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Jehovah's Witnessess, I NEVER thought I would say this

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posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 03:58 PM
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but....

I am realizing, that JUST as there are disinfo people on HERE, and all over the net, there were many disinfo agents in that organization....


There were MANY horrible people, spreading horrible lies and displaying aweful conduct, MANY, MANY, MANY, wolves in sheeps clothing....... BUT I realize I cannot judge the organization by it's disinfo agents.


I can only look at the core beliefs.....well....really..... I can't find any thing WRONG with the core beliefs, just some of the peoples attitudes towards them,

SO, I must say, I appologise for taking out on the ORGANIZATION, what was really just many INDIVIDUALS...

I realaize I will lose many "friends" and much respect over this, but I think it is the truth....

If anyone can bring anything to my attention that it IS more than just individuals, please bring it to my attention.




posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 04:20 PM
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Sister I would think it best to tell us what happen. I do believe the core belief of JW are good. They believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Yet they don't believe in hell. And I believe they say Michael the Archangel is Jesus himself, which is wrong. But yes I think it best to give us understand why you think some of them are wolves in sheep cloths



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by slymattb
 


I could write a book on it.....I married one who was verbally and physically abusive, who then cheated, and I was the one who was looked down at for wanting out or wanting help....

The elders kids were all being cronically drunk (underage) and according to them you would be held accountable for not telling something like that, but of course 20 against one, they turned it around on me and kicked ME out....

So I have come to the conclusion to forgive, and realize it could have been a major problen in that particular congregation, not neccessarily the entire organisation..



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 03:23 AM
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Wow Sorry sister to hear that from you. To honest you will find shut evil in all churches and type of religions. Remember the bible teaches that even the devil goes to church. I knew a stripper once who went to a morman church and they told her she could not come to there church unless she quit her job. The Job was only way to take care of her kids. Remember people go to church to feel they're doing good but when things get hard people don't stand strong. It was most like better for you to pray and find a new church. I hope one day that maybe I find a church that make me feel at home. Churches scare me in a way because I know everthing that can happen in one and I mean the people.



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by mellisamouse
 


I urge you to research the United Church of God or the Living Church of God. Many of the same beliefs such as:

-when you die, you stay dead until the resurrection (no separation of body and soul).

-hell is the literal "Lake of Fire" in which when one recieves this punishment, they simply die, not suffer for eternity.

-no celebration of pagan holidays (christmas, easter, etc).

-Unitarian, not trinitarian... Jesus and God are two separate entities working for the same cause. The Holy Spirit is a power, not a god.

-we believe in a 1000 year kingdom on earth led by Christ and His saints.

-We believe in the resurrection of Judgement which is not an automatic sentence to hell. It is a time of learning.


That's just some of what we agree on. Some other interesting things about the UCG and LCG are as follows... and are biblically sound...

-We celebrate the Holy Days outlined in Leviticus 23 due to the fact Jesus, the apostles and the first century church all celebrated them. There are new meanings for christians.

-We honor the 7th day sabbath due to the same reason as above as well as the fact it's part of the Ten Commandments... which Jesus taught to obey...

-Our church welcomes anyone who wants to come and the people of this church are very serious about God and honoring the laws of God. No known cases of sexual immorality, abuse, or false witnessing. We are strict on the ten commandments.

I urge you to research these churches and sit in on a sabbath or holy day service in the city nearest you. God bless you.



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by mellisamouse
I married one who was verbally and physically abusive, who then cheated, and I was the one who was looked down at for wanting out or wanting help....

The elders kids were all being cronically drunk (underage) and according to them you would be held accountable for not telling something like that, but of course 20 against one, they turned it around on me and kicked ME out....


why would they do that? that makes no sense.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 01:08 AM
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I have no idea what went wrong with your personal life and perhaps airing it out in a forum such as this is not the first nor best thing to do right now but given that you're asking for differences between JW teachings and Scripture I hope to highlight a few.

First, do you believe Jesus to be God in the flesh or as they teach Michael the Archangel?

Secondly, according to JW teachings how is one saved? Does that line up with Scripture?

Hope to hear back from you soon,



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 02:58 AM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 


Thank you, the sounds cool.


Not being able to find a church that follows the bible, especially trying to understand the sabbath etc has been one of my biggest stumbling blocks.....

Jesus said that he was there to fulfill the law and not do away with it, yet I wanted to understand things like what foods etc, and all the tiny things, and if one of the ten commandments was to honor the sabbath, why weren't THEY etc....

I will be looking into this right away. I guess I needed some trials and learning before I would even be open to it before...I didn't have the bible knowlege, so hopefully this will be the missing link that has held me back rom religion entirley.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 03:00 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by mellisamouse
I married one who was verbally and physically abusive, who then cheated, and I was the one who was looked down at for wanting out or wanting help....

The elders kids were all being cronically drunk (underage) and according to them you would be held accountable for not telling something like that, but of course 20 against one, they turned it around on me and kicked ME out....


why would they do that? that makes no sense.


I KNOW! But they believe at the mouth of 2 or more witnesses (all the underage kids sticking togehter against me) a matter will be established...I also prayed to God, that if this wasn't the place were I could best do his will, then to show me somehow because I was sooooo stuck.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 03:03 AM
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reply to post by TangoVooDoo
 


Inspite of their constant bible study, and mine, I was still not clear in my heart on these subjects.....I am in need of clarity, but I do feel it is on the way.

As I said in a previous post, mabey I needed some trials to learn enough to even be entirley open, as I was a bit of a pig .ed know-it-all back in my early 20's when I first discovered the bible...

I think I may have been somewhat humbled since then... ( I hope, lol)



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by mellisamouse
I KNOW! But they believe at the mouth of 2 or more witnesses (all the underage kids sticking togehter against me) a matter will be established...I also prayed to God, that if this wasn't the place were I could best do his will, then to show me somehow because I was sooooo stuck.


i wasnt agreeing with you.

your claim LITERALLY makes no sense. They cant "kick" you out without biblical reason to do so which basically means you are leaving our big chunks of the story.

but after reading some of you later posts, im beginning to see more



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by mellisamouse
I KNOW! But they believe at the mouth of 2 or more witnesses (all the underage kids sticking togehter against me) a matter will be established...I also prayed to God, that if this wasn't the place were I could best do his will, then to show me somehow because I was sooooo stuck.


i wasnt agreeing with you.

your claim LITERALLY makes no sense. They cant "kick" you out without biblical reason to do so which basically means you are leaving our big chunks of the story.

but after reading some of you later posts, im beginning to see more


Oh, I see, sorry for the misunderstanding, basically the kids banned together and lied and said I was the drunk, etc, and I think they added a few other things I hadn't done, and since I refused to "admit" to things I know I hadn't done, I looked like the liar, not all of their kids...



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by mellisamouse
Oh, I see, sorry for the misunderstanding, basically the kids banned together and lied and said I was the drunk, etc, and I think they added a few other things I hadn't done, and since I refused to "admit" to things I know I hadn't done, I looked like the liar, not all of their kids...


lol so, noone else in the congregation sees you drunk, but a few kids ban together and get you kicked out.

im sorry but that doesnt sound like the truth. least to me.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by mellisamouse
reply to post by TangoVooDoo
 


Inspite of their constant bible study, and mine, I was still not clear in my heart on these subjects.....I am in need of clarity, but I do feel it is on the way.

As I said in a previous post, mabey I needed some trials to learn enough to even be entirley open, as I was a bit of a pig .ed know-it-all back in my early 20's when I first discovered the bible...

I think I may have been somewhat humbled since then... ( I hope, lol)


Hello mellisamouse,

I am sorry you're going through this at the moment but tough times are there for a reason. In Scripture the Lord is seen as a Silversmith, the reason being that a silversmith knows when the silver is ready because he can see his reflection in it....after all the impurities have been burned away. What happens now can only be viewed with a full perspective as we look back at it and we then say, "Now I understand why that happened".

Now in regards to you and the Lord, I personally do not believe that the JW's teach any Truth. Their system of theology, their world view is built upon lies thus everything built upon that foundation afterward is false and cannot stand. All world beliefs that deny Jesus is God Incarnate (God in the flesh) and seek to use Scripture in that denial are false. In fact all cults deny this one very important tenet of Scripture, that Jesus is God come in the flesh.

In the JW theology Michael the archangel and Jesus are one in the same and one the main verses they use in this is 1 Thessalonians 4:16

"For the lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God...."

Their interpretation and reasoning of this passage is as such; if there is only one archangel, that being Michael, and the Lord is said to descend with the shout of an "arch angel" then surely Michael is Jesus. This faulty interpretation though MUST be carried out in the remaining passage. In other words if you interpret the first part of that passage that way then you must do so with the rest also but in doing that they (JW's) have a problem for if they believe that because Jesus descends with a shout, voice or command of an arch angel hence He must be Michael the arch angel then Jesus must also be a "trumpet" since He also descends with the "sound of the trumpet of God". This though would be ridiculous because we know these words to be descriptive of Jesus and an event. Trumpets were used to herald a message, angels are messengers of God so 1 Thess. 4:16 is descriptive of what Jesus and His descending will be like or compared to. It is not stating that He Himself is THE angel or THE trumpet.

JW's deny Jesus is God in the flesh because in their theology Jesus was the first born of God. God created Jesus before all other things, including the universe and earth. In his bodily form he is known as Jesus but prior to that he was known as Michael the arch angel. Yet within the very pages of the JW's own bible, the New World Translation (of which I have) we read this from John 20.

27 Next he said to Thomas: “Put your finger here, and see my hands, and take your hand and stick it into my side, and stop being unbelieving but become believing.” 28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe.”

Thomas, a devout Jew, calls Jesus his "Lord" and his "God". Thomas worshiped Jesus as God in the flesh and being a devout Jew would not call just anyone "Lord and God". The JW's claim that Thomas in his excitement blurted out a phrase similar to what we may say today, such as, "Oh my God!" Yet that's ridiculous because that phrase would have been considered blasphemy. Also notice that Jesus did not correct Thomas and state, "Thomas,

[edit on 21-9-2009 by TangoVooDoo]



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
JW's deny Jesus is God in the flesh because in their theology Jesus was the first born of God. God created Jesus before all other things, including the universe and earth. In his bodily form he is known as Jesus but prior to that he was known as Michael the arch angel. Yet within the very pages of the JW's own bible, the New World Translation (of which I have) we read this from John 20.


and john 20 is the only passage you can hang on to.

meanwhile the bible DOES say that jesus was the firstborn, and that god used him to create.

so make your claims all you want. the bible disagrees.

plenty of threads where this subject has be hashed to death



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
JW's deny Jesus is God in the flesh because in their theology Jesus was the first born of God. God created Jesus before all other things, including the universe and earth. In his bodily form he is known as Jesus but prior to that he was known as Michael the arch angel. Yet within the very pages of the JW's own bible, the New World Translation (of which I have) we read this from John 20.


and john 20 is the only passage you can hang on to.

meanwhile the bible DOES say that jesus was the firstborn, and that god used him to create.

so make your claims all you want. the bible disagrees.

plenty of threads where this subject has be hashed to death


Incorrect. Scripture reveals plenty more and I shall deal with that later BUT this is not about you is it?

I can demonstrate through reason and Scripture where the JW theology is completely false and illogical, using their own NWT and if you care to engage me in that then please do so with something more than, "The Bible disagrees with you so there!"

Demonstrate to me using sound logic and Scripture how my interpretation is incorrect.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
Demonstrate to me using sound logic and Scripture how my interpretation is incorrect.


frankly, im too sick and tired (literally) to be do that again, and again.... and again.

you want to start a thread, go right a.. im going to be copying alot from threads where i wrote exhaustively about the subject.

frankly im just tired of arguing with the wall on this one.

if god was "greater" than jesus,
gods knows everything, jesus doesnt
god is prayed to by jesus,
god is worshipped by jesus,
god talked to jesus,
god sent jesus,
if god, in nearly every context of scripture is separate and superior to jesus, mean to you that god IS jesus, then im sorry but that is a gigantic leap of logic.

i could quote scriptures, but i dont feel like copying half the bible. sorry



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by mellisamouse
 
Google any number of websites that explain the hereses of the JW cult, there are a multitude. And realize this, the founder of the JW was an Illuminati.

That should be enough right there for you to have grave concerns.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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Jehovah Witnesses’ are ignorant fools. They don’t believe in blood transfusions. So if there kid was dying they would rather them die then to get help and live. Disgusting if you ask me. They believe in a book that there not even sure if its real, compared to helping there sick children that could die. If you ask me there as worse as scientology (no offense intended to scientologists on here)



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by mellisamouse
Oh, I see, sorry for the misunderstanding, basically the kids banned together and lied and said I was the drunk, etc, and I think they added a few other things I hadn't done, and since I refused to "admit" to things I know I hadn't done, I looked like the liar, not all of their kids...


lol so, noone else in the congregation sees you drunk, but a few kids ban together and get you kicked out.

im sorry but that doesnt sound like the truth. least to me.



yeah, um....why on earth would I come on here, to a bunch of strangers to not tell the truth, there is nothing to hide on here.....

Also, no one else, beside their accomplices (many baptised witnesses who were worried more about peer pressure than doing what was right) saw all these minors drinking.......it wasn't just a one time thing, it was on a regular basis, and I gave them many chances individually, and then basically they just stopped inviting me to anywhere that I might see something to be concerned about etc.......... I find nothing wrong with drinking in moderation, but back then I was the most by the book person you could meet, I wouldn't touch a drop of alcohol back in those days...

You sound like a JW to me, that same harsh critical judgmental vibe, not the loving vibe I have been getting from these people who speak about Jesus being God in the flesh etc...it makes sense him seeing exactly how it felt to be us, to understand us more etc too actually... in the "Jesus is the only way" thread I learned a LOT today and have been awakening to a whole world of new possibilities and healing already.....



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