Missing ship may have secret cargo

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
reply to post by Helmkat

 

Sure, I am, and was open in the OP. What you stated shows a level of extreme power to accomplish.

Even if it were a secret sophisticated spy ship, they'd have had a very good defensive capability, and an even better amount of paper work/registration.

I don't think they'd have allowed anyone to even come aboard had it simply been that, but I just don't know.

What's for sure is this turning into something which could have effects in the future; one way or another.

I've seen these vessels before, they look much like any other and do perform normal duties, they are also beholden to the same maritime laws as any vessel, they want to stay "under the radar". They would get boarded as normal course often (Port pilots etc.) Only a small portion of the crew may of been aware of its secondary role. Its defensive attributes are mute if infiltrated from within as well (also the under the radar mode limits defensive hardware).

Also I have to wonder now if there was/is some Nato/Swedish -looking the other way- in this matter as they may be the secondary benefactors of any intel gathered.

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
reply to post by Gordi The Drummer

 

Hi,

The only problem with that is this. In February 7,or 8th, of 2007...I believe that is close date.

Putin made a speech to the UN. In the speech he disclosed that the former USSR, and the USA had sold anyone in the world with the money, ***ANY*** weapon they wanted in the 80's, and early 90's.

I used to know the speech, and date by heart, but haven't referenced it in a long time.

It was near, and around a time when we were getting ready to hit Iran(as always).

Nukes aren't hard to come by.

Cool, but I don't think that contradicts any of my suggestions?
Especially if the special forces just went in to check out what was actually on board, discovered the nukes (or whatever), then decided that they had to do something about it.

reply to post by Helmkat


Hey, I'll take it being a scuttled, or stolen spy ship any day of the week.... That, or just showing up somewhere with nothing happening.

A pile of wood can hide a lot of things. I just want to make sure people are vigilant for anything occurring with the same "class" ship; as I'm sure the name, and registration have been changed.

Now what would be interesting is if any ships have suddenly popped up on the radar..... like an African ship out of no where......

You are steering in right direction but you steel don’t know the answer on question “why?”. From my perspective I could say that as a Polish I understand Russian reality better than most of the people from the western world. It was not so simple for sure that Russians put some weapon of mass destruction on the ship to sold it to the bad guys but USA stol it secretly using device from Philadelphia experiment Russia has no interest in spending such weapons to Algeria or any other country. So Russia as a country wouldn’t do that but… who and why?

In my opinion one of the Russian generals come with the idea how he could earn some money for his retiring. The corruption in Russian army is legendary. You always will find person which could sell anything you want from the Russian arsenal and no one ever find that something is missing because they have such mess. They even lost in misterious circumstances about 50-100 nuclear bombs after soviet union collapsed.

The scenario in my opinion was that some high military officials was making illegal deals with Algerian. They prepared a ship in shipyard in Kaliningrad to carry that secret cargo and they do it in the right way in case of such incident which happened later on Baltic sea. Some of the western intelligences discovered that fact of that deal. I would say that in my opinion it could be France although they have many secret operations in their former colony of Algeria. They try to catch the cargo fast but as they discovered it was probably hidden in the construction of that ship and they were unable to take it without heavy tools. Probably they thought it would be easier to get it. They know that majority of crew don’t know anything about that cargo so after playing some police comedy they live the ship to return later to snatch whole ship when it get to the ocean. They could snatch the ship in the Baltic sea but in that situation they would be unable to escape from that sea so they mount only tracking device and wait until La Manche. There is the biggest sea traffic in the world in that place. So many ships that no one find the missing one and its close to French coast.

If I have to guess that ship is now in one of the French naval ports and Russian navy is tracking similar ship replaced with the arctic sea to misled the pursuit.
The question is why the Russian react on that situation. They probably understand what is happening when they cached signals from the crew after they are overran in the Baltic sea. Then they needed some time to find what is all about. Maybe one of the military person involved in that deal panicked when he understand that the cargo was found and probably tracked and the whole Russian machine was lunched.

What was that cargo? I would say that probably some missiles or missile components with Russian electronic which contain their secret codes. They would be very unhappy if such technology sweep into NATO’s hands. Unfortunately for them, and lucky for us it happened even if we never find the all answers.


[edit on 13-8-2009 by odyseusz]

[edit on 13-8-2009 by odyseusz]

Originally posted by jammer2012
Then you have Putin hes a master chess player and one savvy individual.

I hear that Putin is related to Chuck Norris...... When Putin does a push up, he isn't lifting himself up....he's pushing the whole world down!



Sorry......had to.

reply to post by Gordi The Drummer


Yes sir, you are correct. I was only wanting to point out it's not about nukes...the grand scheme of things.... as putin pointed out.

reply to post by Gordi The Drummer


Ok, not too far-fetched. But why do the initial boarding in the Baltic where there is no where to hide? Why not do it in the channel with the help of the British? (They are our friends you know.)

And why would the Russians want to sell nukes to Africa or the Middle East? Don't forget they are fighting the same types of groups in some of their republics that we are in Afghanistan and elsewhere. They have a significant self interest is nonproliferation, probably more than the US. What they sell today might be used against them next year.

And why ship nukes by sea through heavily patrolled shipping lanes. The Russians have the Black Sea and could ship things overland to there then through the Black Sea and into the Med. I bet we have neutron detectors that could see the stuff from the shores of the Bosforus but why would they care? Besides, I bet the channel is monitored in the same way. If you really wanted to keep something secret you would ship it by air.

It's strange that Russia is holding "search and rescue" exercises in the Pacific. They also drilled how to board and save ships in distress.


ITAR-TASS: Russian border guards hold exercises in Pacific Ocean

13.08.2009


The border troops trained to chase ships that intrude Russian territorial waters, use aviation to stop it and to dismount FSB commando units onboard of the detained vessel with the help of helicopters. They also drilled how to search and save ships in distress.

RIA Novosti: Russian border guards exercise in Pacific with FSB aviation

13/08/2009


Russian coast guards and Federal Security Service (FSB) air units have conducted a series of exercises in the Pacific, a spokesman said on Thursday.

He said the tactical exercise rehearsed actions to counter unlawful activities at sea, as well as search and rescue operations

When the ferry Estonia was sunk in 1994 (killing 852 passengers), NATO held a "search and rescue" operation in the Baltic Sea at the same time. I know these Russian exercises are in the Pacific and that the "Arctic Sea" is missing in the Atlantic, but...

reply to post by rmiller196


You make good points, they do have many other means of transporting things. Time will tell what happend to this ship.

reply to post by rmiller196


I think you just pointed out the very real possibility, or

the case towards the fishy possibility of many(or too many powerful) people knowing, and it being for a false flag...

The guy from poland above made a very reasonable statement, but again lots of people would be watching.

What's to say there wasn't an extra GPS put somewhere on the ship... If it were my ship, then I'd hide one for just myself to know.

reply to post by Hellmutt

It's not that strange, one of the top Pirate areas is in SE Asia, primarily the Malacca straits area near Indonesia.

reply to post by odyseusz


Most likely scenario I've read so far!

Now, it is possible that even the captain did not know about the secret cargo. But if he did, would e have continued after the first boarding? Perhaps if he thought nothing had been discovered. But if discovery was suspected would the mission continue? I'm not sure but I would think that there would be a desire maintain as much secrecy as possible and that means not continuing and revealing who the customer was.

Originally posted by rmiller196
reply to post by Gordi The Drummer

 

Ok, not too far-fetched. But why do the initial boarding in the Baltic where there is no where to hide? Why not do it in the channel with the help of the British? (They are our friends you know.)

And why would the Russians want to sell nukes to Africa or the Middle East? Don't forget they are fighting the same types of groups in some of their republics that we are in Afghanistan and elsewhere. They have a significant self interest is nonproliferation, probably more than the US. What they sell today might be used against them next year.

And why ship nukes by sea through heavily patrolled shipping lanes. The Russians have the Black Sea and could ship things overland to there then through the Black Sea and into the Med. I bet we have neutron detectors that could see the stuff from the shores of the Bosforus but why would they care? Besides, I bet the channel is monitored in the same way. If you really wanted to keep something secret you would ship it by air.

If you read my post you probably find some answers. I just spend much time to analyze that.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by odyseusz]

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


Military cargos are nearly always tracked even routine shipments like boots or toilet paper. It is easy to do and keeps "leakage" to a minimum. Theft used to be a serious problem in all militarys.

reply to post by odyseusz


Yes, I read your post and we seem to agree that official Russian involvement in selling nukes is unlikely.

I liek your post. You have definitely thought about this logically and offered an intelligent explanation.

Originally posted by rmiller196
reply to post by Gordi The Drummer

 

Ok, not too far-fetched. But why do the initial boarding in the Baltic where there is no where to hide? Why not do it in the channel with the help of the British? (They are our friends you know.)

They board in the Baltic, so that the Russians won't suspect the US or UK involvement, and also to "Fit in" with the Swedish DEA cover story!

And why would the Russians want to sell nukes to Africa or the Middle East? Don't forget they are fighting the same types of groups in some of their republics that we are in Afghanistan and elsewhere. They have a significant self interest is nonproliferation, probably more than the US. What they sell today might be used against them next year.

It could be (as mentioned by another poster earlier) a rogue general financing his retirement, or Putin, trying to protect his countries interests in the Middle East, beefing up Irans arsenal? I'm not sure.

And why ship nukes by sea through heavily patrolled shipping lanes. The Russians have the Black Sea and could ship things overland to there then through the Black Sea and into the Med. I bet we have neutron detectors that could see the stuff from the shores of the Bosforus but why would they care? Besides, I bet the channel is monitored in the same way. If you really wanted to keep something secret you would ship it by air.

I'm guessing, for all of the reasons that you've just mentioned. The US would never expect them to use this route. So they find a way to hide the signature beneath several feet of lead, built in under the water-line of a freighter? The best route to take, would be the one that your enemy least expects!!

I honestly don't know! I was just spitballing a potential scenario in answer to the previous questions... what would they want with an old freighter etc?

The real situation as we know it, is certainly an interesting story so far.

reply to post by Gordi The Drummer


That all makes sense. We'll need to wait and see if any additional news comes out or if the story dies.

reply to post by rmiller196


If I'm not here tomorrow...... you'll know I was onto something!!
LOL

The boarding was made by people in paramilitary or police style uniform, and they were well armed, and used military/police style take-down tactics. This was stated in many of the early reports, including one that said the ship was Russian, which it may well be in reality, the registration can be just a flag of convenience. Both the owners of the timber cargo, and the editor of the Russian Maritime bulletin Sovfracht, have said that there is a posssibilty of a secret cargo.The Spanish authorities have stated that the ship never entered the Mediterranean. The ship itself is well equipped with modern electronics and is no tramp steamer.It had radio communication with Dover on the 28th and was last recorded on a ship tracking device/system of the coast of Brest, France on July 30th.So, you have a ship now with 14 days potential sailing in the Atlantic and apparantly some communications undamaged, where would it go, or be at this stage at a speed of 13 knots/15 mph?

[edit on 13-8-2009 by smurfy]

reply to post by smurfy


Anywhere within 5040 miles?
I'd guess.