In Christianity, Why is Satan Evil, and God Good? What is Evil?, page 5

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reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 10:24 AM by John Matrix

reply to post by tinfoilman

I wish to clarify something.
God does not talk to people today like he did in OT times.
God's revelation to mankind is complete, and it's found in the Bible.
Until Christ appears again, all things must square up with the sound teachings in scripture.

In other words, God is not going to tell anyone to KILL another human being.

Serial Killers and ignorant people who Kill people at abortion clinics have all been mislead into believing God commanded them to Kill. THIS IS WRONG!!

If anyone hears such voices in their heads, they should seek help immediately. A voice that commands to Kill is the voice of Satan or a demon...not the voice of God.

God would have spared Sodom and Gomorrah if only one righteous person was found there, and indeed God sent His angels to warn Lot and his wife to "get out of Dodge"..... know what I mean?

So God is just and merciful, and since Christ brought the possibility of redemption to all, God does not command anyone to Kill or commit murder.

I want that to be clear.

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 10:27 AM by tinfoilman

reply to post by John Matrix

Well yeah. We were just generally talking about the OT, but I suppose not everyone might understand that so it's probably good you brought it up.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by tinfoilman]

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 10:29 AM by Neo-Dark

reply to post by tinfoilman

If he tells you to kill someone and you don't, that's evil. If he tells you not to kill someone and you do, that's still evil.

You stated that no matter what you do if God commands you to do something evil, you'll end up doing something evil. But the way you said to avoid that is by doing what God says.

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 10:32 AM by tinfoilman

reply to post by Neo-Dark

Oh you missed the comma. Let me rephrase. If God tells you to do something, what is evil is not doing it and going against his command.

In the OT he can't tell you to do something evil, because if he tells you to do it, it's not evil anymore.

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 10:35 AM by John Matrix

Originally posted by CHA0S
The chances of Noah being the only uncorrupted person on Earth is mind-boggling...and why was his family saved also? Doesn't it seem a bit odd that only people from the same family were worthy of saving?

EDIT: And what of all the animals that died...surely they weren't corrupted...and why would their life be worth any less than that of a humans? We are all God's creations after all...

You should learn about the Sons of God and the daughters of men bearing their children before the flood. It appears the earth was filled with violence, evil, genetic mutations, and disease. This was due to these corrupt angels who are referred to as the Sons of God having mated with the daughters of men...producing what are known as Nephilim.

Noah and his family were the only one's left on earth who's DNA had not been corrupted....that's why they were spared from the flood.

Nephilim and Animals don't have eternal souls.

This Link takes you to a very well written and easy to understand exegesis concerning the conditions prior to the flood: Nephilim, Noah, Enoch, Sons of God, Daughters of Men, and the corruption of Flesh prior to the Flood.
www.mt.net...

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 10:45 AM by John Matrix

It should also be clear that in OT times ....if Israel did not wipe out their enemies as God commanded, these very enemies would have wiped out all of Israel.

A lot of the misconceptions being bounced around are due to ignorance of God, Israel, and the historical circumstances that are written about in the OT.

When Jesus saved the woman at the well from receiving the death penalty it wasn't because God changed.....it was man's understanding of God that was about to change....Jesus changed man's way of thinking about God.
God has always been merciful and just.

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 10:49 AM by John Matrix

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by John Matrix

Well yeah. We were just generally talking about the OT, but I suppose not everyone might understand that so it's probably good you brought it up.

I could perceive that you were aware so my message was for the benefit of others. I hope I did not offened you.

I just felt a need to clarify that point because there is so much ignorance going around about God these days.

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 10:57 AM by CHA0S

reply to post by John Matrix

Since you seem to have some good answers...and no one replied to this post I made before...I will quote it...what do you have to say about this:

most of you Christians have stated that we shouldn't take every word the bible says literally...and because it is a translation/interpretation from another language, which is probably an interpretation/translation from yet another language...how can we trust any of it? Assuming it was the work of God in the first place...how do we know man hasn't edited and changed it do his desire over time? How can we really know what to take as truth? How do we know what sections aren't the words of God? It's a guessing game...and I'm not for it...I don't need a book to tell me how to be a good person...I don't need the fear of hell or the desire for Heaven to help me be a better person...I don't need to be a good person so a God is happy with me...I am a good person without religion in my life...basically what I'm saying is...there is no point...we don't really know how the universe works...if a God exists...if we go to Heaven...etc...we really don't know...and you can't trust that bible to give you those answers...we need to decide for our selves...we need to do our own thinking...that way we might get some where...and maybe one day discover the truth...get some real answers...

Proverbs 3:5 “Trust in the lord with all your heart; and lean not unto your own understanding.”

If you think that will get you anywhere...think again...good day.

EDIT: Just look at the state of the world...and genuinely tell me you think prayer helps achieve anything...it's time that could have been better spent actually doing something that might have an effect...

[edit on 21/10/09 by CHA0S]

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 11:03 AM by Neo-Dark

reply to post by John Matrix

Yes, god is merciful and just. Just look right at the start. As punishment for man for eating the apple (and as God says, listening to his wife) he had to work for his food. For the woman, she gained great pain in giving birth. And lastly, for the snake... it got the worst of it all cause it was the one that tempted them remember... it got forced to... ... ... CRAWL ON IT'S BELLY?!?

What?!? Could it hover before that?!? And going by this then he forced an entire species to change and be eternally punished. What about women?!? Now days if they ask for forgiveness as they give birth does it feel pleasant?!? Yep... good ol' merciful God. If man asks forgiveness, he gets a basket of fruit sent to his door right?!?

Oh right, we will eternally be punished for what our ancestors did... Thanks merciful God.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Neo-Dark]

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 11:38 AM by John Matrix

reply to post by CHA0S

Aside from the quote from proverbs, which all would do well to listen to...I respond as follows:

The gospel message (the fall, redemption, salvation) confounds those who choose the wisdom of this world.

The wisdom of God is foolishness to those who are perishing.

If you have made your mind up, so be it. If you have not made your mind up and you are honestly seeking answers, those answers are readily available.

[edit on 21/10/09 by John Matrix]

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 11:46 AM by John Matrix

Originally posted by Neo-Dark
reply to post by John Matrix

So, you say that killing with cause (aka. reason) is not murder? Does that mean because that christians push their faith onto me that to me, if I found that to be corruption breeding corruption, and killed them that to you that isn't murder?

I do not see how you can say the difference between murder and killing is a reason. I mean, if I felt like killing someone today and thus go out and kill someone, I have a reason to... so would that make me a murderer or a killer?!?

Look, Killing and Murder can be the same....but not always. If you are commanded to go to war by your government....(for a just cause) and you are put in a position where you must kill "or you will be killed", or kill in defense of your fellow man....that is not murder.

Murder involves the premeditated killing of innocent persons....this is why some soldiers get prosecuted for killing....even when they kill during an offensive or defensive operation.

Killing someone in self defense is not murder.

Do you get it now?

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 11:46 AM by PSUSA

reply to post by John Matrix

The DIVINE NATURE can be summed up in humility, meekness, patience, and Love.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Agreed.

In order to learn these attributes we also need to know fear, depression, war, impatience, selfishness, etc. If we dont, then those good fruits are nothing but abstract ideas that don't mean anything.

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 11:52 AM by John Matrix

Originally posted by Neo-Dark
reply to post by John Matrix

Yes, god is merciful and just. Just look right at the start. As punishment for man for eating the apple (and as God says, listening to his wife) he had to work for his food. For the woman, she gained great pain in giving birth. And lastly, for the snake... it got the worst of it all cause it was the one that tempted them remember... it got forced to... ... ... CRAWL ON IT'S BELLY?!?

Yes....I know it well teacher.

But it's not as though Adam and Eve were not warned.

If I warn you and your wife or girlfriend not to jump off a bridge that I built, and I tell you that if you do jump off....on that day you will surely die...well....who's fault is it if some beast comes along and convinces your woman to jump off....and then you follower her.....blaming Her on the way down?

Do you see how ignorant it is to blame God for bringing punishment on your own head by your own acts of disobedience?

God warns of the danger and the punishment....if you disobey the warning....the punishment is on your own head.

Stop blaming God.

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 12:00 PM by Ophiuchus 13

reply to post by CHA0S

GOD CREATED SATAN and expected satan to behave not be good or bad. Natas chose to intrefere with GODs newest creation @ that time HUMANS and GOD CASTED HIM DOWN HERE WITH US SO HE COULD SEE WHAT his demonic interactions have done to humans. Once you all make it to the other realm you will understand what many call GOOD AND BAD DONT EXIST they are human assesments of a higher understanding of EXISTANCE.

-IF YOU NEVER ATE FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE YOU WOULDNT BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY GOOD AND EVIL-

[edit on 10/21/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 12:03 PM by Neo-Dark

reply to post by John Matrix

Oh, so God felt threatened and thus "killed" everything in order to retain power then, with the great flood... or where was the threat exactly? What about killing gays? If two people were homosexual, what good would killing them do for their people? I'd think they'd be worse off if they had been good hard workers.

---

And about the Adam and Eve thing, I was somewhat being sarcastic as to ask if it's merciful and just to punish every other person or creature that share's the same likeness for one person's (or creature's) sin... Also if a snake previously could hover... that'd be one cool snake.

And by the way, if my girlfriend jumped off a bridge I'd probably be like "CAN I KEEP YOUR PS3 AND LAPTOP?!?" and not follow her.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Neo-Dark]

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 12:06 PM by John Matrix

Originally posted by PSUSA
reply to post by John Matrix

The DIVINE NATURE can be summed up in humility, meekness, patience, and Love.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Agreed.
In order to learn these attributes we also need to know fear, depression, war, impatience, selfishness, etc. If we dont, then those good fruits are nothing but abstract ideas that don't mean anything.

By Turing to the one nature, you turn from the other. You cannot walk in two directions at the same time.

This is why it is said, "If you walk in the Spirit....you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh."

You have listed some of the deeds of the flesh...all which proceed from covetousness, envy, pride and wrath....which are the elements of the fallen life, and they are at enmity to the Divine nature. As often as you turn to the Divine Nature as the governing power in yourlife, you walk in the Spirit. When you turn back to your old nature, you turn your back on the Spirit.

One matures in Spiritual knowledge and wisdom according to the Spirit they gravitate towards.

[edit on 21/10/09 by John Matrix]

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 12:15 PM by Ophiuchus 13

Originally posted by Neo-Dark
reply to post by John Matrix

Oh, so God felt threatened and thus "killed" everything in order to retain power then, with the great flood... or where was the threat exactly?

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Neo-Dark]

NO, HE FLOODED EARTH TO KILL OFF THE NEPHILIM if he didnt they would of eaten all the humans and since NEPHILIM ARE OF BOTH WATCHER AND HUMAN NATURE THE DONT EXACTLY DIE WHEN KILLED. thATS WHY THEY AND THEIR WATCHER PARENTS ARE CALLED FALLEN ANGELS, CURRENTLY LOCKED IN THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, TILL FREED BY ABBADON THE STAR*

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 12:17 PM by John Matrix

Originally posted by Neo-Dark

Oh, so God felt threatened and thus "killed" everything in order to retain power then, with the great flood... or where was the threat exactly?

The threat was to the last few people on earth who had kept their DNA from being corrupted.

What about killing gays?

Who's doing that?
Are you talking about OT times?
We live in NT times.

If two people were homosexual, what good would killing them do for their people?

None. The NT does not support the death penalty. I went into depth on this topic in another thread. Do I need to do it every single time someone starts a new God bashing thread?

And by the way, if my girlfriend jumped off a bridge I'd probably be like "CAN I KEEP YOUR PS3 AND LAPTOP?!?" and not follow her.

Cool, but that won't save you or give you eternal life.

[edit on 21/10/09 by John Matrix]

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 12:31 PM by CHA0S

reply to post by John Matrix

ok...I thought the answer you gave me about Noah was good...it became more reasonable after you brought genetics into the picture...but now that I think about it some more...the same thing applies...what are the chances of every person's DNA becoming corrupt except one family? And more to the point...why on Earth would God wait till the last second and say..."Oh...crap...I better save these last few..."...he was to busy trying to prove a point to Satan maybe?

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by CHA0S

If you have made your mind up, so be it. If you have not made your mind up and you are honestly seeking answers, those answers are readily available.

The fact is...I do seek answers...and the ones the bible give are a load of bull...

[edit on 21/10/09 by CHA0S]

reply posted on 21-10-2009 @ 12:35 PM by Neo Christian Mystic

reply to post by CHA0S

The idea that the bible is talking about good and evil, and concepts such as sin and sinners rests uppon rather modern Christian theology. The Hebrew word Chata which is translated into sin in our bibles, means misguided as in "not following the right path". So Jesju wasn't crucified for our sins, but since we were misguided and naive, unknowing. stupid.