Police: Man ran down 'too Westernized' daughter

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Again, the guy admitted doing it and his reasons (traditions).

Everything else you and modern academia (?) are posting is nothing more than a CAIR-type tactic to deflect and defend. We're on to you. Save it for another thread. Or better yet, try it on someone else somewhere else.

The question isn't how this guy justified his actions.... No one is debating that... There are pedophiles in every culture... though some of those cultures provide justifications for them.

In the same way there are "honor killings" in every culture... though some of those cultures provide justifications for them.

But remove the religions... and these horrible acts would STILL OCCUR! Because they happen in places where there are no religious justifications for them.

Now I won't debate the fact that in areas where there are justifications for them that they don't happen even more... that's probably true.

All I'm saying is that you can't say "This is a Muslim Problem" and think that buy removing Islam or any religion for the sake, that you would fix the problem. It's a problem of control and what people do when they feel they are losing control.


If we can focus on that, we can find the idiocy in lots more than just religion.


BTW... I often find I agree with you as well ;-) This heartens me because it means that there is overlap, an there is some common ground. I think that is what makes America great... the fact that we CAN find at least SOME common ground.




[edit on 22-10-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by grimreaper797


I as well could not believe I actually agreed with HunkaHunka on a point made. I might have to mark the calendar as well or maybe the world is ending or hell froze over. I never thought I would see the day though.

But that is one point I fully agree with. Why move here if you are not going to adapt to the culture around you. It irritates the crap out of me to see the American culture, as mixed as it is, being sought to be changed to that of another culture.

If you do not want to be a part of this society then stay out of it plain and simple.

Raist

reply to post by centurion1211


centurion tell us about that one :

[same story in more gore just replace westernized by goth and muslim immigrate by australian redneck]

www.dailymail.co.uk...

when Carly, aged just 15, posted her own photograph and personal details on the site, events took a fatal turn. Now a father and son are accused of setting a trap that led to her alleged murder after her body was found by a swimmer on an Australian beach

what's your diagnosis servant ?

edit: i misread, she was not killed by her father, just a father. still...

[edit on 22-10-2009 by ::.mika.::]

Originally posted by Raist
Why move here if you are not going to adapt to the culture around you. It irritates the crap out of me to see the American culture, as mixed as it is, being sought to be changed to that of another culture.

If you do not want to be a part of this society then stay out of it plain and simple.

While I totally agree with you, I'm not sure with whom you are trying to reason. People move here because of living standards, not because they aspire to adopt Western values. If we tried to filter immigrants, that would be called discrimination. What do you propose?

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

According to the report of the Special Rapporteur submitted to the 58th session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights (2002) concerning cultural practices in the family that reflect violence against women (E/CN.4/2002/83):


Jordan: Part of article 340 of the Penal Code states that "he who discovers his wife or one of his female relatives committing adultery and kills, wounds, or injures one of them, is exempted from any penalty."[56] This has twice been put forward for cancellation by the government, but was retained by the Lower House of the Parliament, in 2003: a year in which at least seven honor killings took place.[57] Article 98 of the Penal Code is often cited alongside Article 340 in cases of honor killings. “Article 98 stipulates that a reduced sentence is applied to a person who kills another person in a ‘fit of fury’”[31].
Countries that allow men to kill female relatives in flagrante delicto (but without premeditation) include:

Syria: Article 548 states that "He who catches his wife or one of his ascendants, descendants or sister committing adultery (flagrante delicto) or illegitimate sexual acts with another and he killed or injured one or both of them benefits from an exemption of penalty."
Countries that allow husbands to kill only their wives in flagrante delicto (based upon the Napoleonic code) include:

Morocco: Revisions to Morocco's criminal code in 2003 helped improve women's legal status by eliminating unequal sentencing in adultery cases. Article 418 of the penal code granted extenuating circumstances to a husband who murders, injures, or beats his wife and/or her partner, when catching them in flagrante delicto while committing adultery. While this article has not been repealed, the penalty for committing this crime is at least now the same for both genders.[citation needed]
In two Latin American countries, similar laws were struck down over the past two decades: according to human rights lawyer Julie Mertus "in Brazil, until 1991 wife killings were considered to be noncriminal 'honor killings'; in just one year, nearly eight hundred husbands killed their wives. Similarly, in Colombia, until 1980, a husband legally could kill his wife for committing adultery."[58]
Countries where honor killing is not legal but is known to occur include:



Pakistan: Honor killings are known as Karo Kari (Sindhi: ڪارو ڪاري) (Urdu: کاروکاری). The practice is supposed to be prosecuted under ordinary murder, but in practice police and prosecutors often ignore it.[60] Often a man must simply claim the killing was for his honor and he will go free. Nilofar Bakhtiar, advisor to Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, stated that in 2003, as many as 1,261 women were murdered in honor killings.[61] On December 8, 2004, under international and domestic pressure, Pakistan enacted a law that made honor killings punishable by a prison term of seven years, or by the death penalty in the most extreme cases.[62] Women's rights organizations were, however, wary of this law as it stops short of outlawing the practice of allowing killers to buy their freedom by paying compensation to the victim's relatives. Women's rights groups claimed that in most cases it is the victim's immediate relatives who are the killers, so inherently the new law is just eyewash. It did not alter the provisions whereby the accused could negotiate pardon with the victim's family under the Islamic provisions. In March 2005 the Pakistani parliament rejected a bill which sought to strengthen the law against the practice of honor killing.[63] However, the bill was brought up again, and in November 2006, it passed.[64] It is doubtful whether or not the law would actually help women.[65]
Egypt: A number of studies on honor crimes by The Centre of Islamic and Middle Eastern Law, at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, includes one which reports on Egypt's legal system, noting a gender bias in favor of men in general, and notably article 17 of the Penal Code : judicial discretion to allow reduced punishment in certain circumstance, often used in honor killings case.[66]

A woman's life is worth more than a man's honour.These laws are not justice at all. It's a disgrace and shows their intepretation of the Muslim Religion is barbaric.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by Circle]

Originally posted by Circle
In two Latin American countries, similar laws were struck down over the past two decades: according to human rights lawyer Julie Mertus "in Brazil, until 1991 wife killings were considered to be noncriminal 'honor killings'; in just one year, nearly eight hundred husbands killed their wives. Similarly, in Colombia, until 1980, a husband legally could kill his wife for committing adultery."[58]

Thanks to listing the Muslim countries (I'll keep that for reference), and for the above reference to something I didn't know anything about, i.e. honor killings in Latin America.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I am not trying to reason with anyone. I am simply saying that if the living was better someplace else that I did not like their values I would not move there.

For instance if the roles were reversed I would not be moving to Iraq. Nothing against the people there but I do not want to live in an area that holds a belief value I am against. Women there are nothing more than a belonging. I sort of like my women to be recognized for their value and who they are as a person.

Either be prepared to accept the culture around you or stay out. I am not willing to accept or adapt to another culture, so I am not moving unless it is to a area with culture similar to the U.S.



Raist

reply to post by buddhasystem


Here is an article I found from the women muslim league...www.mwlusa.org...&harrassment/hk.html

Very good read, I encourage everyone to read it.

www.islamic-book-depot.org.uk...

Here is another one that forbids honor killings as quoted from the Holy Quaran.


[edit on 22-10-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]

reply to post by buddhasystem


In Brasil, when a woman cheats on a man, they refer to it as "She put horns on him". Meaning she turned him into a devil because of her actions.

Whether that's the proper way of viewing this or not, it does show the cultural acceptance and justification of the actions a man might take when cheated on.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Whether that's the proper way of viewing this or not, it does show the cultural acceptance and justification of the actions a man might take when cheated on.

People I met from Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and Egypt didn't seem like typed remotely interested in taking out barbaric revenge on somebody.

Fact is, religious nut is a religious nut, with different concentration of nuts in different nations.

don't forget that in Islam if a man cheats on his wife she can stone him.
meaning kill him by throwing stones at him.

islam the religion, not sure about legal though

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Whether that's the proper way of viewing this or not, it does show the cultural acceptance and justification of the actions a man might take when cheated on.

People I met from Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and Egypt didn't seem like typed remotely interested in taking out barbaric revenge on somebody.

Fact is, religious nut is a religious nut, with different concentration of nuts in different nations.

True... but as I mentioned... these nuts don't have to be religious at all... just have a sense of justification.

My Father felt justified in trying to kill me, but not because of any religious backing.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I dont think that is true, In Islam a man can marry 4 women.

Um folks if you read the article there is a suspicious little statement.

]Noor Faleh Almaleki lives with Khalaf, police said but did not elaborate on how the two women knew each other.

It actually sounds like [sounds like, I must point out] the father hit her because of a perceived lesbian relationship. Not that it would make it right but it could put a new perspective on it. So how would the christian basher's like it if this turned out to be a case of a muslim killing someone for being gay?

[edit on 22-10-2009 by hangedman13]

reply to post by hangedman13


Ya know I thought the same thing...

And I think that this could have happened in a Christian home as well...

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Not denying it could happen in a christian home, just pointing out that it is pc to go after gay bashing christians. If this was due to the daughter being in a gay relationship, why was it not reported in the initial news article? Selective facts?

Click here for more information.

I hate to say this, and sound Islamophobic or whatever, but it's the truth. Islam is a problem. There, I said it. Go ahead call me racist, but read the Koran first.

HOLD ON PEOPLE...!

Why is he even driving a car, that is also "westernized" he should have found stones and begun stoning the girl, i mean, lets face it, isnt that the true way or should i say the non westernized way.

hmm...tristar is confused, best send a global hawk to find out how traditional their country of origin is at this present day.

reply to post by bettermakings


I did read alot of the Koran, alot of the Bible and alot of the old testament.

they are all the same to me
absolutely no difference whatsoever

I can tell you however that this is mostly a culture thing more than a religious thing.

the father didn't want the daughter westernized, not christianized

and yes, religion does have alot to do with culture i know