Is Hell real?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Because of the Messianic prophecies in the OT, ANYONE who claims to be the Messiah will have to PROVE that he is from the tribe of Judah and the line of David.

Phew, sorry for the long delay. A lot of searching went into this one!

I couldn't find any biblical reference stating that the Messiah *HAD TO PROVE* his genealogy, only that he had to be descended from that line. What I did find was rather interesting, as follows:

In Jewish law, lineage is determined through the father, not the mother and belief was the Messiah would 'be of this Earth'. It is therefore impossible for Jesus to have been descended from the line of David as he was supposed born of a virgin birth. Without an Earthly father and a clear line of descendant, how can he 'prove' to be of that line by Jewish law? We still are left with the added problem that the Second Temple has not been built to the exactness as it should have been built and thus has not been destroyed. We are also given two conflicting views of Jesus' supposed lineage, in Mathew's account, Jesus could not be the Messiah as he was descended from Jechonias, in which God had cursed this line of lineage.

Seeing as how Jesus was of the house of Judah, but of cursed lineage and still attempting to preach the word of peace, perhaps when God was speaking to him he was telling Jesus about the Christians that would come. Jesus is claimed to be Jewish, but by Jewish law, he is not Jewish and of cursed lineage meaning that anyone whom worships at his feet would be Jews that are not Jews. God talks to a lot of people who are not the Messiah, so it stands to reason that there should be no doubt that this is still the case with Jesus when God is telling him all about Christianity and how they will worship at his feet as a false prophet.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
EDIT: Removed the first and last parts because they were off-topic.

In regards to the views expressed by this man in the video you provided, could you please answer the following questions:

1) Can you explain how a loving, benevolent God could create or allow to exist a place where souls will suffer for ETERNITY because of their beliefs/actions in a world where God gave them limited ability to understand his true nature and their purpose?

Limited ability? Can you define that? If you ask the right questions and research things you will understand how everything falls into play.

2) Can you explain how an all-knowing God could allow free will to humans, knowing before they are even created that a very large proportion of humans would choose to do evil and make good people suffer?

Because he wanted you to choose your own path. It wouldn't be that fun if you knew what everyone was going to do...would it? It is a given that people will stray away from their beliefs, all he wants is you to do is go back to him. No matter what kind of sin you committed, as long as you repent and try to better yourself by realizing your mistakes, he will forgive you.

3) Why did God give humans free will? Would it not have been more simple to prevent those who choose evil from ever existing in the first place?

I like when people ask this question, because majority of Christians don't know how to answer it. The best gift God gave for us is free will. People think it is marriage, but truly it is free will. He wants you to be happy but at the same time you should know evil will try to corrupt you. He wants you to follow your own path, at the same time he wants you to be good. He is like a father. He wants you to do things on your own, learn on your own, and grow on your own. He gives you enough tools to reject evil, the rest is all on your own.

4) Why is God, as according to the big religions, so insecure that he needs His creations to pledge allegiance to him, when they are born into a world which allows them to doubt?

Because like God, satan wants to take credit for leading as many of his followers away as possible. At one time, God and Satan used to be in harmony. Satan was jealous of God because all the angel worshiped him. So Satan lured 1/3 of God's angels away, and so he was cast out. God did not want to destroy something that was so beautiful.

Satan was described as God's highest angel. Up until the moment he betrayed him.

reply to post by Equinox99

Limited ability? Can you define that? If you ask the right questions and research things you will understand how everything falls into play.

I'm assuming that he/she is referring to God creating us naive to his master plan in which only God knows it's course.

Because he wanted you to choose your own path. It wouldn't be that fun if you knew what everyone was going to do...would it? It is a given that people will stray away from their beliefs, all he wants is you to do is go back to him. No matter what kind of sin you committed, as long as you repent and try to better yourself by realizing your mistakes, he will forgive you.

God speaks like a true tyrant. Worship me and I care not what you do, as long as you don't do against me. Why be moral at all if you can repent your sins and be rewarded?

I like when people ask this question, because majority of Christians don't know how to answer it. The best gift God gave for us is free will. People think it is marriage, but truly it is free will. He wants you to be happy but at the same time you should know evil will try to corrupt you. He wants you to follow your own path, at the same time he wants you to be good. He is like a father. He wants you to do things on your own, learn on your own, and grow on your own. He gives you enough tools to reject evil, the rest is all on your own.

I fail to follow the line of logic here. Adam and Eve were created with free will, but without knowledge of good and evil as well. It was only through Lucifer's act of kindness in telling us the truth of the tree of knowledge that we obtained the ability to know evil. God never gave us the tools outright, he strictly forbade us obtaining the tools as he also quickly kicked us out of Eden lest we obtain immortality as well as knowledge together and be able to defeat his tyrannical reign upon us.

Because like God, satan wants to take credit for leading as many of his followers away as possible. At one time, God and Satan used to be in harmony. Satan was jealous of God because all the angel worshiped him. So Satan lured 1/3 of God's angels away, and so he was cast out. God did not want to destroy something that was so beautiful.

Bigoted Christian lies. Lucifer demanded equality, to be like God, not to rule above God. It was God who deemed equality as evil, it is God who still does as is referenced throughout the bible. God is an egocentric megalomaniac who wants nothing more than for you to worship him or rot in hell for eternity if you fail to worship him. God certainly does want to destroy us, he has done so in Genesis and he threatens to do so again in the future. This guy is a rampaging genocidal maniac who must be dethroned lest we want to all be destroyed because we're not 'worthy' of his insanity.

I have seen a kind ov what would be considered Hell in my mind. It cannot be written for that would debase the concept ov such a thing. And thats where its power resides. This is my wisdom ov such things for I can bring such a Hell only in myself.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Equinox99

 

God speaks like a true tyrant. Worship me and I care not what you do, as long as you don't do against me. Why be moral at all if you can repent your sins and be rewarded?



Bigoted Christian lies. Lucifer demanded equality, to be like God, not to rule above God. It was God who deemed equality as evil, it is God who still does as is referenced throughout the bible. God is an egocentric megalomaniac who wants nothing more than for you to worship him or rot in hell for eternity if you fail to worship him. God certainly does want to destroy us, he has done so in Genesis and he threatens to do so again in the future. This guy is a rampaging genocidal maniac who must be dethroned lest we want to all be destroyed because we're not 'worthy' of his insanity.

Why do you speak so negative about God and so positive about Satan. You can never take a negative (SATAN) in any positive way. Everything that he saids are lies and lies of lies buried in a lie. You defend the devil? Are you a satanist. if so thats your choice. The truth of the matter is that their should be no one else like God. Only God is God. You can't trust people with that type of power at all its far too dangerious and incredibly unexplainable. He knows what he is doing. YES the answer is that this life is nothing but a dream. It will end shortly and we will be in peace. I pray for you. Just enjoy the ride it's fun. He does things in the future that you wouldn't understand. Don't forget that the Giants were among the land back then. It all makes sense in the light.

Theirs a live recording of hell on youtube. As much as anyone doubts this it is true. NDE, Dante and the bible claim. Not to mention the poem paradise lost.

Lucifer wanted to be like God btw. He sat at the throne. Their is no equality. If anything of equal matter is in the case of Lillith which was a woman trying to create equality. In the end it was about power and disobideance. We should all take in consideration how much women get a bad rep. Jesus on the other hand had women preach with him and taught them in a equality type manner.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Jordan River]

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Jordan River]

No. Hell is an imaginary place created by ancient people to scare them into submitting to a religious doctrine.

reply to post by Jordan River

Why do you speak so negative about God and so positive about Satan.

God lie's, kills, and punishes those who don't kiss his hairy left back cheek. Satan as far as the bible depicts him and speaks of him hasn't done any of those things.

You can never take a negative (SATAN) in any positive way.

Bigot. Where is Satan being negative? Where are his act's of genocide?

Everything that he saids are lies and lies of lies buried in a lie.

Name one lie told by Satan.

You defend the devil? Are you a satanist. if so thats your choice.

I defend Satan because of bigoted liars who attempt to paint him as some evil entity when we can only look towards the bible and see the atrocities your beloved abusive God has committed against our species.

The truth of the matter is that their should be no one else like God. Only God is God. You can't trust people with that type of power at all its far too dangerious and incredibly unexplainable. He knows what he is doing.

I disagree, what research or sources do you have that show that humans and angels alike are incapable of being like God? Our only source is God himself, but even God is capable and admits to being vengeful and wrathful. I'm sure we can handle those acts as well. Only God wants to be God. Only God demands we worship him as lesser beings. Only God demands unquestioning servitude. Did you ever think that perhaps, *all* forms of tyranny are wrong?

YES the answer is that this life is nothing but a dream. It will end shortly and we will be in peace. I pray for you. Just enjoy the ride it's fun. He does things in the future that you wouldn't understand. Don't forget that the Giants were among the land back then. It all makes sense in the light.

God has already made it clear what he will do in the future, he will kill all those who go against his tyranny. He will kill those who demand equality and respect. He will kill those who see him for who he truly is.

Theirs a live recording of hell on youtube. As much as anyone doubts this it is true. NDE, Dante and the bible claim. Not to mention the poem paradise lost.

All controversial. Technically, there is no hell.

Lucifer wanted to be like God btw. He sat at the throne.

Right, he wanted equality. Only God says equality is evil and punishable.

Their is no equality. If anything of equal matter is in the case of Lillith which was a woman trying to create equality.

Another person considered evil for wanting equality. We can quote God as saying that women are inferior to men. What a good loving God!

In the end it was about power and disobideance.

Exactly. God want's all the power and glory for only himself and those who are disobedient to him will and have been destroyed. Yet, we call Saddam an very bad and evil man for doing nothing less than what God does.

We should all take in consideration how much women get a bad rep.

All of that is of God's own command.

Jesus on the other hand had women preach with him and taught them in a equality type manner.

Yet, Jesus was not the Messiah. How arrogant are Christians to think that Jesus is God incarnate. The Messiah is of this Earth, lineage traced to David. A virgin birth can not trace it's lineage to David. God tells us that *his* word will forever stand, unchanging. Jesus as a man can not change God's laws and commands.

Originally posted by iamoverrated
No. Hell is an imaginary place created by ancient people to scare them into submitting to a religious doctrine.

Yeah cause, the ancients that built the pyramids, and other engineering feats that we can't mimic today were completely retarded....

reply to post by kingofmd


Hell is just a definition for a place without love.
Only problem is that love is a starting point not an ending point, so as soon as you write down the rules they become obsolete because someone finds a loophole!

reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate


Why don't you "define" Hell by the terms the writers of the Bible books used, since of course, they were the ones writing said Bible books???

If we want to know what THEY meant when THEY wrote "Hell", then you'd need a Hebrew and Greek Lexicon.

See "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance", look up what the authors defined "Hell" as, since we are trying to define what THEY themselves wrote.


[edit on 4-11-2009 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I'm not saying that he is lying, but I dont believe or follow anything he or anyone else says about taking trips to hell/heven. If you have read/studied the bible, you will find that it is against personal revelations. The bible pretty much says that personal revelations should be exactly that, PERSONAL.

reply to post by sirnex


I dont agree with you on everything in your post, I do on somethings though. My personally opinion is that God isnt as all powerful as he would have us believe, but in the end, I dont want to go to hell, believing in Satan and Hell I think will ultimately lead you there... So im sticking with God on this one

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


Technically, shouldn't you go by the first Abrahamic God's word? The Hebrew bible doesn't speak of a place like Hell from what I can tell. Hell seems to be more of a Christian concept and yet even early Christians thought everyone was going to heaven. Only over time did the concept of hell catch on to where it's defined today.

reply to post by sirnex


It does mention Hell, well not Hell as in the christian perspective. It says you will be destroyed in the spirtual body, whether or not its the same im not sure, but none the less, I still wouldnt want to go there.

I'll link it when I find the scripture.

I just realized we are also talking on another Thread

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Ghost in the Machine]

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


I think you'll have a hard time finding any Jewish source for eternal punishment in a place like the Christian hell. This concept does not exist for them. While they do believe in a punishment of sorts in the afterlife, it isn't an eternal punishment like the Christian Hell. To them, such a thing make's their God look cruel and contradictory. He can't be all loving and all forgiving if he sentences souls to eternal punishment without love and forgiveness for all eternity. This is a Christian invention that doesn't exist within the original concept of God.

reply to post by sirnex


I would like to point out I said "Destroyed" not eternal damnation. Im sure that there is a difference.

Still looking for link.

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
reply to post by sirnex

 

I would like to point out I said "Destroyed" not eternal damnation. Im sure that there is a difference.

Still looking for link.

I'm also attempting to look for information on it myself too. Yet, if God were to truly destroy a soul, then why not destroy Satan from the beginning? Why create him to begin with? For all intents and purposes, It doesn't appear that the original concept of God was really that cruel and petty. Only the Christian version appears to be as such.

Yet, if God were to truly destroy a soul, then why not destroy Satan from the beginning? Why create him to begin with? For all intents and purposes, It doesn't appear that the original concept of God was really that cruel and petty.

Because it would make a good movie

No but seriously, There must be opposition in all things and for all things to exist. Even with God. If there was no Satan(opposition) there would be no God, If there were no Black there wouldnt be no White. I'm sorry but I'm taking an ignorant stance on why Satan exists. I stick with what I have posted.

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine

No but seriously, There must be opposition in all things and for all things to exist. Even with God. If there was no Satan(opposition) there would be no God, If there were no Black there wouldnt be no White. I'm sorry but I'm taking an ignorant stance on why Satan exists. I stick with what I have posted.

Yet according to God, he existed before all thing's. If he was capable of existing before creating even Satan, then why would he require Satan to exist?

reply to post by sirnex


Whats to say he is not referring to all things outside of our realm, the Human realm. Could you please quote me the scripture? Along with the scripture before and after it.

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Ghost in the Machine]