Spanking may lower kids' IQs

reply to post by ownbestenemy


My stance is that spanking a child does not lower their IQ; it almost most certainly, if IQ even matters, increases it.

And my stance is that I am in the real world everyday and I do not believe a word coming from most people in this thread. I know how people are. I want people to be honest with themselves about this. Lack of discipline and respect are the TWO FUNDAMENTAL REASONS for the world being the way it is.

All of you want change and want good to come about and want this and that better. EVERY single one of you is here at ATS. Unless ATS is just the "cool new hangout spot" which is bothersome to me as there is so much information here which needs to be heeded. Maybe 80% of it is total complete GARBAGE, but who cares? The imagination is a wonderful thing.

As for how anyone here spends so much time with their kids, that is really great and I'm glad for you. I can only hope I am one day able to spend so much time with my kids. But, especially if you look at everything that is going on and pay attention to the times, if you are not raising and INDIVIDUAL CAPABLE OF ORIGINAL THOUGHT, then you are not raising someone who is strong. When someone's goodness is solely dependent on your ability to be present, then their goodness lasts no time at all.

Why do you think RELIGION is such a big DEAL!?

I don't think people in general are bad. I think people in general are screwed up because people are selfish. I think people would willingly do good for another person as long as it doesn't put them too far out of their own way. I know this to be fact. I see screw ups helping people all day. Yes, I say screw ups because it's a FARCE! You aren't supposed to help people because it makes you feel like you accomplished something -- the REWARD system is a failure, read HISTORY and see for yourself -- You are supposed to be good because it is right and because you want good to prevail and you want the world to be good and therefore you are that change in the world that you want to see. That is why YOU DO GOOD.

Don't tell me, "I did this today for that person! I'm so good!" Because, guess what, no you're not. Good is good in itself. Your boasting just proves your intentions behind your good-doing, you no-good good-doer. Doing good shouldn't even be a second thought in your mind. It should be automatic and with complete unawareness to your goodness. It should be shocking to you if someone says, "Wow, you are so good!" -- Your response should be, "What? Why? Uh, isn't that normal?"

Love and butterflies and balloons and yippee... Whatever. Dreamland y'all. Dreamland.

What I find the most ironic is that a lot of the people who claim that corporeal punishment is wrong are the same people who don't believe in God and believe that we are evolved animals. Some might even be witty enough to sense our possible genetic mutation. Regardless, doesn't it seem odd that people who don't believe in God believe that the hateful society around them will somehow not eat them alive and eat their bones if they have to during any kind of disaster? Oh, how shocked are these "loved individuals" going to be when they realize that not everyone has a "nice mommy and daddy".

You know, this may all seem like a big bang, but it all stems from the same root. It all comes from a lack of discipline and respect. Elderly respect turns into self respect eventually. Discipline doesn't just mean punishment either. Discipline means a TRAIN OF THOUGHT. A good, strong, benevolent discipline is required to create a good, solid human being.

I am SO sorry to offend those who are no doubt offended, but it is not my intention. My intention is to simply Verbally Slap the crap outta people who need to wake up. Not out of hate, not out of revenge, not out of bully-ism - but because I actually am ONE OF THE FEW people who DOES actually care about this world. I am one of the few who does feel what people feel, and care about what happens to perfect strangers (And no, that doesn't mean I flaunt it as you will no doubt say I am doing now, but it means that you quietly go about finding a solution and attempt to put it into action OR you open your fat mouth and find the person who can!) I do NOT tolerate lies, regardless of whether you think you are lying or not, I will not forgive it immediately, nor will I demand any less of anyone than to be honest. If I DID NOT GIVE A DANG and if I thought the world was beyond saving and if I thought that I just wanted to hurt my own kids all day, do you REALLY think I'd be on here responding to as many threads as possible of all kinds of topics, of learning all kinds of things, Of constantly butting in and INDISCRIMINATELY and completely aside of any politic or "bed-side manner", if you will, offer up the Truth or the best opinion I have to offer?

This could go on forever.

If your kids attack my kids, my kids are students of tae kwon do. That's Korean for, "The way of the hand and foot." It won't be pretty and I will get my way. They are told not to use it on ANYONE and if they must only to defend in case of life or death, but, of course, how kids make mistakes! IT's an easy mistake to make when you have a bunch of uncontrollable kids running amuck like a bunch of zombies on crack causing whatever havoc they can and putting hands on eachother even though their parents NEVER HIT THEM OH MY GOD.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

There are some people in this thread who are not fools.

It's not opinion, it is fact. Of course, there is nothing on this planet that can "withstand scrutiny" because opinion is much more highly regarded than fact, and not everyone always agrees on the truth because humans are faulty in the sense that the first reaction is to NOT agree with truth because the truth scares humans, which is why WE SLAP OUR KIDS so that they realize there are consequences to avoiding the truth (and also to add a little kick-start to their brains).

Regardless, I don't need to write a book. In fact, the simple fact that books need to be written on HOW TO HAVE A BABY?!?!? HOW TO TAKE CARE OF A BABY!?!?!? HOW TO RAISE A CHILD?!?!?!? is Stupid.

Animals can't read and they do it every day. We must be INCREDIBLY stupid.

What is fact? That spanking is the only way to raise a child? No, that is not fact. I spanked my youngest because that is what brought about compliance. He didn't get it often, and it was more ceremonial than anything, but it worked where other methods didn't. The oldest, he has never been spanked. Ever. A spanking would completely be the wrong approach.

Each child is different. These broad brushes that people try to paint their pictures with leavees out far too much detail. A generic answer will not work. Every person is unique, and will require different measures to teach civility and duty with.

If you want fact, that is fact. Parse it however you would like, but this is "truth". Now stop being so sure you have any answers. It is obnoxious and you aren't even on topic. The OP discusses how spanking makes kids dumber, and you have warped it into "is spanking right or wrong". Were you spanked? LOL

[edit on 25-9-2009 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
What is fact? That spanking is the only way to raise a child? No, that is not fact.

I don't think anyone hear is saying spanking is the only way, but are rather annoyed that some believe spanking is evil and violent. If your child doesn't require a spanking to get the message thats great, but there are some kids that do and for some people to imply the parents are practicing bad parenting/discipline by doing it is insulting to say the least.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
My intention is to simply Verbally Slap the crap outta people
It won't be pretty and I will get my way.

...in addition to the above, you've also advocated smacking your kids and kicking their ass... your posts show that you are angry, narcissistic, violent, lack empathy, paranoid, have delusions of grandeur and low self-esteem... do something good for yourself and your family and get into therapy asap...

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Yes, I was spanked, and I am better for it.

I was never a truly selfish person. I picked on my brothers and we'd end up fighting, or we were play-fighting and it got out of control, or I'd talk back to my mom or dad and I learned quickly, especially the latter, never to do. "I say MOVE, you what?" "MOVE!"

So, let's see whose the smarter.

Little billy is walking with mommy and daddy down the street and is minding his own business. Little billy decides he wants to read a sign on the sidewalk. He just moves a tad closer to it to inspect it. There is nothing wrong with this, as Little billy is indepenent enough to take interest in things. Little billy's parents really do love him, and want him to succeed. Then Little billy's mom sees a car fly up on the sidewalk and screams, "MOVE!" Since Little billy's mom had never really trained Little billy to be alert, he doesn't really know how to respond. Luckily the car misses him and hits the light pole on the corner. But, now, Little billy is confused and shaken and so are the parents. Some things you can't prepare for... Or can you?

Little john is walking with mom and dad down the street and is minding his own business. Little john decides he wants to read a sign on the sidewalk. He moves right up to the sign and inspects it carefully. There is nothing wrong with this as Little john is independent enough to take interest in things. Little john's parents really do love him, and want him to succeed. Then little john's mom sees are car fly up on the sidewalk and says, "Move." little john immediately backs up, hardly realizing his own reflex, and the car misses him by a car's full width and runs into the light pole on the corner. Now, little john is a little shaken as are his parents, but they're relatively calm and more worried for the safety of the driver.
Dad sends mom inside the corner store with little john and runs to the car to check on the driver.

Some things you can't predict, but you can prepare.

Would slapping little john be required for this kind of discipline? Let me say it this way. I've not met a 3 year old in my entire life that didn't act like a little SNOT. When I say Move, boy/girl, You had better MOVE.

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


You should really check up on how much therapy from "professionals" really screws people up.

And yes, I fully advocate kicking your kid's ass if they're picking on other kids!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes, I fully advocate putting people in their place when they are wrong!! If I am wrong, by all means! But, you haven't yet put me in my place.

No, I am not narcissitic by my very own nature, but it sure would seem that way seeing as how I do believe my family to be one of the most honest and intelligent that I've witnessed out of most peoples'.

I'm certainly not crazy, as I have the ability to sustain logic. This is sanity.

My gift, or 'flair', seems to be the simplification of complex things. This one's easy. Saw the news story on the way out the door to work, had all day to think about it.

1. There's a difference between beating and spanking. Spanking doesn't work on all kids, but it works on most. There is a science to it. I think that those kids that are spanked without some rigid rules and logic involved in the process will probably be a great deal dumber. I am an example of that. My dad had a set system for what gets a spanking. I was only ever spanked in matters of discipline. Never for a thing that could be fixed by me.
2. Your kid can NOT be afraid of you. I was in the Marines before I understood THAT distinction. Spanking your kids doesn't make them fear YOU if you give them the logical reason you're doing it. If you spank often and for no apparent reason, they'll be afraid of you. The point is to make them afraid of their OWN actions. If you can't understand that concept, you have no business spanking your kids. Those who live in FEAR instead of respect tend to excel in non-academic settings. Those that involve survival. They tend to be more manipulative even if they are unaware of it. In scholastic settings, the work they are doing doesn't carry the urgency or importance it should. Those who are spanked PROPERLY or not at all have a completely different idea of what's important. School work would rank high on that list.

Now that people are misinformed on this study, perhaps a study on the social behavior of non-spanked kids. Lets see how many of these have problems with authority, taking orders, and accepting the consequences of their decisions. Raising a child, I say as a father, is possible without spanking. I know from my own experience. My little ones don't have to be spanked. But when they stay with my mom, I know she'll spank them if she thinks it necessary. And I can see the respect and love they have for her.

It has it's place. It isn't the spanking that makes these kids dumber. It's the parenting.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Amen, once again. Good job with your patience, I'm not having it as much!

No matter how long I live I doubt I'll ever get completely used to mindlessness. I hope I do though, I don't wanna be a saggy old man AND perpetually pissed! I wanna be the old man that makes jokes all day and still high-fives his wife and tells really long-winded stories with enough energy to light up NYC for a month!

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
What is fact? That spanking is the only way to raise a child? No, that is not fact.

I don't think anyone hear is saying spanking is the only way, but are rather annoyed that some believe spanking is evil and violent. If your child doesn't require a spanking to get the message thats great, but there are some kids that do and for some people to imply the parents are practicing bad parenting/discipline by doing it is insulting to say the least.

...i read more than a few posts by those who advocate spanking and blame all the troubles in the world on parents who are not violent with their children... go spank yourself for whining...

reply to post by Arrowmancer



What is all this civility about? You're making me look bad.

Whole-heartedly agree.

Maybe I am getting too heated in all this.

I guess it isn't necessarily a good idea to get bad butter and complain about the milker's methods. No one sees the connection.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
I wonder if they measured the IQs of the parents. It occurs to me that parents with lower than average IQs are more likely to use corporal punishment as opposed to more "cerebral" methods of disciplining children, and those same parents are also more likely to produce offspring with lower IQs. Hence the relationship between spanking and lower IQ's is not causative, rather it is circumstantial.

My old man spanked my sister and she's a PhD, in turn she didn't spank her son (my nephew) and he's a complete dumbass. So there. Disclaimer to that is his father was a dumbass too, so I guess the dumbass gene is dominant. Okay, now I'm rambling...

Or... it could be that your old man is a 'dumbass' (according to your theory - since he uses corporal punishment) and the 'dumbass' gene skips a generation. Lucky for you and your sister but not for your nephews and your children.

Or... it could be that your sister is actually Einstein and now she's just a PhD thanks to your dad, and your sister is right not to spank your nephew, otherwise your nephew will become even dumber than already is.

Originally posted by Veritas Lux Mea
But I have to say my father was very intelligent and educated -- yet he still spanked my brother nearly EVERY day.

He was old-school and believed that boys should be toughened up when they acted up.. (something HIS father did to him).

- Mea

Just because people are intelligent in some ways it doesn't mean they're born with strong characters. Some people are good at one thing but doesn't mean they'll be good at another thing.

Seems to me your father doesn't have a strong character (not enough at least) hence his father managed to imprint his behaviour/belief in him. To compensate for the weakness, they usually toughen up their external shells, and give the impression of toughness, but externally only. It doesn't make them a wiser soul.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by mrmonsoon

 

I would disagree. I have never needed to hit any of my children, and trust me there are times where they would have deserved it.

However, consequences for their actions never need to be physical. There are moral and social consequences that can be used to better educate your children when they do something that you as a parent think is not appropriate.

Unfortunetly in today's climate parents are far too busy with their own lives and illusions to actually sit down and think out they're parenting strategy.

Preperation is key.

~Keeper

I agree with this opinion, star for you.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

Oh my GOD what a joke!!

Trust me, spanking INCREASES your IQ.

If spanking decreases IQ, then I must have been the smartest damn person on the planet!!

Wait... am I missing something here, and you get a lot of stars for this?

Let me process this again slowly, trust me, spanking increases your IQ, if spanking decreases IQ, then I must have been the smartest damn person on the planet.

Nah, I still don't get it, forget it.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
To compensate for the weakness, they usually toughen up their external shells, and give the impression of toughness, but externally only. It doesn't make them a wiser soul.

I really agree with you here. You're right -- regardless of who anyone is, spanking/beating a child does NOT show good morals or character at all. In fact, it shows a very emotionally-stunted individual.. (and he knows this about himself now).

Also like I said before, it tends to contiue down the line - from generation to generation - until someone is aware and strong enough to put a stop to it..

I just so happen to become aware of this pattern, and downright REFUSE to hit my son! Perhaps one day may come that I absolutely have to in order to save his life, but I will exhaust every other available option before I even consider it.

Violence ONLY begets more violence..

- Mea

[edit on 26-9-2009 by Veritas Lux Mea]

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Agree with you Hunka Hunka and star for you. But looking in the mirror is not an easy thing to do for anyone.

Originally posted by amazed
For those of you who say "I was spanked as a child, and I turned out all right." -

Usually they turned out not that all right, but they always say they are.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
I agree, if the punishment fit the crime we would have alot less violent world. Soft liberal laws have however made a mockery of true justice. Eye for a eye, death for death imo.

That is Iranian sharia law, btw.

Originally posted by Veritas Lux Mea
.........

Violence ONLY begets more violence..

When used in moderation spanking makes a child fearful of stepping out of line. Obviously some children don't need this and will listen to you when you speak to them, some others on the other hand need that little bit more or they will just run over you and show you can't control your kids.

If you hit your kid for no reason or because they annoy when you come home tired from work or whatever then that is obviously going to cause more problems then needed. On the other hand, a smack on the butt when your child misbehaves will show them they did the wrong thing and that there is consequence to their actions.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
I agree, if the punishment fit the crime we would have alot less violent world. Soft liberal laws have however made a mockery of true justice. Eye for a eye, death for death imo.

That is Iranian sharia law, btw.

And? Meaning? It must somehow be wrong because its part of Iranian law? Punishments should fit the crime.

This article and the research itself is a load of excrement. Spare the rod and spoil the child. Our country to going to hades, with morally ignorant children who've never received any discipline. They grow up to be people like Obama or Barney Frank.

Do you suppose it just might be the case that the smarter kids received fewer spankings because they weren't getting in trouble as often? Gee is there a correlation between IQ and anti-social behavior?

Statistics lie and liars use statistics.

Originally posted by Kaytagg
Okay, this explains a lot. It explains a whole lot.

Like why Republican Conservatives are the way they are

.

IT DOES! jk, jk.

Don't generalize too far though, there are some descent and discipline republicans, and I respect them quite so.

Okay, now to my own opinion.

First. Does spanking lower your child's IQ? It depends on the child, the frequency and other circumstances, but in general, the effect is minuscule I suspect.

Second, do I believe in spanking?
Do I believe in war? No, to both.
The idea is not against war or spanking, but not to immediately resort to it. The same thing goes to torture too. But if you torture.. if you use that method, don't be surprised if the information is utterly false, under torture most people will say whatever you want them to say.

I find too many times too many people resort to what I consider as abusive force, too quickly.. and I'm bewildered by it. I thought... why are these puny people actually more violent than me, they must have some sort of big secret weapons stash in their garages or something, they're so bold and have such big mouths.

I'm just messing with you a little, btw. Thirdly, now this will be fun.

Just because you're an adult or a parent, it doesn't mean you couldn't use some disciplining yourself. And for those of you who believe in strict disciplinary action, if the government want to discipline you, would you let them? Or will you whine like a child?

You see, I believe people who need to be disciplined are actually people who resort to force too quickly, whether they work in the government or not.

Originally posted by Veritas Lux Mea
In fact, it shows a very emotionally-stunted individual.. (and he knows this about himself now).

You mean your dad?

Also like I said before, it tends to contiue down the line - from generation to generation - until someone is aware and strong enough to put a stop to it..

I just so happen to become aware of this pattern, and downright REFUSE to hit my son! Perhaps one day may come that I absolutely have to in order to save his life, but I will exhaust every other available option before I even consider it.

I call it a generational curse (not in a biblical sense, at least not necessarily so), when the abused child grow up to be an abuser. But it doesn't have to be an extreme case like an abuse. When the parents set an example to resort to force too quickly, the child could follow their behaviours. That is not good at all, definitely not good for the world. It's true, the pattern should be broken, and yes it'll take a stronger character to do it, coz you're swimming against the stream, the bad kind of stream.