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Jehovah's Witnessess, I NEVER thought I would say this

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posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by mellisamouse
 


I just want you to know that the whole "Jesus is God" thing has been proven false in so many ways. In my theological way of thinking we see Jesus as the "God" of the Old Testament who came in the flesh to reveal the "Father", who is the God of both testaments. Now, you might be skiddish about this way of thinking because of the whole "monotheistic" label put on christianity but just read Genesis...

1:26

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”


This is showing more than one God present at creation. If you read in John 1:1-3 you read about how Jesus was the "Word of God" and it makes sense in the fact that Jesus created everything in the Old Testament as the commands start "Then God SAID ......." The speaking of the creation was Jesus creating as the Word of God on behalf of God the Father.

In the Old Testament, Jesus was the God they all knew. Yes, Jehovah is Jesus. Think about it... the WORD speaks through the burning bush to Moses, reveals Himself to prophets, and speaks to Abraham as a High Priest. Plus, the New Testament states that Jesus came in the flesh to REVEAL the Father.... the God working behind the scene... the CEO of creation. I always use the analogy of Jesus being the carpenter (who builds or creates) and God the Father being the architect (the mastermind) behind the creation.

I know I've disagreed with this viewpoint in past threads but it is newly learned and pondered on information and makes more sense than the Trinity or the JW view of Jesus and Jehovah being two different beings. I feel like I found new puzzle pieces that fit where other pieces weren't fitting. That's what I love about my faith and my church. They make you research.

I hope you did some research on my churches because their sites have almost never-ending resources and all of the stuff they provide is completely free. God bless you and good luck on your path to rediscovery..... Oh and watch out for unclean meats. After all, "SWINE" flu is going around.... Peace.


edited to fix bold text.

[edit on 9/22/2009 by Locoman8]




posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 04:55 AM
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Well I have had studies on the bible and want to continue to learn more they are nice people and have given me rides before.Though i stumbled onto JWexposed I don't know if i would become a witness or not they seem good but isn't the foundation suppose to be strong or right i don't know what to do.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 08:10 AM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 
It most definately has not been "proved" wrong, only the minority text was written to strip Jesus of His divinity. The majority text is accurate, our God is in 3 persons yet at the same time is one God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God imprenated Mary when she was a virgin. Jesus at the same time was both 100% man and 100% God at the same time, His father was not Joseph, u could say Joseph was his step father...

Do NOT confuse this woman and state dogmatically that 'it's PROVEN', when that is completely false. You need to read about Origen's cult in Alexandria Egypt who wrote their own version of scripture because they didn't like certian things about the Christian doctrine. It was a cult, a cult that died out reletively soon after the death of Origen.

Satan didn't need to change a great portion of the Word of God to lie to mankind, just a few things here and there and the same goals are accomplished... get man to deny Christ. Same outcome. Remember, rat poison is 99.99% good food and .01% poison.

If anyone would like to know where our different versions, or perversions, of scripture came from today you can U2U me or start a new thread and I'll post there. But don't you for a second tell this woman who is seeking the TRUTH that 'it is proven' when that is most definately not the case.






posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by SimpleKnowledge
 
The JWs clain you need their magazine and church leaders to interpret the Word of God. God's word IS the final authority, and God's word is easily understood ALONE.

Not to mention they never tell the honestly Gd seeking JW member that they have made HUNDREDS of failed prophecies in their history. Read: false prophets.

Their founder was an Illuminati. If you don't believe me, look at the man's gravestone. God's Word has never had a failed prophecy, God is perfect.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by SimpleKnowledge
 
The JWs clain you need their magazine and church leaders to interpret the Word of God. God's word IS the final authority, and God's word is easily understood ALONE.

Not to mention they never tell the honestly Gd seeking JW member that they have made HUNDREDS of failed prophecies in their history. Read: false prophets.

Their founder was an Illuminati. If you don't believe me, look at the man's gravestone. God's Word has never had a failed prophecy, God is perfect.




that was another stumling block for me.....it says right in the bible not to add or take away from the bible, yet the have libraries full of books where they write these rules, and then take scriptures from here and there out of context to "fit" their rules.....

if they had the "truth" like they think, then why are they using more than just the bible?

Also, the failed prophecy thing....that was kind of creepy, like they were allways waiting for what they called the "wordly" people to all be wiped out and die....like they thrived on that. Kinda creepy and sad. Instead of trying to see the good in people who didn't agree, it felt like they had this strange high waiting for them all to die.....


[edit on 22-9-2009 by mellisamouse]



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
JW's deny Jesus is God in the flesh because in their theology Jesus was the first born of God. God created Jesus before all other things, including the universe and earth. In his bodily form he is known as Jesus but prior to that he was known as Michael the arch angel. Yet within the very pages of the JW's own bible, the New World Translation (of which I have) we read this from John 20.


and john 20 is the only passage you can hang on to.

meanwhile the bible DOES say that jesus was the firstborn, and that god used him to create.

so make your claims all you want. the bible disagrees.

plenty of threads where this subject has be hashed to death



You're referring to Colossians 1:15

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

JW's and perhaps you also view this passage to mean that Jesus is the "firstborn" of God thus there was a time when Jesus did not exist but this is an erroneous method of interpretation for we can see that as we continue to read the passage it states that Jesus is not only before all creation but that He created all things.

So how is it, in the JW interpretation, that Jesus is the "firstborn" of creation yet nothing was created without Him? The problem arises from the word "firstborn" and placing upon it the literal meaning of a first born being yet the meaning within this context is of preeminence" and not one of preexistence for Christ has always been, He is eternal.

John 1:1-3

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

So John 20 is not the only passage I can "hang on to" because Scripture as a whole declares that Jesus is God in the flesh.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by mellisamouse
 
You have it girl, all a layman man/woman needs to grow in his or her relationship to Christ is the Word of God. That's it.

"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word of God." - Jesus

And in the OT if a so-called "prophet" was even wrong ONCE he was to be stoned to death. God demands perfection from His prophets.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by mellisamouse
 
I didn't know they were eagerly waiting for the "worldly" people to die. That's nuts. Christ said he came to this world to lead the sinner to repentance not for the righteous.

They should show the sinners the same LOVE that Christ shwed them, God is Love, and that is EXACTLY what this world needs. His love.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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get your facts straight people. nothing gets under my skin more than lying.


Originally posted by NOTurTypical
And realize this, the founder of the JW was an Illuminati.


no proof. all symbols seen in eariler publications were common amoung many churchs and were not exclusively used by any of the secret societies.

russell himself denied any association with those groups.

it should also be noted that i have yet to find any websites that provide proof. this claim is literally speculative conjecture.


Originally posted by Maddogkull
They don’t believe in blood transfusions. So if there kid was dying they would rather them die then to get help and live. Disgusting if you ask me. They believe in a book that there not even sure if its real, compared to helping there sick children that could die.


the command to refuse blood is straight from the bible, so sorry, accept blood, you go against the bible, JW or not.

besides the fact that if you actually research bloodless medicine, you'll find that survival rates are much higher since you dont have to deal with complications related to transfusions

"Bloodless medicine appeals to many doctors because it carries low risk of post-operative infection when compared with procedures requiring blood transfusion"

en.wikipedia.org...


Originally posted by mellisamouse
yeah, um....why on earth would I come on here, to a bunch of strangers to not tell the truth, there is nothing to hide on here.....


there are plenty of reasons.

but one thing i know for sure is that people often dont take responsibility for thier own lives. they like to blame others when things go wrong.


I find nothing wrong with drinking in moderation, but back then I was the most by the book person you could meet, I wouldn't touch a drop of alcohol back in those days...


which "book" are you talking about?

the JW org never said that you cant drink in moderation. the watchtowers only advise to be careful when conduct could become "lewd" or when drinking in front of someone who may have a problem with drinking.


You sound like a JW to me, that same harsh critical judgmental vibe, not the loving vibe I have been getting from these people who speak about Jesus being God in the flesh etc...


no im not a JW.

i am however a realist and your claims border slander. your saying that these people kicked you out with no cause and im saying that likely you arent telling us the cause.

if the answer to your problem is to blame someone else for it, then it possible your problem is much deeper.

but im also not going to just sit here while people trade lies about a people i have a very deep respect for.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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Hey miriam do you know any evidence of christianit?? Can you post in the

Evidence of the bible thread
www.belowtopsecret.com...



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 
I was not lying Miriam, those are STRONG words to use when you don't even know me. This is what ALL converted Illuminati have said about him. Why would I lie? I'm all about telling the truth as any Christian should.

I really don't appreciate you throwing that word around, I would never do that to you.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
get your facts straight people. nothing gets under my skin more than lying.





the command to refuse blood is straight from the bible, so sorry, accept blood, you go against the bible, JW or not.



The command from Scripture is to not partake of blood in the sense of ingestion, not transfusion.

You, and the JW's, hold to the acceptance of a blood transfusion as an ingestion of it but that is not what is spoken of in Scripture. The Scriptures reference the eating of blood along with idolatry, fornication and sorcery and in that sense Believers are not to partake of blood.

A life saving blood transfusion though does not treat blood as a food source but rather a life source. There is no idol ceremony within an operating room prior to a blood transfusion is there?

Also, no where does Acts 15:28 and 29 state that ingesting blood makes one lose their salvation, correct? What happens when a JW gets a bloody lip or when they lose a tooth and they ingest blood as a result?

As for the passage in Leviticus again it is unfounded that this means or speaks of a blood transfusion. It specifically speaks of not eating or ingesting blood. Unless you hold to the belief that a blood transfusion is the same as "the soul of the flesh is in the blood"? There is no eating of flesh in order for a life saving blood transfusion to be performed.

Now if someone wishes to refuse a blood transfusion based on their own beliefs that's one thing but to claim that the Scriptures declares people to not do it they then are grossly mistaken.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 05:55 PM
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Wow, they read that as tranfusions???? The Bible clearly says not to 'eat meat with the lifeblood still within it'.

That simply tells man to cook his meat, not eat it raw.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by miriam0566
 
I was not lying Miriam, those are STRONG words to use when you don't even know me. This is what ALL converted Illuminati have said about him. Why would I lie? I'm all about telling the truth as any Christian should.

I really don't appreciate you throwing that word around, I would never do that to you.




oh trust me, i dont throw that word around. in fact, i believe its one of the first times im saying this.

if a person speaks an untruth, it is a lie. whether it is intentional or not.

your very quick to bring out all these accusations about JW's. and ive heard alot of them before, i investigated them and found them all to be lies.

i strongly suggest that you do abit more investigating before making those types of statements.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 
Miriam, NO ONE who is in the Illuminati ADMITS publicly that they are.

I have done the research:

1: False prophets Check
2. Twisting of scripture Check
3. False doctrine Check

Former Illumanists state he was and his gravestone is the Iluminati pyramid.

Heeeloooooo

And you should treat others as you wish to be treated, I would never call you a liar, that's just plain wrong. A "lie" is a WILLFUL distortion of the facts.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 06:24 PM
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Hey Miriam, do a Google search of the 13 Illuminati bloodlines and you tell me if "Russell" is one of them.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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AHEM:::

13 Illuminati Bloodlines

:bnghd:



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by Locoman8

1:26

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”


This is showing more than one God present at creation. If you read in John 1:1-3 you read about how Jesus was the "Word of God" and it makes sense in the fact that Jesus created everything in the Old Testament as the commands start "Then God SAID ......." The speaking of the creation was Jesus creating as the Word of God on behalf of God the Father.



Genesis 1:26 is not easily interpreted so, as with all interpretations, the whole of Scripture needs to be referenced here. First we can look at your interpretation and ask if the Scriptures support “more than one God”?

Isaiah 40:25
25 "To whom then will you liken Me
That I would be his equal?" says the Holy One.

Exodus 8:10
10Then he said, "Tomorrow." So he said, "May it be according to your word, that you may know that there is no one like the LORD our God.

1 Samuel 2:2
2 "There is no one holy like the LORD,
Indeed, there is no one besides You,
Nor is there any rock like our God.

Isaiah 46:5

5 "To whom would you liken Me
And make Me equal and compare Me,
That we would be alike?


There are many more passages along the same line that expresses God is alone, that He alone is God, not God(s). So we can conclude that Gen. 1:26 is highly suspect if meaning to describe there are “gods” involved in the creation. So what is Gen. 1:26 referring to then, who are the “US” and the “OUR”? Well most likely God is expressing Himself to His heavenly court, the angels. Since God is not a physical man we can know that the phrase “in our likeness, in our image” is NOT speaking then of a physical resemblance but rather most likely speaking of a spiritual/moral resemblance. The angels did not create anything but rather they were involved in it, to perhaps sing praise to God for His creative powers.

So where in Scripture can we find support for God speaking with His heavenly court ?

1 Kings 22:19, 20

19 Micaiah said, "Therefore, hear the word of the LORD. I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left. 20"The LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that.

Here we see God conversing with His angelic court. In Job 1:6 we have God and His angels who “present” themselves before Him. So the “US” and the “OUR” being Gods angels or heavenly court fits the context better than to declare that there are more than one god.



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by TangoVooDoo
 
I'm not aware of any Christians who claim there is more than one God.

Are you aware of any? Is there evidence that some believe there is more than one?



posted on Sep, 22 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by TangoVooDoo
 
I'm not aware of any Christians who claim there is more than one God.

Are you aware of any? Is there evidence that some believe there is more than one?



Evangelical Christians? No

There are many beliefs though that proclaim polytheism.



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