Spanking may lower kids' IQs

Originally posted by Sargon of Akkad
Yes. The only reason your brother is stupid is because he was physically punished. That is the only, single reason, and if it wasn't for that, he would have cured cancer by now. [/irony]

I'm sorry, I really am, but some people are just not that smart. It's a fact of life. It's how we get averages. And your brother just happens to be one of these people.

No, I don't think that's the ONLY reason that he's a bit behind intellectually. But I do think that its a very big reason why..

He was ridiculed, belittled and border-line abused by my father. (to 'man' him up?)
I was always uplifted, admired and encouraged to be my best by him.

He was spanked for no very good reason most times (in my eyes anyway).
I was ONLY spanked in the most dire situations (two really bad things I did.. ).

The point is; lack of encouragement + senseless spankings = someone who doesn't really respect themselves..

My father really thought he was making my brother stronger, but he only wore his spirit down by rough handling. He had pure intentions, I suppose, but he now realizes that he made a HUGE mistake -- and he is wrapped in guilt over how he turned out..

There *ARE* negative consequences for mistreating your child (spanking is mistreatment), instead of investing positive time teaching them and loving them.

And you can inspire discipline in your kids WITHOUT hitting them!

- Mea

[edit on 25-9-2009 by Veritas Lux Mea]

Originally posted by double_frick

Originally posted by yeahright
Correlation does not imply causality. You'd think they'd know that. Apparently the people doing the study used to get walloped pretty frequently.

well seems more that there is a new agenda to coax parents into coddling their children into criminals.

It just amazes me that people some how file away in their minds a correlation between not spanking your child and the child turning into criminals. Studies show that most criminals, were spanked as children. mmm hmmm yep, most criminals were spanked as children.

Discipline without spanking is not "coddling", it is teaching your child without violence.

I agree that all children, ALL children need discipline.

Many children regard spanking as a frightening act of terrorism.

Studies conducted over many decades have shown that even a minor amount of spanking during childhood is correlated with increases in alcoholism, other drug abuse, clinical anxiety and depression during adulthood.

For those of you who say "I was spanked as a child, and I turned out all right." -

Perhaps you turned out all right in spite of being spanked and not because of being spanked. It could be that things would have been even better if the effective alternatives to spanking which do exist had been used.

Studies show that over 60% of families still use physical punishment to discipline children. Yet, the research shows that: physical punishment is associated with an increase in delinquency, antisocial behavior, and aggression in children; and physical punishment is associated with a decrease in the quality of the parent-child relationship, mental health, and the child's capacity to internalize socially acceptable behavior. Adults who have been subject to physical punishment as children are more likely to abuse their own child or spouse and to manifest criminal behavior

So, if 60% of families still use physical punishment, then why the number of criminals in prison? If physical punishment kept children from growing up to be criminals, then being that 60% of parents spank, we should have 60% less criminals, but we don't, we have MORE.

Spanking is a euphemism for hitting. One is not permitted to hit one's spouse or a stranger; these actions are considered domestic violence and/or assault. Nor should one be permitted to hit a smaller and even more vulnerable child. Hitting a child elicits precisely the feelings one does not want to generate in a child: distress, anger, fear, shame, and disgust. Studies show that children who are hit will "identify with the aggressor," and they are more likely to become hitters themselves, i.e., bullies and future abusers of their children and spouses. They tend to learn to use violent behavior as a way to deal with disputes.

Anyway, all I can ask is for those who are proponents of hitting their children stop and think for a little while.

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

Originally posted by double_frick

Originally posted by yeahright
Correlation does not imply causality. You'd think they'd know that. Apparently the people doing the study used to get walloped pretty frequently.

well seems more that there is a new agenda to coax parents into coddling their children into criminals.

The shining light of common sense appears.

As I said before, I guess all the people who built the world we live (our ancestors) were idiots and raised their children violently, because they sure as hell smacked and beat their kids. Especialy for being disrespectful to eldars. And you know what, our society was safer and more respectful than today but I'm sure all the tough love dealt out back then had nothing to do with it.

this is blowing me away... people actually believe that criminal behaviour comes about because these people didn't get spanked as a child?

Well obviously that is the case: because their parents likely weren't around to discipline them. Most of the people serving sentences come from broken homes and/or had parents that they never saw or even met; and thus likely had no love, support, and mentoring at key points in their childhood/teen years.

i'm not saying that all criminal behavior comes out of NOT spanking kids...
i think a good amount comes from children who got spanked as well...

i forget who said above, but someone pretty much said, 'different strokes for different folks.'

i do think that making parents who would find benefit in swatting little johnny on the behind when nothing else seemed to work are bullied into thinking they are "terrorizing" their children for doing something done for centuries to children and not in a hateful 'violent' way...

i don't think either way is the right way, but i do think that research implying they've found scientific proof either way is incredibly irresponsible. and false.

parents should be allowed to parent their child how they know best without worrying that their methods are going to be criticized or even called "abuse" for spanking their children. its ridiculous.

my only point about not spanking=criminals was...it seems the youth today have less comprehension of consequences...

Originally posted by eldard
Yes. A whopping 2.8 points. Whopteedoo!

If this it true, though, how come American kids are still stupid? (It's would HAVE, not would OF!

)

BTW, I see a gain of two hundred thosand in America's prison population as the idiot American parent follows the advise of this study.

You are stereotyping kids in America by saying they are all stupid....by saying "American kids" I take it to mean all, just so you know

I know many kids who have been spanked and not spanked and some are on the same level and some arent. I dont believe spanking has anything to do with IQ. Personally I think labeling someone based on IQ is a bit stupid IMO. I have a really high IQ but it doesnt mean I am any smarter than the next person. Everyone is an individual and everyone sees things in many different ways. Those tests IMO dont show a darn thing about ones intelligence. Who are we to say what is smart and what isnt? Its a silly useless test. Spanking IMO is fine. I was spanked and I turned out fine. My sister, brother and I were spanked and boy did my mom love her spoon and we ALL turned out completely different in terms of smarts.

Here is the problem...the media has portrayed anyone who spanks thier kid as a child abuser. This is absurd and assanine at best. I have spanked my daughter 2 times. Once when 3 and once when 6. Both times she was not listening and treading into a situation that could have killed her. Do I feel bad , yes. But the fact that she is alive and that she will not recreate that behavior tends to ease my pain. In the past 10 years+ we have seen a balooning of kids with little or no respect, common sense, or down right anger towards grownups. Why? It seems to coincide with this push to stop correcting kids. I don't advocate walloping kids however I don;t advocate letting kids run rampant either. My daughter just took an IQ test to get into AP classes as well as gifterd classes. Wow she was only 5 points outside of mine at my age when I got into gifted. I guess those 5 points are because I wopped her on the but for trying to stick a pen in a lightsocket huh? You want to see why kids need to be spanked? Check out Break.com or YouTube.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by djvexd]

[edit on 25-9-2009 by djvexd]

[edit on 25-9-2009 by djvexd]

[edit on 25-9-2009 by djvexd]

Originally posted by Mathius
this is blowing me away... people actually believe that criminal behaviour comes about because these people didn't get spanked as a child?

Well obviously that is the case: because their parents likely weren't around to discipline them. Most of the people serving sentences come from broken homes and/or had parents that they never saw or even met; and thus likely had no love, support, and mentoring at key points in their childhood/teen years.

Its not just spanking, its discipline straight and simple whatever form it comes in. I'm not saying spanking is the only form that works, if a "time out" works for your kid all the better not to have to spank them, but some require firmer discipline. I would have laughed at a "time out" when I was a kid, spanking was required to get it to sink in.

However, if people cannot put 2 and 2 togethar and realise our societie's crime, immorality, and disprespect for others isn't a direct result of poor parenting and discipline, I expect the world is going to become a much worse place than it already has become.

The empire is crumbling at the heel of extreme libral ideology.

Originally posted by djvexd
In the past 10 years+ we have seen a balooning of kids with little or no respect, common sense, or down right anger towards grownups. Why? It seems to coincide with this push to stop correcting kids. I don't advocate walloping kids however I don;t advocate letting kids run rampant either.

Yes, but there are other HIGHLY EFFECTIVE ways of getting your point across.

I think it all boils down to how much a parent wants to LEARN. The ones who hit their kids mostly haven't taken the time to learn and impliment better strategies, I think..

When I was getting into trouble, I BEGGED my dad to spank me instead of ground me or talk with me about it. Why? Because the pain of spanking stopped after 2-3 minutes (and didn't leave an impression on me).. but grounding me and making me APOLOGIZE for my wrongdoing was worse because it actually required more effort on my part.

Spanking is the easy way out.. its benifits (if any) are ONLY short-term and only causes MORE problems in the long run..

- Mea

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
However, if people cannot put 2 and 2 togethar and realise our societie's crime, immorality, and disprespect for others isn't a direct result of poor parenting and discipline, I expect the world is going to become a much worse place than it already has become.

There are OTHER ways of discipline besides 'time out' and spanking. Have you ever heard of taking time with the children? Children who have lots of 1-on-1 attention, connect better with their caretakers and respect them enough to listen.

That cuts down on disciplinary measures GREATLY right there. Just getting their trust first..

Yes, the problem with the world is lack of discipline. But another problem with the world is abuse.

There's a fine line.. but it CAN and should be done.

All it takes is taking MORE TIME with your kids.. from day one.. and not pushing them off onto a babysitter or their grandparents. We need to BE parents, not just a firm hand when things get tough..

- Mea

My old man must've pounded a Nobel Prize in physics out of me 2 times over. But I've never been arrested convicted of a felony.

Thanks, dad.

Looks like pseudo science to me...

Maybe children with lower IQ scores on average represent a class of children more likely to consistently misbehave...

That being said, I'm generally not an advocate of spanking for bad behavior. There are other effective disciplinary techniques.

I will say, however, that I am far less concerned about spanking when it involves something the child has done that represents a real danger to the child or others.

Finally, abuse is NEVER acceptable.

My $0.02.

reply to post by Veritas Lux Mea


But any psychologist will tell you that not all kids can be handled by the same method. That is the misconception. Physiology as well plays a role in behavioral traits. Sometimes talking or taking away a toy or even timeouts aren't enough to drive the point home.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


coming from the perspective of a son, you scare me. If that's the kind of respect you are talking about, then you have it.

Originally posted by Veritas Lux Mea
There are OTHER ways of discipline besides 'time out' and spanking. Have you ever heard of taking time with the children? Children who have lots of 1-on-1 attention, connect better with their caretakers and respect them enough to listen.

Discipline occurs after the child commits a wrong. Taking time with your children is common sense and should happen not as form of discipline but as a good form of parenting.

The obsession with revenge-based justice is one of the main reasons the world is so violent.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Discipline occurs after the child commits a wrong. Taking time with your children is common sense and should happen not as form of discipline but as a good form of parenting.

Yes, but my point is; children are LESS LIKELY to misbehave in the first place if they have all of their needs met.

Love, attention, security, trust.. these are all needs of a child.

Don't fulfill their basic needs? Then OF COURSE they will misbehave.

I say a little prevention goes a long way!

Ensure their needs are well met first, and you'll have a MUCH better child on your hands. And other 'lesser' forms of discipline (like time out) work exceptionally well.

- Mea

I commend a lot of you regarding the non violence line of thinking. I really do. But I will tell you what....when you son's hand is fast approaching a hot grill (cause no matter how many times you have explained to him, its damn hot and WILL burn you, there is that little curiosity voice saying "Maybe dad isn't right, lets find out) and at that point you have two choices.........

A: Let your son possibly get severly burned as he places his hand on the grill

or

B: You smack that hand, his butt, the back of the head.....not in a violent way, in a way that gets the attention.

There is a difference when trying to grab the attention of the child and being violent towards the child.

**EDIT FOR CLARITY**
I in no way condone the mindless actions of just smacking a child, on the rear or where ever just willy nilly though.

My point is some children (people?) have a disconnect between always believing what is told to them and actually having to find out themselves. Most of the time, I let my two boys find out the hard way, but if its gonna hurt them more than my little hand smack or a smack to the tush, then I guess Im barbaric in exerting that type of discipline.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by ownbestenemy]

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
I wonder if they measured the IQs of the parents. It occurs to me that parents with lower than average IQs are more likely to use corporal punishment as opposed to more "cerebral" methods of disciplining children, and those same parents are also more likely to produce offspring with lower IQs. Hence the relationship between spanking and lower IQ's is not causative, rather it is circumstantial.

[edit on 2009-9-25 by wecomeinpeace]

i think that's sumsit up on 'study' ,

reply to post by amazed


And stress also causes longer life as it forces the body to adapt quickly. Which is proven.