Clinton calls Israeli concessions "unprecedented"

Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by prof-rabbit

 

You sound a bit paranoid.

Why does there have to be a hidden agenda?

No, just the facts, as for the "hidden agenda" just what do you come to ATS for? the site is all about hidden agendas, conspiracy and the like.

As for the megaphone software you can see the top five in realtime here.
ws.giyus.org...

Reality: Bites your bum when you least expect it....

reply to post by prof-rabbit


I don't really get the point you're trying to make.

People are using the internet as an advocacy tool - shock horror! - why is this relevant to the discussion?

Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by prof-rabbit

 

I don't really get the point you're trying to make.

People are using the internet as an advocacy tool - shock horror! - why is this relevant to the discussion?

Others would call it propaganda, something Israel was good at until Gaza.

Bullet holes in babies make for very bad press.

reply to post by prof-rabbit


You're right, how dare Israel's supporters organise themselves into political activism? How dare they exercise free speech and democracy, especially when it's a cause you don't support?

Lazyninja, I don't get this...

1- Israel has the most powerful military in the region. If used at full force(which is extremely rare; I think the last time was '73 not sure), it can completely devastate an entire country within a week or two.

2- According to everyones' fantasy here, Israel loves to kill arabs and will stop at nothing to kill them. They will kill arabs with every chance they get.

3- Israel completely disregards what the world community thinks, as evident with the Goldstone report. They will continue to do whatever they want.

If all this is true, then how is Gaza City still standing?

Originally posted by DJAghetto
Lazyninja, I don't get this...

1- Israel has the most powerful military in the region. If used at full force(which is extremely rare; I think the last time was '73 not sure), it can completely devastate an entire country within a week or two.

2- According to everyones' fantasy here, Israel loves to kill arabs and will stop at nothing to kill them. They will kill arabs with every chance they get.

3- Israel completely disregards what the world community thinks, as evident with the Goldstone report. They will continue to do whatever they want.

If all this is true, then how is Gaza City still standing?

Same ways the jews, polish and other people were standing after genocide by the german nazis. If we go by what you say it would also mean that German Nazis wrent killing people infact they loved jews, polls etc that's why they still live today.

Originally posted by December_Rain

Same ways the jews, polish and other people were standing after genocide by the german nazis. If we go by what you say it would also mean that German Nazis wrent killing people infact they loved jews, polls etc that's why they still live today.

lol Can you really compare the Nazi government, which exterminated roughly 5,000 people on a daily basis, to the Israeli government?

Israel doesn't have a "final solution". The only ethnic cleansing that happened in Gaza was when the Israeli military removed all the Jews living in the Gaza Strip a few years ago.

Israel doesn't even have a military presence in Gaza now. They don't want to be there anyway. As long as rockets don't fly into Israel, the military won't go into Gaza.

Gaza has its own government(Hamas) with its own law enforcement. They are ultimately responsible for their economy, education, and most importantly its citizens. If they launch rockets into Israel, their citizens will not benefit from it. If they invest in their citizens instead (education, sanitation, sports, etc.), then their citizens will greatly benefit.

Originally posted by DJAghetto

Originally posted by December_Rain

Same ways the jews, polish and other people were standing after genocide by the german nazis. If we go by what you say it would also mean that German Nazis wrent killing people infact they loved jews, polls etc that's why they still live today.

lol Can you really compare the Nazi government, which exterminated roughly 5,000 people on a daily basis, to the Israeli government?

Israel doesn't have a "final solution". The only ethnic cleansing that happened in Gaza was when the Israeli military removed all the Jews living in the Gaza Strip a few years ago.

Israel doesn't even have a military presence in Gaza now. They don't want to be there anyway. As long as rockets don't fly into Israel, the military won't go into Gaza.

Gaza has its own government(Hamas) with its own law enforcement. They are ultimately responsible for their economy, education, and most importantly its citizens. If they launch rockets into Israel, their citizens will not benefit from it. If they invest in their citizens instead (education, sanitation, sports, etc.), then their citizens will greatly benefit.

You got that right pal, Israel is the new face of Nazi Germany i.e, Nazi Israel. I wont go into detail explaining again and again but here is an thread which tells us the stark reality of how genocide is happening in 2009 :

1940 Nazi Germany=2009 Israel

There are several other threads which explain clearly why Israel is considered the new Nazi's by the majorty (people allover the world)...do a search. Oh and dont forget to go through the GoldStone Report which tells categorically that Israel committed War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity and can be prosecuted in International Court of Law same as the German Nazis were.

Originally posted by DJAghetto
Gaza has its own government(Hamas) with its own law enforcement. They are ultimately responsible for their economy, education, and most importantly its citizens.

Absurdity at it's peak. The whole place is an open prison, coasts sealed, food and medical supplies cut, humaneterian aid cut, releif organisations not allowed, walls erect noone allowed to go in or go out just like a big interminent camp aka Austwich where Israeli go from time to time to pour white phosphorous from air like Nazi Germans poured gas in the room. Beat anyone at wil, steal their lands, kill people while making jokes etc. The Holocast returns.

[edit on 11-11-2009 by December_Rain]

reply to post by mattpryor

I certainly did not accuse you of being a Nazi. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Except that

But his lunatic ideas still hold some sway, it seems...

Follower of Hitler would = Nazi methinks!

What I did say was that your statement that the Nazis supported Zionism is completely flawed and incorrect

No kidding? I said

Zionists were allies of them because they wanted Jews in Israel, and Nazis wanted Jews out! Not so much a 'friendly' thing but rather same desire, so why not work together?

They support zionISTS not zionISM, because both nazis and zionists had the same goal, get Jews out of Germany, they did not want a Jewish state, they never thought one would HAPPEN!

And the hundreds of thousands of survivors, who went to Israel because they had NOWHERE ELSE TO GO, having lost the family, friends, belongings, home, everything. I'm sure they're chuffed to bits about good old Adolf

And what about the hundreds of thousands of EUROPEANS who lost all their friends and family and home and belongings?! Where exactly did they have to go? Uh, same place as before!! We made do! And considering that there are still jews in europe I would say that some made do as well! Think logically man.

You don't like that I'm offended and call you up on it? Tough.

You're offended? So you are a Jewish Zionist then. Not that I had doubts. By the way I could care less if you are offended, it took me years of offense before learning that nothing is offensive if you dont let it.
I am sure the neo-nazis are also offended at zionists being compared to them!

Originally posted by December_Rain
You got that right pal, Israel is the new face of Nazi Germany i.e, Nazi Israel. I wont go into detail explaining again and again but here is an thread which tells us the stark reality of how genocide is happening in 2009 :

1940 Nazi Germany=2009 Israel

There are several other threads which explain clearly why Israel is considered the new Nazi's by the majorty (people allover the world)...do a search. Oh and dont forget to go through the GoldStone Report which tells categorically that Israel committed War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity and can be prosecuted in International Court of Law same as the German Nazis were.

... just like a big interminent camp aka Austwich where Israeli go from time to time to pour white phosphorous from air like Nazi Germans poured gas in the room. Beat anyone at wil, steal their lands, kill people while making jokes etc. The Holocast returns.

The Goldstone Report only talks about what happened in the conflict. It doesn't state the cause of the conflict. If Hamas didn't launch rockets into Israel, this whole conflict would've never happened.

As for white phosphorous, the Hamas militants were operating in civilian buildings like cowards instead of confronting the IDF on the battlefield. The use of white phosphorous to clear them out is fair play.

Nazism and Israel... Let's compare the two:

Nazi Germany- Fascist government, German is the official language, killed roughly 11 million people in a span of about 6 years

Israel- Democratic government, Hebrew and Arabic are the official languages, killed about 100,000 people over the course of 60+ years

Clearly, there's a big difference between the two governments.

According to your logical, the Muslim population inside Israel(which is about 25% of the total population) should've been carried away and put in concentration camps instead of living normal lives like everybody else.

And since you mentioned Nazis, can you please list for me all the concentration camps in Israel( especially the gas chambers)?

Absurdity at it's peak.

Can you please explain to me what's absurd about the Hamas government?

open prison

Please show me pics of Israeli prison guards currently inside Gaza. Israeli Border Police does not count, since they only operate at the border crossing on the Israeli side. I want pics of Israeli guards that are actually inside Gaza.

coasts sealed

This is not true. Palestinian fishermen are allowed to fish out at sea.

food and medical supplies cut, humaneterian aid cut, releif organisations not allowed

This statement is mind-boggling. Israel has allowed Humanitarian aid into the Strip, especially during Operation Cast Lead.

walls erect noone allowed to go in or go out

Israel has a right to close its borders, especially when its neighbor is run by a group of terrorists that have sworn to the destruction of Israel.

Also, can you please explain to me why Egypt, one of Israel's biggest critics, have also sealed off their border with the Gaza Strip? You seem to be completely ignorant of the fact that Hamas shares a border with Egypt, too.




Also, what you saw in Operation Cast Lead is a new Israeli tactic called "Zayin Ba'Tachat". It pretty much goes as follows: "If you launch rockets into my country or try to harm any of my citizens(Christian, Muslim, or Jew) in any way, I will take my d*ck and shove it up your ass! If you have a problem with that, then please find a sweet location packed with civilians and blow yourself up. Or, you can simply leave us alone."

It's one crazy tactic, but it's effective...

Originally posted by DJAghetto
lol Can you really compare the Nazi government, which exterminated roughly 5,000 people on a daily basis, to the Israeli government?

Principle not numbers count.

Originally posted by DJAghetto

Israel doesn't even have a military presence in Gaza now. They don't want to be there anyway. As long as rockets don't fly into Israel, the military won't go into Gaza.

Lets use your criteria in a different light, "As long as a few extremists shoot useless rockets into Israel the IDF will continue to shoot children"

Originally posted by DJAghetto
Gaza has its own government(Hamas) with its own law enforcement.

Targeted by the IDF during the Gaza conflict.

Originally posted by DJAghetto
They are ultimately responsible for their economy, education, and most importantly its citizens. If they launch rockets into Israel, their citizens will not benefit from it.

Collective punishment.

Originally posted by DJAghetto
If they invest in their citizens instead (education, sanitation, sports, etc.), then their citizens will greatly benefit.

Israel does not recognize Hamas as a government, you are considering all of the people in Gaza as combatants.



[edit on 12-11-2009 by prof-rabbit]

Originally posted by DJAghetto

open prison

Please show me pics of Israeli prison guards currently inside Gaza. Israeli Border Police does not count, since they only operate at the border crossing on the Israeli side. I want pics of Israeli guards that are actually inside Gaza.

A wall complete with guard towers and snipers doth constitute a prison..




[edit on 12-11-2009 by prof-rabbit]

Originally posted by DJAghetto

coasts sealed

This is not true. Palestinian fishermen are allowed to fish out at sea.

Really?

Zionists are Marxist Bolshevik Communists.
There is no connection to Nazis except in opposition.
Hilary spports Communism.

reply to post by DJAghetto


I will say one more thing on this thread, then I'm done with it.

The saddest thing about this whole situation is that mainstream / moderate support for Palestinian independence / self-determination continues to be hijacked by Israel haters and extremists. It's an interesting and tragic phenomenon.

There are rational, realistic people who understand the history and the current situation and would like to work towards a lasting and just agreement between the Palestinians and the Israeli people, and an end to the cycle of sectarian violence, but their voice gets drowned out by the incessant, irrational tide of hatred.

This seems to be the principal reason why peace has not been achieved as yet. There are a lot of people in Israel and around the world that would like to help the Palestinians - charity organisations, philanthropists, NGOs and political figures - who, unfortunately, get shouted down by the opinion bullies, haters and ill-informed people with a chip on their shoulder about authority who always, without fail, end up representing the Palestinian "support base".

The Israeli government and the vast majority of people within Israel would be very receptive to any agreement which is just and equitable for everyone in the region. Unfortunately it seems that that will never, ever happen as long as the "other side" of the debate is dominated by Israel-hating (and yes, quite often Jew-hating) propagandists.

Jews are not real Jews.
Zionism is the new Nazism.
Israel should be nuked.
Etc, etc.

It's pathetic. It's counter-productive. It will not achieve peace - just more bloody hatred.


[edit on 12-11-2009 by mattpryor]

reply to post by mattpryor


Nothing personal matt

As you walk away please, remember that there are few here that bring their reasoning to the table that truly hate Jewish folks.
Some may dislike them because they want what America and other Christian Nations have BUT are unwilling to assimilate and become a solid part of that country. Most are concerned that by Israel waving the nuclear flag all over the planet it could have dire consequences for all.
Most important I think is the death and destruction of the militaries of these countries in the name of Zionism. I think most Europeans including their previous and current colonies have been constantly trying to improve international relations. Israel and a lot of dual citizenship American/ Israelites have been counter productive in this process.
My wish as yours is,---is for a peaceful, meaningful co existence for all nations.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by mattpryor

 

Nothing personal matt
I think most Europeans including their previous and current colonies have been constantly trying to improve international relations. Israel and a lot of dual citizenship American/ Israelites have been counter productive in this process.
My wish as yours is,---is for a peaceful, meaningful co existence for all nations.

And so say we all.

Originally posted by prof-rabbit

Originally posted by DJAghetto

coasts sealed

This is not true. Palestinian fishermen are allowed to fish out at sea.

Really?

That is one of the most insane videos I have ever seen.

What explanation is there for IDF to shoot up and threaten people going about their daily business ?

Its quite shocking, and the Israeli apologists on here would have us beleive that its the Israeli critics that have got the problem. I don't think so.

Originally posted by mattpryor
Jews are not real Jews.
Zionism is the new Nazism.
Israel should be nuked.
Etc, etc.
[edit on 12-11-2009 by mattpryor]

Jews are not real Jews. = Donno and don't care
Zionism is the new Nazism = zionism if its a religion dont mean sh@t like all other religions..Israeli govt. is who is Nazi because they follow and act on Nazi principles.
Israel should be nuked = You bet they should be if they nuke anyone, they should be nuked.
Etc, etc. = Etc., etc.

Originally posted by DJAghetto
lol Can you really compare the Nazi government, which exterminated roughly 5,000 people on a daily basis, to the Israeli government?

Principle not numbers count.

If the principle is to kill as many people as possible, then Israel is clearly doing a terrible job at it. By the way, since Israel is suppose to be the new Nazi government(according to you), can you please list me all the concentration camps (especially the gas chambers) that are in Israel. I would like to check them out for myself. Can you also explain to me why 25% of Israel's population, which is Muslim, are living normal lives like the rest of the Western World instead of being in concentration camps?

Originally posted by DJAghetto

Israel doesn't even have a military presence in Gaza now. They don't want to be there anyway. As long as rockets don't fly into Israel, the military won't go into Gaza.

Lets use your criteria in a different light, "As long as a few extremists shoot useless rockets into Israel the IDF will continue to shoot children"

I liked the spin you put on this one, but it's still extremely inaccurate. The "few extremists" you speak of is actually the Hamas militia. Since it's a government branch, launching rockets into another country is considered an act/declaration of war. We all know where that leads us to...

As for "useless rockets", 2 things:
1- If they really are useless, what's the point of launching them?
2- "If you throw a grenade at me and miss, I'm going to kill you before you throw another one." Basically if person A shows a strong intention to kill/harm person B, person B will do everything possible to eliminate that threat. This logic is extremely simple and natural.

Children being killed is one of the most unfortunate events that occur during a war. Unfortunately, there is no way to prevent this other than preventing a whole war all together. In the heat of the moment, the most unfortunate creatures can be caught in the crossfire. It's an unwanted reminder that war is war and it has no rules. If Hamas didn't provoke Israel, this war would've never happened.

Originally posted by DJAghetto
Gaza has its own government(Hamas) with its own law enforcement.

Targeted by the IDF during the Gaza conflict.

LOL Are you serious? Hamas militants were launching rockets into Israel. What did you expect Israel to do? Attack Armenia? Of course they were going to hit back at Hamas.

Originally posted by DJAghetto
They are ultimately responsible for their economy, education, and most importantly its citizens. If they launch rockets into Israel, their citizens will not benefit from it.

Collective punishment.

Of course it's collective punishment. After all, the Gazan citizens elected the terrorist group Hamas into power. What did they expect would happen? Peace and prosperity? LOL! Ever since Hamas came into power, life in the Strip has deteriorated.

Originally posted by DJAghetto
If they invest in their citizens instead (education, sanitation, sports, etc.), then their citizens will greatly benefit.

Israel does not recognize Hamas as a government, you are considering all of the people in Gaza as combatants.

Israel does recognize Hamas' authority in the Strip, even though the Hamas calls for Israel's destruction. I don't consider Gazan civilians to be combatants, only the law enforcement in Gaza and the Hamas militia. Do you consider all the people in Israel to be combatants?