Jehovah's Witnessess, I NEVER thought I would say this

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
"A truth presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God... Accept truth wherever you find it, no matter what it contradicts."

Charles Taze Russell, "Zion's Watchtower". July 1879, pp 8, 9



"A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

Jesus Christ, Matthiew 7:18 KJV

WOW, that is soooooo true! What an excellent point!

The only "satanic" thing that bothered me, was there was allways this threat of "the demons will get you if you do this, or don't do that" along with all of these horror stories of course, to freak the wits outta you......and there was allways this "don't tell, it will bring reproach on Jehovah's name" threat, so you were never to admit to anything that wasn't all peachy etc....

Jesus deciples did the opposite, they admitted their flaws and wept and wailed over them.....they never pretended to be perfect, they never said, "conceal all bad things or God will look bad" what a bunch of baloney, God cannot look bad because of the deeds of a human!

Originally posted by mellisamouse
If someone tries to imply God does not love you then THAT is what I mean by spiritual abuse.

you accuse me of spiritual abuse, and yet i never made a comment regarding your relationship with god.

just saying

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
"A truth presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God... Accept truth wherever you find it, no matter what it contradicts."

Charles Taze Russell, "Zion's Watchtower". July 1879, pp 8, 9

i love it when people keyword. its the number one tool of propaganda.

he not saying one should agree with satan.

"A truth presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God..."

if satan says the sky is blue and that is true, then its just as valid as god saying the sky is blue.

the problem is, satan sometimes lies. sometimes he half lies. sometimes he says the truth but tries to provoke feelings therefore you cant trust him

of course thats not why you are presenting this quote is it? you wanted him to look like a satanist dont you?

its like calling a person who votes democrat "light on terrorism", or a person who supports health care reform as "socialist"

[edit on 29-9-2009 by miriam0566]

reply to post by mellisamouse


Wow, no, the Lord most definately doesn't want us to conceal any sin or flaw amonst us. The Holy Spirit convicts us to admit any and all sin and to seek forgiveness from anyone we have sinned against.

I had this happen to me this very week. I had been cleaning my house and was being convicted inside by the Holy Spirit about a very big theft I had committed years ago. I finally submitted and decided I would go to the person I had stolen from and admitted it to them. And let me tell you, it brings such peace to your soul to admit your sins to God at to the people you have sinned against.

Psalm 32 is David's firsthand account of the process he went through to discover the profound joy of experiencing God's mercy and forgiveness:

1. "Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven whose sin is covered."
2. "Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in
whose spirit there is no guile."
3. "When I kept silent, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day
long."
4. "For day and night thy hand ws heavy upon me: my moisture is turned
into the drought of summer. Salah."
5. "I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I net hid. I
said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou
forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Saleh."

Satan wants us to live by fear, God commands us to live by LOVE, for God IS love. Satan wants us to hide our sins against eachother, wants us to hide them in our hearts and not tell eachother when we fail and wrong them, and most definately not tell God. Without forgiveness of sin we cannot have fellowship with God. ANYONE who encourages you to hide you sins to protect ANYTHING WHATSOEVER is acting in the spirit of Satan, most definately not God.

When we make mistakes we need to tell God, lay those sins at the cross, and tell the person we sinned against, to seek forgiveness from God as well as the person we comitted the sin against. What great joy there is to humble oneself and admit when we fall short. It truly brings peace to our souls.

Another powerful verse dealing with hidden sin is 1 John 1:5-9:

5. "This then is the message we have heard of Him, and declare unto you,
that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all."
6. "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness,
we LIE, and do not the truth."
7. "But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we ave fellowship one
with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son clenseth us
from all sin."
8 "If we say that we have no sin, we decieve ourselves, and the truth is
NOT in us."
9. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness."
10. "If we say that e have not sinned we make Him a liar, and His Word is
NOT in us."

(Bold text I added)

So you plainly see that if a man sins against another and tried to hide it from themselves, from that person, and from God that attitude is of the father of lies; Satan himself, and not from God.

reply to post by miriam0566


She never claimed you did Miriam, she said those within the JW's did.

reply to post by miriam0566


Miriam, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the father of lies to tell a truth. His entire plan is to lie, kill, and destroy, and for ANYONE to claim Satan says some truth has a perverted mind and spirit.

Name me ONE SINGLE instance where Satan tells a truth within the Word of God.....

take your time, it's a big Bible.

I do know what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ says about Satan:

John 8:44

44. "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode NOT in the truth.
because there is NO TRUTH in him. When he speaketh a lie
he speaketh of his own: for he is a LIAR, and the father of it."

Ponder that.. "NO truth in him..." Are you implying the Lord Jesus Christ is the one lying here????

Charles Taze Russell thinks Jesus Christ is a liar, we know that for sure by his own words.

(Spelling edit)

[edit on 29-9-2009 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Well, those words are a healing. Thank you for showing me in the bible as well.....

Yeah, I allways saw the deciples as admitting (confessing) thier sins amongst each other, and helping each other to do better etc....

If you hide everyu thing you have done wrong then how are your friends supposed to help you?

If for example, I hid a gambling problem, who is gonna nag me about it and say "Mellisa, you haven't been wasting all of your money on scratch and wins again have you?".......lol, just the fact they asked shows they cared, just the fact they cared helps you want to do better, and YES I know we do these things for our God, and YES I knoe he sees, but having a friend help is great too....

That is a reason something like weight watchers works so well, then you have the support of a group.

(this is just an example I was thinking of personally, lol, hope it makes sense)

With the JW's they tell you to hide everything, because the others might be tempted as well, and they keep showing the scripture about the leven etc, if anyone else knew I was buying scratch and wins, well, the rest of them might go crazy for scratch and wins too...........and believe me, carry the burden of everything anyone ELSE may have done "wrong" too, was a hard burden to bare...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by miriam0566

 

She never claimed you did Miriam, she said those within the JW's did.

actually she did

Originally posted by mellisamouse
I have nothing to learn from someone being so predjudiced against me. After all this was supposed to be a thread about me being able to forgie the JW's for the exact predgudice....I still forgie them, but it is like she is trying to take that away from me and stir the pot. I need healing, not a scraping of the old wounds by someone new.

Spiritual abuse is just as damaging as any other abuse.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Miriam, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the father of lies to tell a truth. His entire plan is to lie, kill, and destroy, and for ANYONE to claim Satan says some truth has a perverted mind and spirit.

Name me ONE SINGLE instance where Satan tells a truth within the Word of God.....

take your time, it's a big Bible.

satan is fully capable of telling the truth, if it suits his ends.

2 cor 11:[13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

even an amateur con man will sometimes use truth to gain trust before using a lie to serve his means.

why would satan be any different?

btw the way, there are many times in the bible where satan uses truth, and then twists it to serve his means.

satan said to eve that her eyes would be opened, and in fact they were. but satan didnt explain to her in what way.

gen 3:[5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

[7] And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

when saul consulted a medium to communicate with samuel, what "samuel" said to him was partly true and did happen

1 sam 28:[17] And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
[18] Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
[19] Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.

didnt demons cry out truth regarding paul?

acts 16:[16] And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
[17] The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
[18] And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

satan and his demons are very capable of telling the truth, but its usually followed by a lie or a trap

reply to post by mellisamouse


You're right, it helps a great deal to be honest with one another about our faults and our true nature, it helps a GREAT deal to be accountable to those around us who care about or spiritual welfare.

If we hide our faults from eachother or God then we will be just like David before he confessed, it will eat away at us and rob us of fellowship with God.

reply to post by miriam0566
I stand corrected then, i apologize. Will you forgive me?

reply to post by miriam0566


No, no, don't for a second confuse a HALF-truth with a Truth, that's a logical fallacy. ANY half-truth when spoken with the intent to deceive is still a LIE Miriam.

One can be completely silent and still decieve someone. Christ said "Let your Yes be Yes and your No be No, anything more than that is of the Devil."

Jesus Christ says in plain text there is "NO TRUTH" within Satan, and you still want us to believe the Lord was lying when he said this??

God forbid. What blasphemy.

(edited for spelling)

[edit on 29-9-2009 by NOTurTypical]

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by miriam0566

 

I stand corrected then, i apologize. Will you forgive me?

i really am not emotionally attached to this thread. though i may not sound it, im trying to be as logical as possible

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Jesus Christ says in plain text there is "NO TRUTH" within Satan, and you still want us to believe the Lord was lying when he said this??

God forbid. What blasphemy.

half truths only work if they have some truth.

and yes you are taking jesus' words to an extreme literal end. satan deceives, its what he does. its all he does.

but to effectively deceive someone, sometimes you have to use truth.

yes, a half truth is in the end a lie, but its called a half truth for a reason.

in other words, your argument is stray man.

your taking a quote and claiming that russell is a satanist when that really not what the quote is saying.

what he's saying is that truth is truth no matter who is saying it.

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by miriam0566

 

I stand corrected then, i apologize. Will you forgive me?

i really am not emotionally attached to this thread. though i may not sound it, im trying to be as logical as possible

Okay, is that a Yes or No? I'm confused..

reply to post by miriam0566
We are not disagreeing that a truth is a truth no matter whom is saying it. That is correct, however, you admit that Satan does in fact tell "half-truths", but anyone who has taken debate knows a "half-truth" is a logical fallacy, and a deception. It doesn't matter is Satan says something that is 99% truth, if it's not a complete truth, it is a deception.

And of course I take the Lord's words like that, He is incapible of a lie, and He plainly states there is NO TRUTH in the Devil, he is the father of lies. So CTR is completely wrong when he makes the assumption that Satan is capible of a "truth", he is not, he is a liar just like the Lord states.

CTR is a deciever just like his father is.... And when people realize that he has said lies they should flee from all his teachings right there on the spot, follow Jesus Christ, He has never told a lie or "half-truth". Unlike CTR.

Some here have questioned my assertion of the Watchtower's failed prophecies, (read: False Prophets)

Exhibit A:

100 years of failed Watchtower Prophecies

As an Illistration of telling 99% truth 1% lie is still 100% lie technically...

my ex goe to Montreal,=true
He goes here=true
he eats a burger=true
he visits friend A+B+C= true.....

He forgets to mention he is there the enitre time with another woman after confronted, = it ALL being a big huge lie....the whole trip, the other woman found out about my son and I through picturesd on his computer, and then showed me all of her pictures with him for the last year and a half...

So actually the whole last year and a half until I found out was pretty much 100% a lie when I was missing just 1% of the information.

At least someone gets it.....



Not only is a "half-truth" a fallacy of logic, it is still a LIE. Even a truth meant to decieve someone is still deception and from the Devil.

CTR was a charlitan, a false prophet, a drunkard, and a member of the Russel bloodline of the Illuminati.

Follow him if you want, for me, I'll follow Jesus Christ, OUR only Lord and Savior.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I just wish we could give starts on BTS. I would give a ton by now.