Coast Guard fires on suspicious boat on Potomac River in Washington: CNN

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by RoofMonkey

You always run exercises. Unless you are involved in a ceremony, an actual mission or some sort of formation operation... (which by the way, has it's own exercise number)

Do you really believe that the Coast Guard would run a planned exercise during a memorial service in which the President of the United States was participating? The secret service would never have allowed this.

The secret "service" have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Since it was UNRELATED to their operation.

Originally posted by RoofMonkey

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by RoofMonkey

You always run exercises. Unless you are involved in a ceremony, an actual mission or some sort of formation operation... (which by the way, has it's own exercise number)

Do you really believe that the Coast Guard would run a planned exercise during a memorial service in which the President of the United States was participating? The secret service would never have allowed this.

The secret "service" have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Since it was UNRELATED to their operation.

Do you realize that where this occured was 1/2 mile from where Obama was speaking or whatever he was doing? Do you really think that they would view this as "unrelated to their operation"? Do you really think they would have allowed an exercise 1/2 mile from Obama?



[edit on 14/9/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

...

Do you realize that where this occured was 1/2 mile from where Obama was speaking or whatever he was doing? Do you really think that they would view this as "unrelated to their operation"?

Do you really think they would have allowed an exercise 1/2 mile from Obama?

Yes, I do.

"Planned" has a lot of connotations. As an example: A Z1-ET exercise appeared in USN trainings manual for years, you did it every single time you got underway. Know what it was? "Securing for Sea." This oddity of an exercise involved stowing gear that could fly/flop about due to ship movement, and going around to each peice of electronic equipment that had stow releases and ensuring that it was ready for operation. (roll stabilization locks etc) But it was an exercise, and was recorded as such in the ships training logs.

There are numerous drills and events like this that occur on a regular basis in both the USN and USCG.

An Interdiction drill run over an RT circuit is one such drill. During work-ups, one ship would do the query response drill over a comm circuit and another would grade them... or a CSTT member on the same channel somewhere else on the ship would grade them. This happens all the time. I have even seen ships running an in house drill accidentally have the internal comm channel punched into a radio, and the whole sequence broadcast to the task group. Imagine their embarassment when they found out that they had just announced an inbound anti ship missile to all the ships in formation that actually wasn't there. (The AAW coordinator was not happy with them)

This brings up the subject of coordination. That ship made an error in using a comm circuit designated for coordination. Other commands were not involved, and should have been notified in the exercise planning message for that day.

What the USCG was doing was USCG related, involved no other outside agencies, and was likely run on a USCG maintined comm circuit as part of their normal operations.

I'm not party to the actual events, but just because some idiot decides that every thing they hear on the radio is real and jumps to conclusions with a news story that is not news I'm not going to condemn the USCG. They were doing what I would expect them to do. Staying focused on the skill needed to do a proper query.




[edit on 14-9-2009 by RoofMonkey]

reply to post by RoofMonkey


I agree with the point of your training theory and believe that for 99% of the events that occur by the USCG follow this theory. However, one varible involved on that day would make a training exercise not only foolish but dangerous.

The variable >> It involved the prez. Not the sec of state, not the congressman from NC or even the vice prez, the prez. That variable in of itself means that the SS HAS to be notified. If they don't know a drill is going on and something looks dangerous to the prez, someone will get shot and killed. For that reason, NO training would be going on. Training does not trump protocol, it tests it. Doesn't rewrite it, confirms it.

Now some will say that you don't do training on 9/11. I am of the school of thought that some training is probably a good idea but not a major, complicated, overly involved training exercise. That is not a good idea for a host of reasons (people already nervous being one).

Again, I agree with your training theory just not in this case. It would serve to be extremely bad timing, poor location, be too complicated and your benefit doesn't warrant the risk.

You guys seem to forget... the Prez had already left, and the event wasn't necessarily in the vicinity of where the ceremony occurred. (based on subsequent reports)

That is unless you count the whole of the Potomac River. and that's a total of about 383 miles.

"There were Coast Guard boats were operating in the vicinity of 14th Street and Memorial Bridges this morning. Whether or not these were the same boats using the marine radio frequency used for training purposes has not yet been confirmed," the agency said in its statement. "The best way that we in the Coast Guard can remember Sept. 11 and our security obligations to the nation is to be always ready and this requires constant training and exercise. To ensure the appropriate readiness posture we conduct training scenarios across the nation on a daily basis."

According to a person who listened to the training exercise, the Coast Guard was broadcasting on "Marine Channel 81A," 157.075, which is designated for "government use only." According to CNN's transcript of the radio traffic, one of the Coast Guard officers used the word "scenario" at one point, but the context was difficult to ascertain:

:24 you're approaching a coast guard security zone

:50 you're in a coast guard security zone

1:50 If you don't stop your vessel you will be fired upon. stop your vessel immediately

2:00 If you don't slow down and stop your vessel, and leave our zone you will be fired upon.

2:18 still in the zone, still in the zone

2:25 someone saying: bang, bang, bang

2:35 we have expended ten rounds, the vessel is operating at stern. we're going to reassess the situation.

3:20 this is the coast guard, have everyone go to the stern, place your engine in neutral

3:35 _____ out of play, _____ out of play, break scenario, break scenario, break

Aside from scaring the bejebers out of everyone, erroneous reports can create a cascade effect that turns a mistake into an emergency. Case in point: the Federal Aviation Authority, based on media reports, immediately shut down Reagan National Airport, causing a traffic jam in the airspace around Washington, which is always more dangerous for the planes that are waiting to land. Another law enforcement agency that patrols an island near the airport also took precautionary measures relying on CNN because the Coast Guard had no information to give.

politics.theatlantic.com...


Google Map of "between the 14th street and Memorial bridges"

And... for the record, if the query was being done on an actual vessel, I believe the call would have been on Channel 16. That's the one all vessels are required to monitor. After contact was made they would have been directed to another channel

Channel 16 (156.8 MHz) is the international calling and distress channel. Channel 9 can also be used in some places as a secondary call and distress channel.

For aircraft queries, initial contact is attempted on the International Air distress frequency for the same reason and purpose. (121.5 MHz)

[BTW, potentially getting blown out of the water or air would be considered by most to be an emergency]

So.. little things like the wrong frequency, and the "break scenario" call were missed by the "scanner buff" who happened to have been an assignment editor on the CNN news desk.

Yeah... blame the USCG.

How about CNN verifying the data before they jump all over a story.


Sorry for continuing to add to this post.

More on VHF Marine:

Transmission power ranges between 1 and 25 watts, giving a maximum range of up to about 60 nautical miles (111 km) between aerials mounted on tall ships and hills, and 5 nautical miles (9 km) between aerials mounted on small boats at sea-level.

So it is even possible that these calls were in Maryland waters 5 nm South.





[edit on 14-9-2009 by RoofMonkey]

Good information and research!

I having nothing to refute that nor will I attempt to BS to fill in any gaps in my theory. I will state that if this was a training scenario, it was extremely stupid, dangerous and could have been deadly. Still not sure why, given the day, time and package in the area, the ss wasn't notified. It may be protocol not to tell the ss on every training exercise so spare me that lecture but given the value of the package in the area on that day, they should have notified other agencies.

With that said, do you think any gov agency would run a training exercise in the hotel that was partially destroyed by terrorists on the anniversary of the event especially with the prez staying there and not tell the ss? No, probably not.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by Roadblockx]

Originally posted by Roadblockx
Good information and research!

I having nothing to refute that nor will I attempt to BS to fill in any gaps in my theory. I will state that if this was a training scenario, it was extremely stupid, dangerous and could have been deadly

...

With that said, do you think any gov agency would run a training exercise in the hotel that was partially destroyed by terrorists on the anniversary of the event especially with the prez staying there and not tell the ss? No, probably not.

Reading a script across a USCG R/T circuit not used in normal civilian vessel operations is inherently dangerous?

Yeah, if you are a CNN reporter trying to get a scoop. These are the same morons who showed up on the beach with lights and cameras to cover a covert night landing by Marines.

The Secret Service does not trouble itself with the day to day operations of the USCG. Their focus is protective services and chasing counterfeiters. Once the Prez leaves the area, they could care less about what you are doing... unless you are plotting some future nefarious operation against the Prez or are running a counterfeiting operation.


With regards to your Hotel scenario... your kidding right? Gawd I hope you are, since most people don't think apples come from orange trees.


I really wish that people would focus on the actual problem that this whole thing glaringly points out.

Just how mentally corrupt the main stream media is.

In general they spend the entirety of their careers spewing forth pablum that they actually think we are stupid enough to believe. Some get it right... but most don't. Just look at this thread. A majority of you are eagerly condemning a branch of the military service that was actually formed to drag your sorry wheezing carcass out of the water should you fall off your jet ski or wander too far out to sea.

I'm not in the USCG, and never was. But of all the services, they are the ones who do the most direct service to the population.

Neither CNN, nor the President can justify such a claim.






[edit on 15-9-2009 by RoofMonkey]

[edit on 15-9-2009 by RoofMonkey]

Originally posted by RoofMonkey

Originally posted by Roadblockx
Good information and research!

I having nothing to refute that nor will I attempt to BS to fill in any gaps in my theory. I will state that if this was a training scenario, it was extremely stupid, dangerous and could have been deadly

...

With that said, do you think any gov agency would run a training exercise in the hotel that was partially destroyed by terrorists on the anniversary of the event especially with the prez staying there and not tell the ss? No, probably not.

Reading a script across a USCG R/T circuit not used in normal civilian vessel operations is inherently dangerous?

Yeah, if you are a CNN reporter trying to get a scoop. These are the same morons who showed up on the beach with lights and cameras to cover a covert night landing by Marines.

The Secret Service does not trouble itself with the day to day operations of the USCG. Their focus is protective services and chasing counterfeiters. Once the Prez leaves the area, they could care less about what you are doing... unless you are plotting some future nefarious operation against the Prez or are running a counterfeiting operation.


With regards to your Hotel scenario... your kidding right? Gawd I hope you are, since most people don't think apples come from orange trees.


I really wish that people would focus on the actual problem that this whole thing glaringly points out.

Just how mentally corrupt the main stream media is.

In general they spend the entirety of their careers spewing forth pablum that they actually think we are stupid enough to believe. Some get it right... but most don't. Just look at this thread. A majority of you are eagerly condemning a branch of the military service that was actually formed to drag your sorry wheezing carcass out of the water should you fall off your jet ski or wander too far out to sea.

I'm not in the USCG, and never was. But of all the services, they are the ones who do the most direct service to the population.

Neither CNN, nor the President can justify such a claim.


[edit on 15-9-2009 by RoofMonkey]

[edit on 15-9-2009 by RoofMonkey]

And yet we wonder why free and open debate is sometimes challenged or made to be more difficult then necessary on ATS. Take one person who speaks the loudest and won't bend to or entertain any other thoughts or ideas and the others begin to leave a thread. Any further example needed?

The hotel scenario is of course apples and oranges. We all get that but your detective skills had to point out the obvious to everyone else. Fine. The point that was trying to be made was to give an example where communication is key. No one here, not even roofmonkey, can say where the prez was when the reports of gunfire happened. No one. If they claim to know, begin to disregard anything else they have said.

The USCG is a great and noble branch. We all get that. Being apart of the armed forces is an honorable achievement and after many intelligent discussions with my neighbor who is in the CG, I know they are smart individuals. Oddly enough, even humans can find a way to fork up an exercise but that is obviously an unneeded detail. I bet if something had happened that threatened the security of the prez or our nation, the CG and MSM would have told us right?

But as roofmonkey states, since the MSM has given us all of the information we could need and they even helped us form a conclusion to the event. So roofmonkey and the rest of those that see this muddy water so clearly, thanks for setting us all straight. Nothing to see here folks, the MSM and government has everything under control and will let you all know what has happened. Don't they always provide us the truth?



[edit on 15-9-2009 by Roadblockx]

Dunno if I should be ticked off about being lumped in with the MSM.

Originally posted by Roadblockx

...No one here, not even roofmonkey, can say where the prez was when the reports of gunfire happened. No one. If they claim to know, begin to disregard anything else they have said.

No. I don't know were he was at. I actually would rather not care. But from the available sources that I can quickly dredge up:

8:46

Obama and first lady Michelle Obama observed a moment of silence in honor of 9/11 victims outside the White House as a single bugler played taps. A Washington rain came to a stop as the observance began at 8:46 a.m.

ABC Local dot uhh.. something.

9:37 - 9:45 Speaking at the Pentagon - You tube video

Here (I didnt' want to embed)

10:05

"SUSPICIOUS VESSEL IN DC/Coast Guard fires on boat on Potomac River," said CNN's "breaking news" headline at 10:05.

Six minutes later, an "URGENT" bulletin flashed from Reuters, which attributed the information to CNN.

That prompted Fox News to report that shots had been fired, citing Reuters as its source. "Report: Coast Guard Fires on Suspicious Boat in Potomac," Fox News's headline said.

At 10:29, the "crisis" began to evaporate as CNN quoted two unidentified sources as saying the incident had been a "possible" Coast Guard training exercise. That is precisely what it was. No shots were ever fired; they had merely been described on a radio scanner.

www.washingtonpost.com...


So that gives us a 15 to 20 minute Window. Is it possible that the events were concurrent? Yeah, the time line shows that.

Was the channel being used the one that a query, hail or challange would be issued? No. They were on Ch 81 VHF marine, not Ch 16.

Was there information in the actual transmition that indicated that this might not be real? Yup. "Break Scenario" was stated towards the end of the transmition.

Was the drill being conducted by the boats on the Potomac? Dunno. VHF has a bit of travel distance, it could easily even have been down in Maryland 5+ nautical miles away.

Was the channel actually used specific to USCG operations? Yes. And normally non -USCG ships don't come up on that frequency.

Did nearby airports over react based on what they throught was a credible report from CNN? Yup.

Was it their fault? No. A lot of news outlets jumped on it. It looked credible.

Has CNN fired the idiot who caused this knee jerk reactiion by not verifying the data? Nope. I haven't even seen where they have identified him.

Vice Adm. John P. Currier, the Coast Guard's chief of staff, refused to apologize for not issuing an alert, saying that "even though it's unfortunate that it escalated to this level, what you're seeing here is a result of a normal training exercise."

"A routine, low-profile" drill is conducted about four times a week in the same part of the Potomac, Currier said, involving as many as four 25-foot "response boats," each armed with a bow-mounted, .762-caliber machine gun. He said the training is so "low tempo" and carried out so often that the Coast Guard does not give notice to other agencies or the community.

So... if news desk guy had actually seen fit to watch this VHF channel on a regular basis... he might have noticed that this happens there quite a bit.

"Scanner buff" my [expletive deleted]




[edit on 16-9-2009 by RoofMonkey]