In Christianity, Why is Satan Evil, and God Good? What is Evil?

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posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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Through careful study of texts in the bible, or at least major one’s (and one‘s often told to children at Sunday school), you can see a definite trend to people claiming God is good, Satan is Evil, but why is that?

In Moses and the Red Sea the Pharaoh (in Exodus) had Moses and “his people” as slaves. God told Moses to go to Pharaoh to request for Moses’ people to be set free. The Pharaoh refused of course and thus God was angered. He sent a set of punishments to the Pharaoh because of this. Among one of the punishments he gave the Pharaoh was that every first born Egyptian child dies. This of course punishes the innocent too does it not, killing countless children for what someone else did. However, this is often told to kids in Sunday school as God doing good work. How is him killing a bunch of innocents good?

Noah’s Ark, another famous story told to children, in which God washes away the mistakes of the world by having it rain for days. Of course the story goes that Noah was told by god to make an Ark and that when it was made 2 of every animal boarded (This is not based on whether this is plausible to do such a thing so please do not bring it up) and the world was then flooded. Of course apart from the 2 of every animal on the Ark would have drowned and those that were left, they would have returned to a home which was greatly damaged by all the gushing water of the flood, and some wouldn’t have been able to have survived in the new environment and died anyway. (Once again, please don’t get into the fact that they’d have to inbreed and that at one point the bible counted this as ok but God changed his mind, this is not part of this) Our point here, is how is killing 99%+ of animals and humans good?

However, I haven’t heard much of Satan going out and mass murdering innocents or killing 99%+ of the animals, and yet God has, and God is considered all good, correct?

It has been written that “Thou Shalt Not Kill”, as one of the commandments, but at points the bible states that "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13) (I’m not getting into the point that technically it says nothing about female homosexuals exactly and thus God is a sexual bigot) as well as other parts inciting killing, or murdering someone, for what they’ve done wrong in God’s eyes. Yet I’ve never heard of Satan saying that someone should die, just because of who that person falls in love with and has sexual relations with. No offence but isn’t saying someone should die because of who they love?

Talking about killing in God’s name, many years ago I believe Christians burnt many people alive, claiming they were practising magic. However, in Jesus’ case, who supposedly performed miracles like turning water into wine, healing the wounded miraculously and so on and so forth, and yet he himself is considered good and blessed and somewhat idolized and worshipped. Why is this? Just cause of who his father was?

Based on what the bible says you should not think for yourself and to blindly obey, is that not the thinking of a slave driver, to have you do their bidding unquestioningly and not thinking for yourself? By the way, I am referring to; Proverbs 3:5 “Trust in the lord with all your heart; and lean not unto your own understanding.” Is being a slave driver then counted as good? Or only if you are God? Why does God get away with the very acts he himself supposedly has punished?

I’ve also read about a man named Job’s. Supposedly Satan challenged God to prove that he has followers who would believe unquestioningly, even without all he has. God agreed and had most, if not all, of Jobs animals were killed or stolen, had his servants slaughtered, killed his children in a storm and had him fall ill, and as Job stilled turned to God, Satan was wrong… but in this case can you really attribute it to LOVE OF GOD. He believed God had just killed a bunch of his stuff and done all this horrible stuff to him, he could be fearing God that much that he felt that he had to appease him. He’d already lost his family, and his livelihood. And whose hand played this foul trick? God. He agreed to having Job lose everything, and he would thus as much be to blame as Satan, would he not? He ruined someone’s life out of pride. Why did he need to prove this point to anyone, especially Satan? (Look in the bible under; Job) [I have read the ending too where God BLESSES Job, but what about the kids of Job’s who died out of God’s arrogance?] Where is the goodness there?

It is stated that God’s only agreement to the use of blood is as a worship sacrifice to atone for sins (Leviticus 17:11) and thus blood transfusions are against the teachings of God, meaning that if you NEED a blood transfusion, God would rather have you die. As one’s blood is only meant to be used for worship. So, God telling you to choose death instead of life is good too then I presume?

I must ask now, what has Satan done wrong to be labelled as evil?


I found this video to help illustrate our point in this.

// This has been a joint effort by CHA0S and Neo-Dark //




posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 05:37 AM
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The one problem I always have is if God blames Satan for all our problems in the world such as poverty, murder rape etc., why would he have created him in the first place. He knows "all" including the future so why would he just have not created him in the first place and everything would be straight.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by kingoftheworld
The one problem I always have is if God blames Satan for all our problems in the world such as poverty, murder rape etc., why would he have created him in the first place. He knows "all" including the future so why would he just have not created him in the first place and everything would be straight.


Don't worry, all corrupted life will soon be destroyed. Earth will become nothing but a dead chunk of rock in space. The Solar System will be cast off our galaxy and eventually die out.

It's just God's timeline isn't in mortal terms. It's many thousands, even millions/billions of years in the making. Just look at the stars and galaxies above you...

While corrupted elements will only destroy our bodies of dirt, only the God of the Universe has the full rights over our souls, cheers!



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 05:59 AM
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He knows "all" including the future so why would he just have not created him in the first place and everything would be straight.


Name one virtue that isn't learned by overcoming some form of evil.

It seems to me that your words indicate that you believe all would be paradise if only God had been more considerate by not creating Satan. I submit we can't handle a paradise in our weakened state. We need a fight, to struggle to grow and learn. We sometimes need a good push to do this, and evil is a good tool to use to make us do things we dont want to do.

You know what happens to people when they get everything handed to them on a silver platter. They turn into spoiled brats.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:15 AM
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reply to post by kingoftheworld
 


If you look at Muslim views of Satan then it might explain it a little bit. Muslims don't believe Satan was an angel, they believe he was a JINN who had free will also. Angels have no free will so seriously it wouldn't make sense a bit for him to turn on GOD.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by oozyism]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:23 AM
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It depends on whether you view 'Yahweh' of the bible as the Creator of everything. Just my opinion but I think he and Satan were like lesser demons or something, I do not think they embody the Creator. Since demons will be the deceiver it is also possible satan claimed he was god to have people do his bidding.

Of the flood, not only is it based on past events, which other cultures also document, it was due to the 'angels' having children with humans and creating nephilim who were supposedly demonic giants, who ate EVERYTHING including people, sooo the flood was like a giant ctrl-Z to undo the angels mistakes.

Satan may not tell them to kill but he is corrupting, putting earthly gains before people, myself am a communist (humanist) by ideology because capitalism is an evil form of greed in putting material item before people in importance. It is all about greed and being the richest and having unnecessary luxury item. I do not mean I am against capitalist 'market' just the ideology and greed.
"A man knows nothing if he knows not
That wealth oft begets an ape"
-Elder Edda

As for magic healing the sick is not even COMPARABLE to summoning evil spirits or putting curses on people... things of malevalence. I think they mean bad magic not good magic...

reply to post by PSUSA
 

Perfectly said mate! A warrior is one who fights... when he knows he will fail.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 


If you careful studied the Bible, you would have to conclude that God and Satan are adversaries. That conflict between "God and "satan, resulted in "satan being cast from heaven.
Did you glean that from your careful study.
Now.
If we are to assume that "god" is the more powerful "entity" then "god" gets to write history. Hence "god" historically(bible version) is the Good guy, and 'satan' is the bad dude.

Pretty simple really.

Regarding this simple equation, anything written as a history( or claimed as a history.....bible) of Gods actions would seem logical that all Gods action would come with the waiver that all his actions are intrinsically good, and that his adversary is intrinsically bad, or evil.

It is pretty simple stuff really, wether you believe the bible or not, or just seem intent on trying to change peoples perception on it or argue over age old inconsistencies from a literal point of view whilst failing to consider the plethora of theological apologists that have spent centuries debating the very topics addressed above and in a million other threads.
.
Did I just yawn again. Sorry, you'll have to excuse me.

Anyone for arguing in small circles?



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by Ridhya
 


Magic is magic. Is it not?!? Even if someone tried to heal someone by unnatural means, it would be counted as witchcraft and they could be condemned to die.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by Neo-Dark
reply to post by Ridhya
 


Magic is magic. Is it not?!? Even if someone tried to heal someone by unnatural means, it would be counted as witchcraft and they could be condemned to die.

Those were intelligent human beings who were trying to help but societies didn't accept them in the past. They were labeled as witches and demons..

See also:

The truth about a Genius



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by Ridhya
 

So...let me get this straight...all the bad things God supposedly did, were actually the workings of Satan impersonating God? So why would the bible not state this? IF the bible was the work of Satan, why in the world would God let such a mass of people follow this deception? And he puts us through all this crap...lets most of the population live in absolute poverty, while the minority enjoy abundant wealth? Yep...that'll really teach us...Satan causes the murder, slave trade, and rape of innocent little kids, and God lets it happen to teach them a lesson? OK...it makes perfect sense now...he's definitely a good bloke...for sure...

[edit on 21/10/09 by CHA0S]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by Neo-Dark
 

(forgot to add who replying to)

Defffinitely not to me. As I said there is selfless and greedy, or good intent and bad intent. If someone wanted to heal me for no other purpose than to make me better for no money or anything, it is good. If someone want to heal me for the single intent to have others worship them (think they are powerful) or to charge me money, that I would say is witchcraft. Or people cursing others. Jesus would turn the other cheek, methinks. Not petty revenge. Difference really is motive, greed and power = witchcraft.

I have had crazy people tell me they would curse me or put a 'hex' on me and stupid crap like that, but being a pretty apathetic pacifist I laugh it off


[edit on 21-10-2009 by Ridhya]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 


I agree with some of the stuff you have said, but the problem is that Christian's believe that God is good, don't be tempted by Satan away from God's word and blah blah blah. So, I wondered why?

I realise that to the victor goes the spoils of creating the story how they see fit, but, why then do Christians read these horrible deeds and see him as good?

Why is genocide good if a god does it? Why is it ok to punish people for the sake of your pride? Why is it ok to make people your slaves out of fear of eternal damnation? Why is it that if I did it the history books would label me as a horrible dictator and yet if a God does it it's ok?

I just want to know how anyone can justify those actions as good and claim someone who has done next to nothing is evil.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:57 AM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 

I think you have already made up your mind before anything so I do not see the point in replying other than to clarify my belief.

I PERSONALLY believe(and probably am alone in this) that the bible itself was Satanic and the 'prophetic' parts are actually a plan by Satan to rule the world, read albert pikes 3 world wars and such. They call satan the 'deceiver' and what bigger decepticon than to pull a false flag of sort and say that you are the Creator, then people will HAVE to worship you, and you get them believing 2+2=5.

I do not believe the Creator (assuming one exists) needs to mother us 24/7 we are supposed to be able to take care of ourselfs, we have been given all resources and abilities and squander them.

God does not cause murder, rape, poverty, WE do, greedy humans, people who put profits first, and debt slavery/war/traadegy are all very profitable. Are you saying god is to blame because he wont step in every time? I mean I could wander the streets 24/7 and soon as I see a woman getting assaulted save her and kill the thug... but since I choose to let happenings happen am I to blame?

Things happen, they do, and people let them happen, humans are fallible and corruptable and allow others to suffer. Creator giving us free will, ALLOWS US TO ALLOW OTHERS to suffer.

That is my take.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:59 AM
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“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
– Richard Dawkins.

Satan has big shoes to fill... but how close does he come to god? The bible has been researched to uncover the number of people killed by god and the number of people killed by Satan. Lets look at the stats.

Killing Spree - God v Satan

People Killed By God: 2,301,417 (conservative approximate)

People Killed By Satan: 10 (with god's blessings)

Link

Don't just take this website as confirmation. There are many sources and most agree to these ballpark figures. Of course, our resident bible thumpers will come in and tell you they were all evil and therefore do not count.

IRM :shk:

[edit on 21/10/09 by InfaRedMan]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:03 AM
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This is a complex question that deserves a more detailed answer than I'm going to offer. But here goes:

First, there are two sorts of "good" and "evil". One is physical. The other is spiritual. So God is said to bring evil to people, but this is referring to physical evil - illness, injury, even death. For instance, God might send an illness that afflicts and kills some people. He brought "evil" on the people, in a physical sense, but not in a spiritual sense.

According to the Bible, God is the author of life. He gives all life. All life comes to an end eventually. So God just took the firstborn back a lot sooner than they might otherwise have gone - but He gave them their lives to begin with. He didn't take any more than He gave. God is the only "mass murderer" who has the ability to give life, as well as take it. I'd say that gives him the right to go ahead and do it. Not to mention that He's God, and can do it anyway.

As for Noah's ark and all that, it's a morality tale, not literal fact. It says the world sucked so bad that God was going to wipe it out, but Noah was OK, so He spared his family. It's just another version of the Gilgamesh story, or of many others that involve a deity wanting to wipe out everything and start over.

Not everyone thinks Satan is evil. Some believe that Satan was (and remains) an obedient son of God, an angel who obeys God's commands. If you check out Job, you'll see that when God tells Satan not to afflict Job's body, Satan obeys. Then God says he can afflict the body, but must spre his life - and again, Satan obeys.

The problem with the Bible is that some people think it applies today, as it did thousands of years ago. It simply doesn't. The book made sense when it was originally given, and for some centuries afterwards. It made sense when followed by a tribe of nomadic herdsmen who lived in a harsh environment, surrounded by many other hostile, warring tribes. Then a prohibition against homosexuality made sense. Most of those sexual laws were designed to ensure that the tribe survived. That meant there needed to be a steady supply of new members, to replace the guys who'd get killed in battle and die off from other causes. Every act of sex should count, should have the possibility of causing a pregnancy. Otherwise, the tribe might die out.

Now we've got way too many people. We need to *stop* being fruitful and multiplying, because otherwise we'll breed ourselves into extinction. The old book no longer is relevant, yet some people think it is and continue to try to live according to those old rules. It doesn't work, and it cannot work.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by Ridhya
 



God does not cause murder, rape, poverty, WE do, greedy humans, people who put profits first, and debt slavery/war/traadegy are all very profitable. Are you saying god is to blame because he wont step in every time?
Fine...I believe it is mans fault as well...but it was you or someone else who suggested it was the work of Satan, and God lets Satan exist to teach us a lesson...Satan either causes havoc or he doesn't...God is either a nice bloke or he isn't...I don't blame God for not stepping in (if God exists)...I blame him for committing mass murder...but oh right...that was Satan...

[edit on 21/10/09 by CHA0S]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by chiron613
 





God is the only "mass murderer" who has the ability to give life, as well as take it.


Yep, God gives women great pain in childbirth then makes them pregnant. Top notch fella ay? (referencing Jesus)



Most of those sexual laws were designed to ensure that the tribe survived. That meant there needed to be a steady supply of new members, to replace the guys who'd get killed in battle and die off from other causes.


And in case of acts of god, like a flood or all the first borns suddenly dying... right?

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Neo-Dark]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by chiron613
 



God is the only "mass murderer" who has the ability to give life, as well as take it.
What brilliance...give life...only to whisk it away with the snap of a finger...it's like saying a mother has the right kill their child (In some circumstances it could be reasonable to get an abortion, like rape, the mother didn't willingly produce that life, but in Gods case, he did...and we are talking about conscious life with self-awareness anyway)...

[edit on 21/10/09 by CHA0S]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:36 AM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 

It certainly was not me, I think you should read more carefully...

Satan could either be a demonic entity, or just a force, ie evil that exists when people put themselfs before other. In my opinion it does not matter. Whether satan is a guy tempting you to do harm or just your selfish desires causing you it is the same in the end... only thing I know is that I will never know which it is.

Satan causes the murder either way. Telling you 'take his life and I will give you fortune', or maybe he doesnt exist at all! and you merely think to yourself 'killing him I will get his money to buy me stuff'

There also is duality in everything. Maybe god is like me and nice 99% of the time but like all things has that spark, I mean very verry occasionally I am a dick too...

Who knows? Not me not you... not preacher... not atheist... that is why I am agnostic.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by Neo-Dark
reply to post by atlasastro
 




I realise that to the victor goes the spoils of creating the story how they see fit, but, why then do Christians read these horrible deeds and see him as good?
Perception.


Why is genocide good if a god does it? Why is it ok to punish people for the sake of your pride? Why is it ok to make people your slaves out of fear of eternal damnation? Why is it that if I did it the history books would label me as a horrible dictator and yet if a God does it it's ok?
Perception. Prejudices aided by the belief that the rational used to commit genocide is from a "goodness" or an "evilness". If people have already established a dichotomy of God being good and the devil being evil then genocide inspired by god will be rationalized as good, or maybe even rationalized as genocide being deserved by the sufferers of genocide as a punishment from a Good God. This is evident in Judges, Israelites fighting Canaanites. In the context of the Bible it was Israel getting the "promised land". But IMHO and belief it was a cultural war between two vastly differing nations. Canaanites practiced ritual sacrifice and ritual sex which morally, using the dichotomy, would be rationalized as Evil and worthy of Gods punishment. If you read the bible, this is evident.

Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves
will he be to his brothers.

Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem!
May Canaan be the slave of Shem.

May God extend the territory of Japheth;
may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,
and may Canaan be his slave.

Genesis 9:25-27 (NIV)

1 “When the Lord your God shall bring you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and shall clear away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girga#es and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, 2 and when the Lord your God shall deliver them before you, and you shall defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them.
(Deuteronomy 7:1-5, 16; see also 20:16-18).




I just want to know how anyone can justify those actions as good and claim someone who has done next to nothing is evil.
People believe the War against terror is good.
People believe that although our governments are corrupt and evil, our soldiers that go around executing orders on behalf of them, that these soldier are still good but are just executing bad orders. I am not arguing points here, but just illustrating the conundrums that envelop the actions of people when we characterize antagonists or actions as either good or evil.





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