Is Hell real?, page 3

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reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 06:38 PM by chiron613

This is a single experience among many thousands. Most of the experiences are benign and even uplifting. Most of the experience have nothing to do with hell or demons. Almost none of the experiences are in any way similar to what the Bible describes as hell.

So, why should this one experience be taken as more "true" or "real" than all the many thousands that don't agree with it?

The word of God does not talk about hell. Only the Bible does that, and the Bible is just a book. It is not the word of God. It may have been the word of God once, thousands of years ago, when people were unable to understand God better. However, thousands of years have gone by. People have changed. Their ability to understand God has grown. Now God needs to talk to people in a more mature way, and the Bible just isn't going to work any more.

The word of God comes to each of us now, not from a book. But we need to listen and to hear.

Sure, there's a hell, if you mean a place of suffering. We have hell on earth - along with heaven on earth. We create our own heaven and hell. Our earthly experiences aren't eternal, but they can be very intense.

Personally I don't think heaven and hell are God's reward punishment for us. I think that we experience spiritual pain or joy based on our actions. God tells us not to do certain things, not because He'll punish us if we do them, but because such actions lead to pain. If you jump out a window and are injured in the fall, it's really not that God punishes you for jumping out the window. It's that the Universe is set up so that you'll fall and be injured. If you touch a hot stove and receive a painful burn, God isn't punishing you for touching a stove. It's just how the world works.

[edit on 10/24/2009 by chiron613]

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 06:39 PM by slyce

Yes, I believe there is a hell.

And it's fixin' to get a bunch of
new habitants.

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 07:08 PM by justin credible

reply to post by sparkling

Seriously...one man says hes been to hell and you believe him...

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 07:16 PM by die_another_day

if god and heaven are real then hell probably exists lol.

If all of those exists then there's a possibility that I could be a superman =D.

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 07:23 PM by kingofmd

This guy's story was discredited years ago, along with Mary Baxter's. I see it is still making its spread of ignorance tour. Both of their stories are full of extra Biblical fairy tales about demons torturing people. Perhaps if they actually read their Bibles instead of inventing tales to sell to the undiscerned, they wouldn't say such foolish things. The only demons that are even spoken about being in hades, are in chains and awaiting judgement. The rest of them along with Satan are walking the earth as we speak. Why would Satan/demons willfully travel to their final place of punnishment? Why would they torture others as if God is employing them to? If God was employing them, why are they obeying? All this story teller does is provide more ammo for the skeptics, as if the modern church go'er isn't providing enough themselves.

*I specifically did not say Christian, because going to church makes you a Christian as much as sleeping in a garage makes you a car.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matthew 7:21-23

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 07:46 PM by Darth Lumina

I personally do not believe in hell as the Christians and Catholics describe. It was all created as a means to scare people into their faith. It's all B.S. The concept of hell is actually older than those religions, but I still don't buy into it. I don't care what this person claims, but if you want a better description of hell, read Dante's Inferno.

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 07:57 PM by NOTurTypical

reply to post by Lichter daraus

Straw man argument.

He never stated that.

That's your opinion only, be man enough to speak for yourself, give him the dignity to speak for himself.

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 07:58 PM by NOTurTypical

reply to post by Dark Ghost

I answered your 4 questions to the best of my ability in your U2U inbox.

if you have further questions, I'd be more than obliged to offer any info I can, if I don't have an answer I'll tell you as much, but I will make it a point to research and find one.

Thank you for your respect and sincerity.

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 08:08 PM by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by NOTurTypical

Hell in the New Testament is translated from the Hebrew bible from the word "Gehenna", which was a garbage dump in ancient times where they burned garbage and sacrificed people. Early Christians used to think everyone would go to heaven and that no one went to hell, as far as I recall.

You are partially correct, however there are many more terms to describe "Hell" in the NT other than "Ghenna"

Gehenna Wiki

Is Hell Real?

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 08:10 PM by NOTurTypical

reply to post by xynephadyn

I am an Expert on All subjects regarding Angels..

Appeal to Authority

.. and I dont have to run anything by you to prove this.

Shifting the Burden of Proof

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 08:13 PM by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by chiron613
This is a single experience among many thousands. Most of the experiences are benign and even uplifting. Most of the experience have nothing to do with hell or demons. Almost none of the experiences are in any way similar to what the Bible describes as hell.

So, why should this one experience be taken as more "true" or "real" than all the many thousands that don't agree with it?

This man's testimony is NOT a NDE. He is claiming to have a "revelation from God".

You are making an error comparing this man's experience/testimony to that of those who have had a NDE, they are completely different.

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 08:17 PM by sirnex

reply to post by NOTurTypical

The second link just reaffirms that the concept of hell is a Christian invention. Hell isn't even mentioned by God in his original book. If hell was an actual place, then why do we need a false prophet to tell us about it and why do we need men four decades after the death of the false prophet to write about him teaching of this place?

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 08:30 PM by Amagnon

Sure its real - I have been there also - but that was a while back when I was Satan's steward.

Its a lot better recently - we don't let in the likes of GW Bush anymore - they just get to hang outside from the "Tree of Excruciating Testicle Suspension".

Big D had the Lake of Fire land filled a few millenia back - I mean there's only so many toasted marshmallows you can eat. Besides - the whole scene was just getting old.

Now we have gone completely Egyptian retro - and filled the place with the good 'ho's - we let them in of course - and maybe a few of the decent musicians who OD'd or blew their brains out etc.

If we don't want them in, and they don't qualify for the Testicle suspension - then we just leave them stuck in the elevator with some really #ty music for a few aeons.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by Amagnon]

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 08:57 PM by NOTurTypical

reply to post by kingofmd

The correct verse is this one:

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

"THAT DAY" is "The Day of The LORD". or the Great White Throne Judgment. No believers in Christ are at that judgment, believers have to go to "The Judgment Seat of Christ".

Scripture also says that:

" That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10-11

So every non-believer will call Jesus "LORD" on their Day of Judgment.

The Bible clearly says that "ANY" man that calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Now, at the Judgment Seat of Christ rewards can be given for the sanctification of the person done in their lifetimes, but the "Lord, Lord" statement from Matthiew is discussing what many people will say on "that day", Judgment Day, to Jesus. Every single person damned will be calling Him Lord, because He is Lord. And the fact that they are pleading with Him, and He tells them "I never knew you", means they were never saved, they never made an effort to build a relationship with Him.

It's a great error to confuse the two different Judgments, all the non-believers are judged at the same time, after the 1000 year reign of Jesus on the Earth at the "Great White Throne Judgment (see Revelation 20:7-15) and the judgment all believers go through the very second after they die, which is the "Judgment Seat of Christ", (2 Corinthians 5:10).

believers will give an account to the Lord as well at our judgment, but salvation isn't on the line, rewards or loss of them are though.

Don't confuse the Great White Throne Judgment, with the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Question: "What is the Judgment Seat of Christ / Bema Seat of Christ?"

Answer: Romans 14:10-12 says, “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat…so then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.” Second Corinthians 5:10 tells us, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” In the context, it is clear that both scriptures are referring to Christians, not unbelievers. The judgment seat of Christ, therefore, involves believers giving an account of their lives to Christ. The judgment seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2) and our faith in Him (John 3:16). All of our sins are forgiven, and we will never be condemned for them (Romans 8:1). We should not look at the judgment seat of Christ as God judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us for our lives. Yes, as the Bible says, we will have to give an account of ourselves. Part of this is surely answering for the sins we committed. However, that is not going to be the primary focus of the judgment seat of Christ.

At the judgment seat of Christ, believers are rewarded based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). Some of the things we might be judged on are how well we obeyed the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20), how victorious we were over sin (Romans 6:1-4), and how well we controlled our tongues (James 3:1-9). The Bible speaks of believers receiving crowns for different things based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). The various crowns are described in 2 Timothy 2:5, 2 Timothy 4:8, James 1:12, 1 Peter 5:4, and Revelation 2:10. James 1:12 is a good summary of how we should think about the judgment seat of Christ: “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”

Source

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 09:01 PM by NOTurTypical

reply to post by sirnex

LOL!!! Wait a second, are you seriously claiming Jesus Christ is the "false prophet"???

Answer this little Q...

how do you reconcile the OT prophecies that the Messiah would come BEFORE the 2nd Jewish Temple would be destroyed??

Good luck with that one.

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 09:10 PM by sirnex

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Let's play a little game that Christians like to play.

No where in the Messianic prophecies does it state that the Messiah is supposed to make a second appearance in order to fulfill the rest of the prophecies. Yet Christians like to claim that because of the lack of mention that the Messiah would make only one appearance, then it stands to reason that he could make two to fulfill the prophecies.

So, let's make it stand to reason that because it doesn't explicitly state after how many times the temple is destroyed, it could very well be before the second time the temple is destroyed that the true Messiah would appear. You see, Christians are not the only one's who can play that game either.

[EDIT TO ADD]

It also stands to reason that Christians are the synagogue of Satan that God speaks of, Jews that are not Jews.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by sirnex]

reply posted on 25-10-2009 @ 12:25 AM by saint4God

Originally posted by xynephadyn
I AM avatar incarnate.

You've stated it before, but making statements do not generate facts.

Originally posted by xynephadyn
I dont push my beliefs down anyones throat like most religions on this earth,

You've commented that you're a subject matter expert, an elite authority, a god incarnate. Sounds like you're elevating yourself above the status of your fellow human being and therefore perhaps have the right to ram these 'facts' down my throat? Point fingers at other religions as you wish, but perhaps you should check the other three fingers pointing back at yourself first.

Originally posted by xynephadyn
and if you dont like what I Have to say- then dont bother commenting on my post.

Not so fast. You're not the only one who gets a microphone around here.

reply posted on 25-10-2009 @ 12:30 AM by saint4God

Originally posted by andy1033
I really think this is hell, as anything good in this world is shafted to the core. This is hell, and you people do not even know it.

Nah, there's much worse than this. It may not seem like it but here if you want fresh water, you get it. If you're hungry, you eat. If there's a storm, you find shelter. Hell has none of these things. For some, these things are a struggle, which is a slice of Hell, but not quite there, because in Hell there is no way nor any hope that the next moment will bring relief.

It's depressing talking about this topic and yet so many are insistent on doing so here, but there is actual good. It doesn't come from the world because of mankind's flaws. There is no perfect person living here. Good is an external influence that sometimes can be found here.

[edit on 25-10-2009 by saint4God]

reply posted on 25-10-2009 @ 05:34 PM by kingofmd

reply to post by NOTurTypical

How did I confuse the verse? I only offered it as proof that not everyone who calls themself a Christian, is actually a Christian. Bill Weise and Mary Baxter are examples of false prophets who (unless they repent) will be hearing that very line from the Lord.

reply posted on 25-10-2009 @ 05:52 PM by bsbray11

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I invite you to listen to the testimony of Bill Weise, he claims the Lord took him on a 23 minute journey into Hell and told him to tell the World that 1. Hell is real and 2. Hell is eternal.

Sounds like a bad nightmare to me. There have been lots of near death experiences; they always seem to be colored by the beliefs and subconscious material of the individual involved. Just like dreams.