lives a living hell, then they would want to move to our nations.
Do you honestly think they like having their kids grow up with the kids that some of you raised to think like you??

In spite of all the 'axis of the willing' propaganda, I just hope Australia doesn't become as racially intolerant as America.
A country where 45% of people are either born overseas or have at least one parent that is, we can't afford to be.

National ethnic wars are not very nice; but then I look on the positive side; better for you than us.

WRONG. We did not create violence in Islam. The Koran did that. America wasn't even around when the Koran declared violence against all humans.
This is typical muslim nonsense, blame America, blame Australia, blame anyone but never take responsibility for their own actions.

A muslim man went into a US military facility and shot up a bunch of Americans because of his religious belief. Very simple. America did not cause his actions.

I'm not a Muslim.
I'm Greek Orthodox.
One thing I have inherited from my roots is a love for truth, which apparently many of my fellow Anglophone countrymen haven't.
Socrates believed, 'I seek the truth, I question all, and let the political chips fall where they may'.
For example, Greece has a massive 'illegal' immigrant issue also; and the Athens centre streets are full of these young junkies, but unlike us, they see these criminals as victims as much as they see them as being central to the crime problem.

Just for starters, you should read about Operation Ajax, and see how oil has played a role in foreign policy for USA and UK.

You can blame Muslims for there barbarity all you like, but the truth is that Jews lived safest in Muslim countries, unlike the rest of Europe for 1000 years, until the Zionist push starting from about 1890.
That's the time of Hertzel's 1st Zionist National Congress in Bazel Switzerland.
Rham Emanuel's daddy was a member of Irgun, a Jewish Terrorist Organisation recognised as such by USA.

What??? now you're calling for PC... make up your mind.

I'll tell you what;
Let's make history fun...
here's a very funny comedian called Robert Newman explaining about the history of oil in the middle east...

Google Video Link

[edit on 8-11-2009 by phoneyid]

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:55 AM
I was reading that this guy will probably get the death penalty. death by lethal injection- He gets put to sleep like a dog while those he shot to death died in agony... Doesn't seem like the punishment will fit the crime. They should lock him up in a 4X8 cell and let him rot forever OR go back to the days when the military would actually shoot those convicted of crimes such as this....Death by firing squad would seem more appropriate

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:59 AM

Excerpts: Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Now think about it real hard JJay to you really believe that there is not one soldier in the United States Army that didn't join for the expressed purpose of fighting Muslims?

Do you really believe that not one member of our Armed Services has not joined our military for the reason to kill Muslims as a Christian? That those people who might have done just that have killed no Muslims in Afghanistan or Iraq?


What this Army Major is aledged to have done is terribly wrong but wanting to hold 1.6 billion other people responsible for it?

Hi Proto, I have a couple of thoughts on these two excerpts. Yeah, leave it to me to derail the conversation. Hopefully only for a moment.

First, I think there are plenty of our servicemen signed up to serve but hoped never to fight at all. Just me but I think many hoped to put in their time, get their benefits and get the hell out. Are there gung-ho types out to play St. George, slaying dragons? Yep, there always have been.

I do think there are many young people that see the armed forces as springboards into other careers. Even now and perhaps especially now that unemployment is at 10%. I think most of our military people are sincerely patriotic but not out to cleanse the world of Muslims. Our people are not all heartless, brainless hounds. That despite what the latest movie or mini-series would have us believe. I'm certain that killing in combat is a moral struggle for most. The mental history of many returning vets is testament to that.

To the second point I think the Islamic world is partly to blame in that the major imams are not condemning this. They can't, if they condemn this they become targets themselves. It is a fail safe written into their texts. There are no deserters. No one is condemning or cutting the incendiary passages out of the Quran and other texts. And so moderate Muslims living in the US are likewise intimidated into silence. And so we will likely never see bold Islamic condemnation of this, that doesn't mean the sentiment doesn't exist. But the united front that is displayed gives the distinct impression of acceptance.

There are rare examples of Islamic dissention and they are either killed or hounded the rest of their lives. Hirsi Ali comes immediately to mind. As long as the incendiary passages are promoted as the accepted, unchangeable, inspired words of Allah this will continue to happen. There are no signs of moderation, reformation, what have you. No "New Abridged Quran" on the horizon. There's nothing like hijacking your oppressor's book of myths, adding a few "inspired" passages and turning it back on them as a guerrilla warfare manual. Ouch!

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:01 AM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Thank you for you well reasoned and for me 'calming' response.
I agree with everything you said.

My apologies to you and any other well meaning and reasoned persons I may have offended.
If only others understood the game behind the scene; like University of Nebraska at Omaha Printed Jihad Books for Distribution in Pakistan Madrasas

Here there is even footage of Zbigniew Brzezinski giving the Taliban a pep talk, encouraging them to make Holly war, and footage at the end of Obama praising him..

We must bear some guilt for the atrocities committed in our names... and many of our countrymen support these actions.

If we don't kill ALL Muslims, and I don't see that as likely (or right), then I suspect that continuing the way we are, one day we shall all be paying the ferryman.

Edited to add a plagiarised statement "Nationalism is Stockholm Syndrome for the masses."

[edit on 8-11-2009 by phoneyid]

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:07 AM

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yeah, just last week there were Christians killing people because the bible told them to. And the week before that. And so on.
And of course no muslims followed the Koran and killed anyone because they are so peaceful. Let's embrace them and welcome them into out homes and give them our 12 year old daughters.

You have still failed to answer this question:

Where does islam propagate the killing of non-muslims explicitly in context?

It shouldn't be hard for someone who has been studying islam for 40 years?

In islamic studies 40 years of studying islam=islamic scholar.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:12 AM

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Hemisphere

These soldiers jumped right in there to mitigate bleeding, plug sucking chest wounds, and a five-foot woman took this brave, courageous, typical Islamic warrior down.

What a ****ing embarrassment to this typical Islamic warrior who dare not venture into a stand-up gunfight, and have to wade into unarmed men and women to have a chance.

Got beat by a woman!

Not some short-haired, tater-eating -cornfed hulk of a woman, but a petite, attractive woman.

I don't know wether its more embarassing for this 'islamic warrior' to get shot by a petit chic or the fact that he shot a dozen US soldiers dead on US soil in the largest US millitary base on planet earth.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:28 AM
I would like to see a public trial of this man but it's unlikely to happen, especially if there is some sort of cover up involved.
He'll likely have an 'open and shut case' closed military trial.

I'd like to know what he has to say, even though it seems feasible to me that he just snapped.

I couldn't care much less what happens to him (what's a few men), but a closed and speedy trial would not offer much in the interest of truth.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:37 AM

Originally posted by phoneyid
Here there is even footage of Zbigniew Brzezinski giving the Taliban a pep talk, encouraging them to make Holly war, and footage at the end of Obama praising him..

It's spelled Mujahideen not Taliban.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:44 AM

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
reply to post by dooper

The US has done nothing wrong here. The muslims are attacking every major power on planet Earth including China,Russia, UK, India, Spain. They have been on the attack for 1,400 years and this Holy War enabled them to take the whole of Persia, Iraq and Syria, turkey and some Balkans, all of North Africa and much of southern Russia. Please the US has done nothing here other than exist

Chinese state media says more than 100 people have been killed and another 800 people injured in rioting in the far western Xinjiang Autonomous Region.The violence broke out after a protest on Sunday by ethnic Uighurs – Muslims who accuse the Beijing government of a systematic campaign to dilute and destroy their culture..

Witnesses and state media said the violence started only after police arrived to disperse a peaceful protest demanding justice for two Uighurs killed last month during a fight with Han co-workers at a factory in southern China.

Thousands of people took part in Sunday's disturbance, unlike recent sporadic separatist violence carried out by small groups in Xinjiang. The clashes echoed the violent protest that rocked Tibet last year and left many Tibetan communities living under clamped-down security ever since.

Tensions between Uighurs and the majority Han Chinese are never far from the surface in Xinjiang, a sprawling region rich in minerals and oil that borders eight Central Asian nations. Many Uighurs (pronounced WEE-gers) yearn for independence and some militants have waged a sporadic, violent separatist campaign.


I don't think i need to remind you of the ethnic cleansing that took place in chechnya and kosovo by russians.

UK shouldn't have gone into afghanistan to boost CIA's drugs supply and help US to invade iraq for oil or to make israel feel much safer.

India, Pakistan and kashmir is a totally different issue.Both are using proxies to do each other over.

Spain ,i don't really have much about knowledge about that.But will look into it.

Don't forget that there are two sides to every coin.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:52 AM
reply to post by merkava

Look it up, there's plenty of resources out there.
But I betcha you are trolling for a fight with me... I don't take that bait, sorry.
Have a nice day.

Back to the topic.
This muslim shooter, using his religious beliefs killed a number of Americans. This is a time of mourning. Those on this thread to incite, divert, apologize is offensive to Americans.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:55 AM
reply to post by phoneyid

Well we finally agree on something, Obama is favoring the muslims. But this isn't the thread for that.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:07 AM

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by merkava

Look it up, there's plenty of resources out there.
But I betcha you are trolling for a fight with me... I don't take that bait,

I know there are plenty of biased 'resources' which have been debunked by Islamic scholars.

I just thought you might have had some unique evidence proving the point that islam allows killing of non-muslims.I mean you did study islam for 40 years right?

This muslim shooter, using his religious beliefs killed a number of Americans.

We know whose trolling.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:43 AM
reply to post by Hemisphere

Here is what you don't get my friend. The problem is that all of these texts are written in Stone. The Jews can't change the Old Testament because there is no mechanism for it. The Old Testament is put forth as the word of G-d, dictated by G-d. No human has the authority or the mechanism to change what G-d is alleged to have dictated. In part because if a human did have the authority to rewrite, edit what G-d said then the premise that is taken on faith that G-d wrote it goes out the window. It would become apparent through that action to edit that G-d didn't write it and that man wrote it and the whole basis of faith-based religion is then shattered.

The New Testament written by Rome supposedly based on the Old Testament that G-d is purported and assumed to have dictated added passages by a collection of disciples of Jesus. Jesus who claimed to be the Son of G-d and was accepted as the Son of G-d by the Christians who would then adopt the teachings he shared as a Son of G-d with his disciples whose letters and writings are all believed to have come from Jesus or visions that they had as disciples in Jesus’ inner circle given to them by G-d. In other words during that brief window an opportunity existed (though probably entirely manufactured) to through a plausible set of circumstances alter and add to the original Hebrew Texts in an authoritative way that could be put forth as coming from G-d.

Still even so it took centuries to convince people that these additional passages were legitimate and legitimately the word of G-d including forcing people to accept it as being the word of G-d through violence like inquisitions and killing people for heresy if they refused to believe it was the word of G-d directly from G-d.

Today in fact is the anniversary of the Stockholm Blood Bath were 70 Swedish Nobles were executed for heresy by the Danes using an army of mercenaries on Rome's behalf after the Swedish Nobles rebelled against the Swedish Monarch who was an arch-bishop of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

Though Christians today who were born into what is a widely accepted religion tend to downplay the incredible violence and death that was needed to get people to adopt Christianity the reality is it took incredible violence and death to get people to adopt Christianity and these altered Old Testament teachings and additions.

The reality is though still to this day the Jews themselves reject all of the New Testament because they don't believe Jesus was the Son of G-d but a heretic and that the disciples who later wrote these additional passages and modifications to the Old Testament were heretics too.

Now since the Holocaust Jews and Christians have been closely aligned but the truth of the matter is that for thousands of years Jews were violently discriminated against and often murdered in cold blood in horrendous ways for rejecting Christ and these additional passages as illegitimate and not the actual word or G-d.

While the Jews have for the most part remained passive in this protest it is a testament to their own conviction that many willingly and stoically accepted death rather than adopt the principals of Christianity.

So in reality this brief window created by Justinian a Roman Emperor to alter the word of G-d and added to it, only had credence with people moving forward who had not already been taught through Judaism to accept the Old Testament as the true word of G-d based on the sheer faith alone that it was actually G-d who dictated what was in it. The Jews in part rejected the New Testament because they don't believe the people who created and wrote it were actually in communication with G-d.

Basically the New Testament was forced onto people who worshiped different G-d’s the other existing pagan G-d’s but could not be forced upon the Jews who would not and could not accept that G-d legitimately dictated it.

The alliance that exists between Jews the original source of the Religion and Christians one stepped removed from that source is one of politics and in reality fairly recent politics. It is not based on a shared belief in how to worship the G-d that they share, but is based on overlooking and downplaying the difference for political expedience and to create an alliance that serves Israel well as it seeks to maintain and ensure an existence in a land that is primarily hostile to it's existence by the twice removed Muslims. Even then though in reality that is more about the politics of how Israel sprang back into existence and at what cost and to whom than it is based on the religious differences, even though the religious differences are often highlighted by Jews and Christians in regards to Islam as a means for keeping the alliance between Jews and Christians in tact.

The Jews themselves in texts like the Talmud which was simply compiled over a length of time by Jewish Elders and Rabbis debating and then deciding what Jewish Law should be in regards to what G-d wants in their estimation actually have Jesus and Mary burning in a special portion of Hell just for them and all non-Jews considered to he inhuman animals and chattel.

The Jews as an organized religion downplay that in large part because promoting it vigorously would in fact highlight the differences the numerically inferior Jews have with the numerically superior Christians.
That would not serve the Jews well who in fact do need the protection of the numerically superior Christians to bolster their own inferior numbers against Islam whose members numerically are superior to Christians and Jews added together. So instead of about 1.2 billion Christians aligned with and protecting 20 million Jews it would be the Jews having to defend as well as promote their belief that the word of G-d only truly appears in the Old Testament and the Law should be as they have written in the Talmud against 1.2 billion Christians and 1.6 billion Muslims.

The reality is that Israel's survival depends on maintaining and trying to keep a dominant position despite it's inferior numbers in it's alliance of expedience with Christianity as there is no way no matter how clever or determined 20 million people scattered about the world and only 3-4 million Jews in Israel could defend their relatively small parcel of land against what in theory could be 2.8 billion people in a combined Muslim and Christian alliance.

Though I disagree with Zionist politics and their constant efforts to influence the U.S. Government to ensure that alliance I can see and understand politically why they are compelled to.

It is important to understand it is a marriage of convenience as Christians have a long and bloody track record of persecuting and murdering Jews for religious and non-religious reasons alike for century after century.

Because the religion for Hebrews, Muslims and Christians is all based entirely on faith since G-d does not interact in traditional human ways that allow people to believe it is actually G-d speaking it becomes virtually impossible to change these texts without people actually seeing G-d directly at play in how that is done.

Rome and the Pope has long been the main source of interpretation of the Bible when it comes to specifying vaguely written and often conflictingly written passages for political purposes. Things like abortion and the death penalty and other issues that can affect the popularity of the religion and whether people are sinning or not can be clarified by the Pope who issues edicts and laws in how these things are to be interpreted.

This in part is what led to the Protestant movement and the rise of different sects of Christianity that are based on basically differing opinions of what vague and conflicting passages in the New Testament really mean. In part this is done for politics and in part it’s done so people who in one sect of Christianity are viewed to be living in constant sin in regards to these vaguer and conflicting passages, being considered to not be living in sin to the different branch of Christianity that the heads of those church organizations interpret more fairly for people who want to live in a sinless state even though other Christians consider it to be a sin depending on what the organizational hierarchy makes these vague and conflicting passages officially to mean precisely what the branch of that religion then adopts.

That can’t be done though in relation to passages that are clear and no conflict appears elsewhere in the texts calling them into question.

The Book of Mormon is considered to be yet another Testament and addition to the Old Testament and New Testament that most Christians and all Jews reject as it is put forward as the word of G-d as dictated to the Church of the Latter Day Saint’s founder Joseph Smith.

Once again Mormons have at times been heavily persecuted including cold blooded murder and theft of their possessions because neither Jews nor other Christians believe that Joseph Smith actually communicated with G-d but is likewise a heretic.

So what we see time and time again is people’s varying reluctance to believe anyone has directly communicated with the G-d that they all share and believe in. That the disagreements in what G-d meant lead to splintering the religion into different sects for political purposes and to avoid Hell and gain absolution through a group that will share that conflicting interpretation or belief are very much in play by all the religions.

(Continued Below)

[edit on 8/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:45 AM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

(Continued from above)

Islam one more step removed by Christianity is based in part on both the Old and New Testament as Muslims believe in the same G-d as Jews and Christians but reject like the Jews that Jesus is the son of G-d but unlike the Jews that he was not a heretic but a Holy Prophet whose teachings as put forth by his disciples are accepted as having come from G-d but that Mohamed who came a few centuries after Christ was also a prophet in direct communication with G-d. They believe his teachings to have been the FINAL word on what G-d wants and expects of people until such time as G-d appears or another person can prove to them universally that they are a prophet in direct contact with G-d.

Jews, Christians, Mormons and Muslims alike all have prescribed ways that the priestly class ultimately determines if someone is genuinely in communication with G-d. Should you be found to pulling someone’s leg in that attempt, well let’s just say the consequences are deadly. Amazingly and that’s the whole problem with an entirely faith based religion with a non-interactive, non-visible in the flesh G-d is that no one who is in these religions actually believe anyone who claims to have seen G-d or been in direct clear, two way communication with G-d.

When the texts are clear they can’t be rewritten by man simply for political acceptance. Ultimately the Mormons had to abandon the practice of polygamy to gain state hood in Utah for protection in numbers purpose when they were being persecuted as heretics and blasphemers. Still to this day the Jack Mormons illegally practice Polygamy and consider themselves the only true followers of G-d’s wishes put forward by Joseph Smith as someone they accept is a legitimate prophet of G-d. Over the last century and a half Mormons have managed to gain more acceptance but as Mitt Romney’s candidacy for President displayed there is a lot of mistrust and fear by other Christians in just what Mormonism really is.

The Sunni branch of Islam basically sprang up as a different branch to move away from the compulsive act of converting all Infidels or murdering them if they don’t. The Shia branch through it’s Imams long ago made fatwa that dismiss the need of converting all non-Muslims to the Islamic faith but just like the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Book of Mormon and the Quran only a prophet who is accepted legally as a prophet can rewrite the texts.

It is true that various Imams at times will make fatwa for their Mosque’s or branch’s followers including some violent ones regarding how to deal with political situations regarding non-Muslims. They do this in the same fashion that the Pope does this with Catholics when he issues edicts in regards to what G-d wants. Just as non-Roman Catholics reject these the same is true in Islam where people who aren’t a member of that Mosque or branch reject these things as well.

The whole universal concept of faith based religion and all these books being dictated by G-d through a human make it impossible for them to change without raising a very real doubt that none of them or substantial parts of all them weren’t actually dictated by G-d.

All three major branches of Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in the same G-d and basically the only thing all three agree on is the Ten Commandments, the rest of it is one huge deadly argument with the blood on everyone’s hands.

I myself consider them all to be tools for political manipulation and divide and conquer warfare. Yet well over half the world’s population believes in this same G-d entirely based on faith that this G-d exists, and arguing over every other aspect of what G-d wants.

It’s like being a little pregnant, you either are pregnant or you are not. Each branch considers all the bloodshed and divisions that lead to bloodshed to be the other branches fault and not their own, and each branch is responsible for the murders and exterminations of hundreds of millions of non-believers at various points in history.

There is no such thing as freedom in religion, here in the United States you are free to pick your religion friend. No Catholic Priest is ever going to say, Catholicism isn’t right for you try being a Jew, and no Rabi is going to say Judaism isn’t right for you try being a Hindu, and no Mormon is going to say Mormonism isn’t right for you trying being a Muslim, and no Muslim is ever going to say Islam is not right for you try being a Buddhist.

It’s a heck of a mess, a bloody and violent one, based on so much paranoia, fear, false premises and lack of understanding and intolerance between the sects it’s not funny it’s deadly.

What you would like to see happen isn’t possible because all 2.9 billion people who follow this G-d and Worship him really believe that it’s G-d who wrote what they try to practice. Very few people in that 2.9 billion even get close to actually following their branches scriptures as they are put forth. All 2.9 billion argue with one another what G-d really meant and wants.

Personally I feel the only thing that will solve it is all 2.9 billion people trading in their books for puppies. Dogs don’t communicate well either but at least they are loyal and true and are physically right there with you.

People lack the courage to deal with this mess. It’s a problem that everyone just adds to the problem by imagining their solution is the only one that will solve it and that just leads to more arguments and death.

Those of you taught to operate on faith alone will dismiss all of what I just said and it will go in one ear and out the other. It is what it is, and what I just described to you my friend is what it is.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 12:06 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You are completely right in asserting that the Jews, Christians and Mulims are basically the same. They are all about the same god or as I like to see it ufo. If we are going to keep religion somebody really needs to get the absolute heads of all of the sects together, sort out a common belief system that suitsand in the process save the western world. Come on religious heads of all these people, get in a room together and see how you are all looking up at the same God in the heavens, maybe then you messiah will descend

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 12:08 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

It’s a heck of a mess, a bloody and violent one, based on so much paranoia, fear, false premises and lack of understanding and intolerance between the sects it’s not funny it’s deadly.

This is so true...

Being slightly philosophical, If all three stopped and looked at the similarities and not the differences we would have a much more peaceful world. However in the present situation it's a difference of perspective.

Many in the ME see the fight against the US/West as a holy war. The US/West on the other hand are after natural resources and so is not a war against Islam. Many millions of Muslims live in the EU/US.

The Issues between Israel and the Islamic world are based on religious and ideological differences.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by SLAYER69]

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 12:41 PM
reply to post by SLAYER69

Slayer my friend I don't have a solution for this mess, I wish I did. I respect everyone's right to believe what they choose to believe.

I genuinely worry that this argument is going to lead to another world war.

I genuinely worry that Israel will be destoryed in the process, and that most Christians and Muslims and most of the Jews outside of Israel will be killed in the conflict.

I genuinely believe a Chinese like form of Communism/Capitalism and a one world government will be promoted and accepted in the aftermath.

There are people who want to blame it all on the Jews, people who want to blame it all on the Christians, and people who want to blame it all on Muslims.

And that is in large part the problem.

People hae an inherent need to make themselves legitimate by making it someone else's fault entirely and no fault of their own.

I don't have a way to overcome that and tragically denying ignorance often isn't about learning to not be ignorant but simply denying that you are ignorant by the strength of numbers to bolster the ignorance in the argument one come's to believe to avoid any responsibility or a need to change on their own behalf.

Israel and Palestinians should both have the right to exist. No one can agree on how they can though most of all Israel and the Palestinians.

People of all religions should have the right to believe in them and practice them but people of all religions basically believe that every other religion is wrong in what they believe and how they practice it.

As someone of no religion who is agnostic I don't even have a clue as to how religious tollerance can be adopted by people who are religious and have no tollerance for any other religion but their own, unless it's an economic or political marraige of convenience.

So many millions of innocent people have been killed and enslaved over the centuries by Jews, Christians and Muslims alike and just like politics, it's always well Bush did it too, or that was then, not now, without ever wanting to consider how what happened then factors into what's happening now.

The more I know Slayer the less I understand.

All I understand for sure is I don't want to be a bigot, a murderer or intollerant of others and that in stressing that to many whose sides I am not choosing because I refuse to choose a side, in their eyes I become a bigot and intollerant and a potential murderer becaue I am refusing to accept their own bigoted and intollerant version of the truth.

Sadly with half the planet arguing over what a G-d said that actually none of them believe will communicate with anyone in a legitimate two way interactive fashion, there is literally no where to run or hide to escape the conflict that literally worsens every day because of growing bigotry and intollerance and people desperately trying to formulate solutions that always include them not being the least little bit culpable or responsible for the problem.

It it were kids having this argument we would send them to their rooms and insist they take a time out.

I do not know how to extradite us from this mess Slayer.

I do not have a solution.

Ultimately all I can do is speak against what I am sure is not going to be a solution, when it's obvious that those attempted solutions contain and espous bigotry, intollerance or murder.

It really is a hell of a mess, and the sad truth is that if in fact this Major did do what he did entirely for religious purposes, it's a mess getting worse not better.

It takes two to tango though and I refuse to believe each involved Religion is not responsible in some way.

At least in the Old Roman Empire religious tollerance was emraced and accepted. People actually looked to their G-ds to defeat one another, not to defeat one another on their G-ds behalf!

People who want to serve the Lord as their Lord being their Master have a huge problem in that their Master is just not very communicative.

In the BDSM lifestyle where people are volunatarilly Masters and slaves for lifestyle and sexual pruposes Masters have the responsibility of communicating what they want to those who serve them, inspecting what the inspect and rewaring and disciplining based on the results of whether those expectations are met.

Bad Masters who don't do that end up with bad slaves or no slaves.

In these religions where everyone wants to serve the Lord it's really just mass chaos of everyone trying to figure out how to and arguing over it.

I truly think those who want to serve need a new Master but once again the fact that the whole concept is based upon faith in something that they can't directly communicate with and interact with in precise and universally accepted scientific ways just compounds the problem.

In the mean time the whole concept of faith is being exploited for politics by the governments who have long used people's faiths as a means to govern them and govern them poorly.

Most extremism is born out of poverty, and far too many Governments especially Islamic ones give the people little of the collective wealth in return and rely on the people's faith in the Deity to maintain order.

Ultimately all the problems are in fact social economic ones with the people tricked into abandoning social and economic solutions based on an instilled faith in a non-interactive deity who left many things up to vague and conflicting statements.

The governments and the rich exploit this for economic gain and social status and power, and leave the people with the spiritual crumbs to subsitidize the lack of material wealth and comfor and social status they are robbed of in this fashion.

It's a catch 22 in my humble opinion, a box, and a box meant to trap people into looking to the heavens for solutions and blaming those who looked to the heavens in different ways for different things as being responsible for the social and economic problems because G-d is punishing them instead of the reality of man is exploiting them.

I wish I had a solution to this mess Slayer, oh how I wish I had a solution.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 01:16 PM

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You are completely right in asserting that the Jews, Christians and Mulims are basically the same. They are all about the same god or as I like to see it ufo. If we are going to keep religion somebody really needs to get the absolute heads of all of the sects together, sort out a common belief system that suitsand in the process save the western world. Come on religious heads of all these people, get in a room together and see how you are all looking up at the same God in the heavens, maybe then you messiah will descend

It's a nice thought but ultimately there are two huge challenges one is the fact that most of these religions exist as political and financial entitities and not just spiritual ones.

Israel is a nation, and a religion (Judaism) and an, ethnic race.
Israel is perhaps the most difficult part of this equation because it mixes three elements instead of one or two.

The Vatican or Holy See is the wealthiest single land owner in the world and very few politicians the world over once elected to their nation's highest office don't end up making a pilgrimage to the Vatican in short order for the Pope's blessings because in large part of the incredible material wealth the Vatican owns and controls.

Mormons for instance more or less have their own State within the United States and control quite a bit of wealth too.

The various denominations of Christianity all have different political and social agendas and control large portions of wealth themselves as well as other critical roles.

For instance the 7th Day Adventists known for their supreme neutrality are often the only people who can get vital supplies and mail in and out of hotly contested war zones like Somalia and previously Sarejevo.

The Saudi Government has huge power and influence over the entire Islamic world because it controls the Holy places of Mecca and Medina.

Many of the Islamic Regimes keep the wealth of there sometimes incredible petrol reserves in a few hands and keep the masses in line through religion as it's put forth and widely adhered to through things like Sharia Law.

All of these religious institutions have political and economic agendas tha widely vary and many use them as tools of governance.

Even if you could get these various institutions to reconcile their differences the laity in these sects have taken on a life in their own in the extent of the faith that they will put into them.

Many in the laity of these sects would reject any attempt to change the doctrine as being some supreme evil force out to tempt them, and would make it all about sticking to their faith on faith for fear that not sticking with their faith as they always have would put their mortal soul in jeapordy.

In reality it would likely take being able to scientifically demonstrate with certainty what happens to a person after death in a truly believable way for them to abandon or radically alter these faiths.

Nice thought, I don't see logistically how it could happen though.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 01:18 PM
reply to post by ARNOMANNN

The best punishment for him would be life without parole. Executing him will make him a martyr.

posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 01:24 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Well Proto my friend, I hope the history of the world wasn't for my benefit alone. We have been through this before and I am well aware of most of what you've just laid out. You are mostly preaching to the choir with me, pardon the turn of phase. The line you might have glossed over in my post was "There's nothing like hijacking your oppressor's book of myths, adding a few "inspired" passages and turning it back on them as a guerrilla warfare manual." And the key word was myths. Myth as in "without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation". Myth as in "imaginary or fictitious".

I agree Rome hijacked the Jewish myth and used Christianity to both undermine the Jews who were always a thorn in their side as well as render newly made Christians into more submissive subjects. “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” Brilliant! Who but a Roman or Roman sympathizer such as Josephus would write such a thing?

What was Caesar's was anything tangible and what was God's was only what was left, the hoped for and imagined. "You can keep your soul and all the invisible crap! You'll get your just rewards in your next life, hand over the cash! Oh, and love us even if we are your enemies, you wouldn't want to go to hell for hating us or harming us!" And so they chose slavery in this life with the promise of paradise. That's how this scam works and Mohammed worked his own version.

There's a lot that's been written regarding who actually wrote what and although a fascinating historical mystery, it's all deception no matter Josephus, Saul, the Pisos, Titus or whomever was the author. There's a reason there are so few Jews and fewer practicing Jews left, they've mostly given up the myth. These are smart people. A few hangers on? Sure, but most just barely maintain membership in the club but don't attend the meetings. Does anyone disagree with this? Does the name Madoff ring a bell? How could one Jew do this to others? Easy, he had no fear of God. What would his Rabbi do? Throw him out of Temple? Oy vey, what a horror! And so Jewish when convenient, secular Jews. Jews would argue this but the orthodox don't visit conspiracy websites and the secular don't care.

I know Christians will argue this, it undermines their deal too. I know it, 50 years of practicing and now a former Catholic. Been there, done that. I think most people know down inside and are afraid what will happen if they give up the pretense. A lifetime of brainwashing is tough to overcome. Islam is in it's infancy with much improved self defensive rhetoric and so very few Muslims are giving up their faith. It hurts when they do that! One could imagine that the Abrahamic faiths have evolved and the Islamic mutation is extremely vigorous. It's immune system is much improved.

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