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At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

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posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by CuriousSkeptic
 


Maybe he just went nuts? It happens.

I worry about the fear, loathing and paranoia on all sides that this event will cause. And I extend my sympathies to the victims and their families.

Explain all the other incidents of Islamic violence in the US. Did all those guys just go a little nuts too?




posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by mmiichael
Most people today are exposed to a synthesis of their religion and mass culture, higher education, personal choices in reading and socializing.

... in the West. It's different for Islam because of hegemony and lack of those choices.
Further, there is no desire for Islam to mix with the West to synthesize.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 07:19 AM
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Here's the problem with the media and those who can't see this crime for what it is, people "reflexively deny and ignore these conclusions because they are completely sold out to the idea that Muslims, as non-white, non-Christian, non-Westerners, cannot possibly be anything but victims.

So for all those who understand this crime tell all your friends that muslims are not victims, and we have zero tolerance for behavior that includes Sharia wants and violence bu muslims.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by JJay55
Explain all the other incidents of Islamic violence in the US. Did all those guys just go a little nuts too?


So what you are saying is that every act of violence carried out in the USA by non-Islamic people is religiously motivated then?

Every single one - and it must be so - because you are incapable of seperating out causes and attributing them to anything other than religion.

Given that the mean homicide rate in the USA in 2005 was 6.1 per 100,000, thats an awful lot of religious nutters, isn't it?

Figures from : Gun Violence in the United States



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by JJay55
Explain all the other incidents of Islamic violence in the US. Did all those guys just go a little nuts too?


So what you are saying is that every act of violence carried out in the USA by non-Islamic people is religiously motivated then?

Every single one - and it must be so - because you are incapable of seperating out causes and attributing them to anything other than religion.

Given that the mean homicide rate in the USA in 2005 was 6.1 per 100,000, thats an awful lot of religious nutters, isn't it?

Figures from : Gun Violence in the United States

No, I'm not comparing, you are. I'm saying that Islamic crimes are happening and increasing in the US and we should have zero tolerance.
Period. Not hard to understand.
Again, we can't possibly accept that muslims are capable of religious crime, we only seem to see them as victims and oh the poor peaceful muslims?
We must nip these crimes now. We must have zero tolerance and hold muslims responsible. They cannot get a "get out of jail free" card because they are poor peaceful muslim victims.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by earlywatcher
I apologize if this issue has already been raised. I've dropped in the thread now and then but not read every page.

the shooter was a doctor. a psychiatrist trained at great expense by the military. surely he wasn't being deployed to FIGHT. he was going to afghanistan to provide medical services. so why all the concern about being expected to kill fellow muslims?


I think that's an important point EW. I think this man and many Muslims don't want to be viewed by other Muslims as infidels. Even if he was not active in battle while there he would be viewed as intimate to what other Americans were doing. I think and I'm guessing he thought that Muslims there have an "either you're with us or you're against us" view. He would be viewed as a traitor to Islam. That's not the case here and he didn't think he would be deployed. He had skated through unscathed until now. The reality set in for him that it was time to pay the piper and he chose poorly.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Hemisphere

Originally posted by earlywatcher
I apologize if this issue has already been raised. I've dropped in the thread now and then but not read every page.

the shooter was a doctor. a psychiatrist trained at great expense by the military. surely he wasn't being deployed to FIGHT. he was going to afghanistan to provide medical services. so why all the concern about being expected to kill fellow muslims?


I think that's an important point EW. I think this man and many Muslims don't want to be viewed by other Muslims as infidels. Even if he was not active in battle while there he would be viewed as intimate to what other Americans were doing. I think and I'm guessing he thought that Muslims there have an "either you're with us or you're against us" view. He would be viewed as a traitor to Islam. That's not the case here and he didn't think he would be deployed. He had skated through unscathed until now. The reality set in for him that it was time to pay the piper and he chose poorly.

Indeed. And the same reason there was a plot to fly a plan into Gitmo. When muslims cooperate with the infidel US then they are sinners. The penalty for this sin is death. They can only repent and prove to Islam that they are faithful.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

I sure hope you guys are joking!

Meanwhile, soldiers lay dead in Texas, and opportunists are climbing the bodies like soapboxes in order to promote even MORE violence against innocents.


Of course I'm joking. Mocking someones attempt to claim this terrible mass murder was set up by the government for PR and marketing of hostilities in the Middlle East.

I am equally appalled by the vulture-like response of so many. An opportunity to feed on carrion with tirades on whoever they choose to demonize.

The dead probably all aren't even buried yet. IF you're American mourning would be a more appropriate response.

[edit: update] Hasan is awake and has been capable of talking since taken off ventilators Saturday.

Maybe not in a talkative mood.


Mike

[edit on 9-11-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by Libertygal
 

Indeed.
VT killer, Cho Seung Hui, Chinese muslim. Hui is a word used to designate the devout Muslims of China. Since China has no state religion, it recognizes only ethnicities and their respective provinces. Hui is an Islamic ethnic group and similarly chinese speaking peoples surnames typically indicate family origin based in province and Muslims traditionally to indicate religion. Cho had two muslim neighbor in his dorm suite. But yes, the media, intelligenta and the typical American remained politically correct on this one.
What are we afraid of? Why can't we call a spade a spade? Are we going to offend someone? Meanwhile there will be shooting incidents in barracks, malls, schools, the Beltway, and other common public locations until we are all terrorized.
Great, welcome to the Caliphate.



[edit on 8-11-2009 by JJay55]


Stop spreading lies and hatred to fit in with your false propaganda, you're beginning to sound like a broken record!!

The VT guy and killer 'Seung-hui Cho' was NOT an Chinese Muslim!!

Seung-hui Cho was born January 18, 1984 in Seoul, South Korea

And he came from a South Korean Christian family!

And BTW! his parents had strong Christian faith and were members of a local Christian church in Virginia and Cho himself was raised as a member of the Christian religion.


although he "railed against his parents' strong Christian faith." According to one report, Cho Seung-hui had left a note in his dormitory which contains a rant against Christianity and "rich kids." He stated that "Thanks to you I died like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and defenseless people."


en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 9-11-2009 by Chevalerous]



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 09:04 AM
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"U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News."

Now the US government is forced to do something about these muslims who continue to terrorize us. It would be nice if the muslim community would help in this effort. But alas, they will join the other anti-Americans and cry victim.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by Chevalerous
 

save it for another thread. You are off topic because you took a post out of context.
Have a nice day.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 09:45 AM
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No! you should stop spreading lies and propaganda which are not correct, which can lead to that good people believe in those lies!

You clearly said that the VT killer was a Chinese muslim - which is not true!

Please keep the news coming regarding this awful event that sadly happened, but please skip the hardcore hatred and spin!

You are now simply spamming this thread with hate and are whipping up more hatred! (which unfortunately are your only purpose) - stop please!


[edit on 9-11-2009 by Chevalerous]



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by Chevalerous
 


Have a nice day Mr Chevalerous.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by ChrisF231
 


Not necessarily. The FBI is involved due to the nature of the attack and trying to make sure that there are no civilian involvement. This is a homeland security matter.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by JJay55
Again, we can't possibly accept that muslims are capable of religious crime, we only seem to see them as victims and oh the poor peaceful muslims?
We must nip these crimes now. We must have zero tolerance and hold muslims responsible. They cannot get a "get out of jail free" card because they are poor peaceful muslim victims.


Thing is, the only person saying that violent muslims are "poor peaceful muslims" here is you, in your attempts to project the idea.

A nutjob is a nutjob, regardless of faith. Can't you see that?

All your generalisations about muslims are simply designed to foster hate it seems and you are using the PC card as some kind of strawman to project your obvious dislike for Islamic people.

No one has suggested anyone gets a "get out of jail free card" - except you.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by JJay55
 



They cannot get a "get out of jail free" card because they are poor peaceful muslim victims.


Who's getting a get out of jail free card? The shooter won't. Don't you ever get tired of casting the blame on the Muslim community as a whole? Blame an entire group of people for the actions of a minority.

Seems to me that your preemptively blaming the Muslim community, as a whole, for any and all actions, past and future.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by JJay55
Again, we can't possibly accept that muslims are capable of religious crime, we only seem to see them as victims and oh the poor peaceful muslims?
We must nip these crimes now. We must have zero tolerance and hold muslims responsible. They cannot get a "get out of jail free" card because they are poor peaceful muslim victims.


Thing is, the only person saying that violent muslims are "poor peaceful muslims" here is you, in your attempts to project the idea.

A nutjob is a nutjob, regardless of faith. Can't you see that?

All your generalisations about muslims are simply designed to foster hate it seems and you are using the PC card as some kind of strawman to project your obvious dislike for Islamic people.

No one has suggested anyone gets a "get out of jail free card" - except you.


Explain this:
www.jihadwatch.org...
It's a video of muslims celebrating the incident at Fort Hood.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by JJay55
 



They cannot get a "get out of jail free" card because they are poor peaceful muslim victims.


Who's getting a get out of jail free card? The shooter won't. Don't you ever get tired of casting the blame on the Muslim community as a whole? Blame an entire group of people for the actions of a minority.

Seems to me that your preemptively blaming the Muslim community, as a whole, for any and all actions, past and future.

Explain this video of the muslim communitity celebrating this brave muslim
www.jihadwatch.org...



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by JJay55
 



They cannot get a "get out of jail free" card because they are poor peaceful muslim victims.


Who's getting a get out of jail free card? The shooter won't. Don't you ever get tired of casting the blame on the Muslim community as a whole? Blame an entire group of people for the actions of a minority.

Seems to me that your preemptively blaming the Muslim community, as a whole, for any and all actions, past and future.


I think it's worth noting that a good number of the staunchest pro-Israel supporters here on ATS have come out in strong numbers to speak and caution against blaming the entire Muslim community for the despicable actions of one man.

That says a lot in and of itself that there is probably more political danger in trying to vilify all Muslims for the actions of a bad few.

Ultimately most Americans are against persecution and stereotypes of all kinds.

Psychology being what it is, probably the best way to garner added support for Muslims in general is through attacking them all in general.

Ultimately the people who are arguing strenuously for unequal rights for Muslims and persecuting them solely based on their religion are probably doing that cause more harm than good through such an unreasonable and aggressive approach.

Jihadists themselves are so potentially frightening in nature because of their own intense willingness to make themselves a martyr to a cause.

Ultimately it's a cause most people including Muslims reject so their martyrdom doesn't have much effect or impact politically on Muslims or non-Muslims.

Blanket persecution of all Muslims would in essence make them all martyrs to a cause both Muslims and even non-Muslims would eventually find sympathy for.

America was founded in large part to prevent Religious persecution. Arguing to Americans in favor of Religious persecution is likely to backfire.

So in an odd way people who are so vehement about wanting to persecute Muslims are probably doing Muslims a favor by arguing for it and their own cause and fears a disservice by favoring blatant persecution and discrimination.


[edit on 9/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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"I have no pity for the victims of Fort Hood"
www.jihadwatch.org...



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