RFID Chip TV Commercial! Here it Comes!, page 4

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reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 03:27 PM by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Stanton Dowd

Have you seen the interview with Aaron Russo I posted in this thread a few posts back?

If not please go and watch it.

We're not nutjobs, we just don't want to be caught out!

Erm sense the sarcasm, i wasn't actuallly calling you nutjobs

. If i were then i'd have to include myself as i've been saying this was coming for years.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 03:30 PM by ImaginaryReality1984

I was just talking to a friend and she reminded me of something. When she worked at a popular UK clothing store the employees were required to put their hands in a machine to log their work hours. It scanned their veins and arteries and used that as a unique identification. It's a mainstream technology but the fact it exists and is being used for every employee of this company that works in a store is rather disturbing.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 03:33 PM by Stanton Dowd

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

No I didn't sense your sarcasm! I'm just too used to people thinking I'm a nutter!!!

What's the clothes store your friend worked for?

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 03:37 PM by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by myAboveTopSecret
1) The Chip only stores a 16-digit code.
Everything else is stored on their databases.
The chip is read-only.

That in itself lends to serious problems. The server then needs to be accessed which means having a large amount of people with keys, this leads to lax security. We have seen the same problem here in the UK with the proposed NHS database. The thing is so unsecure that they have gone over it again and again trying to fix it.

The human factor will always be the problem.

Originally posted by myAboveTopSecret
2) If the chip does not work it's your problem.

How is that a good thing? So if some scumbag manages to cause a malfunction in my chip then i'm in trouble? How is that fair or even resonable?

Originally posted by myAboveTopSecret
3) If someone steals your chip or creates one with the same number
they effectively become you, because the chip says so.

Yes i know that and that's why i don't want the chip. Furthermore it could easily be abused by government, remove your number from the system and you no longer exist, can't buy food, will no doubt get arrested as an illegal immigrant. Eventually people will get the message, shut up or get removed from society.

Originally posted by myAboveTopSecret
4) As mentioned in #1 the information is stored in their databases
not on the chip itself.

This is all well and good but refer to my point regarding the database.

Originally posted by myAboveTopSecret
5) You just need the right "problems" and people will line up voluntarily
to get their own chip.
Just make the process of paying with cards, cash and so own a little more
time consuming and a lot of people will get the chip "to save time"

I hate to believe this but sadly i think it's correct.

Originally posted by myAboveTopSecret
EDIT: What they mean by "deactivate the chip" is changing or deleting the entry in their database. Your chip is still fine, but somehow instead of having some money in your bank account you have a lot of debt or you don't even exist anymore (according to the database).

Yes and this is surely the big problem. When i hold 10 pounds in my hand, metal or paper, that at least can be exchanged for goods. I know many people here don't like paper money but at least it's tangible. With nothing but numbers on a screen you are an easy target for removal by political bullies.

Further i like to use cash to avoid all of those stupid junk mail companies. By using cash all the time i have hardly any junk mail.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 03:38 PM by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Stanton Dowd
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

No I didn't sense your sarcasm! I'm just too used to people thinking I'm a nutter!!!

What's the clothes store your friend worked for?

Fair enough but i would have thought my followup post where i criticise RFID would have suggesed something

I'm not sure ATS would allow me to mention the store, i don't know the rules on that.

EDIT

Ok you know what? If it's against ATS rules i don't care.

It was TK maxx, a common store in the UK.

Hang the rules, fight the pwoer!

[edit on 15-10-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 03:49 PM by Stanton Dowd

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Superb!

We have a TK Maxx by us at the Merry Hill Centre.

This will have to be looked in to!

I hope you're not winding me up! - I'll look a right prat when I go into TK Maxx and ask if they clock in using a machine that scans their arteries...

Back to our topic...

The whole subject of these RFID chips bothers me because of the "perception management".

There are people in this thread saying how good it would be.

Maybe I'm missing something.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Stanton Dowd]

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 03:58 PM by Massgirl

I'd like to know who comes up with these ideas and who are the people that stand around and say... hey.. thats a great idea? WTF!!?

No human should ever be chipped!

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 04:00 PM by ELFowl

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by Stanton Dowd

You guys are all conspiracy nutjobs. I mean yeah ok for years you predicted this and it came true, but that doesn't make you right!

The problems with RFID chips are numerous.

1) If this thing stores my medical records then how can they stop anyone getting them? The encryption on the chips is rather poor.

2) Whats to stop someone burning out the chip via a concentrated pulse of radio waves, leaving me without ID!

3) Whats to stop someone cutting this thing out of my arm and using it to buy stuff? Currently there is no way to engineer them to detect that it isn't in a human body. A casing could be designed to degrade once it meets air but that could be gotten around.

4) If the chips store details of medications then how can it be easily updated by doctors whilst remaining secure? Think about it, every time you see the doctor and your medication is changed you will need that chip updated. This means it needs to be easy to write to and as already stated the encryption for these chips sucks.

5) Privacy. The very idea of a chip being forced under my skin that can be used to track me every time i walk by a scanner is deeply disturbing. I have nothing to hide, i don't mind someone knowing where i am really but it just feels creepy. Human beings need privacy, it is part of our social makeup. I would say that when this chip is mandatory we will see a rise in paranoid psychosis.

I believe your fourth point is inaccurate on how RFID tech works. The chip itself does not get updated, or written to, nor does it store real data. I think it simply emits a unique 16-digit number, and the actual information related to your health records, etc are then pulled up via their computer databases where all the information is stored. The info is not in the chip, but rather the chip just stores your ID number and the data is in actual computer databases.

I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that is fundamentally how the RFID system works.

Just like a credit card with the magnetic strip. The card itself doesn't hold information on your account balance, purchase history, etc... it simply provides a unique ID number which the computer database pulls up after identifying your card.

All in all, I see RFID as a logical and expected step in technology. They already have supermarkets in some areas that are using RFID as we speak. All the products have built-in RFID chips. Customers all have their RFID 'supermarket membership' card, and you can simply load your cart and walk out the door to your car and the RFID sensors automatically know what you walked out with and automatically charge your account.

The very real and very scary thing is a a fundamental loss of freedom when this technology will be used to pinpoint any human being's location anywhere on earth. There will be no escape if the authorities come looking for you. Remote RFID sensors will pick up your signal and they will know exactly where you are.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 04:03 PM by myAboveTopSecret

The problem with RFID is that they are so tiny.
You can hide them everywhere.

Regular Joe will never know that he is walking around with RFID chips,
because they are not easy to detect.

Does anyone know where to get an already-assembled RFID tag finder/reader?
The only ones I can find are for you to assemble or the expensive ones for commercial use.
Not very user-friendly

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 04:13 PM by Stanton Dowd

reply to post by myAboveTopSecret

You can get them off ebay for next to nothing.

There are one or two RFID hacking vids on youtube.

It's every reason to encourage people to becoming geeks - the technologies are only as strong as their weakest link.

The hackers on this planet can always crack into whatever they need to and I think the time is coming where people will really aspire to that level.

The only thing is, it will be done quietly - bred out of our generation - our kids kids will probably be chipped and not know any different. Now that's wrong and bloody scary.

But what can we do? So many people have a united mindset but have no method of doing anything about it, because of the controllers - th rule makers.

People were never so close yet so apart with no control.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 04:19 PM by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Stanton Dowd
The hackers on this planet can always crack into whatever they need to and I think the time is coming where people will really aspire to that level.

I know you're not attacking hackers, but we're not all bad

I'm more of a physical hacker, locks and safes being my key interest but i have done the odd bit of tech hacking and yes, RFID will be thoroughly hacked. First it will be people like myself, just wanting to figure out how things work and how we can make them better, simple curiosity. After that the criminals will come in, messing with things for their own gain.

Originally posted by Stanton Dowd
This will have to be looked in to!

I hope you're not winding me up! - I'll look a right prat when I go into TK Maxx and ask if they clock in using a machine that scans their arteries...

Lol i promise you this is what she said emploees did. They would arrive at work, stick their hand on/in a scanner and it checked their profile against a stored one. Whether or not most of the employees know how that machine works i'm not sure. My friend was studying to become an engineer so she got curious and asked

Now the manager himself may have not known how it works, maybe it was a simple hand recognition scanner, the kind that maps the shape, lines etc. The manager told her it needed a live hand however that may have been a alie.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 04:23 PM by Kevinquisitor

Imagine when government health reform is in full effect. They'll make this thing mandatory for all people enrolled in their plan.

I guarantee it.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 04:39 PM by Stanton Dowd

reply to post by Kevinquisitor

This is very true. There is already a good thread on ATS that cites drafts of the health care bill that says a chip would be needed to make the system work!

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 04:40 PM by SpaceMonkeys

I cant believe some of the comments on youtube, people still calling others nutjobs and saying its good and nothing to worry about. Some people must be so asleep theyre in a coma.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 04:43 PM by myAboveTopSecret

Originally posted by Stanton Dowd
reply to post by myAboveTopSecret

You can get them off ebay for next to nothing.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to find one that meets all the criteria:

Already assembled
Easy to use
Able to detect/read ALL RFID tags (Yes, there are different ones)
Cheap or reasonably priced

Optional features:

Connect to PC (USB)
Store data from RFID tags the device found
Write data back to rewriteable RFID tags

EDIT: If someone can point out a good device for me that would be nice

Originally posted by Kevinquisitor
Imagine when government health reform is in full effect. They'll make this thing mandatory for all people enrolled in their plan.

I guarantee it.

Pretty obvious move on their side, isn't it?

[edit on 15-10-2009 by myAboveTopSecret]

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 04:45 PM by ImaginaryReality1984

reply to post by myAboveTopSecret

It's pretty easy to figure out all of those parts. There are tons of internet forums dedicated to electronics. Go and build one, it won't be to hard, maybe a months work if you're not familiar with the tech.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 05:01 PM by Critical_Mass

Originally posted by myAboveTopSecret
The problem with RFID is that they are so tiny.
You can hide them everywhere.

Regular Joe will never know that he is walking around with RFID chips,
because they are not easy to detect.

You can jam them and not worry about them altogether.
but that's all I am going to say.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Critical_Mass]

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 05:19 PM by masterp

Originally posted by MajesticJax
Can you imagine HOW drug dealers, terrorists, criminals in general, would OPERATE without this?

This would ELIMINATE an IMMENSE amount of crime, OVERNIGHT, if these were implanted, and used for all transactions.

That's how TPTB are gonna sell this demon to us. It's ALWAYS problem=reaction=solution to get what they want.

It is also going to eliminate a lot of different opinions - any one with a different opinion to the masters will have his/her chip removed, and then good luck, trying to live without one.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 05:22 PM by masterp

I forgot to say: they can chip me, but only if I am DEAD.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 05:22 PM by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Critical_Mass
You can jam them and not worry about them altogether.
but that's all I am going to say.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Critical_Mass]

To jam a device means you either overload or confuse the receiving machine. There is a far simpler way of stopping RFID chips from transmitting. Simply cover them in tin foil (ok yes insert tin foil hat jokes here) and the signal will be blocked. You don't need a full Faraday cage. I have made this point to anyone who carries an RFID card in their pocket to access a building. A simple walk and swipe is enough to copy it and get access to said building, but covering the card in foil means no one can do this.