God Commands You To Kill Gays

reply to post by JaxonRoberts



How many decades have you studied religions and why?

reply to post by EMPIRE


I am done with you and will not dignify your post with a response, and here's why. You are attempting to debate Christianity with me from the standpoint that you are a Christian, when you are not. A true Christian would not support or endorse what the 'preacher' in the OP is saying. A true Christian endevours to live their life in a Christ-like manner, something I can and do respect. Jesus would never espouse or support hatred, murder or the suppression of the rights of others, regardless of whether he was the Son of God or not. Jesus gave two 'Commandments', love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Simple, untwistable and very enlightened. Being able to quote Biblical passages does not make one a Christian, it makes one a Biblical Scholar. A very distinct difference.

Good day, Sir. I hope someday you find a way to purge your heart of all of the hate that you are currently harboring.

[edit on 3-9-2009 by JaxonRoberts]

reply to post by mamabeth


Fair question. Since childhood really. I was brought up a Christian and attended a Christian school. (I won't say how long ago, but Ronald Reagan was 'that guy in the Bonzo movies'). While I learned everything we were taught, and regularly attended Church, it never really rang true to me, and never filled my soul. In the seventh grade, our religion class was about World Religions. Although I knew other religions existed, I had never been exposed to them or what they believed. For the first time, I was not only interested in religion class, but excited about it.

After a few years of living on my own, I came to the conclusion that I was merely going through the motions and living a lie. I felt that if 'God' truly existed, then this would be more offensive, to continue showing up once a week just to keep my family happy, then to just stop going. A few years later, while at the book store, a book on Buddhism caught my eye, and I remembered back to that class, and bought it. I found it interesting and intriguing, and it left me hungry for more information.

A year later, I was taught Transcendental Meditation, which activated my latent ability of clairsentience. It was then that I felt the presence of the Divine for the first time. I finally felt whole. This began my quest to truly try to understand what the Divine is, and why we are here. Since then, I have read and studied about every religion I could, including the religion I was brought up in.

I have found wisdom and truth in each and every one I have studied, and continue to study to this day. The trick is to figure out what is Divinely inspired and what is just the word or beliefs of man. Anything that is touched by man carries man's preconceptions and prejudices, no matter the intent. This is clearly seen in both the Bible and in the Qur'an (and later in the Hadiths). I currently believe that there is no wrong way to acknowledge and honor the Divine, so long as it is in a positive manner, and only positive energy is put forth in It's name. (I use genderless pronouns due to the fact that it is man's predjudices to assign gender. The Divine is above gender, that is the perview of the biological world. Not to mention sexist.) My problem is with those who use faith to spread negativity in It's name. While I no longer believe that Jesus was divine (I don't think I ever really did), I do believe he was an exceptionally spiritual leader, and an inspiration and example of how to live a spiritually enlightened life.

I hope that answers your question.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka


Wow, so a pastor from Tempe Arizona is actually advocating for the execution of homosexuals.

The other day there was a thread on ATS about some horrific acts perpetrated by Iraqis against homosexuals. I posted saying "Christians... take heed, this is what your hate speech leads to" And everyone thought I was being extreme.

Well here ya go...



www.rightwingwatch.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

If you honestly believe these people are Christians or even Christ-like, then that says more about your intelligence than it does theirs. Love everybody!!!!! That's what Christ did. These wannabes are just out to persuade people to follow their ideals for power. Jesus is love. That pastor was out for power and control.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by EMPIRE

 

I am done with you and will not dignify your post with a response, and here's why. You are attempting to debate Christianity with me from the standpoint that you are a Christian, when you are not. A true Christian would not support or endorse what the 'preacher' in the OP is saying. A true Christian endevours to live their lives in a Christ-like manner, something I can and do respect. Jesus would never espouse or support hatred, murder or the suppression of the rights of others, regardless of whether he was the Son of God or not. Jesus gave two 'Commandments', love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Simple, untwistable and very enlightened. Being able to quote Biblical passages does not make one a Christian, it makes one a Biblical Scholar. A very distinct difference.

Good day, Sir. I hope someday you find a way to purge your heart of all of the hate that you are currently harboring.

Amen. Jesus is love, especially loving those that you may disagree with. Not claiming they will be banished to hell to scare them into believing and acting like you just care about them. That is nowhere near Christlike.

reply to post by thomasc83


See, there in lies the problem. So many lump anyone claiming to be a Christian together in one neat stack. I was guilty of it myself until very recently. It is the Faux Christians that give Christianity a bad name and leave such a bad taste in the mouths of alot of non-Christians. Trust me, from now on, I'll be calling the fakes out. I can and do respect True Christians. The posers can kiss my...

[edit on 3-9-2009 by JaxonRoberts]

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

How many decades have you studied religions and why?

I have studied religions for the past 20 years myself. and why? Because if I don't know the beliefs of others and how they feel, then my faith is weak and I'm ignorant to how to defend it.

Doesn't John 8 show us the way...

John 8 (New International Version)

John 8

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.

Jax said:

I am done with you and will not dignify your post with a response, and here's why.

Here it comes, more bottle-spinning.

You are attempting to debate Christianity with me from the standpoint that you are a Christian, when you are not.

You don’t know what religion I am or what I adhere to, sorry.

true Christian would not support or endorse what the 'preacher' in the OP is saying.

Here are two things you should know, and I hope this sinks in your head. The first thing is I’ve yet to support/endorse or condemn the preacher in question. What I have done, at least four times now, is asked for people to post the entire video or sound clip so I could watch/listen in totality in hopes of understanding the context of his statements. I will not, nor will I ever, form an opinion about his statements based on a two-minute clip posted from a person who readily admits they ridicule religious people. Can you say you’ve done this? The second thing is, you say what a true Christian will or won’t do, but you’ve already thrown Christianity out the window so why mention what true Christian will do? In fact, what is a true Christian?

A true Christian endevours to live their life in a Christ-like manner, something I can and do respect. Jesus would never espouse or support hatred, murder or the suppression of the rights of others, regardless of whether he was the Son of God or not. Jesus gave two 'Commandments', love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.

How do you know what Jesus would do? You already said the OT was false, so we’re to assume that you believe Jesus is true? However, the two commandments you posted are key, and all of the laws of the prophets hang on these. If you love God with all your heart, you won’t rob people, you won’t murder them, you won’t commit adultery, etc because you know these things do not please him. If you love your neighbor as yourself, you will not do these things as you would not want people to do them to you. Again, this much is about the only thing I agree with you on.

Simple, untwistable and very enlightened. Being able to quote Biblical passages does not make one a Christian, it makes one a Biblical Scholar. A very distinct difference.

I wouldn’t even say it makes one a Biblical scholar, but what does any of this have to do with what I said?

Good day, Sir. I hope someday you find a way to purge your heart of all of the hate that you are currently harboring.

Another false claim I see? You really don’t like being questioned do you? You absolutely hate it when your words come back to haunt you don’t you?

And even though this one wasn’t addressed to me I had to address it.

See, there in lies the problem. So many lump anyone claiming to be a Christian together in one neat stackI was guilty of it myself until very recently. .

As recently as two days ago, but I’m glad that you see “the light.”

[edit on 3-9-2009 by EMPIRE]

Originally posted by kinglizard
Doesn't John 8 show us the way...

John 8 (New International Version)

John 8

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.

No, actually it doesn't. Well, it does if you understand Jewish law, customs and the process of divorce (at that time.) What were these men guilty of? They had their own sins so they weren't able to bring her to trial? Maybe it could have been the fact that they didn't even go through the laws required to bring someone in for divorce, where was the man? For further insight refer to Deuteronomy 19. You people do know the man was supposed to be present as well right? If not, make sure you read Deut 22:22. Could this have been a sin? Hmmmm maybe an understanding of the previous mentioned things will shed light? Maybe they were with sin because they were using her as a pawn to ensnare him? That could be a valid reason right? Afterall, he's supposed to be mashiach, or claiming to be such, and here it is their trying to trap him.

But whatever the case may be, did he tell the woman she didn't sin? No. What did he tell her to do? This is key.

reply to post by EMPIRE


It was a bit of a trap but Jesus upheld the law by saying yes she should be stoned....as it is written...then he said "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." (I really see the new covenant with God in the statement.) All the men walked away because they know that all are guilty of sin and deserved punishment. He taught us to show compassion and forgiveness with those words, he also taught us that all sins can be erased allowing us to start anew.

In fact we can all find salvation and forgiveness through Christ...everyone, all sinners. After all Jesus died on the cross for the sinners not the righteous. So lets stop judging others and put God back at the head of the table...it is his position to judge not mans.

Jesus Christ is amazing. Enough Said.

reply to post by EMPIRE


Actually, I'm not sure that you can make that argument as to the motivation of Jesus in that moment, however, if you combine it with the parable of the debtor and his absolution of the fallen women whose "love covered a multitude of sins" then there is a distinct correlation in how he treated sinners--with forgiveness and a conviction that their positive actions outweighed the negative.

If you study Jewish Law, and I did, you will know that there are "positive" and "negative" commandments. Jesus gave positive commandments. He asked people to "do" all the time. Feed the hungry, care for the poor, tend to the sick, forgive, etc. The only negative commandments he gave here to judge not, condemn not, etc.

Moreover, when presented with another "trap" regarding marriage and divorce he noted that "Moses gave you those laws for the hardness of your hearts". He didn't say "G-d" gave you those laws.

So, regardless of what the "Law" stated Jesus took opposition where it was reasonable (and kind) much like Hillel before him and Akiba after him. Did it not say to keep the Sabbath, but what did they say you should do if an ox fell down a well on the Sabbath?

My point is that the Messiah was to fulfill God's covenant and fulfill the promise of the Torah, therefore if you believe Jesus was Messiah (and I happen to) then you believe him to be the interpretation of G-ds intentions for his people.

G-d does not want me to kill gays, or anyone else. I'm to love my enemies as I love my friends. I'm supposed to forgive people, and to not judge others. I'm supposed to refrain from condemnation, and to spend a life of service to others in order to fulfill my part of the bargain asked of me in the twenty fifth chapter of Matthew.

IF there are people who feel this way they are not Christians. They are also not Jews unless their mother was one they aren't apt to be embraced by an orthodox set that would go so far as to advocate stoning.

They are "cafeteria" Christians, and not real lovers of Jesus or they would do like he asked them to--I mean, that's the very least we do for our friends, so oughtn't we do more for one we proclaim to love and worship?

[edit on 3-9-2009 by A Fortiori]

Originally posted by kinglizard
reply to post by EMPIRE

 

It was a bit of a trap but Jesus upheld the law by saying yes she should be stoned....as it is written...then he said "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." (I really see the new covenant with God in the statement.) All the men walked away because they know that all are guilty of sin and deserved punishment. He taught us to show compassion and forgiveness with those words, he also taught us that all sins can be erased allowing us to start anew.

In fact we can all find salvation and forgiveness through Christ...everyone, all sinners. After all Jesus died on the cross for the sinners not the righteous. So lets stop judging others and put God back at the head of the table...it is his position to judge not mans.

This is why I asked the question, after Jesus asked her "who is here to persecute you?" she said "no one my lord" Jesus said then neither do I persecute you. "Go and sin no more" Now what do you think Jesus would have done if she came back with some of the comments we see going on here KL? what if she told Jesus, "hey screw you Jesus, you ain't God you ain't my boss, Ill do the wild thing with whom ever I want" .

Just how well do you know the personality Of Jesus Christ to give an accurate and most likely reaction to someone like that.

It's nice that everything worked out like it did that day, but what did Jesus do when things got out of hand? what would he have done if the woman were like the gays here because we are not talking to someone so timid and having such reverance for the lord.



[edit on 4-9-2009 by Stylez]

Stylez do you believe that all sinners have the opportunity to come to Jesus and find salvation?

Originally posted by kinglizard
Stylez do you believe that all sinners have the opportunity to come to Jesus and find salvation?

I believe Jesus picked me, I wasn't lookin for him when I accepted him.

No I don't believe all sinners (which would mean every man woman on the face of the earth) have that opportunity because I simply don't know everyone.

Originally posted by Stylez
I believe Jesus picked me, I wasn't lookin for him when I accepted him.

Oh, that's wonderful Stylez.

Originally posted by Stylez
No I don't believe all sinners (which would mean every man woman on the face of the earth) have that opportunity because I simply don't know everyone.

That's a little confusing to me bud.

What judgments would you make on an individual if you were to meet everyone on earth? I mean to say what criteria in your opinion would one use to say this person can find salvation through Christ and this other may not?

Do you believe the Bible is God's word?

John 3:16 (New International Version)

"For God so loved the world (all people in the world) that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


edit: spelling

[edit on 9/4/2009 by kinglizard]

www.belowtopsecret.com...

the gospel about homosexuality.

Originally posted by kinglizard


Oh, that's wonderful Stylez.

umm Thanks I think

That's a little confusing to me bud.
What judgments would you make on an individual if you were to meet everyone on earth? I mean to say what criteria in your opinion would one use to say this person can find salvation through Christ and this other may not?

Oh KL when I said "No I don't believe all sinners (which would mean every man woman on the face of the earth) have that opportunity because I simply don't know everyone"

it isn't me making judgements it is circumstances like the reason you said we should not kill homosexuals or any other person for their sin. Well, sometimes that happens. Sometimes babies never get to hear the word of God but I like to think they are innocent, their are some in the church that would argue with me on that. Before we had cable and television, there were remote places where entire people would live out their lives and never hear the gospel.

Do you believe the Bible is God's word?

John 3:16 (New International Version)

"For God so loved the world (all people in the world) that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Yes I believe that and in him with all my heart and I'd say all my soul but, that belongs to him too hehe



[edit on 4-9-2009 by Stylez]

i still like your honesty
even when it wouldn't bother me if you would grow more empathy.
seeing youself in other persons, even when they are 'bad'.
yeah, i know you ignore me, but i dont return that.
take care