Harder To Believe In - God or Aliens?

Iridium: Well said. Even though I disagree with you on a couple points, I find that quite interesting. Actually, your views on life are not too far from my own, except for the fact that I believe in a God. On the subject of the terrorists that did that heinous act against us, all I have to say to them is that they need to finish reading what was given to them. My current beliefs are that God wants us to be peaceful, but if someone screws with us, ONLY then do we act. My God teaches about peace, and I'd be one of the last people to condone attacking someone just because they made me mad. Yet that's exactly what I find happening in the world around me. People are being killed simply because they think differently than everyone else.

I should point out that I don't care what anyone believes, honest, I don't. All that I care about is that when someone makes a statement concerning their beliefs, that they keep everything in perspective. You have a good grasp I'm sure on your beliefs, and I won't challenge you on them. All that I ask is that we all unite to stop a common foe. Whether you're an atheist or a Muslim, evil still is a huge part of our existence. Why not band together to stop it, instead of bickering at one another over petty differences. Just a thought.

I have to go. Bout to storm here. Peace.

I don't know what I believe and am not ready to find out either, but I know from personal experience that Aliens seem more tangible. I believe that most people believe that there is a deffinite possibility of other intelligent life forms-that the universe is just too big and unknown to think there isn't. Now that isn't to say that most people believe in little green men crashing in New Mexico. Also I find that the belief in God does not affect most peoples acceptance that we are not the only ones. I also think it's easier for those that believe in god to also believe in aliens and that the opposite is not true. Aliens seem to be accepted by everyone in theory atleast. I think it all boils down to the more tangible one. God isn't tangible, he isn't meant to be tangible. Aliens are however, they are organisms etc. I also think it's easier to believe in a peer opposed to a higher power.

Lythium: LOL!! I love that quote. Found it hysterical. Sorry Iridium, but it is kinda funny.

Originally posted by Lythium
I don't know what I believe and am not ready to find out either, but I know from personal experience that Aliens seem more tangible. I believe that most people believe that there is a deffinite possibility of other intelligent life forms-that the universe is just too big and unknown to think there isn't. Now that isn't to say that most people believe in little green men crashing in New Mexico. Also I find that the belief in God does not affect most peoples acceptance that we are not the only ones. I also think it's easier for those that believe in god to also believe in aliens and that the opposite is not true. Aliens seem to be accepted by everyone in theory atleast. I think it all boils down to the more tangible one. God isn't tangible, he isn't meant to be tangible. Aliens are however, they are organisms etc. I also think it's easier to believe in a peer opposed to a higher power.

Angels from the bible travel like UFO's. To clear up another problem with the way the bible has been rewritten is original texts translated "The Angel spoke inside me" have been changed to "The Angel spoke to me." Based on my experience the texts should be rewritten back to the original because Angels speak through your thoughts and mind and not audibly. 90% of the few who have been blessed enough to be visited by Angels from "the heavens" describe seeing UFO's. I have seen and encountered UFO's first hand but I did not see green aliens or grey aliens what I saw were Angels. Einstein was one of if not the smartest man to ever live. He said UFO's were not beings yet were immortal spirits. The ancients describe UFO's as Angels and immortals yet were not flesh. Sure a civilization could build UFO's and be actual beings yet Angels are spirits/light and not flesh and their "UFO's" or chariots are like the stars in the heavens and not metal machinery. They travel as vehicles of light.

[Edited on 1-6-2004 by Raphael]

Interesting Raphael,
I've never heard of angels travelling in UFOs. Since they are pure spirit I wouldn't think they would need any vehicle. Can you tell me where this is in the Bible?

If you believe the testimony of many abductees, the US Air Force through Linda Moulton Howe, the archeological conclusions of Zecharia Sitchin, and various other researchers, scientists, and military personnel: then Homo sapien life on this planet was jumpstarted by Reptilian-aliens from the Zeta 2 Reticuli System hundreds of thousands of years ago. Contrary to biblical teachings, the purpose behind the creation of humankind was not noble at all, but to provide slave labor to work the mines here.

Regardless, none of this detracts from the idea that a God Realized being initiated The Big Bang billions of years ago. But that being was not the Judeo-Christian god or any other "god" from this world.

The burning question arises�

Was The Original Creator a Zetan-alien or a group thereof?

Of course not!

How do we know that?

Because there is a huge difference between interstellar flight capability and the technology to perform genetic manipulation, versus the ability to manifest BILLIONS OF GALAXIES.

Secondly, if the Zetans had the ability to actually create matter, even on a small scale, then they wouldn't need to abduct many Homo sapiens from this world for dissection, experimentation, slavery, breeding programs, hybrid programs, etc. Nor would they be motivated to continue mutilating cattle here because their biochemistry is similar to that of humankind -- using precision laser instrumentation to remove various organs.

The Zetans could simply manifest the exact humanoid bodies and organs they desired.

As such, their inability to create matter indicates that the Zetans are not spiritually advanced beings. Their unethical treatment of Homo sapiens over a period of many thousands of years also signifies that they are spiritually indifferent, which is another way of saying that they are spiritually primitive.

Furthermore, just because Zetan-aliens orchestrated the emergence of Homo sapien life on this planet, does not make them our spiritual masters. Far from it! It just means that they have advanced physically based technology at their disposal.

Compassion, not intellect and technology, determines the value of any civilization. Ending a corrupt high-tech society can therefore constitute a service to God or The God Force.

If we ignore spiritual principle, we are no better than the scientists (local and alien) that use intelligent beings as laboratory animals.

The Original Creator, who was not around when Homo sapien life emerged here, is not an underachiever or indifferent to defending innocents, as many believe.

He simply has yet to come.


[Edited on 3-6-2004 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by CommonSense
Interesting Raphael,
I've never heard of angels travelling in UFOs. Since they are pure spirit I wouldn't think they would need any vehicle. Can you tell me where this is in the Bible?

Exodus:16:10 And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud.

Exodus:24:18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights

Exodus:34:5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord

Psalms:68:34 Ascribe ye strength unto God: his excellency is over Israel, and his strength is in the clouds.

Psalms:78:23 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven, 24 And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven. 25 Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.

Psalms:104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind

Isaiah:60:8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows

Samuel:22:10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet. 11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.

Zechariah:5:1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. 2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

Matthew:2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was

Acts:10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

Acts:10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

I could go on and on with scripture explaining UFO's existence with Angels but my first hand experience with my visit from Raphael and 3 UFO's is not a made up story. I encourage you to go to the page before this and read my long post about my UFO/Angel experience which brought me to God.


[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Raphael]

Raphael: Those excerpts there are talking about visions had by particular people, not actual events in history. Please read the rest of the chapter to get some background on the event before posting it here. People have been saying that Ezekial saw UFO's for a long time, and it was nothing but a vision, which is described in VERY FINITE DETAIL in later chapters.

And another question for everyone: What does God need with a Starship? Captian Kirk said that in a Star Trek episode, and I found it quite applicable here as well.

Originally posted by TheBorg
Raphael: Those excerpts there are talking about visions had by particular people, not actual events in history. Please read the rest of the chapter to get some background on the event before posting it here. People have been saying that Ezekial saw UFO's for a long time, and it was nothing but a vision, which is described in VERY FINITE DETAIL in later chapters.

And another question for everyone: What does God need with a Starship? Captian Kirk said that in a Star Trek episode, and I found it quite applicable here as well.

Angels do not travel in starships for their chariots are like the stars in the sky.

You can believe whatever you wish but one day the Angels will be revealed and their presence will be known to all that exist on earth. I have been with the Angels and I have seen their chariots and they come from the heavens in the sky and although you don't believe me you surely will on the day of our Lord's return because everything I have said will be undeniable truth. You can believe whatever interpretation you choose but I have been with them and I have seen with my own eyes. Do you read hebrew? Can you read the Torah? I can and your english translated versions have been augmented and redefined for centuries. Many words have been changed and now have lost their true meaning. I have been with the Angels and I have seen the truth in which my ancestors spoke. I am not here to strike up arguments on the topic but I plead for you to hear me out and not be so quick to discredit because I have seen with my own eyes and I will forever know of their true existence.
There are many false prophets and false preachers who teach falsely the word of God. You cannot believe all that is spoken to you and I encourage you to rebuke and try and dicredit but for on that day when the Angels descend from heaven you will witness what I have said and the truth shall be known. Continue to look up to the sky in prayer for the Angels can hear you. Tell them how you feel and don't be a stranger even when you cannot see them. They are always there and always listening. The ancient hebrews refered to the Angels as "The Watchers" and thats what they are. The Angels watch over us from the heavens and they travel in their chariots of light.

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"My constellation (is like an animal which) reclines in its den in heaven; some men call me the Great Bear, but others the Offspring of a Dragon. Moreover, a smaller constellation accompanies my constellation, for the high position and throne of my father is always in the sky. So do not ask me so many things, Solomon, for eventually your kingdom will be divided. This glory of yours is temporary. You have us to torture for a little while; then we shall disperse among human beings again with the result that we shall be worshiped as gods because men do not know the names of the angels who rule over us."
-TSol 5:4-5


[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Raphael]

Raphael,

I've looked over your references and I really don't see anything that comes close to a biblical reference to angels traveling in UFOs. The only thing that may come remotely close is Acts 10:11. My translation (NAB version) is "He saw heaven opened and something resembling a large sheet coming down, lowered to the ground by its four corners." This doesn't talk of angels and is a real stretch to get to a UFO.

By saying that angels need UFOs to travel, aren't we attempting to limit the power of God? I don't think I want to take that position.

CS

You are assuming UFO's that I refer to are big metal discs flying around. This is NOT what I saw. What I saw was like the stars in the sky and nothing like your common "UFO"

I refer to them as a UFO because they were in fact unidentifiable object that flew in the sky. Yet these were like the stars in the heavens.

Again you don't have to believe me and actually I would expect people to question. The fact is I saw and I witnessed myself and I will not be fooled when the day of my Lord's returning because many will worship the flying discs in the sky which are false God's. I have been with them and I will not be fooled by these false God's. What I witnessed were spirit's of light. Not spirits of mechanical UFO space ships.

[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Raphael]

Raphael,
I'm not attacking, just trying to understand more thoroughly. Tell me more about the nature of their crafts. My personal position is that angels need nothing for travel.
CS

I am not sure if I would call them crafts. What I saw was literally like the stars fall from the sky. These three lights in which I saw move in the sky were small lights which came to me in the daytime. The only description I can give is that they were like stars that moved. Even when they got closer and hovered above me I did not see "crafts" or disks forming a starship. All I saw was light. When the Angel entered my room from the sky it was a ball of light the size of a softball and it flew over me in my bed at a slow rate of speed. In the sky it moved as fast as it's choosing. It was able to stop on a dime. My memories are still coming back to me slowly of this event. I believe the softball sized light was more in the shape of an hourglass. When it passed over me it manifested itself into an Angel standing in front of me. The Angel did have wings and was the most beautiful white wings. This Angel was the most beautiful and graceful thing I have ever seen.
I was raised Jewish but I am now forced to believe in Jesus. I was praying to die on this day and I cried out to God. I then cried out to Jesus and it was at that moment the Angels came to me from the sky.


[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Raphael]

Actually, God IS an alien...ha!...because he's not like us! Far superior...but closer to the point...it's easier for me to believe in God, although I have my own ideas about UFO's and aliens, fallen angels, etc. And actually, it has nothing to do with spirituality for me...it has more to do with an internally-controlled, common-sensical thought process...if that makes sense.

Originally posted by junknewsie
...... to do with spirituality for me...it has more to do with an internally-controlled, common-sensical thought process...if that makes sense.

Of course it makes sense. Regardless of what external factors may exist, I think that we both rely upon the infused knowledge of God, that sense deep within - of right and wrong - why we choose not to kill while other choose to kill.

I just want to add one more thing which just dawned on me for the first time. Abraham said The Lord our God is one. When I saw the light in the sky it was one light which then became three lights. Do you think it is possible that God is God, Jesus is God, The Angels are God etc.. ? Maybe they are all God and not seperate entities? Maybe God can manifest him/herself is more then one manifestation at the same time? I am not an expert on Christianity so a little help or more oppinions on this would be of great help.

No no, There is God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. One God in three persons. All else, the angels, the saints and any of God's other creations are subserviant to God. Our purpose is to know Him, love Him and serve Him. If we do that, the world would change in the amount of time it takes to take in your next breath. Think of it, that all it takes! It's up to each and everyone of us! Yes, we can change the world, but we must help our brother and sisters.
CS

Raphael: You ask me to take your word on everything, and to not immediately discredit you, and yet the first thing you do is to immediately try to discredit everything we mention from the Bible by saying that out versions are not exact. What's to say that your Hebrew Version hasn't been tampered with over time? I admit, it would be very interesting to see the ACTUAL differences between the two languages, but I don't think it would change anything.

You also claim to believe in a God, and yet pray to Angels. Doesn't that strike anyone as funny? First Commandment, "Thou Shalt have no other Gods before me."

Also, you give me the impression that you think you're a prophet. While I can't say anything for sure, I'm still waiting on a prophecy. If you were talking about the fact that God's gonna come back, well, we all believe that, so there's not a thing new there. I need something more tangible than what's been said so far to take you on your word. I await your response.

I do not claim to be a prophet nor an expert on theology. I would consider myself a prophet if I could actually understand what happened to me and if I actually understood what I said and what was said to me. I spoke in hebrew things of which I can't remember and which did not come from myself although I said them. I cannot translate what I said or better what was said to me because I cannot remember the words. All I remember is I said a few words in a hebrew I am not familiar with. I do not claim the hebrew text as being exact either. The fact is mankind has interpreted and rewritten texts so many times how can we really take the words literally? I am sure the word can bring us in the right direction but it is hard to know for sure what is literal. For example texts have been changed from "The Angel spoke in me" to "The Angel spoke to me." That is a major difference as I explained when I spoke to the Angels it was in my thoughts with visions and an "inner voice". Like memory triggers. For example if you type something in google your search answers will popup for you. I asked the Angel questions and my thoughts popped up with the answers with thoughts and visions. I would have thought it was my imagination until what was said to me is in the bible and I had never picked up a bible at that time in my life. It was not until I began to read the bible that I began to understand my experience was real. The memories of the event in detail did not come to me until the last year or so and continue to come back to me.

One thing that has botherd me is I saw three lights come from one light. I was visited by an Angel Anal, I spoke with Raphael, so who was the thrid light/Angel? I have wanted to know this for so long. Also how can the Angel Michael have the title of "Who is like God" if there is God and the other Angels below him?

How can we explain The Angel Michael "Who is like God"?

The Angel Gabriel the angel of the Power of God?

How can this Angel be God's power yet not be God?

The Angel Raphael "God heals" how can he heal you yet it is God healing you?

What I saw leads me to believe it is all God but maybe I am misguided because I cannot even explain what happened to me but from what I saw I would say God is one and God is all.

The bible teaches there is only one God no others with a capital G or small g only one.

I have always believed the Angels were seperate from God and could only act on God's command yet I am confused with how they can have the titles they have yet be a seperate entity to God.

If the Angels are seperate entities yet can only act with God's command therefore whenever they do something or anything isnt it an act of God? So whatever they do is it not God doing it? So in some respect when an Angel visits you is it not God?


[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Raphael]

They are separate from God in that God created them. They exist, as everything does, at God's pleasure.