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Originally posted by prof-rabbit
Originally posted by DJAghetto
open prison
Please show me pics of Israeli prison guards currently inside Gaza. Israeli Border Police does not count, since they only operate at the border crossing on the Israeli side. I want pics of Israeli guards that are actually inside Gaza.
A wall complete with guard towers and snipers doth constitute a prison..
[edit on 12-11-2009 by prof-rabbit]
Originally posted by prof-rabbit
Originally posted by DJAghetto
coasts sealed
This is not true. Palestinian fishermen are allowed to fish out at sea.
Really?
Originally posted by DJAghetto
This is not something new. It's been like this for years. The fishermen know the consequences and yet they still try to test the Navy... This situation is retarded.
Originally posted by DJAghetto
Palestinian fisherman are allowed to sail 3 nautical miles into sea. If they pass that mark, the Israeli Navy will intercept them and give a warning. If they ignore the warning, they will either be detained or fired upon.
Originally posted by prof-rabbit
Originally posted by DJAghetto
This is not something new. It's been like this for years. The fishermen know the consequences and yet they still try to test the Navy... This situation is retarded.
You are right, it is retarded.
You can fish but risk being fired upon.
No aircraft in or out.
Concrete and razor wire.
Snipers.
And you complain about the Gazans getting angry?
[edit on 13-11-2009 by prof-rabbit]
Originally posted by DJAghetto
Well, as long as you try to risk it by passing the 3 mile mark, you will be shot upon or detained. I already covered this.
You should ask the Egyptian government why they don't allow aircraft in and out of Gaza.
Can you please tell me where all the "concrete and razor wire" and the snipers are located in Gaza?
Of course the Gazans will be angry! They elected a terrorist group into power and it only made things worse. Hopefully, they will vote for Fatah in the next election. That would greatly ease the restrictions by Israel.
Originally posted by andrewh7
If a foreign country began setting up military checkpoints and building walls throughout your state, how would you feel? If the citizens of that foreign country showed up at your doorstep to tell you to get out within 12 hours because your house no longer belongs to you, how would you feel? Imagine those settlers were continuing to drive your neighbors from their homes and building walls right through the middle of their property, and then they claimed to be interested in peace.
Under international law, a blockade is considered an act of war. Unfortunately, Israel is not subject to international law and has never been held accountable for the human rights violations they have committed over the years. The people in Gaza can't even get cement to rebuild their homes. They are denied sufficient clean drinking water as well. They are living in a ghetto - plain and simple.
Originally posted by December_Rain
Originally posted by DJAghetto
Well, as long as you try to risk it by passing the 3 mile mark, you will be shot upon or detained. I already covered this.
You should ask the Egyptian government why they don't allow aircraft in and out of Gaza.
Can you please tell me where all the "concrete and razor wire" and the snipers are located in Gaza?
Of course the Gazans will be angry! They elected a terrorist group into power and it only made things worse. Hopefully, they will vote for Fatah in the next election. That would greatly ease the restrictions by Israel.
Allow aircrafts in and out of Gaza? You seriously are joking, where the people dont have water, electricity you ar asking why airplanes and airports are not there? Does Israel have left any place in Gaza or infrastructure to build a food factory forget a airport.
Originally posted by December_Rain
As for Hamas it's a Democratic govt. elected by people of Gaza who are also the policemen. If they are not better they are atleast not worst as IDF soldiers. Hopefully by that time, the International Security Council will start the trail of Israeli war crimes and prosecute each one of them to full extent same like Nazis. That surely will release much tension from the whole world and not just Gaza.
Originally posted by IAF101
They dont have place for food factories but apparently they have plenty of place to build ammunition depots, weapons factories, bomb factories, massive tunnel networks and terrorist training facilities !!
With so much "infrastructure" I too find it difficult for them to build an airport or helipad !
Maybe if sympathizers like you and Iran donate some fighter aircraft and attack helicopters they might suddenly have the "place" to build an airfield!!
EVen Hitler was elected democratically and look at his contributions to Germany or to the world ?? Hamas despite having won the elections has no uniform support across the Palestinains because they are terrorists and thugs who follow a philosophy of mindless violence and no real rewards.
If you want to talk about IDF soldiers so called "war crimes", then who is going to prosecute the Palestinians for their war crimes ? Who is going to prosecute the Palestinians for Intifada 1, 2 and 3 ?? When Germany lost Wolr War 1 they paid massive reparations to the victors ? How is Palestine going to pay Israel for allt he deaths and sufferings that have been faced by Israelis ? Will equal number of Palestinians be put to death as the number of Israeli citizens killed by suicide bombers and rocket attacks etc ?? What about all those who have supported the terrorists like Hamas ? Who is going to prosecute them ??
I would like to see the Security Council first prosecute Hamas and the Gazans for all the rocket attacks including reperations for all the damage done and lives lost before you start talking about IDF soldiers and their so called war-crimes!
In the UN general assembly there's an automatic bloc that supports any resolution or motion against Israel which comprises of the 57 OIC countries and about 40 others (including champions of civilization like Venezuela). This makes up the vast majority of countries that voted in favour of referring the Goldstone report to the security council.
The UN Human Rights Council has been accused by many, including Kofi Annan, of focusing its attentions almost exclusively on Israel. Doesn't this seem a little odd?
On 29 November 2006, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan criticised the Human Rights Council for "disproportionate focus on violations by Israel" while neglecting other parts of the world such as Darfur, which had what he termed "graver" crises
Think for a moment about how you feel about Israel. You're disgusted by them, you're angry about them. Right? Well imagine how people working within UNRWA feel, who've been working for years to try to help Gazans with their schooling etc. Of course they're going to think the worst about Israel and the IDF when Israel starts a war against Hamas. You just had to watch that Guinness guy interviewed by the Beeb to see how much disdain he had for Israel, salivating with righteous fury about the IDF bombing a UN school (which they didn't, by the way). The point is, not that they're not entitled to feel that way, but they are not neutral. How can they be?
Do you see my point?
majority of well intentioned, liberal humanitarians
regard Israel in a negative light (which makes those of us that don't seem like monsters).
Here's my challenge to you: Find me one person within Amnesty International who has a good word to say about Israel. Do you think it's likely?
Therefore, as an outside and objective observer, I think it's important to bare this in mind and remember that what the media and humanitarian organisations say isn't necessarily the truth.
It may be what they believe is the truth, but remember there are about 8 million Israelis who will disagree, so shouldn't their opinion count as well?
Originally posted by December_Rain
As long as US & UK keep donating arms ammunition and money and Israel keep begging for funds from them, I am sure no amount of help will be sufficient for Palestinians. No I do not think they have plenty of place to make any ammunitions now if it was so Israel would not have been able to commit genocide and get away with it so easily.
Originally posted by December_Rain
Exactly even Hitler was doing that and unfortunately now Israel is. Israeli govt. is the terrorist here as clearly stated by the UN Goldstone report. It's the Israeli army and itt's govt. that committed war crimes and crimes against humanity same like Nazis did.
Originally posted by December_Rain
The Hamas will also be prosecuted by UN Secruity Council for their war crimes and so will be the Israeli govt. and it's army who participitated in the genocide.
Originally posted by Lazyninja
Honestly, do these JDL guys even post in topics about aliens? Try and blend in guys.
Edit: I somehow wrote JDF (Jewish defense force) instead of JDL.
[edit on 14-11-2009 by Lazyninja]
Originally posted by IAF101
The only people who give any "money" to Israel are the people who trade with them for goods and services! The US Foreign Direct Military Aid is always facilitated through weapons sales.
And it is in fact Israel that supports these Palestinians by giving them jobs, electricity, medicines etc because they are all useless semi-literate violent Arabs who's only skill is terrorism. And even that skill they are very poor at because even after 55 years they have achieved nothing.
You do not "think" that they places to make ammunition ?? Obviously you were sleeping when the Israeli towns were under attack with hundreds of rockets for weeks ! Or probably when the Hamas build weapons factories under the Gaza hospital ?? These facts are know to everybody who has read the news and was awake during the IDF police action against the terrorists Hamas and their supporters!
Commit Genocide?? Do you even understand the meaning of the word
"genocide"?? If Israel had committed Genocide there would not be a single Gazan alive today! But to the contrary there are millions of Gazans who still continue to dig their tunnels and try to smuggle Iranians weapons through Egypt. Israel will have to go in once again and destroy those tunnels and their builders sometime in the future!
Do you even know what Hitler did or do not really understand English ? Because Hitler captured and gassed millions, while the IDF took police action in response to Hamas attack on Israeli cities with rockets! Something that was completely justified and supported as Isreals right to defend itself from terrorists who attack civilians. All the dead in Gaza are terrorists only. The women and children were also participating in terrorism by harboring terrorists and supporting their operations. They deaths were justified but unfortunate.
Not only Hamas, but Fatah, the PLA, everybody who supported Hamas and all the people who's were active during the Intifada and in working with Arafat also. The whole of Gaza and Jerusalem should also be returned to Israel as compensation for all the rocket attacks, suicide bombings, cafe bombings, violence and attacks against Jewish citizens of Israel. Also, the immediate release of the IDF solder Galid Shalit. First let all these people be prosecuted for their crimes and these areas returned under Israeli control then we can talk about any alleged "crimes" of the IDF in Gaza - A territory that Israel GAVE to the Palestinians in good faith.
Originally posted by Lazyninja
Honestly, do these JDL guys even post in topics about aliens? Try and blend in guys.
Edit: I somehow wrote JDF (Jewish defense force) instead of JDL.
[edit on 14-11-2009 by Lazyninja]
Originally posted by December_Rain
Really no Aid, am sure most of know the difference between the giver and taker.
Without these aids, Israel wouldnt have been where it is today. It has no skill except asking for aids showing the holocast card.
Overview of US Aid and Recent Developments
The level of U.S. assistance to the Palestinians—among the largest per capita recipients of foreign aid worldwide2—has fluctuated considerably since it was initiated following the establishment of limited Palestinian self-rule in the mid-1990s. Fluctuations have been particularly significant over the past three years—due mainly to the on-again, off-again role of Hamas within the Palestinian Authority (PA). Hamas is designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) by the U.S. State Department. After the 2006 Hamas victory in Palestinian Legislative Council elections, U.S.
assistance to the Palestinians was restructured and reduced. The United States halted direct foreign aid to the PA but continued providing humanitarian and project assistance to the Palestinian people through international and non-governmental organizations (NGOs). The ban on direct assistance continued during the brief tenure of a Hamas-led unity government (February to June 2007). During that time, U.S. policymakers demanded unsuccessfully that Hamas renounce, among other things, violence and its commitment to the destruction of the state of
Israel.
Subsequent events, however, altered the situation dramatically. In June 2007, Hamas forcibly took control of the Gaza Strip. PA President Mahmoud Abbas (the effective head of the Fatah party), calling the move a “coup,” dissolved the unity government and tasked the politically independent technocrat Salam Fayyad to serve as prime minister and organize a new PA
“caretaker” government in the West Bank. Within days, the United States lifted its economic and political embargo on the PA.
The Bush Administration and Congress then boosted U.S. aid levels in hopes of fostering an economic and security climate conducive to Palestinian statehood. The revival of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations for a final-status agreement in conjunction with the Annapolis Conference of November 2007 provided further impetus for U.S. economic support of the institutional and societal building blocks deemed crucial for Palestinian self-governance. The
Obama Administration has thus far advocated a similar approach. Following the outbreak of the 2008-2009 Gaza conflict between Israel and Hamas, the United States provided approximately $65 million in emergency U.S. humanitarian assistance for Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. These funds were channeled through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) and through international organizations such as UNRWA and the International Committee of the Red Cross. For a fuller description of these emergency contributions, please see CRS Report R40101, Israel and Hamas: Conflict in Gaza (2008-2009) ,coordinated by Jim Zanotti.
In March 2009, the Obama Administration pledged $900 million in U.S. assistance to the Palestinians to address both post-conflict humanitarian needs in Gaza and reform and development priorities in the West Bank. The enactment of the Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2009 (P.L. 111-32) on June 24, 2009 appropriated over $800 million toward the amount pledged
in March, putting total U.S. appropriations since January 2009 well past the amount pledged. P.L. 111-32 also included a provision that applies different conditions than those applied by previous FY2008 and FY2009 appropriations legislation to possible U.S. assistance to a Palestinian powersharing government that includes Hamas. For a fuller description of the pledge and subsequent appropriations, see “The $900 Million U.S. Pledge and the International Donors’ Effort” below. Congress is currently considering FY2010 appropriations legislation (H.R. 3081 and S. 1434) that
would provide an additional $500 million in bilateral assistance to the Palestinians.
Originally posted by December_Rain
They are poor because Israel stole away everything they had starting with their land. They are semi literate because Israel bombarded not even the schools, fod storage but even the UN shelters.
Originally posted by December_Rain
Is it because of these facts that now the International Commitee including Red Cross, UN, UN Security Council and the entire world barring US is saying Israel committed war crimes and during the siege asked immediately to stop them. People easily see through the farce Israel created and propogated through the media.
Originally posted by December_Rain
Going by your definition of genocide, it would mean even Nazi Germans didnt commit genocide since there are still so many Jews, Polls alive today, isnt it so?
Originally posted by December_Rain
Yeh and your are justfying collective bombardings on thousands of civilians in retaliation of homemade rockets after they are enclosed in an open air prison and their coasts sealed.
Originally posted by December_Rain
Even Germany could blanket justify their their actions by merely saying so it is justified, but the world did'nt think so and neither does the world think so now. That is an absurd statement that all killed were only terrorist, and everyone knows that.
Originally posted by December_Rain
Israel gave nothing but stole the land of Palestines & stole their lives. All they gave is an open air prison
Originally posted by IAF101
The Gazan's asked for terrorists to attack Israel when the voted for Hamas and when the IDF responds they think they are innocents! They are supporters of terrorists and as good as terrorists themselves! They deserve the same fate as terrorists!
Originally posted by IAF101
As you yourself have shown, most of the aid is military aid and as I've said already, military aid is always given in weapons sales. Not money! The Economic grants were given before 1996 during the height of the Palestinian terrorist movement under Arafat and supported by the Arab countries!
Following Israel’s 2005 withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, Israeli officials reportedly have sought additional aid from the Bush Administration. Additional U.S. assistance could be used to fund development projects in the Negev desert and Galilee region. Israel reportedly suspended its initial aid request in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. Although the Administration has not submitted a formal request for these new projects to Congress, there is some speculation that the proposed assistance package could range anywhere from $800 million to $1.5 billion.
Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. From 1976-2004, Israel was the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign assistance, having recently been supplanted by Iraq. Since 1985, the United States has provided nearly $3 billion in grants annually to Israel.
Strong congressional support for Israel has resulted in Israel’s receiving benefits that may not be available to other countries. For example, Israel can use U.S. military assistance both for research and development in the United States and for military purchases from Israeli manufacturers.
In addition, all U.S. foreign assistance earmarked for Israel is delivered in the first 30 days of the fiscal year. Most other recipients normally receive their aid in staggered installments. The United States gives all Economic Support Funds (ESF) directly to the government of Israel as a cash transfer grant rather than allocating funds for specific development projects.
When the Palestinians dont even spare Hospitals and Childrens schools from their terrorist enterprise, how can the IDF be blamed for Hamas using schools as weapons stores ?
UN General Secretary Ban Ki-moon has condemned Israel. Ban, who was in the region to press for an end to the violence, described the two hits on the UN compound as "intolerable". "I conveyed my strong protest and outrage to the defence minister and the foreign minister. The defence minister said it was a grave mistake. He assured me that extra attention will be paid to UN facilities and staff and this will not be repeated."
Israel struck the compound where up to 700 Palestinians were sheltering shortly after Ban had arrived in Israel.
A hospital shelled
In another attack, the Israeli army shelled a hospital near Tal El Hava. Around 500 people are estimated to have been in the building, and many are entrapped in the building.
In a terse statement the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies said the damage to the al-Quds hospital was "completely and utterly unacceptable based on every known standard of international humanitarian law".
1,100 dead, over 5,000 wounded
You mean the report which even the Mahmoud Abbas rejected at first?
Israel is threatening to kill off a crucial West Bank economic project unless the Palestinian Authority withdraws a request to the International Criminal Court to investigate alleged Israeli crimes during last winter’s Gaza war.
Shalom Kital, an aide to defence minister Ehud Barak, said today that Israel will not release a share of the radio spectrum that has long been sought by the Palestinian Authority to enable the launch of a second mobile telecommunications company unless the PA drops its efforts to put Israeli soldiers and officers in the dock over the Israeli operation.
Its not my definition, it is a definition adopted by the whole world.
If Israel had committed Genocide there would not be a single Gazan alive today! But to the contrary there are millions of Gazans who still continue to dig their tunnels and try to smuggle Iranians weapons through Egypt. Israel will have to go in once again and destroy those tunnels and their builders sometime in the future!
Haven't the Gazan's collectively allowed Hamas to commit acts of terrorism ? Why should they be spared ?