Police: Man ran down 'too Westernized' daughter, page 2

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reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 11:41 AM by ::.mika.::

can't you recognize propaganda when you see it guys with all the time you spend on ats ?

business as usual for msm (and ats)

[this is not a religious/immigration issue]

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 11:45 AM by centurion1211

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by sos37
Why are you still confounded by the actions of Middle Easterners who carry out these actions? We've seen time and again that they are steadfastly dedicated to religion and traditions and are ready to both die and sacrifice their families for such.

What, did you think TERRORISTS would eventually drop their hostility of the U.S. and make us pals? What the hell do you think we're fighting for in Afghanistan?

First off.. not all middle easterners are terrorists.... that's just infantile thinking...

First off .. (once again) no one said "all middle easterners are terrorists". That is just an infantile smokescreen that many appeasers attempt to use to try and justify the barbaric actions of some (not all) muslim extremists.

Really? You cannot comprehend that this was a cultural issue based on religion and national origins?

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 11:46 AM by ::.mika.::

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 11:46 AM by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by centurion1211
This is TOTALLY due to (the muslim) religion.

whether is muslim religion or over-conservatism it's not the point
it might be different to different people
you don't live in a muslim country
just reading CNN articles about muslims doesn't cut it i'm sorry

Originally posted by centurion1211
Exactly how do you equate someone being used as a sex symbol - as in advertising - with the justified killing of women just because they don't do what you say?

You have a very limited understanding of the topics you oh so love to debate about

Originally posted by centurion1211
This is just about the worst attempt to gloss over muslim gros human rights abuses I've ever seen.

Obviously you hate the muslim community as a whole
this makes every point you make biased and therefore void

all abrahamic religions are the same
islam = christianity = judaism

btw, christianity has caused way more harm throughout history than islam

I am a hindu in case you were wondering

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 11:49 AM by buddhasystem

centurion, I'm still waiting for the list of Muslim countries in which killings of family members are legal. Are you doing research now or what?

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 11:53 AM by grimreaper797

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
And besides... if you didn't want your children to become westernized... WHY DID YOU MOVE HERE TO BEGIN WITH?????

My god...I finally agree with something you say. Mark the calender.

Seriously, why would you move here if you hate western society so much? Hypocrite is the word I'm looking for. Maybe we should talk to the Muslim extremist in his own language. Surround yourself with infidels, and your family will become infidels, ITS YOUR OWN FAULT! Maybe then he will go back where he belongs, the stone age.

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 11:53 AM by centurion1211

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by centurion1211
in many muslim countries it is perfectly OK to kill a child or wife that is not behaving the way the "man of the house" believes they should.

Since there are "many" countries like that, it won't be too hard for you to list those where it's legal, or at least accepted by a vast majority of population. I'm all ears.

No other civilized religion or country shares this belief - at least that I'm aware of.

Maybe. However, here in the States it's not unheard of that parents decline medical care for their dying child because they prefer to rely on God's prayer as the ultimate cure. IMHO it's equally barbaric.

Where? Anywhere there is a muslim theocracy practicing sharia law. It doesn't even have to be "legal" there if the PTB look the other way.

Declining care for someone hardly compares. First, declining care would take place over time, which would give others the opportunity to step in and do something about it. Running over your child because of "traditions" takes only seconds. Desperately grasping at straws here??? It's not going to work this time as this guy has been caught dead to rights admitting he did this based on his (muslim) "traditions".

[edit on 10/22/2009 by centurion1211]

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 11:54 AM by poedxsoldiervet

reply to post by buddhasystem

According to the report of the Special Rapporteur submitted to the 58th session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights (2002) concerning cultural practices in the family that reflect violence against women (E/CN.4/2002/83):

The Special Rapporteur indicated that there had been contradictory decisions with regard to the honour defense in Brazil, and that legislative provisions allowing for partial or complete defense in that context could be found in the penal codes of Argentina, Ecuador, Egypt, Guatemala, Iran, Israel, Jordan, Peru, Syria, Venezuela and the Palestinian National Authority.[12]
Countries where the law is interpreted to allow men to kill female relatives in a premeditated effort as well as for crimes of passions, in flagrante delicto in the act of committing adultery, include:

Jordan: Part of article 340 of the Penal Code states that "he who discovers his wife or one of his female relatives committing adultery and kills, wounds, or injures one of them, is exempted from any penalty."[56] This has twice been put forward for cancellation by the government, but was retained by the Lower House of the Parliament, in 2003: a year in which at least seven honor killings took place.[57] Article 98 of the Penal Code is often cited alongside Article 340 in cases of honor killings. “Article 98 stipulates that a reduced sentence is applied to a person who kills another person in a ‘fit of fury’”[31].
Countries that allow men to kill female relatives in flagrante delicto (but without premeditation) include:

Syria: Article 548 states that "He who catches his wife or one of his ascendants, descendants or sister committing adultery (flagrante delicto) or illegitimate sexual acts with another and he killed or injured one or both of them benefits from an exemption of penalty."
Countries that allow husbands to kill only their wives in flagrante delicto (based upon the Napoleonic code) include:

Morocco: Revisions to Morocco's criminal code in 2003 helped improve women's legal status by eliminating unequal sentencing in adultery cases. Article 418 of the penal code granted extenuating circumstances to a husband who murders, injures, or beats his wife and/or her partner, when catching them in flagrante delicto while committing adultery. While this article has not been repealed, the penalty for committing this crime is at least now the same for both genders.[citation needed]
In two Latin American countries, similar laws were struck down over the past two decades: according to human rights lawyer Julie Mertus "in Brazil, until 1991 wife killings were considered to be noncriminal 'honor killings'; in just one year, nearly eight hundred husbands killed their wives. Similarly, in Colombia, until 1980, a husband legally could kill his wife for committing adultery."[58]
Countries where honor killing is not legal but is known to occur include:

Turkey: In Turkey, persons found guilty of this crime are sentenced to life in prison.[8] There are well documented cases, where Turkish courts have sentenced whole families to life imprisonment for an honor killing. The most recent was on January 13, 2009, where a Turkish Court sentenced five members of the same Kurdish family to life imprisonment for the "honour killing" of Naile Erdas, 16, who got pregnant as a result of rape[59].

Pakistan: Honor killings are known as Karo Kari (Sindhi: ڪارو ڪاري) (Urdu: کاروکاری). The practice is supposed to be prosecuted under ordinary murder, but in practice police and prosecutors often ignore it.[60] Often a man must simply claim the killing was for his honor and he will go free. Nilofar Bakhtiar, advisor to Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, stated that in 2003, as many as 1,261 women were murdered in honor killings.[61] On December 8, 2004, under international and domestic pressure, Pakistan enacted a law that made honor killings punishable by a prison term of seven years, or by the death penalty in the most extreme cases.[62] Women's rights organizations were, however, wary of this law as it stops short of outlawing the practice of allowing killers to buy their freedom by paying compensation to the victim's relatives. Women's rights groups claimed that in most cases it is the victim's immediate relatives who are the killers, so inherently the new law is just eyewash. It did not alter the provisions whereby the accused could negotiate pardon with the victim's family under the Islamic provisions. In March 2005 the Pakistani parliament rejected a bill which sought to strengthen the law against the practice of honor killing.[63] However, the bill was brought up again, and in November 2006, it passed.[64] It is doubtful whether or not the law would actually help women.[65]
Egypt: A number of studies on honor crimes by The Centre of Islamic and Middle Eastern Law, at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, includes one which reports on Egypt's legal system, noting a gender bias in favor of men in general, and notably article 17 of the Penal Code : judicial discretion to allow reduced punishment in certain circumstance, often used in honor killings case.[66]

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 11:58 AM by ModernAcademia

for those saying why did he move here if he didn't like this culture
you guys do realize that many iraqis HAD to leave iraq because of the war right?

you know, the illegal war where thousands of iraqi civilians died thanks to your tax-paying dollars.
Remember?

do you know how many Iraqis were deported(if that's the right word) from Iraq to the U.S.?

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:00 PM by buddhasystem

You said:

Originally posted by centurion1211
in many muslim countries it is perfectly OK to kill a child or wife that is not behaving the way the "man of the house" believes they should.

you proceeded to say:

Where? Anywhere there is a muslim theocracy practicing sharia law.

This is false, simple and flat. Sharia does not allow the "man of the house", as you put it, to commit murder at will. Are you just ignorant or lying?

I said:

However, here in the States it's not unheard of that parents decline medical care for their dying child because they prefer to rely on God's prayer as the ultimate cure. IMHO it's equally barbaric.

You commented:

Declining care for someone hardly compares. First, declining care would take place over time, which would give others the opportunity to step in and do something about it. Running over your child because of "traditions" takes only seconds.

Yes, slow killing of the child (religious nuts in the US) is more barbaric than somebody losing it in a heated argument (religious nuts in the Middle Wast).

Desperately grasping at straws here??? It's not going to work this time as this guy has been caught dead to rights admitting he did this based on his (muslim) "traditions".

Stop patting yourself on the back, cent, because you only provided false arguments about sharia and its alleged allowance for killings of relatives, by wither lying or be ignorant of the subject.

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:04 PM by bsbray11

Originally posted by sos37
Why are you still confounded by the actions of Middle Easterners who carry out these actions?

Or any humans at all.

We have more than our fair share of crazies here in the US as well, everyone from fundamentalists Christians preaching that 9/11 was for letting gay people marry, to pro-Israeli militants that want to see all Muslim countries destroyed.

My question is: why do all these people have to be so stupid and intolerant? They go hand in hand, don't they? Whereas the more tolerant and comfortable someone is with him/herself, the more comfortable and tolerant they are of letting others be.

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:06 PM by centurion1211

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by centurion1211
This is TOTALLY due to (the muslim) religion.

whether is muslim religion or over-conservatism it's not the point
it might be different to different people
you don't live in a muslim country
just reading CNN articles about muslims doesn't cut it i'm sorry

Sorry, but it is exactly the point of the OP - as much as you'd like to try and squirm out of it. And now you don't like CNN either, just because they reported something not pleasant about a muslim. Wait until CAIR gets a hold of CNN!

Originally posted by centurion1211
Exactly how do you equate someone being used as a sex symbol - as in advertising - with the justified killing of women just because they don't do what you say?
Originally posted by centurion1211

You have a very limited understanding of the topics you oh so love to debate about

Can't come up with an answer, so we attempt to insult the questioner. How many time have we seen this from the left?

This is just about the worst attempt to gloss over muslim gross human rights abuses I've ever seen.

Obviously you hate the muslim community as a whole
this makes every point you make biased and therefore void

No, obviously you are so biased in favor of the radical muslims and willing to appease that you repeatedly fail to notice that I clearly say "only the radical" and "not all" when referring to muslims.

all abrahamic religions are the same
islam = christianity = judaism

A truism that has been proven false over and over again. They are only similar in the origins.

btw, christianity has caused way more harm throughout history than islam

I am a hindu in case you were wondering

Only your opinion and thus hardly a "fact". Christianity had its violent past, but even a quick look at the worlds recent and current conflicts will show that almost all involve muslims in one way or another. And so what in regards to what religion you are. It is your belief in appeasement that is the problem. Is it because you are terrified of radical (not all) muslims yourself and think that appeasing them increases your own survival chances?

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:06 PM by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by sos37
reply to post by HunkaHunka

So what? That doesn't make your father and this guy anything alike. They're both equally messed up in some way in a basic, humanitarian level to want to inflict pain on their own children.

But what drove your father? Control issues? Alcoholism? Abuse when he was a child?

First it was Control issues...

Alcoholism was involved, however the biggest thing I heard him rant about was how things were changing... he couldn't stand the fact that the cultural structure that was in place during the 30's 40's and 50's had deteriorated. From his perspective it meant the end.

To be honest though, as he died, I came to understand that the real issue was that he never followed any dream that he had because his society would not allow him to do so, or he would face scrutiny.

Sounds real similar to any religion which enforces its belief through a control structure, whether that be an extreme Islamic interpretation or an extreme Christian interpretation or an extreme political stance.

At the end of the day, the use of Social Controls like Guilt and threatening of Death are anti-human but pop up in every culture....

Heck it's even in the cosby show... "I brought you into this world, and I can take you OUT!".

Don't assume this is specific to any particular set of beliefs... Any set of beliefs which requires a CONTROL structure will give rise to this behavior.

What drove this guy? He says traditions. The story doesn't say that they are Muslim or that this was an attempt to exact an honor killing, but if it is then it's an issue of being driven by one's religion.

Or one's incredible attachment to "the way things should be". This was the issue with my father... and most of his was due to feeling helpless in a situation where everything he knew was disappearing...

He decided to "take his ball and go home". My father made it clear to me several times that if it wasn't for my mother, I would have been dead a long time ago. You see he wanted to control what I became. And the more I listened to "jungle bunny music" and danced "like I was having an epileptic fit", the more angry he became....

He felt that all of this brought shame on him... so even though he didn't call it that... his attempts to kill me and my mother were in the end, honor killings.

It happens here a lot in the US, only we blame it on the economy... how many murder suicides have we seen come about due to people losing control of their lives?

These are honor killings...

According to the Quran, apostacy (leaving the Muslim faith) is the highest of all offenses, punishable by death. Did this guy feel compelled to kill by his God due to his faith??? That line of thinking DOES EXIST! Pretending it isn't there doesn't make it go away!

Just because one religion actually gave a name to this human behavior doesn't make it specific to that religion... this is a PEOPLE PROBLEM.

Just look at the tons of folks who feel they are justified to rise up against a president they didn't elect and who they feel are ruining their country....

It's all about a sense of control and nothing else.

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:11 PM by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by grimreaper797

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
And besides... if you didn't want your children to become westernized... WHY DID YOU MOVE HERE TO BEGIN WITH?????

My god...I finally agree with something you say. Mark the calender.

See... I told you I didn't fit the label ;-)

Seriously, why would you move here if you hate western society so much? Hypocrite is the word I'm looking for. Maybe we should talk to the Muslim extremist in his own language. Surround yourself with infidels, and your family will become infidels, ITS YOUR OWN FAULT! Maybe then he will go back where he belongs, the stone age.

Exactly.... it's like a homophobe moving to San Fran.... it doesn't make any sense.

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:11 PM by centurion1211

reply to post by buddhasystem

Again, the guy admitted doing it and his reasons (traditions).

Everything else you and modern academia (?) are posting is nothing more than a CAIR-type tactic to deflect and defend. We're on to you. Save it for another thread. Or better yet, try it on someone else somewhere else.

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:13 PM by centurion1211

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Star for you on the last post.

And I find myself agreeing with you (again!) on this thread. What is happening?

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:15 PM by buddhasystem

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by buddhasystem

Again, the guy admitted doing it and his reasons (traditions).

Wait, that doesn't mean that your argument is not false

Everything else you and modern academia (?) are posting is nothing more than a CAIR-type tactic to deflect and defend.

Please quote me where I defended the murderer. You lied in one instance and you proceed to lie again before your keyboard cooled down.

Or better yet, try it on someone else somewhere else.

I choose where I post. I also have a suggestion for you, bigotry sells well on Hannity forum.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by buddhasystem]

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:17 PM by poedxsoldiervet

reply to post by ModernAcademia

If you recal the war wasnt illegal... Congress Authorized it as well as the UN, so the war was very legal.

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:20 PM by centurion1211

reply to post by HunkaHunka

But on your previous post responding to sos ...

Am I the only one getting so tire of hearing how we have to get to the "root cause" of why people do the things they do?

WE are not acting on instinct. We are all conscious, thinking people - more or less - with at least some ability to understand right from wrong. You will never convince me that even if alcohol, or previous child abuse, or lousy social conditions were involved that your father or anyone else still didn't know right from wrong.

Just a bunch of psycho-babble to try and allow some people to try and get away with crimes they should be taking FULL responsibility for. Like this muslim trying (hoping?) to blame what he did on "tradition", and trying to pick up appeasers like buddha and modern aca along the way.

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:20 PM by cenpuppie

reply to post by sos37

What, did you think TERRORISTS would eventually drop their hostility of the U.S. and make us pals? What the hell do you think we're fighting for in Afghanistan?

What the hell ARE we fighting in Afghanistan for then, that's the million dollar question?

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