Why would anyone take us seriously?

We do not carry ourselves in a manner conducive to helping anyone come around to our line of thought. (that being that we are not told thhe truth--the whole truth, and there are many things that should be questioned)

I remember when name calling and cursing were not allowd on ATS. When someone would get into trouble for substituting one different letter in a curse word so that it would pass the filters. Remember when calling people names just because they they are still ignorant to the idea that we are routinely lied to? I do. I remember when this site stood for truth and denying ignorance. I miss that. Why on earth would anyone listen to what we are saying here when it is not uncommon to see things like:

"i can't belive you are so stupid.
second line"

or

"people who still think that way deserve to die"

and so on and so on. Imagine you are curious and starting to question MSM, so you look into seriously investigating the claims made on TV and look some things up for yourself. You hear about this website forum that is sopposed to be a serious forum where these things can be discussed intelligently. And you look at the headlines here and they read something similar to this:

"Religion must die!"
"Bush a reptillian? Here's proof!"
"It's time to revolt America"
"Never underestimate the stupidity of the masses"

those are just a few examples of real headlines and articles on here. Now look, can you imagine your uptight relative or friend who is a smart person but otherwise naive to the amount of deception they receive daily, can you imagine that person seeing this kind of garbage and actually taking us seriously? Can anyone tell me one way that this kind of conduct helps our cause? Now, who can tell me ways it HURTS our cause? Who can tell me a few ways that we are HELPING the secrecy agenda with this behavior? If we don't take ourselves seriously, then those who have not yet been woke up will not either. We look like a bunch of unstable potty mouths.

I swear a lot. I am extremely vulgar when i am around my friends. But i do not bring that here, because even though it should not, it does give the impression that one is shallow and uncouth, and dare i say it STUPID. How serious would we take someone in power if when asked about a new bill he simply said, "It sucks, anyone who would vote on this bill deserves whateer they get, i mean, it's so dumb."

That is what some of you sound like. We need to stop this trend. Part of denying ignorance is helping other people take the wool from over their eyes. We seem to have given up on that. Now it seems that we just like to call them names "sheeple" and such more than we want to help them. We are that snobby kid who thinks he is better than everyone else.

Also, not everyone reads conspiracy sites and alternative news, or even deep research into well known areas, such as the existance of water on the moon. I use this as an example because it is recent and i saw a lot of the conduct i talked about there.

no, it was not a secret that water existed on the moon in small amounts.

no, NASA was not "hiding" it's existance.
BUT

no, it was not COMMON KNOWLEDGE, quit saying things like "it's been well known"
9 out of 10 people had no idea that the moon had any water. AT LEAST 9 out of 10. This is not a scientific poll, i just read the many articles that poped up on the internet. ALMOST every article contained a headline like "Confirmed:there is water on the moon" or "Moon not as dry as we have always thought"
these headlines were on MAJOR sites, so if this was big news to these "learned" individuals, then that can accurately be compared to the general public and our awareness of the presence of water on the moon. I Saw zero articles that said this:
"BIG WHOOP: India tells us what everyone already knew"

so please please stop acting like this is no big deal, you and I may have read some of those articles in the years past that hinted at water, but we are a very small portion folks, NOT EVERYONE RESEARCHES THIS STUFF BELIEVE IT OR NOT
The presence of water on the moon (however small) radically changed the way 95% of people thought of our solar system overnight! Almost everyone believed the moon to be completely bone dry, and India of all places, a poor country with an infant space program, changed this view. My question is this: Why didn't NASA make this as big a deal as India when they discovered this years ago? It certainly is good news for India's space program, the media attention they have gained, i bet they will not have any problems increasing their budget next year, so why did NASA treat this as a non-issue? Why was it NEWS to 9 out of 10 folks? Wouldn't they want the attention and the increse in funds for such a discovery?
who knows? This thread isn't about solving this issue, it's simply meant to show just how snobby we have become here. I personally know 3 people who discoved ATS BECAUSE of this discovery of water on the moon by India. These folks thought that NASA had not been forthcoming in this at all, and they wanted to find out what else NASA might have "played with" (not hidden, or lied, but changed in a way that hides it in plain view) and it lead them to ATS. Imagine their disappointment when they look into the main article to see most of you here telling other readers that you knew this for years, it was old new, no big deal, quit being so excited. One of these friends outright told me that he believed some of you must work for NASA or some other agency who wants to make this a non-issue.
Now i don't know about all of that, but it was very dissapointing to see our reaction here:
"move along folks nothing to see here, but look at this mars cricket, now there's something to be amazed at!"
POint is: BABY STEPS.
becoming awakened is a slow and delicate process that must be done in baby steps. All of the conduct and examples i have provided here would hinder anyone trying to make those first steps.
I'll get off my soap box now, this has just been bothering me REALLY BAD lately.
publius

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Enigma Publius


You know, you just hung a big sign around your neck that says: Kick Me!

Now, don't think that many here won't find something familiar in what you're saying. A lot of BS goes on here but it is part of the landscape, not some toxic bilge that doesn't belong.

It's like life in general. You will find a lot of things you don't personally agree with or like but... it's not entirely your world so you don't have anymore say in how it's run that the guy next to you.

What you should perhaps consider is starting a board of your own and make it exclusive for those who agree with your concept of debate. There, you would have the final call and what you read would be what you wanted to read.

Best

Originally posted by Nassim Haramein
I can't believe you're so stupid

LOL
Nah but seriously I feel were you are comming from OP, people just like to show their emotions in some of the ways they type. I dont think it meens this site wont be taken serious if anything it may get peoples points across on how they truely feel.

This site draws idiots with mental problems. Is that the "us" you are refering to? Many people do not understand logic or reason. They will spew out theories and claim they are facts. There is no way of making them understand. If you try to prove your point you will get banned from the site as a hoaxer. They don't even allow 3 hoaxes like the regs state, they just kick you off.

reply to post by Nassim Haramein


wow ...that was easily discernable as sarcasm. Did you even read the OP MOD?

reply to post by redoubt


well aas for the "kick me" sign, oh well, i can take it. I fully encourage anyone who doesn't like my views to tell me so, i have no issue whatsoever with someone's opinion being different than mine. But the thing is, it's not JUST mine, these are the non spoken rules of debate. I was never on a debate team, but i am sure that part of being taken seriously is conducting yourself in an intelligent manner. Can anyone argue with that?
i used to have the same opinion as you, that basicly everyone is entitled to an opinion and can express it however they choose, and i still believe that. What i am saying is, it goes deeper. SUre, you can say it however you wish, but that doesn't mean anyone will listen. To get people to listen (especially people who hold a radically different opinion) you must stay somewhat cival and intelligent. Our site motto is deny ignorance right? Does that not include helping others become enlightened? Or are we satisfied with our numbers and now we want to alienate ourselves from the rest of the world? Is there ever too much TRUTH? Is there not always room for more? By acting childish and saying things like "anyone who still believes the official 9/11 story is an idiot" we are virtually guranteeing that that individual will never come around. It may seem very obvious to us, i know it does to me, that something is wrong with the official story, but a lot of folks just have not been exposed to enough (or any) compelling evidence. Why would anyone support the idea of acting like a 6th grader and the name calling?
phrases like "the 9/11 official story is bullsh!t" does NOT make you look like a credible source. You are acting exacly how the secrecy agenda wants you to act, you are playing right into their hands. Can't ya'll see that? They don't need disinfo agents, you do the work for them!
and as for the comment that maybe that is the only way to get someone's attention, you don't really believe that do you?
that's so stupid.
did that work?

reply to post by Enigma Publius


Simple.

It's easier to hate, flame, rebuke someone just by saying that they are stupid.

It takes honest thought, an EFFORT to discuss, debate, to use that little bit of grey matter between the ears.

Not so many want to make the effort.

Originally posted by Enigma Publius
You hear about this website forum that is sopposed to be a serious forum where these things can be discussed intelligently. And you look at the headlines here and they read something similar to this:

"Religion must die!"
....
those are just a few examples of real headlines and articles on here.

Thank you for plugging my thread and for this grand opportunity to speak out.


The title "Religion Must Die" is part of a quote from Maher's video.


While interviewing a religious politico, Maher asks: "If you believe that the world will come to an end any day now, does it not drain one's motivation to improve life on earth while we are here?"


Is that not a subject for a serious forum? Do you not think that question is worthy of intelligent discussion?



Maher goes on to give his view. He says:

"Religion must die for mankind to live.

The hour is getting late to be able to indulge in having key decisions made by religious people, by irrationalists; by those who would steer the ship of state, not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken."


Would you care to discuss this further?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by earthdude
This site draws idiots with mental problems. Is that the "us" you are refering to? Many people do not understand logic or reason. They will spew out theories and claim they are facts. There is no way of making them understand. If you try to prove your point you will get banned from the site as a hoaxer. They don't even allow 3 hoaxes like the regs state, they just kick you off.

I *do* consider the "idiots with mental problems" to be part of the "us" that we call ATS. The terms you use indicate utter disrespect, and are exactly what (I believe) OP is talking about. Many people are uninformed. Many more are misinformed. Many cannot reason well, have little education, have had little opportunity to learn. Many think they already know; those you can't help. Just make sure you're not one of them.

It sounds like you're complaining about being kicked off for being a hoaxer. I'm wondering whether it was because you referred to people as "idiots with mental problems". I encourage you to consider the possibility that you were banned for being seriously disrespectful to people who didn't agree with you. Not saying it was, but it wouldn't be a shock if that was it.

You really don't have to convince everyone (or anyone) of your ideas. Sure, it's nice to get folks to agree with you. But most won't. There is nothing wrong with just putting out your facts, answering objections calmly, and then letting people decide. And if they still don't believe your pearls of wisdom, isn't that their loss?

I love it when people disagree with me, especially when they present good arguments and facts. I learn a lot that way. One of the things I learn is how often I'm wrong about things, or how little I actually know about anything. Even if I happen to be right about an issue, I can still often learn from those who disagree. If nothing else, I've clarified my beliefs in my own mind, by explaining them to someone else. Either way, I win.

reply to post by mikerussellus


yes, it takes more work to disagree in an intelligent manner. I give major props to all our truthers and skeptics alike who follow these unspokem rules. But it did pain me to see some of those skeptics (i won't name them and call them out) who have a lot of weight here on ATS using that weight to make the moon thing seem so insignificant. One fellow whom i deeply respect said many things that on top, were correct, but still misleading. Like saying it was not big news because reports were published in the 90's hinting at the water. That is true on the surface, but dig deeper to find that it was not front page news and did not change our populations view on the moon and the solar system in a matter of hours like India's announcement did. If it WAS so widely known then this wouldn't have been such a big deal, instead it was one of the biggest discoveries ever in space exploration. We need to stop using facts to twist the impact of something else. Also, i was dissapointed with the amount af "believers" who took the discovery news as "proof" that NASA lies to us and what have you. They may or may not lie to us, but this example is not proof of a lie, nor is it proof that they do not try to hise anything. Any smart individual will see both sides of this complex issue and try to understand the WHOLE concept, not just the part that is convenient to our agenda. Your tunnel vision hurts the entire ATS community when a newbie browses our site and discovers that we re nurturing ignorance instead of denying it.

reply to post by Alethea


i will only discuss it in terms of the headline, because that was what i was refering to. I am not a religious person anymore, i used to be, but i have changfed my mind on a lot of that. I will be a shining example of what i am striving for here though by admitting that i never read your thread, and i had no idea what it was about. But the title itself would turn away many people would it not? Do you think you really helped your agenda with that title? Did you change anyone's mind or get them thinking differently with that?
I just want honest, intelligent debates. I can admit that i never read that article, it might be a great thread, but the provacative title is going to immeadiately turn off those who are religious, and as for those who aren't, you already had them. I made no claim whatsoever to the contents of that thread, only the title, and i still stand by everything i have said.
with respect,
publius

Ok ok - guilty!

Now come here and give me a big hug!!

Its ok - its np - sure, there's a lot of different levels of knowledge on ATS - but it does stink when people who are horribly ignorant, and the posts they make actually CREATE ignorance - not to get offended by them.

Especially when they have been around for a long time - and especially when they like to make out they an expert, or call on authority - or quote garbage mainstream news opinions as sources.

When I'm offended by someones stupidity or ignorance - I like to let them know in the first line of my post - that doesn't usually preclude me from making an intelligent rebuttal.

Originally posted by chiron613

Originally posted by earthdude
This site draws idiots with mental problems. Is that the "us" you are refering to? Many people do not understand logic or reason. They will spew out theories and claim they are facts. There is no way of making them understand. If you try to prove your point you will get banned from the site as a hoaxer. They don't even allow 3 hoaxes like the regs state, they just kick you off.

I *do* consider the "idiots with mental problems" to be part of the "us" that we call ATS. The terms you use indicate utter disrespect, and are exactly what (I believe) OP is talking about. Many people are uninformed. Many more are misinformed. Many cannot reason well, have little education, have had little opportunity to learn. Many think they already know; those you can't help. Just make sure you're not one of them.

It sounds like you're complaining about being kicked off for being a hoaxer. I'm wondering whether it was because you referred to people as "idiots with mental problems". I encourage you to consider the possibility that you were banned for being seriously disrespectful to people who didn't agree with you. Not saying it was, but it wouldn't be a shock if that was it.

You really don't have to convince everyone (or anyone) of your ideas. Sure, it's nice to get folks to agree with you. But most won't. There is nothing wrong with just putting out your facts, answering objections calmly, and then letting people decide. And if they still don't believe your pearls of wisdom, isn't that their loss?

I love it when people disagree with me, especially when they present good arguments and facts. I learn a lot that way. One of the things I learn is how often I'm wrong about things, or how little I actually know about anything. Even if I happen to be right about an issue, I can still often learn from those who disagree. If nothing else, I've clarified my beliefs in my own mind, by explaining them to someone else. Either way, I win.

my thoughts exactly chiron. I too consider all those individuals "us". and i also believe that it is a win/win situation in the scenario you described. I'm relieved that my thoughts translated into typed words good enough for you to make a correct assumption at what i was talking about. I sometimes have trouble transfering my thoughts to written word, something is lost in the process, but if your response in an indication of how well i did, then i am happy!

Originally posted by Enigma Publius
but the provacative title is going to immeadiately turn off those who are religious, and as for those who aren't, you already had them. publius

That makes sense.
Thanks for the tip. (I really have a hard time with coming up with titles.)

I have now changed the title to "if the world's going to end...why change anything?"...or something like that.

I am curious to see if it will make any difference in response.

Hm. Isn't it true that the owners and moderators have done everything short of getting down on their virtual hands and knees and begging us to use the alert button when we see this type thing?

They don't catch everything. They admit it. They've asked for our help.

As a member of ATS I do appreciate your concern for the site.

But I do not appreciate your tone. Nor do I appreciate a lecture from you.

That is a moderators job and not yours.

I do forgive you for writing to us as if we were 11 years old. I honestly think you would be a good candidate for a youth worker
or school teacher. You deliver your feelings well.

My old pappy told me something I'll never forget. He said, "The masses are asses". And I have found that to be true.

I understand the need for civility but I also know that in the stew of life a bit of spice keeps it more palatable.

As hard as we try we will not wake up everyone. We will never have a board that is completely civilized 100% of the time.

Never will we be free of members with vivid imaginations.

Variety is the spice of life. You will learn to like it or you will one day not come back here.

I hope you can learn to be more tolerant of us.

This would be a very boring site if it was a "just the facts and nothing else" type of board.

Again, I appreciate your concern.

reply to post by Alethea


LOL. that's a good title.
seriously though, it is something to consider. I assume that you believe that in this day and age we have a peverse relationship where old age ideas are mixed with new age weapons of destruction, where the thought that a single dewy-eyed suicide bomber can kill thousands at once for his God is very real and scary. I agree with that completely.
But with a title like "religion must die" how exactly are you going to be able to help change that? Who are you trying to convince? Many religious folks will not read an article like that, and those are the folks we really need to reach and help realize that religious ideals and leaders of the people do not mix. So i guess it depends on what you want out of an article. Do you really want to change a trend you see happening , to change it for the betterment of all people.....or do you want to cause a stir and get a lot of ATS points for responses? I admit that because this is written word and i cannot see your expressions, that i cannot tell if you are being sarcastic with me or not. I am writing this in belief that it was sarcasm, and i am still trying to help you find a way to reach a larger audience with your belief. If you were being sincere, then i am glad we understand that the larger picture is more important.
either way, i am glad that you present yourself in a respectful manner, and i wish more people here could follow suit, whatever their belief.

Hey brother!

Was looking up some of your threads and found this one to be very interesting.

Over the past couple of weeks I have joined a couple other forums to share some things with other people. It didnt take long for me to miss ATS. I was called names, people would say things to the effect of that I knew they were just bored out of their mind and were responding just to be arse's. As I came back to ATS, I saw that even though ATS is not as bad as those other sites, we still defiantly have some that are here just do to boredom and they need a place to spout off to others that dont see things their way.

An intelligent conversation should not belittle someone that is not agreeing with another. An intelligent conversation, that wants to be taken seriously, should present itself as worthy of discussion without making others feel like they are 'stupid' 'naive' ect. As much as I would love to see every convo here at ATS be these intelligent conversations that would draw in more to our crowd, we will always have those bored egotistical who feel better after telling someone their way or idea is 'stupid'.

I hate the word stupid so much it is not allowed in my home (I think you know this, being my brother). I see no reason to belittle someone for their thoughts.

Even though ATS has some of this here....it is not as bad as other sites. I would encourage others though, if you want to be taken seriously, dont use words that make you look as if your so full of yourselves, and others are just so 'stupid'.

Did I say how much I hate that word?

Great topic!
Luv ya

I think a great amount of the problem is also the fact that there is absolutely no way to actually prune the Lunatic Fringe articles from the site via consensus.

I mean, we have the star and flag options, and that is a lovely way to drive attention to something, but lets be honest here: most of the stuff that gets to the front page is pure and utter tripe. It gets there because it is sufficiently ludicrous that for some reason it attracts the crazy members like a moths to a fire and they star and flag the hell out of it.

I would very much like to see something along the lines of an "Anti-flag" option to counteract the flags, so that things like "Born into the bloodlines and went rogue" don't stay on the front page for days. Just something so the users can counter the attention such threads get and re-direct it to more important topics.

Yes, a long time ago this was not an issue. The site has grown however, and with it we have attracted a large number of fringe users (to be kind about it). We Need some sort of system where we can vote negatively on threads to prevent them gathering undue amounts of attention and making the site seem silly, hopefully inciting their owners to go back to Godlike Productions.