It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is Hell real?

page: 4
4
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 06:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by kingofmd
I only offered it as proof that not everyone who calls themself a Christian, is actually a Christian.


I'm not sure proof is necessary. If someone calls themselves a ham sandwich, a ham sandwich it makes them not. Christ himself cited examples of some who claimed to be righteous but were hypocrites. This does not mean however there aren't people who are as they claim to be.

[edit on 25-10-2009 by saint4God]




posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 06:53 PM
link   
reply to post by sirnex
 


You didn't answer my question.


Answer this little Q...

how do you reconcile the OT prophecies that the Messiah would come BEFORE the 2nd Jewish Temple would be destroyed??



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 06:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by kingofmd
I only offered it as proof that not everyone who calls themself a Christian, is actually a Christian.


I'm not sure proof is necessary. If someone calls themselves a ham sandwich, a ham sandwich it makes them not. Christ himself cited examples of some who claimed to be righteous but were hypocrites. This does not mean however there aren't people who are as they claim to be.

I agree, that's why I purposely used the phrase "calls themselves" instead of simply saying "Christians".



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 06:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
how do you reconcile the OT prophecies that the Messiah would come BEFORE the 2nd Jewish Temple would be destroyed??


How do you reconcile the fact that the Bible has no more objective, scientific evidence going for it than does the Mahabharata,the Koran, or Nostradamus' prophecies?



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 07:06 PM
link   
reply to post by Diplomat
 

Diplomat, I can't recall the show, but it was on near death experiences, and those who had died and of course there were those who described a wonderful place, a place they wanted to stay, and look forward to returning to, and then there were those who "died," barely returned told of a horror beyond description with the relentless, restless abandonment with zero hope.

Others include ER personnel who have a flat-liner, prep and then pop, and he comes back screaming about the heat, then flatlines again.

They spool up, pop him again and again, and he comes back screaming bout the flames before he flatlines.

Four times this happens before they lose him for good, and the ER staff soberly conclude they just saw a man go to hell.

ER and surgical units have some very strange experiences, as do men in war.

Things logic and understanding have no answer to.

As to the question, is Hell real?

I can't prove it and no one can.

But I've never seen the Eiffel Tower with my own eyes either. I just have it on good faith based on the word of others who've seen it.

Sometimes that's all you have.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 07:10 PM
link   
reply to post by dooper
 


If you only look, there are also NDE's where people encounter Buddha, or simply float around in a world that mirrors this one with no other apparent consequence whatsoever. Among many other types of experiences.

The one common factor that does not seem to change here, is that whatever people believe, whatever material is in someone's subconscious, it seems is going to manifest when they are finally separated from the sensory input of their bodies. They are essentially left alone with their own mind and the shock of the realization that yes, they are dead. How they react to that realization is entirely a personal thing, again, depending on beliefs and subconscious material.

Not surprisingly, there is a tendency for religious types to look for validation of their own beliefs in these phenomena and to exclude all others that don't seem to fit as being illegitimate. It's when you take them all together that you see the real underlying pattern, which fits more with Jungian psychology and dream analysis than anything else imo.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 07:16 PM
link   
One other thing.

In the larger cities, the emergency surgical nurses will tell you that from the NDE's that they see with great frequency, the vast bulk are those that indicate a horrific end.

Apparently, percentage-wise, the bulk are not going toward the light.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 07:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
how do you reconcile the OT prophecies that the Messiah would come BEFORE the 2nd Jewish Temple would be destroyed??


How do you reconcile the fact that the Bible has no more objective, scientific evidence going for it than does the Mahabharata,the Koran, or Nostradamus' prophecies?


Red herring, first of all I didn't ask you, second of all it's your OPINION it does not. You are implying this to be fact without presenting anything to support your claim. It's both a straw man argument and an appeal to authority argument.

The person I asked is big enough to answer my question for themselves, and if you want to claim your opinion as FACT, then you need to present the evidence yourself.

It would be best to do so in a separate thread since your statement has nothing to do with the OP.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 07:30 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I am not so sure that there is a place called hell. I feel the Heavenly Father loves all his creation and as we are a part of him, he desires none to be lost forever. But if there is such a place, I hurt for those who are put there.

To me the worst thing about hell would be the fact we are all alone and cut off completely from the Lord. He does not see you, he does not hear your cries or sees your tears. In my opinion that would totally be the worst punishment upon a soul that lives forever.


Peace,
Grandma



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 07:36 PM
link   
reply to post by dooper
 


dooper:

I had a most beautiful NDE. It is too long to go into detail, but it is on youtube.
Leo Virgo, who is my daughter has a link to where it is.

Peace,
Grandma



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 07:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Red herring, first of all I didn't ask you


Big difference that makes.


second of all it's your OPINION it does not.


As opposed to YOUR view, which is a FACT, I suppose?

Yes, it is very much my opinion that you create your own hell for yourself. And you have your own opinion. Unless YOU are going to present some evidence, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

As far as NDE's go, well, I already explained that well enough I think. Unless you want me to go specifically find all the ones that have nothing to do with Christian mythologies and are completely devoid of either a "heaven" or a "hell."



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 07:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I am not so sure that there is a place called hell. I feel the Heavenly Father loves all his creation and as we are a part of him, he desires none to be lost forever. But if there is such a place, I hurt for those who are put there.

To me the worst thing about hell would be the fact we are all alone and cut off completely from the Lord. He does not see you, he does not hear your cries or sees your tears. In my opinion that would totally be the worst punishment upon a soul that lives forever.


Peace,
Grandma


Grandma, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ taught more about Hell than any other person in the Word of God:

Source

It greatly disturbs me as well I assure you, it's all I think about when I look at other people, great remorse and pity, and a desire to lead as many as I can to the Lord for salvation.

I believe it's the exact same love and compassion the Father has for all His children too in not wanting a single man or woman to be lost.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 08:02 PM
link   
reply to post by bsbray11
 


it is a red herring, your question didn't have anything to do with the question I asked the other poster.

And it doesn't matter what MY opinion is, you made a claim about the Bible and other secular books so don't try and shift the burden of proof to me to disprove your opinion, I didn't do that to you with my opinion.

That's the big difference sir.

Now I've stated numerous times and I suppose I should "edit to note" the OP that this thread has NOTHING to do with NDE's, this man claimed to have a Revelation from God. He never was sick nor died when he had this vision.

NDE's are "off topic".



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 08:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Many people do not believe that there exists a "real" physical Hell. Even some born again Christians believe in "Annihilationism" (God ends the lost people's eternal existence) or "Universalism" (all are eventually saved after torment for a period of time), but the Word of God teaches much differently.

I invite you to listen to the testimony of Bill Weise, he claims the Lord took him on a 23 minute journey into Hell and told him to tell the World that 1. Hell is real and 2. Hell is eternal.

My thoughts and prayers are always with you all.

"23 Minutes In Hell" Bill Weise

If I can get one soul to watch the video I will consider my thread a great success.

Thank you for your time all, and God bless.

EDIT TO NOTE:

This thread/OP is NOT about "Near Death Experiences" or "NDEs", this man never claimed to have died, this man is claiming he was given a "revelation from God" while he was asleep or quite healthy, no one "brought" him back to life when his vision was complete.

if you want to discuss the reality or not of NDEs please do so in another thread. thank you



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 08:15 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I did answer the question. The Messiah will appear before the second destruction of the temple. Not the first destruction like the synagogue of Satan thinks.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 08:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
it is a red herring, your question didn't have anything to do with the question I asked the other poster.


I disagree. You were asking how he reconciled two pieces of equally unsupported information. I asked you how you reconcile that neither of the statements you were asking him to reconcile were proven in the first place. How is that not related?


And it doesn't matter what MY opinion is, you made a claim about the Bible and other secular books so don't try and shift the burden of proof to me to disprove your opinion, I didn't do that to you with my opinion.


You have made your opinion obvious on this thread. I'm willing to admit that I can't prove a negative (ie 'hell doesn't exist'). But unfortunately you can't prove the positive, either, that hell does exist, which is obviously your opinion.



Now I've stated numerous times and I suppose I should "edit to note" the OP that this thread has NOTHING to do with NDE's, this man claimed to have a Revelation from God. He never was sick nor died when he had this vision.


In politics this is what's called "spin" or even "bias." You are just hiding behind more meaningless words and semantics. The difference between what this man experienced, and a nightmare/NDE/any other form of "hallucination" was never made clear in the first place. Just because you say it was a "revelation from God," does not make it so.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 08:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I did answer the question. The Messiah will appear before the second destruction of the temple. Not the first destruction like the synagogue of Satan thinks.


The 2nd Jewish Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.

Jesus died about 40 years before the 2nd temple was destroyed. (33ish AD)

The first Jewish temple was destroyed in 586 BC

Second Temple - Wikipedia

So, again I'll ask you:

"How do you justify the Messianic prophecies that the Messiah would come before the 2nd Jewish temple would be destroyed?"



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 08:42 PM
link   
reply to post by bsbray11
 
A Near Death Experience needs a person to die first.

A revelation from God can happen anytime God chooses to give one to a man or woman.

Apples to oranges dude. And it's not my "opinion" this man had a revelation from God, it's HIS OWN TESTIMONY.

Now, if it's your desire to discuss the validity of NDEs then start a thread about them.

In this thread the discussion is "off topic". The man in the video is claiming he had a revelation from God.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 08:47 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I am quiet confident you know how to read properly, so stop pretending I am saying something I haven't said. The Messiah will come before the second time the second temple is destroyed. Just as Christians claim the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies in his second coming despite no actual second coming prophecy existing. Christianity is nothing more than the synagogue of Satan, Jews that are not Jews as described by God in the bible.



posted on Oct, 25 2009 @ 09:07 PM
link   
reply to post by sirnex
 


What?? Did you just say the "second time the second temple will be destroyed"?

The second temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

The temple the Jews are planning to build is the THIRD Jewish temple. All the temples were/will be built exactly alike, with the exact specifications God commanded in His Word.


Or to put things in your terms, "the second destruction of the temple" was in 70 AD. The "first destruction of the temple" was in 586 BC.



[edit on 25-10-2009 by NOTurTypical]




top topics



 
4
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join