Are you really that UPSET about Slavery?

reply to post by EMPIRE


I would dearly love someone, anyone, to explain this thing called "white privledge" to me...

The white privilege that allows me to live paycheck to paycheck? The same privilige that disqualifies me from most public assistance, were I so inclined? That white privilege? Frankly, I can do without the "privilege"...

Slavery?

It is everyones fault.

The blacks for selling their own racial group, and then the whites for buying them up.

We should not forget slavery, but teach it, recognize it, and move on. That is something many Americans can not yet do.

reply to post by seagull


Yeah I don't really get the white priveledge thing either. I'm assuming he means whites get better jobs... But me personally, I'm black and am a skilled computer programmer and website builder and work in general IT. I got my job over many other people, black and white. I got the job because all of us applicant were tested and I did better on the test than anyone else. Thats why I was hired.

I have white buddies and they live the same as me, I don't see them getting anymore opportunities than me. I also know many poor white people as well as black people and the reason they are poor is because they are lazy and choose to live off the government.


[edit on 19-8-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

I apparently am privileged because being white (mostly) means that I'm prefered and that people in the past showed biases towards people who were alike to them. Crazy. That never happens with non-white people.

My ancestors don't qualify for being "them" people who I'm supposed to feel bad for looking like.

I've got one direct ancestor immigrant who was literally taken into the orphanages, probably abused, and then brought over to perform farm labour and become a solidier. Privilege.

I've got another direct ancestor that was rounded up out of the country side of Germany by force by German prices, and then relocated to North America to fight as forced mercenaries for King George. If you tried to leave you were hung, or if they didn't kill you you got to run 'the gauntlet" 30 or 40 times. Surviving, it was just too much effort to transport them back so they were sent to Canada.

Another direct ancestor was brought over as a bonded servant. When the family packed the house up to come across the pond, they brought their possession with them. My ancestor being one of those possessions.

Yep. Seems like *I* owe people an apology....for something.....I think it might be for having been born.


There are some rich, powerful, elites of all stripes that have managed to pull a really big con. Rather than hold them responsible, they first screwed our ancestors, and then managed to download blame for their behaviour onto those ancestors too. AWESOME.

[edit on 2009/8/19 by Aeons]

reply to post by Aeons


No man, you dont need to apoligise for anything. Don't have white guilt either, you have done nothing wrong. For instance I am black and youve never done anything to me, I was never a salve and you were enver a slave owner. Don't let people tell u that BS that you owe them something because of the color of your skin. I'm half white but im pretty darkskinned and I've had dudes tell me I'm not "real black" because my mother was white ad jewish. The people who say this stuffa re dumb, uneducated, ignorant racists, that cant think very well and they of incapable of living life like everyone else, but they choose to blame everything on "the white man". I've witnessed it first had through my drunk drug addict parents who sit around collecting gov money, and I hate to say but a few of my friends are the same. I refuse to use welfare, although I was a marine and some consider that "using the govfor money" but thats a stupid argument, because I'm have the cash just handed to me. I had to work my ass off in iraq 2 different times, and tons of other stuff to earn the meager wages the military offers.

What people dont realize is we are all in the same boat, we are all struggling in this day and age with money. And as far as white privledge, I dont get it. Like I said I got a highly good job in computers, and I got the job over about 15 other people, all people of all colors. I got the job because I answered like everyone question on the test, I did than everyoone else. I dont get white privledge thing. And please dont anyone say or think I got hired just cause I was black and they didnt want me pulling the race card or something, there were other black guys and they didnt get hired. I got hired based solely on skills and my work efficiency.

And maybe he means blacks cant buy houses or something, well I'm ony 26 and my wife I are getting a ncie house in a suburb somewhere, because I don't wanna raise my daughter and our upcoming baby in a nice area, not the middle of industrial, factory laden, rat hole Oakland CA. Anyways, I ahvent seen white privledge with this either. We've even looked at houses in Marin County which is by here and its really nice are, but anyways weve even had a few houses there already offered to us. I saw no "white privledge" there. And my wife is half black/half japanese too.

But yeah dont feel guilt dude, I'm black and I respect all white peple as long as they show respect. You guys owe me and my people nothing. Enough said .

And I dont hate my own people, I just dont like lazy people of any color. I left home at 15 and although were homless for a bit, I managed to take care of my sister and then girlfriend now wife, now I'm quite successful and make around 100k year doing something I love, I consider that good money.. If I candoit anyone can.

No white privledge effected me getting my job, I just aced the test and they hired the best man.

Anyways I'm ranting


[edit on 20-8-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Wow I see a lot of over generalizations on this thread...but anyway I will attempt to explain white privilege. First let me start of by saying it is not a personal attack on anyone its just reality in America. White privilege is bascially an advantage given to the dominant culture, in this case, we are talking about caucasians in America. It is something you don't earn but have access to because of your culture in this case being a caucasian american.

Here are a few examples in daily life from Peggy Mcintosh (women studies expert):
I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

Now let me reiterate this is not an attack on caucasians in general but more of a critique of society. This also applies to white women, gay/lesbian persons, and people living with disabilities. The privilege system works of the hetero normative white male societal structure basically. I mean you can choose to deny the countless cases of racial injustice against minorities if you like but it is reality. I guess it is not really something you can totally understand until you are in a situation where you are a minority most of the time.

As for the issue of still being concerned about slavery, you have to understand that a lot of African Amercans have older family members who fought during the civil rights era who came from families basically fresh out of slavery. So of course the hurt, anger, and lessons from it will be passed down as something not to forget. Its just like a lot of Irish/German/Italian etc families still talk about when they first arrived here and the hardships they faced.

The college tuition argument is one I have heard countless times. But it does not work the way people are painting it here. You cannot just get a scholarship because you are a minority, you have to have good academic standing. All minorities do not have their college tuition paid for just because, and that mindset is foolish, bitter, and works to further undermine the accomplishments the people who worked hard to put themselves through school.

reply to post by acmpnsfal


Yeah the college argument is stupid. I havent known one balck guy whos got a scholorship from any fund including the united negro college fund. Sadly I only have 2 friends that have gone to college out of a hundred people orso I know. Course I didnt go and I didnt even graduate at highschool because I left home at 15 and had to support mysef and my GF. But still I self taught myself computer programming along with many other related stuff, and it makes me feel really good about myself because I've been getting jobs over college educated kids. Mainly because I'm ultra skilled and I have a extreme passion for computers, its not just a job.

Anyways I'm ranting...

Peace

White privilege is easy to get rid of.

First of all, explaining that peopel band together isn't necessary. That's apparent.

Understanding that the vast majority of people did not intentionally create or participate in that system is important.

Because you aren't going to get rid of divisions by blaming one "side" and then refusing to understand it too.

Lots of people got screwed. Lots of people who are the descendents of people who got screwed are completely free to throw that off and avail themselves of a plethora of opportunity regardless.

You're supposed to try and understand, and then work together. Not scream and finger point and pretend that "we" are the victims. It didn't happen to any of us. The scars of the previous generations, and the good of them too, rests on us for sure. It doesn't define who you are.

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by EMPIRE

Originally posted by Aeons
Has it occured to you that "white" isn't some big conglomerate culture? So "privilege" wasn't ever exactly evenly spread?

No. Everyone should be judged not by the actions of others of the same religion, culture, gender, creed.....

Except if you're white. THEN you're all the same. You are all nothing but the worst of you.

Good stuff.

Has it ever occured to you that "white" is often looked on as a big conglomerate culture and that "priveilege" extends outside of this country?

Tim Wise, he is your friend. Good stuff for sure!

Only it isn't. The people you think of as white and privileged often paid for that "privilege" in total cultural annihilation against their will. But hey, I guess that's a Privilege.

They benefit from it and many don't lift a finger to speak out against it. Yes, it is a privilege, especially when you venture outside of this country and see how White Americans are treated.

White privilege is easy to get rid of.

In your previous posts you seem to imply it doesn't exist now you're saying it exists and is easy to get rid of? How can people so easily do away with White Privilege when it has cultural, sociological and economic aspects that extend outside of this country? Surely you don't honestly believe what you posted is some 'remedy' or elixer to solving the problem...

[edit on 24-8-2009 by EMPIRE]

[edit on 24-8-2009 by EMPIRE]

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
Slavery?

It is everyones fault.

The blacks for selling their own racial group, and then the whites for buying them up.

This has to be one of the most inaccurate posts on this site.

Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
reply to post by seagull

 

Yeah I don't really get the white priveledge thing either. I'm assuming he means whites get better jobs... But me personally, I'm black and am a skilled computer programmer and website builder and work in general IT. I got my job over many other people, black and white. I got the job because all of us applicant were tested and I did better on the test than anyone else. Thats why I was hired.

I have white buddies and they live the same as me, I don't see them getting anymore opportunities than me. I also know many poor white people as well as black people and the reason they are poor is because they are lazy and choose to live off the government.


[edit on 19-8-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

In another thread you clearly proved yourself to be a person not familiar with race relations and a person who speaks/types without critical analysis. Knowing this to be fact, I can't, nor would I, expect you to know what I am conveying here. However, I previously posted the name TIM WISE. Maybe you and Aeon should google the name and read for a bit.



[edit on 24-8-2009 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by EMPIRE


no hes right.. its about mentality..

its about HUMANS selling and BUYING humans its called SLAVE TRADE

you are a slave now... ITS CALLED MONEY but you go along with it because you can not understand being something els

or using another way of BEING get me? MONEY is based on? PROFIT

everyone SCREWS everyone ... why?

because people are DUMB

reply to post by EMPIRE


It isn't "white privilege." It is merely that they happen to be the largest group in the area. Being hated, means people are more likely to band together to protect themselves.

That isn't going to stop by promoting hate.

Why would ANYONE give away privileges? That is stupid. No one is going to do that.

Pulling people down is just dumb. Pulling everyone up, well that's a whole other thing now isn't it?

And people in these nations damn well have done more than ANY other culture or nation in all of history to correct this situation. They have voted in great numbers over and over people who will correct it. They've supported social programs to undo it. They've supported financially and ideologically systems to educate, house, and bring human rights to people of any type.

The people you are talking about, as a whole, have done more to try and alleviate this situation than anyone else anywhere on the planet has ever done. That is far from nothing.

[edit on 2009/8/25 by Aeons]

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by EMPIRE

 

no hes right.. its about mentality..

its about HUMANS selling and BUYING humans its called SLAVE TRADE

you are a slave now... ITS CALLED MONEY but you go along with it because you can not understand being something els

or using another way of BEING get me? MONEY is based on? PROFIT

everyone SCREWS everyone ... why?

because people are DUMB

This post is all over the place.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by EMPIRE

 

It isn't "white privilege." It is merely that they happen to be the largest group in the area. Being hated, means people are more likely to band together to protect themselves.

It is White Privilege, and White Privilege is the term used by sociologist and people who study race relations. From the looks of your previous post I come to the conclusion that you've never heard the term before this thread, so there is no way I'm going to even remotely consider your statement as valid. No, it is not that they "happen" to be the largest group in the area, and your use of the word "merely" to describe the true nature and scale of it shows you can't present a cogent arguement as it relates to the subject. As I've previously stated, it extends outside the borders of this country, even where Whites are the minority.

That isn't going to stop by promoting hate.

Please clarify your statements. What isn't going to stop by promoting hate and who is promoting hate?

Why would ANYONE give away privileges? That is stupid. No one is going to do that.

Actually it isn't "stupid" and was often promoted by religious figures such as Jesus and Buddah. And contrary to what you've posted, people actually do it. The problem is you don't see it happening on a large scale, and in areas where it needs to happen (both geographically and economically) so you don't see an even playing field.

Pulling people down is just dumb. Pulling everyone up, well that's a whole other thing now isn't it?

Please clarify this statement. Who is being pulled down and who is doing the pulling?

And people in these nations damn well have done more than ANY other culture or nation in all of history to correct this situation. They have voted in great numbers over and over people who will correct it. They've supported social programs to undo it. They've supported financially and ideologically systems to educate, house, and bring human rights to people of any type.

People in what nations? Your thoughts are all over the place and it's hard to grasp what you're attempting to present here.

The people you are talking about, as a whole, have done more to try and alleviate this situation than anyone else anywhere on the planet has ever done. That is far from nothing.

I can't make head or tails of what you're saying because your posts have been contradictory in nature, and it appears that you're loosing your train of thought. So in order to have a better understanding of your perspective, and so you can have a better understanding of mine, I ask that you tell me who you think I'm talking about.


[edit on 25-8-2009 by EMPIRE]

This is link will take you a video of a man who demanded a formal apology from the uk for "our" part in the slave Trade.

www.youtube.com...

He says that "you should be ashamed of yourselves"

The point of that service wasnt to laugh about it. "sorry isnt good enough" Then should someone jump in there time machine warn the people of then? I dont know what its like for colored's of america but here in the Uk black people have a fair chance at life. Just like whites.
At the end of the day its what you make of it and i feel sorry for those that feel hard-done by.
I didnt participate in such cruelty and i havent benefited directly from it so i refuse to be guilty.

Anyone can demand a formal apology, but what will you do with it then? Frame it?

I think Slavery, just like Manifest Destiny and the Trail of Tears that followed in it's wake, or the Internment Camps of WWII, are shameful moments in our communal history that we all should be ashamed of. I think that it is important that we carry that shame from generation to generation, not out of guilt, but so that we always remember lest we make the same mistake to some other demographic of people in the future. So yes, whether you are Black or White, Asian or Hispanic, or even from Mars, you should be upset about Slavery (and any other wrong our Nation has committed whether in the past or present).

Even though the Sins of the Father should not reflect upon their children, does it behoove me to formerly apologize for something that one of my ancestors may have done? No, not really. I'm not too proud to apologize for what someone else has done to another. Heck, when I'm standing in line at the store and see someone be rude to another in line in front of me, I lean over to them and apologize for the other person's rudeness. That's empathy. That's what makes us human.

However, although Racism may still exist in some forms throughout our culture, we are now all equals born with the same opportunities. I'm not going to blame African Americans for my being poor, just as I wouldn't think about blaming Hispanics for taking my job because they have a stronger work ethic than I do. None of us should be blaming anyone else for the choices that we make and where those choices lead us. We all need to learn to take personal accountability for our lives instead of blaming others.

Racism needs to end, and it is definitely on it's way towards becoming extinct, but blaming everything on Racism isn't going to speed it along it's way. Playing the Race Card has to stop eventually first if we are to expect Racism to ever die.

I remember being called Racist twice in my life.

The first time I was 7 years old and playing at my best friend's house. His mother invited me to dinner. Being a curious 7 year old, I looked at what she was cooking and told her "Thank you very kindly for the offer, but to be honest, I don't eat pork." My best-friend's mom went ballistic saying "What's the matter? My Black cooking isn't good enough for you, Ma'sah?" I was confused and didn't understand why she was angry, and did what any other 7 year does and went back to playing with her son. She called my dad to tell him to pick up his "racist son". When my dad came in, he was beyond apologetic to her and told me sternly to get in the car. I knew I was going to get the belt for something, although I didn't understand for what. As I was walking out the door, my dad asked what I did to offend her so deeply and she explained that I wouldn't stay for her Hot-Dog Creole. My dad started laughing and told her " You really need to talk to his mother because she's been trying to get him to eat Hot-Dogs for years to no avail either." She wasn't convinced that I wasn't a racist and wouldn't let her son and I play together ever again.

The second time I was called a "Racist" was on BART in San Francisco. Some guy was being a total jerk to everyone on the train. I exclaimed aloud "How rude!" He looked back at me and told me to keep my Racism to myself. I laughed and told him "I don't care what Race you are, there is no excuse for being a rude jerk!" He called me a "Racist" again when he got off at his stop. I guess he didn't get the point.

I guess the point is in all of this is that just as Racism can no longer be tolerated, it can no longer be tolerated to blame everything that someone does on "Racism". It's not a Catch-All excuse anymore, unless it's one of those rare instances where Racism really is clearly involved. At some point we all have to get over it. Moving beyond Racism works both ways, with all of us meeting half-way and coming together as equals.

does not bother me. people suck, nothing new to see here.

reply to post by STFUPPERCUTTER


I'll probably get flammed for saying this but oh well. Slavery, in the long run, has had a postive effect for blacks. The slaves decendents now live in one of the greatest nations in the world and have oppertunities those who were left in africa will never have. Hard price to pay, but then again those alive today did not pay it themselves, their ancestors did.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
reply to post by STFUPPERCUTTER

 

I'll probably get flammed for saying this but oh well. Slavery, in the long run, has had a postive effect for blacks. The slaves decendents now live in one of the greatest nations in the world and have oppertunities those who were left in africa will never have. Hard price to pay, but then again those alive today did not pay it themselves, their ancestors did.

More idiocy.