Harder To Believe In - God or Aliens?

QUOTE:
little Tiamat Witnesses coming door-to-door

you mean...that's the one with the smell of rotten eggs and sulphur ?

i'll keep my smith&wesson ready with some silver bullets loaded

It is a more reasonable belief of faith that intelligence is eternal and created matter, than is the faith of atheists & evolutionists that matter is eternal and it created intelligence.

I believe in God, and not in aliens.
I think people rather believe in original and new ideas instead of following ideas that a lot of others also follow. (for a reason?)
It seems as if a lot of people tend to choose originality over truth.

Hecate,
I think they probably have the same one we do. BTW, love your signature line!!
CS

i don't believe in god, but i do believe in aliens. Not believing in aliens would actually be stupid but i don't think i have to explain that. But the whole story with god......it's just a blown up fairytale to me.

Hey, thanks for your candid response! One question, where did the aliens come from, ya know, who made them.
CS

Originally posted by infinite
Neither, i have faith and i believe in God, im a catholic. And of course their is other life, its logical.

agreed, but im not catholic and never will be for that fact. on offence. (i got a problem with the catholic leadership.) anyways, there has to be something out there but ill believe it when i see it.

Originally posted by Jakko
It is a more reasonable belief of faith that intelligence is eternal and created matter, than is the faith of atheists & evolutionists that matter is eternal and it created intelligence.

Very well said Jakko. I agree - it is faith either way. I would only reprhase part of your very logical statement - some of us (myself included) do believe that "intelligence created matter" while athiests and evolutionists seem to believe that matter "spawned" intelligence through an impossible serious of mutations. Not very logical.

Originally posted by Jakko

It seems as if a lot of people tend to choose originality over truth.

Jakko,
What a great, concise line! I wish I came up with it!!
CS

Note to self: Copy & Paste, Great Stuff!

Originally posted by CommonSense
Hey, thanks for your candid response! One question, where did the aliens come from, ya know, who made them.
CS

I'd have to say " Creation " and like us, they also will have to make or have made choices, who will they follow and abandon! For me the Bible has jewels like the statement you can't serve 2 Gods. So I see alot of these quotes that make a point, as guides to building a better inner self, one that gets stronger and is able to choose a path in life that reflects the inner heart.

Aliens don't know as the Greys seem to be cold, rather unfeeling in the way people talk about the way they are treated. Pleased they are going to save mankind, unless we do it I can't see us learning anything from the experience? When I first tried to ride my bike I fell down but got back up, I believe we are doing the same thing with understanding what LIFE itself is, and when we do we will be strong enough to go into the universe and seek other life knowing what life is.

Michael

ps - ngtu, sorry but your reply stated that you looked in religion for proof, as I stated I didn't find it there! But that might have been his plan to get me to look for him, yours may be different. Try going to the source.....and bypass people all together.

pss - ngtu , all your posts have a negative view, just not here but on the board? I tell people if you groan all day people will avoid you, maybe a priest molested you I don't know. But people who look for God are people who want a better life, for themselves and those around them. Your pushing people away with all that negative emotions,

[Edited on 23-5-2004 by Ark-Angel]

Originally posted by Ark-Angel
maybe a priest molested you...

HEY NOW!

Originally posted by Preest

Originally posted by Ark-Angel
maybe a priest molested you...

HEY NOW!

I see your point,
Christ example to a crowd who had brought a women caught in the act of fornication to him, he chose not to judge the women but rather the sin itself. It's not the Priest but rather the sin of molesting those given to him to watch over and how he was used to inflict injury into the lives of those he was to protect.

Perhaps it wasn't a Priest and I've made an asumtion having listen to the payouts from the Catholic church, poor choice on my part!

Michael

I dont believe in god but i dont believe reptiles placed us here, i believe we evolved from less advanced life forms. I do believe in aliens however.

I think aliens are more likely to exsist because of the billions and billions of stars in our galaxy alone, the idea that earth is the only one with life sounds a bit far fetched. The same goes with god, to me god was thought up to explain why things happen, and to control the masses. The idea of god(s) is a primitive notion used to explain the universe and the why certain things happen. The concept of aliens spawns from the fact that thinking we are the only intelligent life anywhere is ridiculous. Thats my two cents

Originally posted by CommonSense
Why? If God is an alien, then who created him?
If there is no God, why do some choose to beleive that the human race was placed on earth by a bunch of reptiles from another galaxy?
Who created the reptiles and their galaxy?

You assume that everything must be created by an outside source... in nature we see things develop naturally without any intelligient force shaping it... elements come together and things grow.

I don't know why some people believe that maybe because man seemed to jump suddenly in its knowlege level and ability for rational though.
again.. you are assuming that everything must be created by some guiding hand.. why? maybe because its all you know so it is all you can understand.

My question to you is why do some people feel the need to believe everything was created by an all powerful being?

Your answer.. because it makes them feel better about things they dont understand and gives them comfort enough to face the fear of death with the illusion that there is some place with gold streets and palaces that "god" has made for them..

If god is so against material possesions and the desire to accumulate wealth than why did he make heaven a place of material pleasure?

Originally posted by NephraTari
If god is so against material possesions and the desire to accumulate wealth than why did he make heaven a place of material pleasure?

Since when is God against material possesions and the desire to accumulate wealth?
God is against greed, against obsession with yourself, against jealousy and against trying to make everyone jealous.
It's so stunningly sad to see people misunderstand everything that God is trying to communicate to us.

As for controlling the masses and having an answer for everything, ask yourself these simple questions;
1. Did Christianity ever help anyone to control the masses in history?
No, in fact the opposite happened and that's why Christians have been captured, tortured and killed in many countries and by many authorities. (some of this is still going on today)

2. Does Christianity help you answer *all* your questions?
No, in fact it raises more questions than it answers. If you want to be "safe" from the most complicated questions in life, then stay atheist and embrace ignorance, you'll never have to face the biggest questions in life.

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Jakko]

Originally posted by Jakko
It is a more reasonable belief of faith that intelligence is eternal and created matter, than is the faith of atheists & evolutionists that matter is eternal and it created intelligence.

I believe in God, and not in aliens.
I think people rather believe in original and new ideas instead of following ideas that a lot of others also follow. (for a reason?)
It seems as if a lot of people tend to choose originality over truth.

It doesn't matter if a lot of other people follow relegion that it is the truth...
you see that is thinking wrong a lot of people followed mister hitler in before and in WO2 for what he said but was it the truth don't think so..
Is it originality no isn't either cause the man only said what alot of people thought was true.

my point is following 'god' blindly is wrong because you don't know what the priest says is true...
mainly the priest make things up to turn things so it turn out positive for them.

read the bible with the knowlegde that there are aliens and they visited us in the time when the stories in the bible where happening...
you will see that much if not all of the stories aliens are involved.. that is why I stepped of religion because they want us to believe that they are god. And everything which happen then was godlike events but where no more than a technology.

You know, for a moment there, I thought we'd reached a mature and intelligent compromise. I turn my back, and we're name-calling again.

Originally posted by Jakko
It's so stunningly sad to see people misunderstand everything that God is trying to communicate to us.

Jakko, are you saying that you understand what God - "eternal, ineffable, omniscient" - is trying to say? Isn't that a little arrogant? Is God'd word only understandable by Christians?

You know, there's a reason for the phrase "The Lord Is My Shepherd..."

"...For I Am Part Of The Herd."

Originally posted by Jakko
Did Christianity ever help anyone to control the masses in history?

Well, yes, it did, throughout much of the second millenium. It also inflicted it's own vainglorious world view on others. Here are some links to get you started: here, here, and here.

Originally posted by Jakko
In fact it raises more questions than it answers.

Oh does it? Does it really? Is there a single question in Christian doctrine that can't be answered with "because God said so"?

Why was the universe created? "Because God said so."

Why does evil exist? "Because God said so."

Why are scientists and those icky rationalists all going to hell because they haven't surrendered their individuality and become One Of Us? "Because God said so."

I don't challenge your right to your faith, jakko, but please - if you try and justify it, and particularly if you try and make it look like the difficult option, you're just going to embarrass yourself.

And finally:

Originally posted by MarkLuitzen
you see that is thinking wrong a lot of people followed mister hitler in before and in WO2 for what he said but was it the truth don't think so..

Godwin's Law!

Originally posted by StrangeLandsJakko, are you saying that you understand what God - "eternal, ineffable, omniscient" - is trying to say? Isn't that a little arrogant? Is God'd word only understandable by Christians?

It's understandable for anyone who is willing to open the bible and read what's there before opening their mouth to ramble about it.

Well, yes, it did, throughout much of the second millenium. It also inflicted it's own vainglorious world view on others.

Not "it", "they".
Morons doing stupid things in the name of God is not to be mistaken with the religion of "Christianity".

Oh does it? Does it really? Is there a single question in Christian doctrine that can't be answered with "because God said so"?

I really wonder, where do you atheists get the idea that ANY question is supposed to be answered with "because God said so"?
You are the classic example of someone who is completely unaware of the christian religion, basing arguements on idiots calling themselves christians.

Why was the universe created? "Because God said so."

If you insist on giving me examples of your flawed simplistic view (that I would also understand without the examples), at least make sure your examples make sense.
The question of why, implies that you want to know the motives that God had to create the universe. "Because God said so" Does not make sense. We allready know God said so, the question was about why God said so. This is one of the unanswered questions of Christianity, that Atheists will never have to face.
Why did God even start this universe? Why did He even bother making angels and life and time?

Why does evil exist? "Because God said so."

Man, where do you get your info?
I'm not going to write an essay for you just because you are unable to open up a bible and read it.
Tip: It has something to do with freedom of choice and what effects this had on the most powerfull angel created by God.

Why are scientists and those icky rationalists all going to hell because they haven't surrendered their individuality and become One Of Us? "Because God said so."

More retardness...
1. A scientist is not the same as an Atheist.
2. A rationalist is not the same as an Atheist.
3. Christians do not surrender their individuality. (Oh comon, do I have to stop killing people now? But killing people is what made me unique!)
Fact is that you don't know who is going to hell, neither do I.
I do know that the love of God is bigger and deeper then any of us can imagine, and I think I will meet a lot more people up in heaven then I expected there)

I don't challenge your right to your faith, jakko, but please - if you try and justify it, and particularly if you try and make it look like the difficult option, you're just going to embarrass yourself.

I don't challenge your intelligence, but please - if you try to make a point against Christianity, particularly if you have never actually opened a bible, you're just going to embarrass yourself.

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Jakko]

why can't most of you handle NEUTRAL observation of a hype ?

how brainwashed must one be to even think that the universe just only have to fit in YOUR thinkingpattern ? there is NO other way in your braincells !
everything that you find strange,unknown or unexplainabe must be coming from gods !

you claim to have the truth in hand just because you say it !

i dare to say that we don't even have seen a glimpse of what activities and operations are going on in the universe and in dimensions overthere !
it is an ABSTRACT and the poor equiped humane brain can't fit abstracts without a try to put,whatever it takes, and explanation to it.

and also to trow the bible in as THE BOOK that reveals all...
read it with very critical eyes and...there is nothing left over of the value
people have added it because of favoritisme in the extreme.

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE]

Ah, I see I was mistaken.

I shouldn't have said "a little arrogant."

Leaving aside just a few points:

a) Your insistence that anyone who reads the bible will understand God's word (despite the fact that I, and thousands of people like me, have read the bible but prefer our fiction in paperback)...

b) The fact that you had the temerity to inaccurately correct my grammer (you said "Christianity", therefore I said "it". It's an "it", you see. Not a "they". Is that clear?)...

c) Your declaration that "Morons doing stupid things in the name of God is not to be mistaken with the religion of 'Christianity'"actually refers, in the examples I gave, to the Catholic Church, and the Pope in particular, and if they can't be considered Christians, who the hell can?

I'll ignore all those - partially because it'd be a bit cruel to pick on the small errors when there are much larger ones, and partially because I wouldn't want to be called "retarded" again. Ouch.

Firstly, you've got to stop picking up on hyperbole and humour and treating them like serious arguments - I know that scientists and rationalists aren't the same thing as atheists, but you'll find that most scientists and rationalists are atheists. And I wrote the examples in the full knowledge that they were self-evident, jakko - but some of us feel the need to add some measure of entertainment or informality to our posts.

Secondly -

I do know that the love of God is bigger and deeper then any of us can imagine

- you don't know that, unless you have secret evidence that you're keeping from the rest of us. You believe it. Not, my credible friend, the same thing. And if you only believe it, then you must rationally accept the possibility that you are wrong. And if there is a possibility that you are wrong, then you must admit your faith is flawed.

And if your faith is flawed, how can it be a suitable basis for your philosophical and moral codes?

Thirdly, as I stated earlier, I am no stranger to the bible. I know it's easier for you to believe - there's that word again - that everyone else is stupider than you, but it's simply not the case. Unfortunately, that negates your "the answer is in the bible, you've never read the bible, you can't possibly understand my point" argument.

But I do, jakko, I do. That's why I can summon up this little nugget to answer your question regarding NephraTari's earlier point about materialism:

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

Matthew 19 something, if I remember correctly. Of course, there's also a proverb about "In the house of the righteous is much treasure", so you can conveniently change your stance depending on the situation. Won't that be fun?

But then, you'll probably protest that the Bible was written by morons and "is not to be mistaken with the religion of 'Christianity'" either.

If you're just going to attack my posts with denial and insults, jakko, then you'd better be damn sure that you've got your facts straight - and I mean all the facts, not just the ones that suit your argument. Of course, if you really want to go toe-to-toe on the contents of the bible, contact Kano and set up a debate. I'm sure it would be an interesting experience.

If not, I suggest you scroll up the page and read some of my earlier points regarding the fundamental "evidencelessness" of religion - particularly the bit about the evangelists spoiling it for everyone - and we'll let CS' thread get back on-topic.

Originally posted by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE
how brainwashed must one be to even think that the universe just only have to fit in YOUR thinkingpattern ? there is NO other way in your braincells !

Besides your special use of the word "brainwashed", people generally don't stop having opinions just in case they are not 100% right.
With that kind of filosophy we might as well close down ATS...

everything that you find strange,unknown or unexplainabe must be coming from gods !

Is that really how you think Christianity works, or are you just pretending to be that ignorant?
I can not explain everything, neither do I know everything.
Believing in God is not the same as being God.
There is a lot I do not understand, and a lot of questions I have for God when my time on earth is done. Untill then I will try to find answers on earth, and never stop seeking truth and testing what is taught to me by both atheists and christians.

you claim to have the truth in hand just because you say it !

Having an opinion equals "claiming to have truth in hand", for something would not be your opinion if you did not believe in it.
I hear this a lot, Atheists saying that Christians act as if they know everything. Well trust me, christians do not know everything, just like every other human being on this planet. But should we hide our opinion just because others may think we act as if we know everything?