The Three Jahovah's of the Bible

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

According to Targ. Yer. to Gen. ii. 7, God took dust from the holy place (as "the center of the earth"; compare Pirḳe R. Eliezer xi., xx.) and the four parts of the world, mingling it with the water of all the seas, and made him red, black, and white (probably more correctly Pirḳe R. El. xi. and Chronicle of Jerahmeel, vi. 7: "White, black, red, and green—bones and sinews white; intestines black; blood red; skin of body or liver green"); compare Philo, "Creation of the World," xlvii.; Abulfeda, "Historia Ante-Islámica."

www.jewishencyclopedia.com...

And in Hebrew Adam also mean red dirt or red clay.

So there's no mistaking, I took the liberty to post Strong's bible dictionary definition of the greek word for "spirit" and it turns out, we're both right. In this sense, we need to look at the context of the passage in quesiton though.


4151
pneuma
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
from pnew - pneo 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare yuch - psuche 5590.

reply to post by Locoman8


I refuse the idea that two so differing concepts as soul and spirit is the same thing. If you want to believe that, fair enough, but I see it clearly in my own language, Norwegian where spirit is ånd, and breath is ånde. Our soul is a physical thing. Angels have stellar souls, ie. born of fire. Most humans have a whithering memory as their souls. I see my soul as whatever I have contributed with in this world somehow, and I have these quantum universes as my soul....

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Although I disagree with Locoman on many fronts, I happen to agree with him on this so far.
You said our soul is a physical thing. How can your soul be a physical thing when it has no material attributes? It has no weight, no color. no size, nothing.




[edit on 24-12-2009 by oliveoil]

After Guttenberg printed the Bible for the masses...
then there were enough people who were learned enough to read...

it became a common-cause at least among the religiously inclined to debate or amplify to the nth degree on just how many Angels could dance on the head-of-a-pin !

this thread reminds me of such
and it also reinforces my decided opinion that this thing we call 'Christianity' is ever-so-much what is later identified as
'Mystery Babylon'


merry xmas

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


I never said that the soul and spirit were the same thing. I am simply implying that in this one verse of the bible, instead of spirit meaning an angelic being, it means the mind. Thus you have, Mind, body, and life. which was Spirit, body, and soul in the verses.

I have been reading this thread and have to say there are many opinions on this subject.

To olive oil: I read your post that you claim was off the top of your head, and I am sorry but I do not believe that entire post was off the top of your head.

To Locoman8: I agree with some of what you say, but I disagree with the soul body and spirit post and this is why. In the bible we are instructed to renew our minds. That is what we must do. In regards to spirit, God places a new spirit within us. That is what God does.

To those who refuse to spell the word God:
If God is LOVE as stated in the bible. What reason would one have to not spell a word that refers to God? I understand the Jewish people not wanting to pronounce God's name. My question is what logical reasoning does one use to refuse to spell a word that describes who you are talking about?

If one is true about that perspective, and God is Love, then I should expect to see you spell love like this : L_ve

If that makes no sense to spell love like that, then it also directly applies to the word God.

Merry Christmas!!!!

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Mohandas (Mahatma) Gandhi

Spirit, Body, and Soul

Body to me is not an issue, I believe everyone can agree what the body is, flesh bones and blood. As far as spirit goes, lets examine some phrases that include the word spirit.

Spirit of God
Spirit of peace
Spirit of fear
Evil spirit

I see the spirit as something that directly influences the soul.

Now we have the soul left. We are told not to fear someone who can destroy the body, but to fear someone who can destroy the soul. They were referring to God.

What part of you do you want to live on? I want my mind, will and emotions to live on. This is who I am collectively. And this is what I believe to be the soul.

Merry Christmas!!!

reply to post by Orrfyreus

To olive oil: I read your post that you claim was off the top of your head, and I am sorry but I do not believe that entire post was off the top of your head.

I did have my own source of information( a bunch of papers on my desk) however, I was unsure of how correct I was. That's why I didn't quote.As you can see the other poster confirmed.

Although I believe the Comma to be an important factor in proving the trinity, I chose to leave it out because I don't really need it to prove my case.

olive oil

Thank you for the clarification. If you notice I never commented on the accuracy or the validity of your position, only that the post was not off the top of your head.

Using your own information (papers on your desk) is not off the top of your head.

Again thank you for the clarification and have a Merry Christmas

I remember when I first got involved with a church, I learned its basic beliefs. One of these was the "holy trinity." This was so important that they had to point it out as one of their core beliefs. What I wonder is, why does it even matter? I still to this day don't know why people argue about it. How about this? Pray to Jesus, the holy spirit, and God all at the same time. Cover your bases. Better to be safe than sorry. Then you're safe either way, whether the alimighty is one, two, or three beings. The alpha and the omega can't fault you for trying. Merry Christmas and God bless. I'm going to live life on the edge and just say God. I'm just going to throw caution to the wind.

Preach the Gospel where ever you go!!!

As a last resort, you are permitted to use words.

Ivory wire

Actually the instruction to those in Christ, is to pray to the Father, no one else, and do so in the Name of Jesus.

I personally do not believe in the trinity doctrine. There is no record of Jesus talking about the trinity that i am aware of. But I also do not change my behavior towards other human beings because someone else does believe in it.

The ROYAL LAW to me is more important than any doctrine out there.

I have a riddle for you. If Jesus was baptized and received the holy spirit, was God inside of God? Why does God need to have God inside of Him?

The Holy Spirit is referenced as the HELPER. Jesus said I must go so the HELPER can come.

I don't see God as a Helper, but the Supervisor.

You have a Merry Christmas

JESUS IS THE WORD! The bible is a book.

reply to post by Orrfyreus

To Locoman8: I agree with some of what you say, but I disagree with the soul body and spirit post and this is why. In the bible we are instructed to renew our minds. That is what we must do. In regards to spirit, God places a new spirit within us. That is what God does.

Reread what I have said before. My reasoning with the word "spirit" meaning "mind" is only in the sense of this one verse:

"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:23).


It basically explains how Paul wished for all christains, their entire being including the mind, body, and vitality of life, to be preserved blameless at the coming of the Lord, Jesus Christ. All other instances.... for the most part.... refer to the spirit as the Spirit of God, or spirit of angels, or spirit of demons.... all concious beings yet in this one little verse, "spirit" is not used as a separate concious being, but a component for the brain to make the mind work. That's it. That's all I'm saying. No need to get on my case. It's an argument against the trinity doctrine. Someone told me that as God has three parts with the "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" so do humans have three parts with their "spirit, soul and body." I disagree with his reasoning which is why I went this route. Peace and safety to you all on this pagan festival of saturnalia/yule/sol invictus/bruhmalia/etc. Don't let the nordic god Odin trick you with presents. God bless.

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

Although I disagree with Locoman on many fronts, I happen to agree with him on this so far.
You said our soul is a physical thing. How can your soul be a physical thing when it has no material attributes? It has no weight, no color. no size, nothing.

Yes, a soul is part physical. It can be destroyed, bought and sold. Your soul is what links you to God. For instance. The soul of angel Gabriel is Orion, the great giant with his belt of Ufaz gold as seen in the winter sky.

The spirit animates the soul, as seen in Genesis 2 when God animates Adam's soul using breath/spirit.

There is a similar story about Jesju in the apocrypha somewhere, where Jesju shapes little birds from clay and animates them with breath so they fly off.

[edit on 25/12/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

Although I disagree with Locoman on many fronts, I happen to agree with him on this so far.
You said our soul is a physical thing. How can your soul be a physical thing when it has no material attributes? It has no weight, no color. no size, nothing.

Yes, a soul is part physical. It can be destroyed, bought and sold. Your soul is what links you to God. For instance. The soul of angel Gabriel is Orion, the great giant with his belt of Ufaz gold as seen in the winter sky.

The spirit animates the soul, as seen in Genesis 2 when God animates Adam's soul using breath/spirit.

There is a similar story about Jesju in the apocrypha somewhere, where Jesju shapes little birds from clay and animates them with breath so they fly off.

[edit on 25/12/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

This clears things up a little I guess.Let me get this straight, Man has a spirit,soul and a body. The spirit is the breath from God which animates the soul(mans being) which controls his body right?

Someone had mentioned that a mans mind was his spirit.Wouldn't a mans mind be part of his body thus being physical and not spiritual?

[edit on 25-12-2009 by oliveoil]

reply to post by oliveoil


I have to question your belief that the bible confirms anything.

It is my belief that the bible was written by a lot of different men, who all probably lied (well, isn't that what people do all the time?)

Originally posted by Orrfyreus
olive oil

Thank you for the clarification. If you notice I never commented on the accuracy or the validity of your position, only that the post was not off the top of your head.

Using your own information (papers on your desk) is not off the top of your head.

Again thank you for the clarification and have a Merry Christmas

Not to go back into it again but that post was done in a hurry and was a carryover from a discussion that Joe and I were having on another thread. And yes, it was off the top of my head because I did not have all the information (as you can see I was incorrect on a few things)I usually have when I talk about the Comma.As a matter of fact, the reason for this thread was because of the same reason, the Comma.I have used this information so many times I should have it memorized like I do for the Bible.
Besides, I don't know why you feel like that's so important anyway?, Its not like I'm making myself out to be smarter than I really am.

Peace to you and have a wonderful Christmas.

Originally posted by TaraLou
reply to post by oliveoil

 

I have to question your belief that the bible confirms anything.

It is my belief that the bible was written by a lot of different men, who all probably lied (well, isn't that what people do all the time?)

Yes the Bible was written by man, And yes man lies. However, if this statement is true, then it must be a lie.

Point is that it is true, man does lie.However, man also tells the truth. Just on this alone, wouldn't it make sense to examine the bible for truth?

reply to post by oliveoil


My position is this - I am a firm and fervent believer in Jesus Christ.

I am a believer in God and the devil.

I am not a believer in churches (manmade, manipulative) or the bible.