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Clinton calls Israeli concessions "unprecedented"

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posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by prof-rabbit

Originally posted by DJAghetto


open prison


Please show me pics of Israeli prison guards currently inside Gaza. Israeli Border Police does not count, since they only operate at the border crossing on the Israeli side. I want pics of Israeli guards that are actually inside Gaza.



A wall complete with guard towers and snipers doth constitute a prison..




[edit on 12-11-2009 by prof-rabbit]


I specifically asked for pictures from Gaza.
Anyway, Bethlehem is not completely surrounded by a wall barrier. The wall is only on the Western side of the city, which is the Israel/West Bank border. The people waiting in line are at the border checkpoint. They commute to Israel everyday for work. The reporter mentions this in the video. I don't see how this constitutes a prison. Is Israel not allowed to protect its border?

[edit on 12-11-2009 by DJAghetto]




posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by prof-rabbit

Originally posted by DJAghetto

coasts sealed


This is not true. Palestinian fishermen are allowed to fish out at sea.


Really?





Yes. Really.

Palestinian fisherman are allowed to sail 3 nautical miles into sea. If they pass that mark, the Israeli Navy will intercept them and give a warning. If they ignore the warning, they will either be detained or fired upon.

This is not something new. It's been like this for years. The fishermen know the consequences and yet they still try to test the Navy...
This situation is retarded.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by DJAghetto

This is not something new. It's been like this for years. The fishermen know the consequences and yet they still try to test the Navy...
This situation is retarded.


You are right, it is retarded.

You can fish but risk being fired upon.
No aircraft in or out.
Concrete and razor wire.
Snipers.

And you complain about the Gazans getting angry?


[edit on 13-11-2009 by prof-rabbit]



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by DJAghetto
Palestinian fisherman are allowed to sail 3 nautical miles into sea. If they pass that mark, the Israeli Navy will intercept them and give a warning. If they ignore the warning, they will either be detained or fired upon.


1 to 3 miles, depends on your luck...-




posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 03:03 AM
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reply to post by finemanm
 


If a foreign country began setting up military checkpoints and building walls throughout your state, how would you feel? If the citizens of that foreign country showed up at your doorstep to tell you to get out within 12 hours because your house no longer belongs to you, how would you feel? Imagine those settlers were continuing to drive your neighbors from their homes and building walls right through the middle of their property, and then they claimed to be interested in peace.

Under international law, a blockade is considered an act of war. Unfortunately, Israel is not subject to international law and has never been held accountable for the human rights violations they have committed over the years. The people in Gaza can't even get cement to rebuild their homes. They are denied sufficient clean drinking water as well. They are living in a ghetto - plain and simple.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by prof-rabbit

Originally posted by DJAghetto

This is not something new. It's been like this for years. The fishermen know the consequences and yet they still try to test the Navy...
This situation is retarded.


You are right, it is retarded.

You can fish but risk being fired upon.
No aircraft in or out.
Concrete and razor wire.
Snipers.

And you complain about the Gazans getting angry?


[edit on 13-11-2009 by prof-rabbit]


Well, as long as you try to risk it by passing the 3 mile mark, you will be shot upon or detained. I already covered this.

You should ask the Egyptian government why they don't allow aircraft in and out of Gaza.

Can you please tell me where all the "concrete and razor wire" and the snipers are located in Gaza?

Of course the Gazans will be angry! They elected a terrorist group into power and it only made things worse. Hopefully, they will vote for Fatah in the next election. That would greatly ease the restrictions by Israel.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by DJAghetto
Well, as long as you try to risk it by passing the 3 mile mark, you will be shot upon or detained. I already covered this.

You should ask the Egyptian government why they don't allow aircraft in and out of Gaza.

Can you please tell me where all the "concrete and razor wire" and the snipers are located in Gaza?

Of course the Gazans will be angry! They elected a terrorist group into power and it only made things worse. Hopefully, they will vote for Fatah in the next election. That would greatly ease the restrictions by Israel.


Allow aircrafts in and out of Gaza? You seriously are joking, where the people dont have water, electricity you ar asking why airplanes and airports are not there? Does Israel have left any place in Gaza or infrastructure to build a food factory forget a airport.

As far as where the snipers and barbed wires are concerned, it's not new:-

















There are thousands more, not even for a second I think you dont already know this, ofcourse you do but you are trying to potray it as it's not there.

As for Hamas it's a Democratic govt. elected by people of Gaza who are also the policemen. If they are not better they are atleast not worst as IDF soldiers. Hopefully by that time, the International Security Council will start the trail of Israeli war crimes and prosecute each one of them to full extent same like Nazis. That surely will release much tension from the whole world and not just Gaza.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by December_Rain]

[edit on 14-11-2009 by December_Rain]

[edit on 14-11-2009 by December_Rain]

[edit on 14-11-2009 by December_Rain]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by andrewh7
If a foreign country began setting up military checkpoints and building walls throughout your state, how would you feel? If the citizens of that foreign country showed up at your doorstep to tell you to get out within 12 hours because your house no longer belongs to you, how would you feel? Imagine those settlers were continuing to drive your neighbors from their homes and building walls right through the middle of their property, and then they claimed to be interested in peace.

Under international law, a blockade is considered an act of war. Unfortunately, Israel is not subject to international law and has never been held accountable for the human rights violations they have committed over the years. The people in Gaza can't even get cement to rebuild their homes. They are denied sufficient clean drinking water as well. They are living in a ghetto - plain and simple.


Foreign country ?? You do realize that the West Bank is actually Israeli territory right and that within the original British mandate for the new State of Israel that was originally decided upon ? Today, Israel has effectively put up a self governing territory inside a state!
Israel has clearly demarcated residential zones across the West Bank and has clearly informed the Palestinian Authority that there should be no encroachment of Palestinians close to surveillance towers and border posts but those who disobey these clearly defined rules and build on unauthorized land are inviting eviction from their homes. Isnt this natural in all law abiding countries that residences be built only in designated residential zones ? Can you build your house in the middle of an army base or on the freeway ? Imagine how you would feel if day in and day out, year after year there were people blowing up the buses your children go to school in and bomb your restaurants, schools and places of business ? What other recourse do the Israelis have but to keep the Palestinians separate and prevent them from causing harm to innocent Israeli civilians ?

A blockade would be an act of war, IF it were committed by one nation onto another! There is no Palestinian nation! It is merely a self governing territory inside Israel and a state has every right to control the movement of people and goods within its borders depending upon the security implications of their movement. The people of Gaza are interested in Cement not to build their homes but rather to build bunkers and solidify tunnels to smuggle weapons and ammunition across from Egypt, rather than food and medicines, that they claim they need! The are living in a ghetto because they have no interest in improving their situation through anything other than violence. The have a misguided notion and belief that by destroying all that Israeli citizens have created in their communities will bring the same prosperity to them as well! They real ghetto they live in is not their physical surroundings but their mental attitude.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain

Originally posted by DJAghetto
Well, as long as you try to risk it by passing the 3 mile mark, you will be shot upon or detained. I already covered this.

You should ask the Egyptian government why they don't allow aircraft in and out of Gaza.

Can you please tell me where all the "concrete and razor wire" and the snipers are located in Gaza?

Of course the Gazans will be angry! They elected a terrorist group into power and it only made things worse. Hopefully, they will vote for Fatah in the next election. That would greatly ease the restrictions by Israel.


Allow aircrafts in and out of Gaza? You seriously are joking, where the people dont have water, electricity you ar asking why airplanes and airports are not there? Does Israel have left any place in Gaza or infrastructure to build a food factory forget a airport.


They dont have place for food factories but apparently they have plenty of place to build ammunition depots, weapons factories, bomb factories, massive tunnel networks and terrorist training facilities !!

With so much "infrastructure" I too find it difficult for them to build an airport or helipad !
Maybe if sympathizers like you and Iran donate some fighter aircraft and attack helicopters they might suddenly have the "place" to build an airfield!!




Originally posted by December_Rain
As for Hamas it's a Democratic govt. elected by people of Gaza who are also the policemen. If they are not better they are atleast not worst as IDF soldiers. Hopefully by that time, the International Security Council will start the trail of Israeli war crimes and prosecute each one of them to full extent same like Nazis. That surely will release much tension from the whole world and not just Gaza.


EVen Hitler was elected democratically and look at his contributions to Germany or to the world ?? Hamas despite having won the elections has no uniform support across the Palestinains because they are terrorists and thugs who follow a philosophy of mindless violence and no real rewards.

If you want to talk about IDF soldiers so called "war crimes", then who is going to prosecute the Palestinians for their war crimes ? Who is going to prosecute the Palestinians for Intifada 1, 2 and 3 ?? When Germany lost Wolr War 1 they paid massive reparations to the victors ? How is Palestine going to pay Israel for allt he deaths and sufferings that have been faced by Israelis ? Will equal number of Palestinians be put to death as the number of Israeli citizens killed by suicide bombers and rocket attacks etc ?? What about all those who have supported the terrorists like Hamas ? Who is going to prosecute them ??
I would like to see the Security Council first prosecute Hamas and the Gazans for all the rocket attacks including reperations for all the damage done and lives lost before you start talking about IDF soldiers and their so called war-crimes!



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101

They dont have place for food factories but apparently they have plenty of place to build ammunition depots, weapons factories, bomb factories, massive tunnel networks and terrorist training facilities !!

With so much "infrastructure" I too find it difficult for them to build an airport or helipad !
Maybe if sympathizers like you and Iran donate some fighter aircraft and attack helicopters they might suddenly have the "place" to build an airfield!!


As long as US & UK keep donating arms ammunition and money and Israel keep begging for funds from them, I am sure no amount of help will be sufficient for Palestinians. No I do not think they have plenty of place to make any ammunitions now if it was so Israel would not have been able to commit genocide and get away with it so easily.



EVen Hitler was elected democratically and look at his contributions to Germany or to the world ?? Hamas despite having won the elections has no uniform support across the Palestinains because they are terrorists and thugs who follow a philosophy of mindless violence and no real rewards.

Exactly even Hitler was doing that and unfortunately now Israel is. Israeli govt. is the terrorist here as clearly stated by the UN Goldstone report. It's the Israeli army and itt's govt. that committed war crimes and crimes against humanity same like Nazis did.


If you want to talk about IDF soldiers so called "war crimes", then who is going to prosecute the Palestinians for their war crimes ? Who is going to prosecute the Palestinians for Intifada 1, 2 and 3 ?? When Germany lost Wolr War 1 they paid massive reparations to the victors ? How is Palestine going to pay Israel for allt he deaths and sufferings that have been faced by Israelis ? Will equal number of Palestinians be put to death as the number of Israeli citizens killed by suicide bombers and rocket attacks etc ?? What about all those who have supported the terrorists like Hamas ? Who is going to prosecute them ??
I would like to see the Security Council first prosecute Hamas and the Gazans for all the rocket attacks including reperations for all the damage done and lives lost before you start talking about IDF soldiers and their so called war-crimes!

The Hamas will also be prosecuted by UN Secruity Council for their war crimes and so will be the Israeli govt. and it's army who participitated in the genocide.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by mattpryor

Sorry for the late reply on this one, been too busy lately.



In the UN general assembly there's an automatic bloc that supports any resolution or motion against Israel which comprises of the 57 OIC countries and about 40 others (including champions of civilization like Venezuela). This makes up the vast majority of countries that voted in favour of referring the Goldstone report to the security council.


I don't see why getting the Goldstone report heard is a motion against Israel, the investigation covered both sides of this conflict remember? Or well it would have done but Israel refused to participate.



The UN Human Rights Council has been accused by many, including Kofi Annan, of focusing its attentions almost exclusively on Israel. Doesn't this seem a little odd?


Well then you're saying there is a conspiracy against Israel? Either the criticism is justified, or its a big Arab conspiracy that the whole world is too "wooly liberal" and stupid to realize.


On 29 November 2006, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan criticised the Human Rights Council for "disproportionate focus on violations by Israel" while neglecting other parts of the world such as Darfur, which had what he termed "graver" crises


The situation in Darfur has been given the same treatment as Israel; criticism and nothing else. The difference is that the Arab militias responsible did not complain about being criticized because they don't care about our opinions.

If they had complained or somehow tried to justify what they did, there would have been a response from the UN and the media. But because they just said nothing, everyone just pretty much stopped talking about it. It's not forgotten, it's just not an "important" subject. kind of sad really. But that's human nature.

Israel should learn from that example. If she does not want negative attention, she really should just learn to keep quiet. Too many people try and defend what Israel has done, and they are just contributing to an endless cycle.

Take ATS as an example. An "anti-Israel" thread pops up, not one of those ranting ones, just one that reports something statistical, or something which can't be denied, like the Israeli soldiers speaking out. The people who would defend Israel don't post in those threads, and the thread divebombs off the first page because it's basically just what I call a consensus thread. Everybody is in agreement, and the thread is not "interesting" because of that.



Think for a moment about how you feel about Israel. You're disgusted by them, you're angry about them. Right? Well imagine how people working within UNRWA feel, who've been working for years to try to help Gazans with their schooling etc. Of course they're going to think the worst about Israel and the IDF when Israel starts a war against Hamas. You just had to watch that Guinness guy interviewed by the Beeb to see how much disdain he had for Israel, salivating with righteous fury about the IDF bombing a UN school (which they didn't, by the way). The point is, not that they're not entitled to feel that way, but they are not neutral. How can they be?

Do you see my point?


I can see what you're saying but I can't see your point. What I mean is, how can you expect anyone to be neutral? People no matter who, have an understanding of right and wrong. If they see something and decide it is wrong, that does not mean the person is biased, it just means they are normal for forming an opinion.

Biased would be defending something because it served your best interests. Vested interests is what concerns the Israeli media, government and army.

There's a saying; "Well they would say that wouldn't they" That applies perfectly to the Israeli government, but you can't say the same thing about neutral organizations as they have no agenda against Israel.


majority of well intentioned, liberal humanitarians


I love how you say that. It makes us all seem like slightly daft people with no grasp of the situation at all, and are just criticizing Israel because it's the cool thing to do.


regard Israel in a negative light (which makes those of us that don't seem like monsters).


Yes it makes you seem like monsters. You're trying to justify innocent people getting killed, because some terrorists killed some other innocent people. It's just like trying to justify the Iraq war because of 9/11.

I regard terrorists in a negative light. That's something that Israeli apologists (not directed specifically at you) always forget. They think that because we criticize Israel that we somehow support Arab terrorists.

I think terrorists are monsters with a shocking lack of disregard for human life. They view us as animals, and killing us is not a crime. But what shocks me more than that, is when a civilized UN member state acts in the same way. The slow encroachment of Israel onto Palestinian territory, has never been about defeating terrorism, or any kind of lofty idealism. It's just about taking land, knocking the damn houses down and killing the occupants so you can build Israeli homes; Zionism.



Here's my challenge to you: Find me one person within Amnesty International who has a good word to say about Israel. Do you think it's likely?


No I don't think it's likely. And for good reason.


Therefore, as an outside and objective observer, I think it's important to bare this in mind and remember that what the media and humanitarian organisations say isn't necessarily the truth.


How could the entire world be wrong? I'm still struggling with this concept no matter how much you explain to me that people are either biased for no good reason, or are just misinformed so much that they eventually form a negative opinion about Israel.


It may be what they believe is the truth, but remember there are about 8 million Israelis who will disagree, so shouldn't their opinion count as well?


Actually the opinions of the Israeli people is rarely heard. They speak out against their government so perhaps that is why. But even so, the opinions of those that are protecting their own interests will never be very valuable.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by Lazyninja]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
As long as US & UK keep donating arms ammunition and money and Israel keep begging for funds from them, I am sure no amount of help will be sufficient for Palestinians. No I do not think they have plenty of place to make any ammunitions now if it was so Israel would not have been able to commit genocide and get away with it so easily.

The only people who give any "money" to Israel are the people who trade with them for goods and services! The US Foreign Direct Military Aid is always facilitated through weapons sales. And it is in fact Israel that supports these Palestinians by giving them jobs, electricity, medicines etc because they are all useless semi-literate violent Arabs who's only skill is terrorism. And even that skill they are very poor at because even after 55 years they have achieved nothing.
You do not "think" that they places to make ammunition ?? Obviously you were sleeping when the Israeli towns were under attack with hundreds of rockets for weeks ! Or probably when the Hamas build weapons factories under the Gaza hospital ??
These facts are know to everybody who has read the news and was awake during the IDF police action against the terrorists Hamas and their supporters!
Commit Genocide?? Do you even understand the meaning of the word "genocide"?? If Israel had committed Genocide there would not be a single Gazan alive today! But to the contrary there are millions of Gazans who still continue to dig their tunnels and try to smuggle Iranians weapons through Egypt. Israel will have to go in once again and destroy those tunnels and their builders sometime in the future!

Originally posted by December_Rain
Exactly even Hitler was doing that and unfortunately now Israel is. Israeli govt. is the terrorist here as clearly stated by the UN Goldstone report. It's the Israeli army and itt's govt. that committed war crimes and crimes against humanity same like Nazis did.

Do you even know what Hitler did or do not really understand English ? Because Hitler captured and gassed millions, while the IDF took police action in response to Hamas attack on Israeli cities with rockets! Something that was completely justified and supported as Isreals right to defend itself from terrorists who attack civilians.
All the dead in Gaza are terrorists only. The women and children were also participating in terrorism by harboring terrorists and supporting their operations. They deaths were justified but unfortunate.


Originally posted by December_Rain
The Hamas will also be prosecuted by UN Secruity Council for their war crimes and so will be the Israeli govt. and it's army who participitated in the genocide.

Not only Hamas, but Fatah, the PLA, everybody who supported Hamas and all the people who's were active during the Intifada and in working with Arafat also. The whole of Gaza and Jerusalem should also be returned to Israel as compensation for all the rocket attacks, suicide bombings, cafe bombings, violence and attacks against Jewish citizens of Israel. Also, the immediate release of the IDF solder Galid Shalit. First let all these people be prosecuted for their crimes and these areas returned under Israeli control then we can talk about any alleged "crimes" of the IDF in Gaza - A territory that Israel GAVE to the Palestinians in good faith.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:47 PM
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Honestly, do these JDL guys even post in topics about aliens? Try and blend in guys.

Edit: I somehow wrote JDF (Jewish defense force) instead of JDL.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by Lazyninja]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by yellowcard
 


Texas back to Mexico: Well, everybody is happy there and there is no genocide/Holocaust on kids/Women...

rockets shooting: Zionist can STOP the rockets even before fire them...but they want that like us did in 9/11

why does the border even matter? Well, no there is no border yet and see the proportion of Zionist/Palestine land proportion!!!

two cultures that are virtually identical: Pls don't say that! Have you ever heard any genocide or mass killing done by Muslims? give them break they have more # to deal with.

fighting over something that doesn't even matter? Well that you re though but land is HOME and nothing better than HOME.

They will be no peace there till on day, a very special one, we not be there to live it.

There is NO REASON TO KILL INECENT PPL, if you find one, you're a killer



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by Lazyninja
Honestly, do these JDL guys even post in topics about aliens? Try and blend in guys.

Edit: I somehow wrote JDF (Jewish defense force) instead of JDL.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by Lazyninja]


JDL ?? Who is from JDL ??

Anyway, I hate the idiotic topics about aliens! A bunch of people discussion imaginary events and unsubstantiated rumor ad-infinitum is NOT appealing in the least. So are most of the "conspiracy" topics that go on for 30-40 pages about stuff I wouldn't care to know.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101
The only people who give any "money" to Israel are the people who trade with them for goods and services! The US Foreign Direct Military Aid is always facilitated through weapons sales.

Really no Aid, am sure most of know the difference between the giver and taker.

Source: U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel
Without these aids, Israel wouldnt have been where it is today. It has no skill except asking for aids showing the holocast card.


And it is in fact Israel that supports these Palestinians by giving them jobs, electricity, medicines etc because they are all useless semi-literate violent Arabs who's only skill is terrorism. And even that skill they are very poor at because even after 55 years they have achieved nothing.

They are poor because Israel stole away everything they had starting with their land. They are semi literate because Israel bombarded not even the schools, fod storage but even the UN shelters. Israel bombarded the only power reactor in Gaza while refusing human aid releif agencies to enter and help anyone in Gaza. Not even letting any food, medical supplies in there.

You do not "think" that they places to make ammunition ?? Obviously you were sleeping when the Israeli towns were under attack with hundreds of rockets for weeks ! Or probably when the Hamas build weapons factories under the Gaza hospital ?? These facts are know to everybody who has read the news and was awake during the IDF police action against the terrorists Hamas and their supporters!

Is it because of these facts that now the International Commitee including Red Cross, UN, UN Security Council and the entire world barring US is saying Israel committed war crimes and during the siege asked immediately to stop them. People easily see through the farce Israel created and propogated through the media.



Commit Genocide?? Do you even understand the meaning of the word
"genocide"?? If Israel had committed Genocide there would not be a single Gazan alive today! But to the contrary there are millions of Gazans who still continue to dig their tunnels and try to smuggle Iranians weapons through Egypt. Israel will have to go in once again and destroy those tunnels and their builders sometime in the future!

Going by your definition of genocide, it would mean even Nazi Germans didnt commit genocide since there are still so many Jews, Polls alive today, isnt it so? So in other words your saying holocast did'nt happen and Israel fabricated a lie?
Yeh and your are justfying collective bombardings on thousands of civilians in retaliation of homemade rockets after they are enclosed in an open air prison and their coasts sealed. It is exactly the way the Nazis did with a minor difference, they did it in a room in Austwich which had a roof while Israel did it in open air.


Do you even know what Hitler did or do not really understand English ? Because Hitler captured and gassed millions, while the IDF took police action in response to Hamas attack on Israeli cities with rockets! Something that was completely justified and supported as Isreals right to defend itself from terrorists who attack civilians. All the dead in Gaza are terrorists only. The women and children were also participating in terrorism by harboring terrorists and supporting their operations. They deaths were justified but unfortunate.

Even Germany could blanket justify their their actions by merely saying so it is justified, but the world did'nt think so and neither does the world think so now. That is an absurd statement that all killed were only terrorist, and everyone knows that.


Not only Hamas, but Fatah, the PLA, everybody who supported Hamas and all the people who's were active during the Intifada and in working with Arafat also. The whole of Gaza and Jerusalem should also be returned to Israel as compensation for all the rocket attacks, suicide bombings, cafe bombings, violence and attacks against Jewish citizens of Israel. Also, the immediate release of the IDF solder Galid Shalit. First let all these people be prosecuted for their crimes and these areas returned under Israeli control then we can talk about any alleged "crimes" of the IDF in Gaza - A territory that Israel GAVE to the Palestinians in good faith.

Israel gave nothing but stole the land of Palestines & stole their lives. All they gave is an open air prison the fact which the ENTIRE International Commitee agrees too barring US. Israel was created on Palestine land after murdering palestinian people.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Lazyninja
Honestly, do these JDL guys even post in topics about aliens? Try and blend in guys.

Edit: I somehow wrote JDF (Jewish defense force) instead of JDL.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by Lazyninja]


I'm with you m8... it's becoming very tiresome.

They are like stuck records going over the same bs again and again.

What is it they say.... if you say something often enough folk will start to believe it.

Except in this case they just look more and more desparate.

Bottom line.... you cannot justify burning babies with phosphur ... no matter what.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
Really no Aid, am sure most of know the difference between the giver and taker.
Without these aids, Israel wouldnt have been where it is today. It has no skill except asking for aids showing the holocast card.

As you yourself have shown, most of the aid is military aid and as I've said already, military aid is always given in weapons sales. Not money! The Economic grants were given before 1996 during the height of the Palestinian terrorist movement under Arafat and supported by the Arab countries!

Also the actual amount of aid received, it is actually a very tiny portion of Israel's total economy and trade with the US which in 2007 was close $12 billion dollars while US aid in the same period to Israel was $5 billion total while total GDP was $200 billion dollars. So the total aid was just 2.5% of Israels GDP. And this was a period when Israel made a great sacrifice to appease the violent terrorists Hamas by trying to gift the Gaza strip to the Palestinians in an effort to build trust and make peace. But the violent terrorists Hamas started committing terrorism once again and betrayed the International Community, the UN and the Arab countries by waging terrorist acts against Israel promptly!

As to amount of Aid, Palestinians also got the same amount of aid in the beginning from the Arab states but they instead used the money to conduct terrorism and violence. Even today, the Palestinians state that produces NOTHING of any value and simply begs for money from all sides to continue terrorist actions while its people are neglected and they blame Israel for their own problem created due to their terrorist nature!


Overview of US Aid and Recent Developments
The level of U.S. assistance to the Palestinians—among the largest per capita recipients of foreign aid worldwide2—has fluctuated considerably since it was initiated following the establishment of limited Palestinian self-rule in the mid-1990s. Fluctuations have been particularly significant over the past three years—due mainly to the on-again, off-again role of Hamas within the Palestinian Authority (PA). Hamas is designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) by the U.S. State Department. After the 2006 Hamas victory in Palestinian Legislative Council elections, U.S.
assistance to the Palestinians was restructured and reduced. The United States halted direct foreign aid to the PA but continued providing humanitarian and project assistance to the Palestinian people through international and non-governmental organizations (NGOs). The ban on direct assistance continued during the brief tenure of a Hamas-led unity government (February to June 2007). During that time, U.S. policymakers demanded unsuccessfully that Hamas renounce, among other things, violence and its commitment to the destruction of the state of
Israel.
Subsequent events, however, altered the situation dramatically. In June 2007, Hamas forcibly took control of the Gaza Strip. PA President Mahmoud Abbas (the effective head of the Fatah party), calling the move a “coup,” dissolved the unity government and tasked the politically independent technocrat Salam Fayyad to serve as prime minister and organize a new PA
“caretaker” government in the West Bank. Within days, the United States lifted its economic and political embargo on the PA.
The Bush Administration and Congress then boosted U.S. aid levels in hopes of fostering an economic and security climate conducive to Palestinian statehood. The revival of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations for a final-status agreement in conjunction with the Annapolis Conference of November 2007 provided further impetus for U.S. economic support of the institutional and societal building blocks deemed crucial for Palestinian self-governance. The
Obama Administration has thus far advocated a similar approach. Following the outbreak of the 2008-2009 Gaza conflict between Israel and Hamas, the United States provided approximately $65 million in emergency U.S. humanitarian assistance for Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. These funds were channeled through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) and through international organizations such as UNRWA and the International Committee of the Red Cross. For a fuller description of these emergency contributions, please see CRS Report R40101, Israel and Hamas: Conflict in Gaza (2008-2009) ,coordinated by Jim Zanotti.

In March 2009, the Obama Administration pledged $900 million in U.S. assistance to the Palestinians to address both post-conflict humanitarian needs in Gaza and reform and development priorities in the West Bank. The enactment of the Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2009 (P.L. 111-32) on June 24, 2009 appropriated over $800 million toward the amount pledged
in March, putting total U.S. appropriations since January 2009 well past the amount pledged. P.L. 111-32 also included a provision that applies different conditions than those applied by previous FY2008 and FY2009 appropriations legislation to possible U.S. assistance to a Palestinian powersharing government that includes Hamas. For a fuller description of the pledge and subsequent appropriations, see “The $900 Million U.S. Pledge and the International Donors’ Effort” below. Congress is currently considering FY2010 appropriations legislation (H.R. 3081 and S. 1434) that
would provide an additional $500 million in bilateral assistance to the Palestinians.

In the year 2007 alone, the PA got $4.6 billion dollars pledged as assistance by various countries ALL over the world.
Source: US and International Aid to Palestinian Territories
In the year 2007, the PA was the third largest recipient of Official Development Assistance of any UN member!
Source

Originally posted by December_Rain
They are poor because Israel stole away everything they had starting with their land. They are semi literate because Israel bombarded not even the schools, fod storage but even the UN shelters.

How can Israel steal something the Palestinians never owned! That land belongs to Israel after it defeated all the Arab states in 1967!
When the Palestinians dont even spare Hospitals and Childrens schools from their terrorist enterprise, how can the IDF be blamed for Hamas using schools as weapons stores ?

Originally posted by December_Rain
Is it because of these facts that now the International Commitee including Red Cross, UN, UN Security Council and the entire world barring US is saying Israel committed war crimes and during the siege asked immediately to stop them. People easily see through the farce Israel created and propogated through the media.

You mean the report which even the Mahmoud Abbas rejected at first ? Also, the Security Council has not even discussed it but you claim it has already been accepted by the Security Council ??
The only farce created is that there was a "crime" commited when Israel defended itself from rocket attacks launched by terrorists in Gaza. They retaliated to stop attacks against civilians in Israel. Nobody sees that as a crime

Originally posted by December_Rain
Going by your definition of genocide, it would mean even Nazi Germans didnt commit genocide since there are still so many Jews, Polls alive today, isnt it so?

Its not my definition, it is a definition adopted by the whole world. The Nazi's tried to eradicate all Jews and almost achieved that objective with the Jews in Germany. However Israel have never tried to do that otherwise there would be no Gazans alive today! It doesnt mean there wouldn't be Palestinians elsewhere does it ? This is basic logic!

Originally posted by December_Rain
Yeh and your are justfying collective bombardings on thousands of civilians in retaliation of homemade rockets after they are enclosed in an open air prison and their coasts sealed.

Haven't the Gazan's collectively allowed Hamas to commit acts of terrorism ? Why should they be spared ? Did they elect in the terrorists in the first place to attack Israel ?? They asked Hamas to attack when they knew that that Israel would defend itself! They got what they deserve and Israel has every right to do it again if Hamas fires Rockets into Israel. It Gaza was such a bad "prison" why did the IDF have to forcibly evict Jews settled there?
Apparently, the Gazan's dont think it is good enough for them!

Originally posted by December_Rain
Even Germany could blanket justify their their actions by merely saying so it is justified, but the world did'nt think so and neither does the world think so now. That is an absurd statement that all killed were only terrorist, and everyone knows that.

The small difference between Germany and Palestine is that the Jews in Germany didnt fire rockets onto German homes and didn't blow themselves up in German schools! The Gazan's asked for terrorists to attack Israel when the voted for Hamas and when the IDF responds they think they are innocents! They are supporters of terrorists and as good as terrorists themselves! They deserve the same fate as terrorists!

Originally posted by December_Rain
Israel gave nothing but stole the land of Palestines & stole their lives. All they gave is an open air prison

WRONG. Palestine was created by Arabs on Jewish land that they stole and robbed! Today they act as if they own that land, which is not true at all. Israel gave them land which it has earned when it was attacked in 1967 and the Gazan's repaid them with rockets. Apparently, Gaza is such a great prison that Jewish settlers didnt want to leave it and were forced to move! If the Entire International communtiy agrees that Gaza is a prison, then they must want that because they encouraged Israel to leave Gaza as a prison



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by IAF101
The Gazan's asked for terrorists to attack Israel when the voted for Hamas and when the IDF responds they think they are innocents! They are supporters of terrorists and as good as terrorists themselves! They deserve the same fate as terrorists!


So is this where you try to justify the killing of children?



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by IAF101
As you yourself have shown, most of the aid is military aid and as I've said already, military aid is always given in weapons sales. Not money! The Economic grants were given before 1996 during the height of the Palestinian terrorist movement under Arafat and supported by the Arab countries!


Source:assets.opencrs.com...
See the chart again, it shows a column for Immigration and Economic grant and a seperate column for millitary aid for all years when aid was given, or as a matter of fact you dont want to acknowledge the repeated aid "request" Israel has been doing which even the CRS Congressional report acknowledges:

Following Israel’s 2005 withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, Israeli officials reportedly have sought additional aid from the Bush Administration. Additional U.S. assistance could be used to fund development projects in the Negev desert and Galilee region. Israel reportedly suspended its initial aid request in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. Although the Administration has not submitted a formal request for these new projects to Congress, there is some speculation that the proposed assistance package could range anywhere from $800 million to $1.5 billion.

Source: digital.library.unt.edu...:1

And this is just from US, havent even started including Germany, EU, France etc. all the places Israel receives aid money from showing holocast card.
And this proves Israel is the major aid receiver by US

Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. From 1976-2004, Israel was the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign assistance, having recently been supplanted by Iraq. Since 1985, the United States has provided nearly $3 billion in grants annually to Israel.

Strong congressional support for Israel has resulted in Israel’s receiving benefits that may not be available to other countries. For example, Israel can use U.S. military assistance both for research and development in the United States and for military purchases from Israeli manufacturers.

In addition, all U.S. foreign assistance earmarked for Israel is delivered in the first 30 days of the fiscal year. Most other recipients normally receive their aid in staggered installments. The United States gives all Economic Support Funds (ESF) directly to the government of Israel as a cash transfer grant rather than allocating funds for specific development projects.

Source: digital.library.unt.edu...:1



When the Palestinians dont even spare Hospitals and Childrens schools from their terrorist enterprise, how can the IDF be blamed for Hamas using schools as weapons stores ?

I think you mean Israeli's and here is the proof.


UN General Secretary Ban Ki-moon has condemned Israel. Ban, who was in the region to press for an end to the violence, described the two hits on the UN compound as "intolerable". "I conveyed my strong protest and outrage to the defence minister and the foreign minister. The defence minister said it was a grave mistake. He assured me that extra attention will be paid to UN facilities and staff and this will not be repeated."

Israel struck the compound where up to 700 Palestinians were sheltering shortly after Ban had arrived in Israel.



A hospital shelled

In another attack, the Israeli army shelled a hospital near Tal El Hava. Around 500 people are estimated to have been in the building, and many are entrapped in the building.

In a terse statement the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies said the damage to the al-Quds hospital was "completely and utterly unacceptable based on every known standard of international humanitarian law".
1,100 dead, over 5,000 wounded

Source: Israel Bombs Hospital and UN Building


You mean the report which even the Mahmoud Abbas rejected at first?


He never REJECTED he dropped the support for resolution after pressure from Israel and US.


Israel is threatening to kill off a crucial West Bank economic project unless the Palestinian Authority withdraws a request to the International Criminal Court to investigate alleged Israeli crimes during last winter’s Gaza war.

Shalom Kital, an aide to defence minister Ehud Barak, said today that Israel will not release a share of the radio spectrum that has long been sought by the Palestinian Authority to enable the launch of a second mobile telecommunications company unless the PA drops its efforts to put Israeli soldiers and officers in the dock over the Israeli operation.

Source: www.independent.co.uk...

US 'pressured Abbas on UN report'


Its not my definition, it is a definition adopted by the whole world.

Actually it is exactly what you said

If Israel had committed Genocide there would not be a single Gazan alive today! But to the contrary there are millions of Gazans who still continue to dig their tunnels and try to smuggle Iranians weapons through Egypt. Israel will have to go in once again and destroy those tunnels and their builders sometime in the future!

You said if Israel committed genocide then no Palestinians would be alive today so that means there is no genocide, however I contradicted your point saying if it was so that means, going by your definition even German didnt commit genocide on russians, jews, polls and other people.


Haven't the Gazan's collectively allowed Hamas to commit acts of terrorism ? Why should they be spared ?

Have'nt the Israeli's collectively allowed Israeli govt. to commit acts to Crimes against Humanity and War Crimes (as per the GoldStone Report prepared by UN) then why should'nt they be tried for the same crime?



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