In Christianity, Why is Satan Evil, and God Good? What is Evil?

reply to post by LeoVirgo


OK, so anything of the flesh might be construed as evil.

So, I would assume this includes rape and abortion as being of the flesh and thus of evil.

If your thirteen year old daughter was raped and got pregnant what lesson would you teach her?

1. Abort the baby as she shouldn't be punished for the mistake of someone else following the evils of the flesh.

2. Force her to carry the baby essentially punishing her for the rest of her childhood through raising an infant, a task no child is capable of doing in a mature manner. Or forcing her to give up a life that she has grown to someone else because she is not mature enough to handle it herself.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

OK, so anything of the flesh might be construed as evil.

So, I would assume this includes rape and abortion as being of the flesh and thus of evil.

If your thirteen year old daughter was raped and got pregnant what lesson would you teach her?

1. Abort the baby as she shouldn't be punished for the mistake of someone else following the evils of the flesh.

2. Force her to carry the baby essentially punishing her for the rest of her childhood through raising an infant, a task no child is capable of doing in a mature manner. Or forcing her to give up a life that she has grown to someone else because she is not mature enough to handle it herself.

How do you know that by her carrying the baby is punishing her? How does anyone know that the baby cant become the light of her life? It is sad that we have those situations to consider....but I must admit I would have a really hard time aborting a baby and that choice being on me. I dont think I would abort the baby. Lessons of life are hard yes....it doesnt mean that a experience doesnt have a lesson to offer. I dont believe in abortion but I will respect the freedom for others to make that choice for themselves.

Will another persons wrong cause me to act in a way that I view as 'wrong'? I hope not. Would my daughter have a choice in the matter at that age...? Yes...with alot of thinking on the matter first. My daughter is 11 and already is very mature. Im not sure that she could live with the idea of taking a life, even if that life was a result of her being raped.

Good question...that is a tough one.

Being a young age...she wouldnt be doing this alone. For such a decision to be made while a child is young, should result in the entire family becoming a part of such an event.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by LeoVirgo]

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

Do you not think for some reason we are to strive to be good people that care for eachother and help eachother? Is there not a higher purpose in discerning between ways?

Had people rather been decent (ah, I see you smoke, do you need an ashtray or can we go outside instead since my son has astma?), rather than overly good (smoking is not good for you, you have to stop-agony).

Even though I see both dark and light serving the same purpose in the bigger picture...does the bigger picture still have both in it? If so, then why strive to be 'loving', 'forgiving', ect....?

Just conversating....not debating.

If there is a heaven...or higher dimension....does it also have the yin and yang? Or would it be of just one polarity?

Be decent, you would grow in integrity contrary to a person who always have to do what's good. The latter would be the source of jokes and blind alleys....

Well, here is how I think that good/evil thing is supposed to work:

The old testament is the history of the tribe Israel and its originally supposed to be told to members of that tribe, only. Gods "actions" in this story are not to be understood as a role model for human behavior, but rather as the adventures of the tribe. Jahwe is the personalized agent of all the unbelievable stuff that led to the tribes survival, and as a consequence to the very existence of the person, who is told the story.

Now, granted that you dont hate yourself, you can hardly assume, that the series of events, that led to your very existence can be evil.
And even the fact, that some of the things that happened before, may seem have to been unfair to your eyes, only proves that you are not wise enough, to understand gods plan.
Which, in turn, should keep you from whining about the things you encounter in your life and that seem to be hardship for you.

Even the laws, as they are laid out in Leviticus, can not be questioned on an ethic basis on wether they are good or evil. They are the rules, that kept the thing going, so they are the causes of the tribes survival and of your very being. No questions to be asked about that.

The idea of god as a role model for humanity doesnt take off until Jesus hits the stage, and its really that roman Saulus/Paulus-guy with his fancy greek philosophic background, who first introduces the very idea of ideas themselves into the game, namely when he claims, that all people are allowed to see themselves as (idealistic) members of the Israelitic tribe -
if they try to emulate Jesus' (NOT Jahwes) behavior.

Before Paulus its never about ethics, but only about survival. You dont follow Jahwes plans to be good, but to avoid being annihilated.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by XenoStuffz]

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Being a young age...she wouldnt be doing this alone. For such a decision to be made while a child is young, should result in the entire family becoming a part of such an event.

I understand family would help, but I don't see any real lesson being learned from this situation. Even if you choose not to abort, you still condemn the rest of your daughter's childhood, she would no longer be capable of being just a kid. What does she learn? She learns people rape you and rob you of your childhood, how is that a good lesson? She learns not to trust another man that she doesn't personally know. She gains from that experience a whole host of psychological issues that she might never get cured of.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by sirnex]

All Good or All evil People are always annoying! So God Damn Annoying!

Second line phenomena amuses me. Often the best truths are written as oneliners and puns summing it all up in a ball of red threaded yarn....

reply to post by sirnex


Let me twll you two stories, one which would mean one thing and another to explain the facts of life just as well.

#1 My sister was in hi-school and one day she came to me asking if I could come in to her room she had something to say. She said that she was carrying and that she had ordered a vacuume session in the hospital... bladiblabla, she was pregnant and was about to make an abortion the next morning. I stayed in that room all night, and now I'm the proud uncle of a seriously gifted teen.

#2 Let's make this impersonal, like a fairytale.... Once, I met this girl, we were both in school, and she was going to the university, and get married to someone who would not be me, like always, and she got pregnant, her world fell down, educatuion, forget it, job 9 till five and diapers and bottle food. To make a short story shorter, she she completed an education she could never have gotten and excelled in the sae way if she had the child. The side effect is that I was heartbroken, still thinking what a loss is when it might have been the last chance.... Still I would die for her right to decide, and I know that somewhere else among all these worlds, this chicken is running around listening through the grape vines. -- These days she's high up in hierarchy making money in truckloads and have found out she is a lesbian, and she has made a love child with a male gay couple, through insemination, and is the proud mom of a beautiful little girl...

Had the anti abortion (antichrists) eliminated free will, you would have a society of slaves with an ecclecial govermnet telling them how to eat toast in order not to bother them.

[edit on 28/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

Had the anti abortion (antichrists) eliminated free will, you would have a society of slaves with an ecclecial govermnet telling them how to eat toast in order not to bother them.

Yet, isn't that the very heart of religious belief? Do as I say not as I do. Do as I do and I punish you. Use your capacity for freedom of will and choice but only if you use it to do as I want you to do, if you use it to go against me I'll burn your little buttock hairs for eternity.

Originally posted by sirnex
if you use it to go against me I'll burn your little buttock hairs for eternity.

That's probably why they are curled, because of the heat we rest uppon....

A few verses from the Bible:

Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

1 Chronicles 21:1
[ David Numbers the Fighting Men ] Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

Job 2:7So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

Zechariah 3:2
And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Mark 1:13
And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Luke 4:8
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve

Luke 11:18
If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub

Luke 13:16
And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Romans 16:20
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

1 Thessalonians 2:18
Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

reply to post by sirnex

Why have evil if it is only to teach good when we can just have good without knowledge of evil? Evil should serve more purpose than to teach what shouldn't exist to begin with.

Because it would not exist without the KNOWLEDGE of it. "To the pure all things are pure".

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Being a young age...she wouldnt be doing this alone. For such a decision to be made while a child is young, should result in the entire family becoming a part of such an event.

I understand family would help, but I don't see any real lesson being learned from this situation. Even if you choose not to abort, you still condemn the rest of your daughter's childhood, she would no longer be capable of being just a kid. What does she learn? She learns people rape you and rob you of your childhood, how is that a good lesson? She learns not to trust another man that she doesn't personally know. She gains from that experience a whole host of psychological issues that she might never get cured of.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by sirnex]

There are always lessons. One of the hardest and truest lessons is acceptance and coping. How would anyone adjust to anything that was hard or unwanted in their life without skills to cope with it and adjust to it.

I think you just to fast assumptions that my daughter would now be ruined due to my 'condemning' (your words, not mine) to NOT KILL LIFE even though life dealt her a harsh set of cards.

Another lesson here....is love....for life. If you dont see any evidence for a Holy Spirit anywhere...then likely you wont understand how important it is to take life by the horns, dealing with it to your fullest potential....and live your life for spiritual reasons, trying to remain righteous and learn in your unrighteous .

You foster no hope with the idea that my daughter would get through such a hard trial. This loss of hope and a view point of ridding of the life (that is a part of her btw) is sad to me, just as so you seeing that if she kept the child and raised it and showed it love, mercy, and grace would be sad to you for some reason.

You shouldnt live for yourself, my children have adapted to this idea and understand it. We make the best of life, we accept people into our lives to love, we share our home, food, what ever we can with others, we are strong enough to handle such an event.

If the right tools are offered, the right mindset to deal with it....there is no reason she wouldnt be ok. Would her life be different then others? Sure! Does that make it worse? Not always. Some of us become better people from the hardest catalyst. This world and experience is all about catalysts. You can let them brake you or make you.

We choice to let us make us who we are....be the best you can be always. Dont let another persons darkness cause you to create darkness.

Find the light in every soul....even a babe that is the result of a rape event. Its not the baby's fault. Having the abortion would be living for the flesh more the the spirit. The lesson may be much harder to learn if you decided on abortion.

Sure life it tough...such it up, chin up, foster hope. If something looks really hard...do we just not do it, just give up or give in....act in ways that wouldnt be normal for us to act? Well if you think this life is all you have, you life once and nothing after death happens....then you likely would live for the flesh...and make the decision based on feelings you want to escape and not face.

My best
LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo

There are always lessons. One of the hardest and truest lessons is acceptance and coping. How would anyone adjust to anything that was hard or unwanted in their life without skills to cope with it and adjust to it.

Accepting rape and loss of childhood is a good lesson to teach a thirteen year old girl? That's sick and twisted in my book.

I think you just to fast assumptions that my daughter would now be ruined due to my 'condemning' (your words, not mine) to NOT KILL LIFE even though life dealt her a harsh set of cards.

So it is more admirable to allow your daughter to accept rape and lose childhood by keeping a baby that would be a constant reminder to the evils committed against her?

Another lesson here....is love....for life. If you dont see any evidence for a Holy Spirit anywhere...then likely you wont understand how important it is to take life by the horns, dealing with it to your fullest potential....and live your life for spiritual reasons, trying to remain righteous and learn in your unrighteous .

Love for life that was begotten by an evil deed?

You foster no hope with the idea that my daughter would get through such a hard trial. This loss of hope and a view point of ridding of the life (that is a part of her btw) is sad to me, just as so you seeing that if she kept the child and raised it and showed it love, mercy, and grace would be sad to you for some reason.

I know of no rape victim that comes fully out of the experience intact without any psychological baggage.

You shouldnt live for yourself, my children have adapted to this idea and understand it. We make the best of life, we accept people into our lives to love, we share our home, food, what ever we can with others, we are strong enough to handle such an event.

You are to quick to assume that I do not do these thing's myself. I have been with my wife for twelve years now and through our whole life together we have helped many people despite some of those people backstabbing us.

reply to post by Siren


All of those verses are accusatory, they don't show Lucifer doing anything evil as God does thing's. Where is the genocide and murder and the threats by Lucifer himself? Why is everything about Lucifer nothing but accusatory in nature and not of his own word?

Obey the golden rule and you will not be evil. Evil is the opposite of the golden rule.

reply to post by earthdude


I don't buy that answer at all. If there is an embodiment of good and evil coming from the same one singular source, then it would be more reasonable to assume that becoming enlightened to this one singular source would call for being like this one singular source, both good and evil in equilibrium to one another. Why would enlightenment only consist of being at one end of a whole spectrum of morality?

Originally posted by earthdude
Obey the golden rule and you will not be evil. Evil is the opposite of the golden rule.

What if I shouted ot: PLEASE don't love me anymore, your love is evil! You sell my confessions to the elders in your hierarchies and they give it through corruption to the cops, and being of a different DNA, I may be shot!" in some racial war sgame....

reply to post by sirnex


Even if the cause of the effect was in fact evil intentions....yes, we should still remain righteous in our own actions. If not...then we lower ourselves to the vibration of the evil cause....sowing seeds in our own karma to reap later.

Life isnt about fixing and ridding....its about accepting and adjusting.

Yes, love all life...even if the cause of that life was an evil intention.

The ones who can find the light in the darkest of places are living for the spirit.

You can let it make you or brake you.

Two wrongs dont make a right. In such a critical situation, it would be foolish to assume that there is only one right way to handle the situation that would allow the person to heal better from it. Ive seen people never forgive themselves for taking a life.

When one can cherish the good and bad equally in life...because both formed who they are and what they have become...it shows acceptance and adjustment, which is traits of the highest level of ego development actually.

Im not saying its the absolute right thing to do...but that it would be my personal choice to not lower my own vibration by the temptation of someone else's actions.

When you believe that this life is not the life to live for...and that there is something more....its not so hard to see the need to sow good seeds that are sown with the belief that one is doing the RIGHT thing...not always the thing they WANT to do.

Great chatting with ya...thanks for the challenging thoughts!

reply to post by LeoVirgo


I had to give that one a star.

Great chatting with ya...thanks for the challenging thoughts!

I enjoyed this discussion as well, that last answer was excellent and I see nothing wrong in that answer. I would personally abort myself because I'm to involved with 'the flesh' as you put it. I believe it's part of who we are and that it's possible to live in equilibrium with good and evil, whatever forms they should take.

Had to give you a couple of stars there, you were so cute



Here's some flowers a couple of fish and some goji berries, they will change our lives and the world!

[edit on 30/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]