Harder To Believe In - God or Aliens?

Why are you asking so many questions? Your confusing me with the ongoing chain of reproduction

but bicnarok saying that evolution is right then maybe all creatures just adapted to the earth climate and such.

There is no such thing as evolution.

In answer to the original question, I find it harder to believe in God than aliens. Alien evidence is more tangible than any proof of God.

Do I believe in God? Not exactly. I believe in something, for lack of a better word we can call it God. I believe there is some sort of higher power for there is too much unexplained. I don't believe in God as taught by the church.

Have you ever seen the movie Stigmata? I don't remember the exact quote, but in the end they were translating the lost chapter to the bible. The chapter wrote by Jesus. The way it went was "The church does not lie in buildings of wood and stone, but in the heart of men" or something along those lines. The church is a multi-billion dollar industry built on faith. I cannot see spending money to show other people I believe in something.

Also, I remember reading a book. I think it was called Chariots of Fire, the authors name escapes me. It's been a few years. Anyway, the author claimed that our vision of God was aliens. He claims that there is an ancient Chinese manuscript that was wrote 1000 yrs or more before the bible that tells roughly the same story, just with different characters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going with his information, weren't the disciples all scholars of their time? Didn't the scholars back then travel to foreign lands in order to study? Is anyone else familiar with this book?

I do believe there is something over us and aliens, a keeper of the souls. I don't think he is anything like is explained. I don't believe he keeps a vigilant watch over us. I don't believe he sent down his word for us to follow.

I am not an atheist, just a skeptic.

Originally posted by keymaster
Have you ever seen the movie Stigmata? I don't remember the exact quote, but...

"The kingdom of God is within you and all around you. It is not within buildings of wood or stone. Split a piece of wood and you will find me. Look beneath a stone and I am there."

Thanks for the quote. Now, who can argue the truth to that one?

Is it possible that there is both... God and aliens?

Aliens exist. We are proof. (to another race on another world we are aliens)

God exist. We are here. (Why would God need to prove him/her/itself to anyone)

These are two separate intities. Neither one should be included with the other. I have seen proof of 'UFOs', and all one has to do is look around to see the proof of God's existance. I believe there are both. God and Aliens. I do not however, believe that God is an alien. Nor do I believe that aliens are gods. Aliens may be smarter than us for now... but that is changing. One should never get the two confused. It cannot hurt to believe in the existance of God, and I personally do not believe in God the way almost everyone believes in him/her/it now. However, it could very well hurt all of us if we do not accept that aliens have and do visit our planet.

I believe religion as it is today and has been throughout history has been something that 'man' has made up to control the masses. It could not have always been like that, but it has become more controlling, however, with more and more of us existing upon this planet at the same time. Control of the masses...




[edit on 2/10/2005 by No1nptkulr]

Basically, that's what I was trying to say. There is God and there is aliens. However, I believe some of our vision of God is confused with aliens. The people in earlier times tried to explain away everything they didn't understand by attributing it to God. I don't believe God has ever visited Earth or even spoke physically to the people of Earth. I do believe aliens have.

Picture this, you're walking around in biblical times. Suddenly you hear a voice speaking to you. You know nothing of amplification systems or walkie talkie connections. You would believe it was the Lord speaking to you. The only convincing you would need is for the voice to say "Yes, I'm your Lord."

I believe most of what the church teaches to be wrong. That doesn't mean I'm an atheist and don't believe in God.

Originally posted by keymaster
Basically, that's what I was trying to say. There is God and there is aliens. However, I believe some of our vision of God is confused with aliens. The people in earlier times tried to explain away everything they didn't understand by attributing it to God. I don't believe God has ever visited Earth or even spoke physically to the people of Earth. I do believe aliens have.

Picture this, you're walking around in biblical times. Suddenly you hear a voice speaking to you. You know nothing of amplification systems or walkie talkie connections. You would believe it was the Lord speaking to you. The only convincing you would need is for the voice to say "Yes, I'm your Lord."

I believe most of what the church teaches to be wrong. That doesn't mean I'm an atheist and don't believe in God.

good post...

The othodox belief in God isn't true. God can't exist. I can kill any theory of God. We know that aliens were reffered to as "gods". The god of Israel is absoluytely false. There is no sole supreme authority. God can't exist in the orthodox sense due to the fact if God existed before matter,which he created, then what did he form from? What dimension does he live in? he can't be the ruler of all dimensions because they are ever changing and endless. How could god possibly live consciously on all levels?


[edit on 13-2-2005 by Asia Minor]

I wouldn't say God existed before all matter as that is impossible. However, is it not possible that an entity exists beyond our scope of sight that in some way has helped shape the world as we know it? I mean isn't it possible that our little bubble in the vastness of space was and is created and controlled by a "higher" power? God is a rather loose term used to describe an omnipotent being. I'm not saying to have faith in him/her/it, rather I am saying isn't it possible that something exists.

If you absolutely deny the existence of God, how will you ever learn the truth about it? You imply that no amount of evidence (as of yet unfound; which technically holds true for aliens and ufo's as well) can convince you otherwise. Denial is ignorance.

I've said it before and I'll say it again

Yes, the church is wrong in its teachings
Yes, there is an omnipotent being responsible for our creation

You can argue that till your blue in the face, but you cannot disprove anything I've said. You stated above that you can disprove any theory on God out there. Let's here it.

he can't be the ruler of all dimensions because they are ever changing and endless.

The only people who believe that are with the church. Could there not be more than one God? We have a God, Alpha Centuri 16 has a God, etc. Your arguements only discredit the church.

and how do you know how God percieves time.

You haven't given me anything to disprove. God isn't real on all levels to me. How can he be real? "Because it's just so" doesn't really say anything.

You aren't getting my point. I don't want you to say "yes, there's a God". I do want you to acknowledge that the possibility exists.

We don't know!

You have shown no proof that God doesn't exist either. As of right now, it's a matter of faith. I'm not asking you to change your beliefs/opinions, but I want to know how you can say that you know that there is no God? If you can prove this, great. It would settle a lot of debate.

As far as I know, there is no solid evidence to prove either case.

How can he be real?

I think the better question is "how can he not be real?" Explain the creation of Earth without God. I've posted my definition of God in my other posts. Without some sort of help, I can't figure out how we formed. One day we were a single cell organism, then we became a monkey, then man?

No matter how you look at it, God has played in integral part in the history of the Earth. There is no other single source that has influenced history as much as God. Millions have died for their beliefs, whether it be God, Allah, Buddah, etc. Vast places of worship have been built, treasures have been given, lives have been lived for, artwork has been made for, God. Countries have changed, governments have shifted, revolutions have been caused by one thing, God. God has been a source of inspiration since the dawn of man. God has given many a reason to keep on going even when the odds are against them. When faced with tragedy, people turn to God. God gives the common man a reason for life.

Does that alone not make God real?

[edit on 2/15/2005 by keymaster]

God isn't real and these fanatics dying for a story character doesn't make him real. Allah came about the same way Atum-Ra and the Christian God came about. One person felt closer to that god andmade him the only and supreme god. Allah was promoted by Muhammad who had assistance from sorcerers and occultist to support the Allah the same way Akhanaton wanted Atum to be the highest God. But he beleived Ra descende from Atum so he branded it Atum Ra. Man made god, God didn't make man. If you really want to get deeper, they found the tomb of Osiris in Egypt. he was merely a man, not a god. God is a story character. We are here because of aliens . They designed this world and created all of the inhabiting beings. They exist and live by science and we have seen videos of them. They were referred to as Gods. the ancients didn't beleive in some skywalking man with blonde hair and a magic finger. That can't exist.

Originally posted by Asia Minor
God isn't real and these fanatics dying for a story character doesn't make him real.

What is real? Do you have to touch it and see it for it to be real? Does existence define reality? Does there have to be a physical presence? Is not love real? Is not anger real? Can you physically feel either? No, but you can feel them through our actions.

We are here because of aliens . They designed this world and created all of the inhabiting beings. They exist and live by science and we have seen videos of them.

Where did they come from? I don't discredit that we were brought by aliens. I've been saying that the whole time. Who created them? Did they just spring out of a mud puddle? There has to be a beginning somewhere. There has to be a creation time.

They were referred to as Gods. the ancients didn't beleive in some skywalking man with blonde hair and a magic finger. That can't exist.

Once again, yes, they were referred to as gods. I know that. You keep arguing the wrong points. You dodge all the questions I bring up because you can't answer them. You keep arguing the correctness of the churchs' philosophy. In almost every post I have said the church is wrong. I don't believe the bible. It is just a story. But where did life originate if not from some infinite source? I don't mean just our life, I mean all life, Earthly and not. Show me one shred of evidence that proves that there can't be a God and I will be silenced. All of your thinking is tied to the church. Try thinking OUTSIDE the box. Forget the church, the bible and jesus. That's not what this is about. This is about the FACT that all life came from somewhere. Even if aliens created aliens, who/what created those aliens?

I have found some quotes from yourself that might help you with this thread.

Most critics have a arguement simply based on disbeleif but have no substance on which they can say it isn't.

All you guys that are always skeptics are much further from the truth than true information analyzers. There is a difference between a skeptic and realist. A skeptic generally, but not all, have a limited view and bleak perception based on his beleifs that were not formed even by himself. A realist judges the facts and weighs the substance of reality in the issue at hand.

And Father guy, generally, you counter someone's claim with something with ssome ubstance other than your own mere doubt.

[edit on 2/16/2005 by keymaster]

Man, you got me all mistyeyed. You admire my quotes and I'm here debating with you. I'm switching topics.

I don't exactly admire your quotes, but I do have a couple more.

Some people are stupid enough to wonder " if Iran has a electricity producing dam why do they want a nuclear reactor?" I guess the Lord makes them as dumb as he needs them. Dams do not exist throughout Iran.

Have anyone ever thought maybe Adolf Hitler was God in the flesh? Mabe Adolf wanted to create a blonde haired blue eyed world so that they may rule with the gods. Adolf Hitler maybe was trying to rush his great plan by assuming military leadership himself. Think about it. He was to smart to be human. If aliens attack the world and take over he isn't here do fend them off. So what will the world do without God?

My question is this, which is it? Do you believe or not? For such a non-believer, your posts seem to imply something else. I put the enough of each post here, so you wouldn't say I am taking it out of context. I ask though, how can someone how denies God's existence say, "I guess the Lord makes them as dumb as he needs them?"

Gods are ALIENS. How many times do I have to say this. Some topics aren't about aliens so I say god to keep from straying away from the issue.
For instance if we were talking about Hitler then if I mentioned E.Ts the debate would change on my personal beliefs. Pretty much how Asia's and Obsidian's begin to stray from the moon issue. Catch my drift? It seems that since you can't prove god is "real" your trying to simply disprove me. If you understood the Hitler issue you would have an idea. Hitler wanted a BLONDE-HAIRED and BLUE-EYED race. Maybe, to create a race of Lyrian-like population in resemblence to the Nordic-aliens that are reported now and then. Your idea of god is impossible. For example, in the human brain every square inch is responsible for hundreds of millions of synapses. The Mongoloids average is 1450+. The Negro i beleive ,I may be mistaken, is 1385 cubic centimeters. Thus we see in life a cultural and intellectual gap in these two races. Mongoloids have a greater thought procession than the latter group as well. On the next level we have E.Ts which are said to have disproportionly large heads. With this they have superior technology, mind reading capabilities and the ability to transfer thoughts. Yet, they have a considerably larger volume of head mass than your most well developed human and I would assume greater synapses. If god exist in the form of a man it is impossible for him to do the things the bible claims he did. His brain and mind wouldn't have those capabilities. Not only that but the idea of god existing is IMPOSSIBLE. Their can not be a given limit of volume and capacity to be ALL-KNOWING and omnipresence isn't possible anway. The closest thing to that is simply a blur. Yet, that is simply obstructed vision.
I'm saying that in order to process the universe you can't exist in a humanoid fashion or any form because the universe is endless and the ability to process it from the what your talking about isn't nowhere near possible. Not only that ,but God can't be the Creator as because he is made of matter and what created him? He must be made of something and therefore can't hold supreme rank. But he isn't "he".

[edit on 17-2-2005 by Asia Minor]

I wasn't trying to disprove you as much as bait you into giving me some actual reasons for your beliefs. Your responses are nothing but your ideas and questions. You gave no proof to back you up. You finally gave something concrete to battle with.

Hitler was a fool. What he did had nothing to do with aliens. He was a manic depressive among other things.

A link about Hitler's madness
mywebpages.comcast.net...

As far as your brain size theory, I find little validity in it. I can find nothing that absolutely proves large head size to equal increased brain function. I did however find this.

In my own published work, uncited by Gould, I have shown that brain sizes vary systematically by race -- but not to the benefit of Caucasians. For what it is worth, Mongoloids average about a cubic inch more than Caucasoids and over three cubic inches more than Negroids. This result has been corroborated many times since 1980, and by every available technique. And these findings are in line with the (by now) accepted IQ results: the average IQ scores for ``African,'' ``Latino,'' ``White,'' ``Asian,'' and ``Jewish'' Americans are 85, 89, 103, 106, and 115, respectively. Of course, whether these differences are the result of genetic or environmental influences, and whether (or to what extent) they are remediable by purposeful action -- these remain matters of dispute.

taken from
www.nationalreview.com...

and this

Rushton's (1991) own data illustrate the point. Within the Caucasoid grouping, a 1969 sample of Iranian soldiers is given an average estimated cranial capacity of 1356 cm3, whereas a 1966 sample of American Army soldiers has an average of 1470 cm3. Similarly, a 1967 us Air Force sample has 1539 cm3, whereas a 1975 German Air Force sample has 1455 cm3. Within the Mongoloid grouping, a 1963 sample of Thai soldiers has an estimated average of 1340 cm3, whereas a 1965 sample of South Vietnamese has 1299 cm3. All of these differences are much larger than the differences obtained between Negroid (1449 cm3), Caucasoid (1468 cm3), and Mongol- oid (1464 cm3) enlisted men from a 1988 us Army cohort using Rushton's (1992) terms and data. There are also secular changes within a culture and racial group (Haug, 1984; Miller & Corsellis, 1977). For example, us Air Force personnel measured in 1967 had estimated brain sizes that exceeded by 68 cm3 values from a us Air Force sample drawn in 1950 (Rushton, 1991). In face of such variation within groupings, between cultures for similar groupings, and between different cohorts drawn within a culture, generally valid statements about race differences are difficult to make.

Two additional points need to be made. Rushton and Ankney (1995) suggest that cranial capacity estimates for Mongoloid-, Caucasoid-, and Negroid-Americans are 1416, 1380, and 1359 cm3, respectively, indicating larger differences than Rushton's (1992) values given above for these groups (1464, 1468, 1449cm3). The former values for the three groups represent cranial capacity estimates which are based on values corrected for body parameters (Rushton, 1992). To perform this correction, Rushton used slopes for the log/log plot of brain against body weight which are not appropriate for within- species comparisons (Harvey, 1988). For comparison of individuals drawn from the same species, a slope which is almost horizontal is appropriate, and should be close to the .08 determined empirically by Reed and Jensen (1993). This is borne out by other available evidence. Wickett et al. (1994) state that for their sample of white women, it would appear that the size of the brain is largely independent of body size (p. 836). Similarly, Jerison (1979) found no significant association between body weight or height and brain weight for men within the age range of 29 to 41 years of age. A conservative conclusion is that there is no legitimate reason for using steep slopes in comparing brain/body size relations across races. As a result, statements about brain size differences between races should not rely on adjusted values, and it is not appropriate to conclude that higher IQ's in Asians are linked to larger brain size.

The issue of race/brain size/IQ invites a return to the sex/brain size/IQ issue. Rushton's (1992) data show that the estimated cranial capacity of Negroid-American men is some 13-14% higher than that of Caucasoid-American women, even though the average I Q for the former is presumably lower. How can this be integrated into a model of larger brain => higher IQ without qualifying the meaning of brain size comparisons across sexes, or revisiting the issue of what factors other than brain size have a bearing on IQ? This question once again emphasizes the unresolved issues of how brain weight/ body parameters can be compared across sexes, races, and age cohorts.

Finally, the small absolute differences in brain size between Mongoloids, Caucasoids, and Negroids in Rushton's (1992) data base should be evaluated relative to cohort data. We have seen that values from two Air Force samples drawn 17 years apart showed estimated brain size differences that are larger than the differences reported between races in the 1988 common age cohort. It is legitimate to ask whether the contemporary Negroid- and Caucasoid-American samples described in the common 1988 age cohort could not differ as much from each other in undefined demographic and nutritional variables as the cohort samples from 1950 and 1967 differed from each other.

taken from
www.svt.ntnu.no...

The first corroborates what you say, but the second argues his work. Saying that he might not have taken other effects into consideration.

You bring the bible up again. I'm not arguing the bible. What makes you believe God exists in a humanoid form? Technically yes, God is an alien just for the simple fact he isn't from Earth.

Merriam-Webster

omnipotent - having virtually unlimited authority or influence

I've said before that I don't believe he is all-knowing, as that isn't possible. I do believe he is onipotent. The key word in that definition is virtually. Everything has limits. That is one of the keys to existence. I don't believe God has a form, rather he is more of a force, e.g. gravity, magnetism, etc. Unlike other forces (at least as far as is known), he is capable of thought or something like thought or perhaps he isn't. I don't know. I do know that his force does exist. I have never said he was made of matter nor took on a humanoid form.

I have said my piece. Arguing this is pointless as it is all a matter of beliefs. Now that you weren't quite so vague in your response, I am done, as this is an unwinnable fight on both sides.

[edit on 2/19/2005 by keymaster]