Harder To Believe In - God or Aliens?

That where theology comes in. Some call it the "uncaused cause" which exists beyond the realm of time and space of this universe. Most western beliefs is that God always was and always will be. But it is true, matter cannot create matter. Take a look at the link TheBandit provided a few posts up on this page. Pretty interesting.

just read my other post and it didnt make sense

what i meant was , if this unknown substance already existed in some form to make a god like being "just pop into existing" then this substance also could have become unstable and caused matter to exist - hence the big bang theory

im not out to disprove god here , i sit on the fence about it tho it makes no sense to me , i just dont like religion and what it does when added to people and slowly stired

I think trying to figure what the what was before the big bang isn't possible in this life. After researching the whole theory, many scientists have come to believe in God.

Originally posted by CommonSense
Whether you call Him God or whatever, there must be something. If it's aliens, fine, where did they come from. If it's reptiles, welllllll oKay! where did they come from?

I don't know.

If it is God (in the Judeo-Christian sense of the concept) that created us, where did God come from? If your answer is something like "God just always was there," then you can hardly criticize others for using the same answer for reptilian alien types.

People should really just be okay with saying "I don't know." There's no shame in admitting you have no idea about something as abstract as creation theory. It's far better to be upfront about not knowing than just making up silly explanations that sound cool.

I agree that looking around at the world gives one ideas of intelligent design. However, I have seen zero evidence that is was this thing called God that did the designing, nor have I seen proof of flying space lizards that built pyramids and control our banks. I just don't know. There are no real answers in my opinion, at least not yet.

Originally posted by 23rd_Degree
People should really just be okay with saying "I don't know." There's no shame in admitting you have no idea about something as abstract as creation theory. It's far better to be upfront about not knowing than just making up silly explanations that sound cool.

I would hardly call it a silly explanation. Perhaps you haven't read the entire thread. The crreation theory is the accepted teaching of the Church. Take a look at this link, www.newadvent.org... and click on "Infinity of God". It'll summarize the philosophical and theological premise of the God's eternal existence. That is God always was and always will be.

is that written in the bible (not that the bible is fact) or is that some writers interpratation of what "god" should be ?

few things..

* the bible was written along time ago by humans who claim it to be "inspired" by god, words from that time and language from that time are lost and unless you know the local dialect from there then you would get somethings wrong - ie, if i was to write an article on the net and call someone a dog - a common thing in this day and age , someone without the language skills of this time when trying to translate it would take it totally the wrong way

* the age that the bible was written was supersticious , they had only a small understanding of the world and how things fit together- which is proven by the bible. the bible doesnt describe a thing outside the mentality of the people of that time period - if this where the true word of god , why couldnt he tell them a more complex way the universe works ? why is it "fires from the skies" , "burning bush" etc etc when god could have told them it was chunks of rock/metal from space which was heated up because it entered the air at great speed which caused friction?

* god being all seeing and all knowing could have easily created paragraphs in the bible in binary - he would have known that in the future we humans would have our lives built around technology and binary would be the best way to convey complex messages across - even if the people of the time couldnt understand it

* we have all seen the "bible mistake" sites , say no more

* the true word of god - (as god is pure and perfect) would be clear to everyone , the true meaning of anything he said would stand out and would make perfect sense. the bible is a book of riddles . parables and no 2 people come to the same conclusion on what the meanings are.
this to me is the total bringing down of the bible in the christian view of what god is.

Originally posted by acidhead
* we have all seen the "bible mistake" sites , say no more

I have seen a lot of those sites indeed, and as I checked the arguments one by one, I found out that all of these sites are based on false assumptions , misunderstandings and basicly misuse of bible-verses.
These sites want you to not find out things for yourself, they want you to be passive and trust on their judgement. I suggest, if you really want to know the truth, you stop believing whatever they say on an anti-christianity site, because those sites are (in the best case) one big pile of ignorance.

* the true word of god - (as god is pure and perfect) would be clear to everyone , the true meaning of anything he said would stand out and would make perfect sense. the bible is a book of riddles . parables and no 2 people come to the same conclusion on what the meanings are.
this to me is the total bringing down of the bible in the christian view of what god is.

Why would the true word of God be clear to anyone?
As hard as it is, Christianity is not as easy as 1+1=2.
Everyone is able to understand the bible, as long as they read it in context and ask the right people to explain. (not ripping out verses to abuse them for their own opinions)

god writes a book for humans - as god is pure and perfect then this book would be pure and pefect and every person who reads the bible will instantly know what its about and will not have to dwell on what things mean and the true meaning.

as we speak on this forum , christians are arguing if god hates gays etc , if god had anything to do with the bible - there wouldnt be an argument on what a verse meant - it would be pure - perfect and understandable to ALL humans as intended

or are you suggesting god didnt create the bible for humans?

AH
Everyone is entitled to believe or not. This discussion is knd of getting off track from the original post and I don't want to see the thread get moved. When it gets into a discussion relative to the link I gave you, these ideas have had the world's best philosophers working on them for 2000 years.

If you want a "real" explanation about the Annunaki, God, religion, ancient civilizations explained in a coherent, intelligent way you HAVE to go to :

www.cyberspaceorbit.com...

Originally posted by acidhead
or are you suggesting god didnt create the bible for humans?

As you might know, all humans are unique and different.
It is simply not possible to create a book that's both equally clear to everyone, and communicating some very complex concepts.
As I said, the main message in the bible is not hard to understand at all, but it will never be as easy as reading a Donald Duck.
God wants you to think about stuff yourself, He wants you to have questions because He wants to answer your questions as well.
Most questions regarding Christianity can be answered within a split second, if you just look the example God gave us through Jesus and his message.

i understand how u can think this is going off topic , my intention isnt to have the thread removed but i think this does have relevence the thread is about what you believe more of - god or aliens.

as far as i know the only references you have of god is the bible , the rest is myth and folklaw of random fanatics talking about how god entered their lives while they where sick etc. which is similar to ufo folklaw

so to show a higher probability of the existance of aliens being a creator over a god being then you have to argue against the main reference of gods existance = the bible

sorry if u felt it went off topic , twasnt intentional

God wants you to think about stuff yourself, He wants you to have questions because He wants to answer your questions as well.

@jakko - you dont actually know that to be true , your assuming like what alot of religious people do. im not saying your wrong but you cant say your correct either.

sorry now -back on topic

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[Edited on 25-5-2004 by acidhead]

[Edited on 25-5-2004 by acidhead]

So back to the topic at hand - because I already believe in God it is simple for me to believe there may be aliens. Surely a God great enough to create all the life on this one little planet may have created life on other planets as well. However, at this point I choose to believe there is a God but have not made up my mind about aliens and don't think it matters much right now. I cannot believe in aliens INSTEAD of God as is not scientifically logical that the origin of life (any life - human, animal, alien) began by some cosmic accident and that matter formed out of nothing - it is an impossibility.

its not an impossibility , its just impossible for your mind at this moment in time to comprehend.

1000 years ago it was impossible for us to comprehend going to the moon - it wasnt impossible to go to the moon

I am not saying that the "big bang" or "evolution" are impossiblities. I am saying that by all the laws of science and physics it is impossible for matter to form from nothing. However I do see what you are saying - we still have much to learn about science and physics and maybe what we deem impossible today may be a common known and proven fact tomorrow. We will all know the answer to this some day.

Originally posted by acidhead
@jakko - you dont actually know that to be true , your assuming like what alot of religious people do. im not saying your wrong but you cant say your correct either.

I know for a fact that God created humans with brains so they could think for themselves. God tells us to seek truth and gain wisdom quite a lot of times in the bible, so I wouldn't call my opinion "just an interpretation", it does not take a lot of interpreting to get this message,

Jakko, you do not know for a fact that God did anything. You believe it. How many times must this distinction be clarified? And I find it very interesting that it doesn't take much interpretation for you to find your answers in the bible - although, if anyone interprets the bible differently, they've either got it wrong, are misquoting, decontextualising quotes, or are displaying woeful ignorance. Not only that, but you have decreed that the Catholic Church aren't "real" Christians according to the Gospel of Jakko!

Gosh, jakko, you must be so much smarter than everyone else. That being the case, perhaps you can explain this to me?

Originally posted by jakko
Why would the true word of God be clear to anyone?
As hard as it is, Christianity is not as easy as 1+1=2.

Originally posted by jakko
Most questions regarding Christianity can be answered within a split second

Which is it? Or am I cruelly taking your quotes out of context again? "Taking out of context" being, in this case, a synonym for "pointing out the inherent contradictions in a clear and unarguable way"... ... Or is it, as I suspect, a case that the truth of the bible is clear for those who already believe, and utterly opaque to anyone else? Wow, there's nothing like picking your sources, is there?

Badkitty makes an interesting point - why do so many Christians believe that, while God created mankind, any other intelligent life out there in the universe must be demonic or satanic in nature?

To restate my position on CS' original question: all the evidence we can find tells us that life is tenacious and resilient. To arbitrarily rule that the same chemical development that created the simplest forms of life only happened on this planet is mind-numbingly arrogant and facile. On the other hand, not a single shred of evidence - and I said evidence - has been uncovered to show the existence of God. The faith is God denies evidence and the rigours of the scientific method absolutely. That does not mean that faith is illegitimate, but it does mean that, if your'e looking for evidence, reasoning and logic, then aliens and God .

It's sad to read posts in which "Christians" state their belief that aliens and the UFO phenomenon must be some type of "demonic plot". It harkens back to a simpler and more brutal time when all they needed to say was "It's of the devil!" and somebody lost their life and posessions in the process.

Originally posted by StrangeLands
Gosh, jakko, you must be so much smarter than everyone else. That being the case, perhaps you can explain this to me?

I apreciate your compliments, but I allready pointed out several times that I do not know everything, but sure I'll try to explain...

Which is it? Or am I cruelly taking your quotes out of context again?

Yep, it seems to be what you are best at.
Just read the two completely different posts you ripped these quotes out ok? I'm not going to explain this to you again, because I think you allready understand what's the difference between these quotes. Which makes it even more pathetic you use such tactics in a discussion like this, playing dumb.
Ah well, play as dumb as you want, I'm not going to endlessly repeat and explain myself when you allready understood what I'm trying to say.

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by Jakko]

Originally posted by Preest
It's sad to read posts in which "Christians" state their belief that aliens and the UFO phenomenon must be some type of "demonic plot". It harkens back to a simpler and more brutal time when all they needed to say was "It's of the devil!" and somebody lost their life and posessions in the process.

I agree, noone should jump to any conclusion that fast.
I am Christian and at this point it's like this for me:
Some people see Elvis, some see ghosts, and others see aliens.
Who am I to say they are wrong or mistaking?
I'm not supposed to have my opinion ready for everything and anything, without even knowing what I am talking about. If there's not enough info to base an opinion on, then forcing yourself to have an opinion will only make you look stupid.
Maybe aliens are demons, and maybe not.
Maybe aliens are hallucinations, and maybe not.
Maybe aliens are the CIA, and maybe not.
Brainstorming never hurt anyone.