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Harder To Believe In - God or Aliens?

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posted on May, 29 2004 @ 09:25 AM
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Well, jakko, this is kind of what I'm talking about.

I told you why you were wrong on a great many occassions. They reason I haven't replied word-for-word to your last post is that it contained no points of interest, other than the same old tired "this is Christianity and this isn't because I say so" routine. As I mentioned before, you relentless denial of any argument isn't getting us anywhere. I leave those others who follow these debates to decide for themselves who made a more convincing case. Perhaps you've converted a few agnostics, perhaps not - but I realise I'll never change your mind, and I'm damn sure you won't change mine.

This is neither an excuse, nor a declaration of submission. When we meet again on these boards - and I guarantee that we will - I'll contest new and interesting topics with you until we reach this same dull conclusion. I just don't see the point in wasting everyone's time (and ATS' bandwith) repeating the same points. I have stated that I believe your position to be fundamentally compromised, you refuse to meet the meat of my challenges. Very well.

If you truly believe, in your heart of hearts, that you've "beaten" me, then yay for you. I think others might see it differently. Now please, leave yourself some scrap of dignity and don't let this descend into feeble name-calling.




posted on May, 29 2004 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by TheBorg
I'm not. Think about it for a minute. How did all of the different kinds of people come to be? Recently, there was a Chinese settlement found on the Yanghtzie River(spelling?), and they said that this site was a "hub of civilization" for the Chinese people. What bothers me is that if you take that, and piece it together with all of the other hubs, you begin to see a disturbing trend appearing. How could so many cultures be created separately on a tiny rock in the middle of nowhere? It just doesn't make any sense to me, I'm sorry.

The old artifacts do nothing but support my theory that either we came from elsewhere, or someone was here before us, and these things were left as a sign to us to get the heck off this rock before we become like them. Just a thought. And to tell me not to use ancient artifacts to support my hypotheses is kinda like asking you to not use math to show that 2+2=4. Just not plausable. Culture, I understand is easily fixed, but ancient artifacts aren't. There have been golden planes found in South America dating back to well before the time of Christ, or so my history teaches. As always, lemme know what you think.

In one post you shout and demand that people not take the Bible out of context regarding Lucifer and Satan but then readily take other cultures ancient artifacts and creation myths out of context to support your own theory that we were "placed" on Earth...ironic.

There are artifacts that cannot be readily explained but it's illogical to jump to the conclusion that it's unexplainable nature means there's an extraterrestrial influence. The model of the golden plane from S. America is an intruiging artifact but it's existence can be explained in many ways from being planted by an overzealous archaeologist to being created from a vision one of the S. American indians may have "seen". My first thought regarding the golden plane was not aliens or intelligent design.

If there was true undeniable evidence that we were "placed" here on Earth there wouldn't be any room for me to say you're incorrect. It's simply an interpretation of artifacts and creation myths taken out of context by fringe speakers untrained in the identification and translation of artifacts and creation myths of the indigenous peoples they belong to and taught half assed in books put out by Avon.



posted on May, 29 2004 @ 11:03 AM
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Well Strange, what can I say...
You started the conversation with me, attacking my religion, attacking the bible, showing especially a lot of prejudice and misunderstanding towards Christians and their religion.
I tried to explain (sometimes with a pretty wrong tone) how I see it and why I think your ideas are result of lacking knowledge.
I liked having this discussion with you, it's the type of discussion I may never have with classmates or friends even though some of them may have similar ideas.

[Edited on 29-5-2004 by Jakko]



posted on May, 29 2004 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by StrangeLands
Well, jakko, this is kind of what I'm talking about.

I told you why you were wrong on a great many occassions. They reason I haven't replied word-for-word to your last post is that it contained no points of interest, other than the same old tired "this is Christianity and this isn't because I say so" routine. As I mentioned before, you relentless denial of any argument isn't getting us anywhere. I leave those others who follow these debates to decide for themselves who made a more convincing case. Perhaps you've converted a few agnostics, perhaps not - but I realise I'll never change your mind, and I'm damn sure you won't change mine.

This is neither an excuse, nor a declaration of submission. When we meet again on these boards - and I guarantee that we will - I'll contest new and interesting topics with you until we reach this same dull conclusion. I just don't see the point in wasting everyone's time (and ATS' bandwith) repeating the same points. I have stated that I believe your position to be fundamentally compromised, you refuse to meet the meat of my challenges. Very well.

If you truly believe, in your heart of hearts, that you've "beaten" me, then yay for you. I think others might see it differently. Now please, leave yourself some scrap of dignity and don't let this descend into feeble name-calling.


Well said man, well said.



posted on May, 29 2004 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by Preest

Originally posted by TheBorg
I'm not. Think about it for a minute. How did all of the different kinds of people come to be? Recently, there was a Chinese settlement found on the Yanghtzie River(spelling?), and they said that this site was a "hub of civilization" for the Chinese people. What bothers me is that if you take that, and piece it together with all of the other hubs, you begin to see a disturbing trend appearing. How could so many cultures be created separately on a tiny rock in the middle of nowhere? It just doesn't make any sense to me, I'm sorry.

The old artifacts do nothing but support my theory that either we came from elsewhere, or someone was here before us, and these things were left as a sign to us to get the heck off this rock before we become like them. Just a thought. And to tell me not to use ancient artifacts to support my hypotheses is kinda like asking you to not use math to show that 2+2=4. Just not plausable. Culture, I understand is easily fixed, but ancient artifacts aren't. There have been golden planes found in South America dating back to well before the time of Christ, or so my history teaches. As always, lemme know what you think.

In one post you shout and demand that people not take the Bible out of context regarding Lucifer and Satan but then readily take other cultures ancient artifacts and creation myths out of context to support your own theory that we were "placed" on Earth...ironic.

There are artifacts that cannot be readily explained but it's illogical to jump to the conclusion that it's unexplainable nature means there's an extraterrestrial influence. The model of the golden plane from S. America is an intruiging artifact but it's existence can be explained in many ways from being planted by an overzealous archaeologist to being created from a vision one of the S. American indians may have "seen". My first thought regarding the golden plane was not aliens or intelligent design.

If there was true undeniable evidence that we were "placed" here on Earth there wouldn't be any room for me to say you're incorrect. It's simply an interpretation of artifacts and creation myths taken out of context by fringe speakers untrained in the identification and translation of artifacts and creation myths of the indigenous peoples they belong to and taught half assed in books put out by Avon.


Preest, I wasn't trying to take their creation myths out of context. Actually, I wasn't even trying to mention them, because I DO understand that they could easily be made into anything that I wanted it to mean. What I was referring to were the actual artifacts. In the post about Lucifer and Satan, I got a lil carried away because I've heard that so much that it makes me bug out when someone says it. Sorry if I gave a contradictory view. Actually, without having any history based on the artifacts that have been found, it makes it quite hard to formulate any semblence of a story about much of anything; it's just left as a mystery. A mystery that just leaves me wondering about what they were thinking when they made these objects. I think I see whatcha meant man. Touche. Oh, and that Avon joke was priceless. I found that quite funny.


And as always, my views could be all wet, but at least I can freely admit when I've lost, ya gotta hand me that.


[Edited on 29-5-2004 by TheBorg]



posted on May, 29 2004 @ 08:17 PM
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Jakko,
Sometimes all we can do is try. We may take some shots for it, but in the end that's the victory.
CS



posted on May, 29 2004 @ 09:11 PM
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i belive that there is only one thing to eplain our exsistance on this planet, and that is pura and utta LUCK. Even if aliens from a far away galaxy brought us here its still luck that we exsist.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by spwan
i belive that there is only one thing to eplain our exsistance on this planet, and that is pura and utta LUCK. Even if aliens from a far away galaxy brought us here its still luck that we exsist.


Please explain that further, if you would. Luck is no more than probability. And I don't see how it was all based on probability that we made it this far. You make it sound like a crapshoot, when I can't believe that for several reasons, one of which is that it'd be way too easy for something to happen to ruin our chances of survival. We came to be because of more than probability man.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 08:34 AM
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spwan,
Please go into more detail. Pure luck may imply evolution in its purest form. Where do you think the universe came from?
CS



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 10:56 AM
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Pure luck? No way. We had to come from somewhere. The other thing is the extremely fragile balance of all nature, our entire solar system that allows us to exist.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by Paraclete
Pure luck? No way. We had to come from somewhere. The other thing is the extremely fragile balance of all nature, our entire solar system that allows us to exist.


we do not know what factors are needed to give a planet life , it could be water/temperature/certain chemicals/stable orbit with moon and a large planet to stop most rogue space rocks - if that is all that is needed then i think luck is a good part of it. luck being against odds but still possible - maybe even probable

why do we HAVE to come from somewhere?

why are people always going all spiritual and thinking there is more to this than meets the eye.

at this moment in time there are countless religions with some conflicting beliefs , there are alien abductees/contactees , psychics etc etc . none have come forward with a shred of convincing evidence = out of all these people , millions of them , not one bit of evidence has emerged that people can examine and say that "THIS" exists as a fact

now all these people cant be all correct , some have to be making it up , some have to be a little bit mad , some have convinced themselves they know things that arent real etc. if some are making it up - why cant all of them be making it up ? what is with this planets fascination to think that something magical and wonderfull is there waiting, are you really that bored with life that you need even more weirdness - real life is the oddest thing i have ever seen , why do people make it weirder?

anyway - the point being we have life here now , we know it exists , we dont have god, aliens, ghosts here etc so i think the chances of it being a natural "lucky" thing a hell of a lot more probable than some mystical force doing the rounds



[Edited on 30-5-2004 by acidhead]



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 01:28 PM
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AH
You're right, we don't know what it takes to maintain a livable planet. But we do know that even most minute change in the balance will destroy our ability to live. That is controlled by the Creator.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 01:47 PM
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"What if god were an alien"....hmmm

Heres the deal....

I don't believe in a God, period. Don'y care what anyone says or tries to prove, its just as least likely as the Earth being the Centre of the Universe.

Every Nation has a God, what makes one more than special than the other, if there is only one God, why do nations believe in there own? Over Centuries many cultures belived in there God/s, but where were they to save those people that gave so much of there life? Where are they now?

The world is in, and has been in bitter times for way too long. Relgion is nothing short of Hypnotism, if it makes people feel good after a session, then thats fine.

A Commanding voice, might not go a miss, if nothing else, but, all you can hear is the wind. That isnt a GOD, its the world around us. Its funny, over decades people have said this is "Gods work", yet as those times come to pass. science puts forward its defininition of it. To be honest, peeople in white suits studying astrophysics are more compelling and beliving than some Elephant with 8 arms, or a guy thats supposed to black and yet portraied as white.

Im not going to "Diss" the people whom believe in religion, after all, they must have the most open mind of us all, but yet, they cannot embrace the fact, that there might not be a God.

I believe in Extra Terrestrials, but at the same time can easily dismiss the fact they could be out there.

If I were to say which one I believe in more, it would be EBEs, over God.

Why???

For every grain of sand on every beach, there are countless more Stars in a Galaxy, for every grain of sand on every beach, there are more Galaxies in our Universe.

Lifes to diverse here to dismiss it from taking a grasping hold on Oxygene, Methan, Carbon Diaoxide or any other gas. Life can evolve to its surroundings. Elephants with 8 arms didn't create that, the Cosmos itself did.

I cant see into the future, or gaze into the past, I cannot fly to the moon, or swim 5 mile deep, but I know this, what I see, what I believe is my or your own choice. You don't need a book to tell you this, or people wearing robes, its for everyone to make there own mind up.

I have mine set, no one can move that from, as I to you. What I do say however is, if it came down to a bet, Id put money on scientists finding another lifeform, way before they could find there dominator.

Iridium

"Theres 10 kinds of people whom understand binary, those that do and those that don't"



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 01:49 PM
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acidhead: Please explain to me how luck is possible? Define luck. Luck is no more than probability, and I don't see how it could be anything but.

And as for why it is that every civilization has a fascination with thinking there's a higher power, think about it. People want to believe that they will be ever-evolving, ever living. It also seems kind of erroneous to assume that we come here, spend our lives busting our asses to make ends meet, just to die and become nothing. What a waste of time. If everyone thought like that, can you imagine how life here would be? If everyone KNEW that there was just this life, and nothing beyond. Life would literally be hell. There's always the element of hope man, and that's what me and about 6 Billion others believe too. And that's also why I believe that "nothing" cannot exist, which is also why I used it there.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 02:06 PM
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Iridium: It's just playing odds for some, but for others like myself, it's from actual experience that we came to believe what we believe. You yourself admit to being a betting man, "What I do say however is, if it came down to a bet, Id put money on scientists finding another lifeform, way before they could find there dominator. If you play odds, they are more in favor of a God than they are against.

Let's say, for the course of argument, that God doesn't exist. You choose to not believe in him, you die, and are no more. Now if you believe there's a God, and you die, there's no God on the other side, and your in the same position as you were if you didn't believe, but you felt a lot better about yourself throughout your life, and did the best you could for society, to ensure that there would be something good on the other side.

Now, let's say that God is real. You don't believe, only to get to the other side to find that he is, and then you take on whatever responsibilities that believing that had to offer. Now if you do believe, you get there, God looks at you, nods, and you continue on in your ever evolving existence.

So you see, I'm gonna err on the side of caution by believing, since it doesn't matter either way for me. It's those that don't believe that have the most to lose. At the same time though, I think most people, regardless of beliefs, want the same things in life. I certainly hope that your life is as fulfilling as I hope mine is, and even if you don't find a God, it doesn't matter. If what you say is true, then we're all bickering about senseless BS, which makes me wonder why you came here in the first place. But if what I say is true, then maybe, just maybe, there's hope for us all. I can only pray for the answer to be found soon. Peace.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Iridium 90

1. but yet, they cannot embrace the fact, that there might not be a God.

2. For every grain of sand on every beach, there are countless more Stars in a Galaxy, for every grain of sand on every beach, there are more Galaxies in our Universe.


1. You're right. By definition if you believe in God you cannot embrace the fact, that there might not be a God. That's because, when you beileve in God, you embrace Him.

2. Isn't it wonderful. For those who beleive it's a tremendous and awesome display of God's power.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 02:18 PM
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I came here to post info on my own experiences with close encounters, which I did, not talk about the Afterlife.

I hope the believers out there are correct, there is something more to life than flesh and blood.

Call me a doubting Thomas, but thats who I am. I have to see, or feel to believe in something. I was not around 2000 years ago, and I wont see the next 2000 years (If the chosen one returns then), but I do believe in whats real and isnt. Im happy in a material world, I know what I see, I drink and eat what I choose, I gaze amongst the stars beauty, wishing I could be there, I talk and hold lovely women, I enjoy the company of friends, and animals, I listen to music that both inspires, and sends me into a trance like state. Thats Euphoria, not some old guy whom has been classed as the closest person to God, or God itself giving me words on how to live, or whats out there. I honestly don't care if I die, and there ISNT anyhing after it, so long as this life has been worth it. Thats what I choose and do.

I do believe my life, as yours, and the other 6 billion of us poor "souls" are not alone out there. I just cannot picture someone with bigs hands reaching round the planet, saying "Your my children, I will protect you" Done a lousy job so far.............

Iridium


"Theres 10 kinds of people whom understand binary, those that do and those that don't"



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by StrangeLands

Originally posted by Raphael
If you ever see an alien claiming to be God do not believe it because no alien created the earth or the heavens.



Originally posted by Raphael
My guess is God is from the most powerfull civilization in the universe


So which is it, Raph?

I thank you, by the way, for answering all of my earlier questions. Well, all except the first one. For the purposes of understanding your frequent predictions and declarations, I'll ask again.

Where is your evidence?

Anything will do! A single unarguable, beyond-debunking nugget of truth will suffice - but without it, this argument is doomed to be nothing more than metaphysical posturing and bickering over semantics.

Reject religion! Embrace rationality! We're all nice people, I promise - *our* Cathedrals sell paperbacks at a reasonable price and have coffee shops in them!


I do not believe Aliens are God yet I do believe God and Angels travel like UFO's..

I am not saying what I have said above is fact but from my experience I believe in all my heart what I saw. I am just making my own judgement of the situation based on my experience with UFO's and God. From the age of 4 through the age of 8 I used to get visited by a demon. This was not like you see in the movies or in comic books. I lay down to go to sleep and sort of meditate. After reaching a state of almost asleep yet still awake I used to see shadows in the air as they danced accross the room. This went on for about one month before I was able to bring myself to that same state at will. As the months went on I had "nightmares" but the nightmares were vivid dream like states where I was conscious in every moment and communicating with a being in the flesh. As far as I know when you dream it is your subconscious that directs and controls what you dream. For me I was making conscious decisions and speaking with free will in these dreams almost like I wasnt dreaming at all but rather someplace else and fully awake. He was a hooded man with eyes of fire and he wore a black hooded article of clothing. I remember him saying he could make me powerfull and wanted me to follow him into what looked like a bottomless pit. Even at 5 years old I was calling this the abyss and felt if I entered I would never make it back. I asked the man who he was and he told me he was belzebub. When I refused to enter the darkness which had no bottom the man tried to give me a piece of jewelry. I refused and said he was evil. I then suddenly awoke. I was facing my window and 3 feet away from me was the most freightening thing I have ever seen. I felt and heard buzzing inside me as if I was surrounded by bees. In front of me was a 5 - 7 foot tall being. The being had 2 small eyes and 1 giant eye in the center of it's head. The eyes were all black like you would see on a bug or insect. The middle eye was probably 6 inches long and 4 inches wide. It had skin that was scales like you would see on a reptile yet this was no reptile like I had ever seen. It's arms were short and narrow and it had 3 fingers atthe end of each arm which were also like it's skin. I remember 3 long black nails aswell. The demon was standing outside my second floor window on the roof of one of the downtairs rooms which shot out farther then the upstairs area of the house. I was so afraid I only looked for a few seconds before screaming and running to my fathers room. My father remembers the fear in my eyes to this day yet nobody has ever asked what I saw and I have never trusted to tell anyone because I am not crazy and I know thats all my friends and family would think. My father held me in his arms to comfort me and walked downstairs to our living room. As we reached the living room I saw in the corner of my eye a stocky man with a stick or staff run around the corner of the house outside as if chasing the demon. This was not the only time I was visited or controlled by this being in my thougts and dreams yet it is the only memories I have. The descrition of the event above was the final and last time I ever saw the demo although there were other occasions before in which I haven't mentioned. From that last visit on I slept with a nightlight abd left the outside lights on every night while I slept. I never saw this demon / being again.
------------------------------------------------------
years later
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I woke up one morning and felt like I wasnt alone. Similar to the demonic feeling I had when that demon came to me only this was a good feeling. In fact it was such a good feeling I had no doubt it was God. The way the sun was beaming through the trees and touching the ground like fingers of the sun was amazing. All the colors outside seemed bright and more vivid. It was an unbelievable feeling. I said to God I now know of your true existence. I prayed that God would not judge me for all the wrong things I have done or that I will do because I knew I could not live a perfect life. I said to God I know he judges us in truth and fairness but to please look down on me with love. I began to feel sad and despair because I knew again that I could not live a sinless life before God. I remember having a vision of a scroll which was a contract but I agreed and put all my faith and life into God's hands. To make a longer story short I had some communications with God. I prayed to die and for God to take me up with him while staring up at the sky. I had some visions and prophecy told to me. I layed back down in bed after about 1 hour of conversing with a higher power and I wanted to die so that I could be sin free and enter the kingdom and be with God. I began to pray in hebrew and quoted things from the new testement. I tucked my hands under my body and stuffed my head into a pilow so I could not breathe. I felt my breath fading and I think I died but Im not sure. I cried out God help me. Nothing happened.. With my last breath I then cried out Jesus Mary and a bright light appeared in the sky descending. It was a bright clear sunny day and all the sky was deep blue. No clouds anywhere in site. This light came out of the sky like a bright star and then split into three UFO's. I did not see metal disks like in the pictures. What I saw was bright lights like stars moving. Two of them hovered over me to the right and the other lowered to what appeard to be the tree line yet the object was still just a bright light no more then an inch in diameter. A bright light began to move toward me like a small bubble in the air. A softball sized light flew through the window of my bedroom and over the bed I was laying in. Out of the light appeared an Angel with wings just like you see in pictures. I felt afraid but I could not move anything but my eyes. Was I dead? I tried to look but only saw the Angel from behind. I believe it was a female because I felt such love and comfort. I said to the Angel "I am afraid yet I feel your love." The Angel then moved behind me out of my site. I heard jingles almost like the Angel was wearing jewelry. I began to say prayers again before asking the Angel for a name. The Angel replied to me Anal. I then saw one of the other UFO's come within 20 feet of my window but all I saw was movement for a split second before I was engulfed by bright light and lost consciousness. I awake for 3 seconds up in the sky in black feathers descending to the ground. I heard a voice in my head saying it was not my time. I blacked out again. I awoke again yet it was now night time 2:13 AM looking up at the sky in the same way as when the event began. It felt like the entire event was 20 minutes long yet it had lasted from roughly 3- 4 PM until 2:00 AM. In the night sky I saw 3 stars up by Orion spin around and dissapear into space. I was so afraid at what had just happened because my family was not religious. I had never read the bible before. I walked down my hallway upstairs in my house when I felt someone was with me. Again I asked who it was. He/She replied "Raphael" "God has healed." I remember thinking to myself, Raphael? A spanish name? I walked downstairs to my family room and sat on the sofa when I was told my name was now rock. I replied saying "Why not call me stick or pebble?" I said to Raphael this would be our little secret. He told me it would be our secret until the time was right.
All of these memories had left my mind for over a decade. All I remembered was the final moment when I awoke and saw the lights spin and dissapear. For over 10 years I thought I was abducted by aliens or greys but in fact what my UFO experience involved was Angels.. I still don't have full recall of memory of these events but I remember more every day. I would say I remember 70% of the event. I spoke things in hebrew which I do not understand and I wish there was a way to bring those memories out and find out what I really said or more importantly what was being conveyed to me.

Ever since my memories of this event I have believed in Jesus and the Angels and I was raised Jewish. I have not gone into complete detail of these events because it would just take too long but if you know anyone else who has had first hand experience with God, Angels, UFO's and Demons then by all means I would love to hear from them but based on my experience and scientific background I will stand by my beliefs.

From my experience when you speak with Angels or higher beings it is not an audible conversation. I can only describe it as memory triggers or thought triggers. It was like doing a search in google and having the info your searching for popup. I would say something and the thought/aswer would be returned to me in thought triggers. All of what happened to me I had no previous knowledge of prayers / religion/ etc but the thoughts popped in my head as I asked questions. It was like an inner voice with visions attached to the words. Ok I have said enough.

I believe Raphael is always watching me and it gives me strength. I also believe from this event when you die you go to another place. There is no need to fear death because I have seen the other side and I have been to the gates of heaven with the Angels. At least thats all I can make of my experience.

Did I really see Angels? Was it government mind control testing? I don't know but my heart tells me it was real Angels and a Demon.


[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Raphael]



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 02:42 PM
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Well Iridium,
It's a little off topic but, I think it's us who have done a lousy job. After all He gave us free will to do what we desire. I guess His choice would have been better.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 03:08 PM
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Hmm, words like Free Will seem to turn up alot here. Its an easy way to to sidestep whats already been said.

"Gods Freewill"...I meen what could that meen, it meens that anything that cannot be classified or explained by religion, is what this term falls into when taken into mans/womans own hands.

"Gods Creation" Yes if thats what you believe, we indeed are.

"Gods Will is Infinite" Maybe, or was it man that said this? Was he the full cookie?

"God Works in Mysterious Ways", another prime example of putting a few words together to equal just about any possibility. It dosnt disprove, or prove anything. Its just someone speaking those words to describe something that he/she couldnt comprehend happening.

Im British, yet when I saw the Two Towers collapse my heat lept from my mouth. I felt such sorrow towards my American Cousins, whom, and you might not believe this, Love, very much. They are more a part of the UK then you could ever know. Yet the people that did this, were religious to there God, whom promised them a Virgin for every American Killed.

Is that God right or Wrong? To them, YES, it is, to "OUR" or the God that you believe in, NO it isnt. So whos right and whos wrong. God was supposed to be closer to them, than some unknown country....

BUT, God works in Mysterious Ways dosnt he, so those people dying from a boeing 747 is ok, along with those that didnt die instantly, they suffered, engine fuel in there lungs, crippled spines, burnt flesh, crushed bones.

It makes me want to cry for those innocent people, cry alot, and I still feel that way. Is this from a God that supposed to be looking out for us.
Was it Gods wrath that let it happen, did the American people deserve this???????? Or was it "FREE WILL", if its free will, then whats the point in looking towards a God, we might as well continue in this road of distruction.

He couldnt give a rats arse what happens. Were supposed to be made in his own way, a bit pointless if were all dead.......I dont think spirits count.

Too much pain, too much suffering, too much poverty, too much abuse. Oh sorry, its Gods Free Will, that makes it all ok. Lets carry on.

It annoys me, that were still looking forward to hope in the 21Century from some divine intervention, when we should be looking into ourselves to solve it. We are the Key, to anger, to hate, to love, to passion, to greed, fear, to lust. ITs us, not something out there looking over us... Wake up, open your eyes, its not books, its not words, its not crosses, its not fables and tales, its you that can make a difference.

I dont believe in relgion, I belive in people. They or you can make things right, not text book phropecies, or words of wisdom.

Life is now, what we make it. If there was an afterlife, Id have several hundred souls, and a few angels giving me beef over this one, as it happens,,,,,,,,,no, supprisingly.

And just to say, Im not flaming or putting people out for there beliefs, they are there own, and I wish they hold on to them. For whatever there reason. This is mine, and no one elses. I dont meen to offend, and hope I didnt, but sometimes you have to speak your mind, which I just did.


Iridium

"Theres 10 kinds of people whom understand binary, those that do and those that don't"


[Edited on 30-5-2004 by Iridium 90]

[Edited on 30-5-2004 by Iridium 90]



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