America Won the Vietnam War ! - Yes you heard right.

a reply to: buddah6

It'll swing back or they'll go all the way and try it. We'll see.

Winning all battles doesn't mean you've won a war.
Vietnam lost the war, but America didn't win.

The communists won that war, China.

Vietnam is a beautiful place, too bad the "Red vs Blue" war touched them. But it is all not that bad!

Luckily,their puppeteer is China, not Russia. China proved to be more interested in growth than ideologic BS like Russia,at least after the brutal and less-than-human Mao died.
Vietnam is no Singapore, but it is far from being an easter european country decimated by the USSR. They've been doing well and i'm sure they will keep it up. They can forget about sovereignty of course, but some say it is an overrated term.

Hoping to visit Vietnam sometime in my life.

a reply to: metodex

Orangetom, I made a terrible mistake! I forgot to thank your Dad for his service...anyone who served under Curtis LeMay in SAC gets my vote...hooah.

Cav, I wished that I wasn't so damned broken or I'd get involved rather than sitting on the sidelines.

Metodex. Vietnam is indeed beautiful. I have spent 27 months there and on my second tour there I was able to see much more of it than my first trip. On my first tour, I spent 12 months sitting on a hilltop in Phouc Tuy province.

I would venture to say, Vietnam will become another Singapore...just give it time.

Isn't it strange how if you leave politics out of the equation how much more peaceful things are.

a reply to: buddah6

Not to worry they would need guards who could stay awake at night...

originally posted by: buddah6
a reply to: orangetom1999

Up front, I want to thank you also for your service as well.

I'm so heart broken by the condition of my country. I'm in my sixties and all of this is new to me. I have never seen everyone at each others throat as we are today. Even in the 1960 riots the country wasn't in such a malaise.

Budah6,

I too am heartbroken by events of today and what is trying to pass for excellence and the moral high ground. It is none of these.

I am insulted by what tries to pass for leadership in both political parties.

For I know that a good and true leader..unites a people...not divides them into opposing camps.

When you lead men on dangerous and risky tasks..men will go far for someone in whom they have confidence..or as we sometimes say ..confidence is high.

When you work with men who are men..a mans man...confidence is high and the jobs usually go well..because of this very confidence. For these men have focus, discipline, skill sets...training an attention span...all leading to high confidence. And a leader can get the best out of them..a real leader...not this ersatz PC stuff of today.

When I observe many of what tries to pass for leadership today I do not get this confidence nor that they have an attention span past the length of a sound bite.

This is not an understanding that can be taught in classrooms...or sanitary PC enviornments ..on a mock up per se...but must be lived...with it's harsh realities.

I've told the bosses that I don't want so and so with me on a job...because of that very ..."No confidence." You don't pull punches here on critical and dangerous tasks/jobs. No lightweights need apply. And you don't have to be nice or PC about it.

I look at leadership today with the same critical eye...I would not trust most of them to feed my pets.

And it ought not to be this way. It was never intended to be this way ..by our founders.

We desperately need uniters ..not dividers.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

You have an excellent way of telling like it is! We do need uniters but, unfortunately, most of our leadership today are "bought dogs." They assume their offices with a predetermined agendas regardless of party or organization.

Like you said, we need leader who we have confidence in their skills...a "warrior king" in the names of people like Norm Schwartzkhoff, Robin Olds or even Curtis LeMay. Someone who would just by their presence intimidate our adversaries to be good neighbors. They would have absolutely no doubt that if they crossed us there would be a swift outcome. I'm an old soldier who believes in peace though superior firepower. I'm not a warmonger but when we lose the will to fight for what we believe there will always be some one who will fight us to take it away.

No one fears Obama except our citizens, certainly not our adversaries! We have congress who has linguine for spines who use fear mongering as a leadership tool. Everything is a crisis but they go on vacation for five weeks while "ROME burns." What's the old saying? "Don't P's on my head and tell me it's raining." The US politician's credo!

a reply to: buddah6


Wow!! Curtis LeMay, Robin Olds, Stormin Norman. All of them shooters. All of them versed in, know , and have lived history.

For it is a well balanced warrior who knows the value of Peace..having intimately seen and lived what happens when Peace fails. The terrible terrible price..even for the victors in shedding their finest blood.

I too believe in Peace..and well aimed and directed firepower...overwhelming if needed. But at the same time ..because of Peace..you hope you never have to use it...that respectful diplomacy will properly function in lieu of firepower.

At the same time I am not enamored of "Two Legged Wildlife." Undiciplined , coarse, wildlife.

I am aware that often, and as recorded in history, that when one is judged as weak...people will pick on you like a scab and when you are fallen...jump on you like a pack of wild dogs...to devour you and make off with the spoils.

You need a leader with enough credibility/reputation to look at others and not blink..and they need to know this. We have not had this in a long time here in America. To many professional politicians not leaders/shooters.



I still remember Stormin Norman giving a report before the press corps and he was asked how he intended to handle Saddam Hussein and in particular his vaunted Republican Guard.

Stormin's reply was..."I always wanted to do a Cannae."

I busted out laughing. For Cannae is the textbook battle, among other battles, studied so often by candidates in the Military Academies. At Cannae...Hannibal with some 25,000 men with his back to the sea...low ground..fought against some 95,000 Romans on the high ground. At the end of the day..some 95,000 Romans went down.

Hannibal is reported to have said to one of his generals..who asked "What will happen today??"

"There will be a hill here at Cannae today."

Stormin Norman's Hail Mary was a text book end run..as did Hannibal so do at Cannae so many many years ago.
Stormin Norman made his own hill in the desert...as did Hannibal. Stormin Norman did not forget the History.

Storman Norman told them openly what he was going to do..and did it. He was enough of a politician and poker player to know that Saddam's people did not know much history or the operational art. They are often one and the same.

While I did not know the particulars... of course....I did know what happened at Cannae as a record of history. Hence it was with humor I watched that news report and I have not forgotten.

But make no mistake..Storman Norman was also a shooter as history points out.

I like History ..but am aware that it takes a good and solid leader/Navigator ..that we do not repeat it so foolishly.

This is also how I know of the terrible terrible price paid by men with foolish leaders in the Great War of 1914 to 1918 and in "Flanders Fields."

We ourselves have paid the price and are continuing to pay the price..for our poor leadership.. and our people have to often lain "In Flanders Fields."

In Corregidor, In the Pacific Islands, In Europe, In Asia, and yes..in the Desert as well...the Kasserine Pass unto today.

I have red enough history to know the terrible terrible horrible weight which must have been on Ike's shoulders in the days leading up to 6 June 1944. His Generals and Admirals as well.

Well..I am certain buddah6 that you and the readers out here get the point. I tend to get a bit long winded at times.

No one fears Obama except our citizens, certainly not our adversaries! We have congress who has linguine for spines who use fear mongering as a leadership tool. Everything is a crisis but they go on vacation for five weeks while "ROME burns." What's the old saying? "Don't P's on my head and tell me it's raining." The US politician's credo!

You are correct here in this. Well said.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

Orangetom, You hit the nail on the head with your analogy of the battles of Flanders. It was truly bad leadership on the behalf of Foch and Haig. I can't remember the German general however...it's been too long since I studied military history. The horrible result was the number of young men that was pushed into the meat grinder. Many say it was the trench warfare but that wasn't the invention of WW1. That actually happened in our Civil War.

WW1 was where we first used the Air-Land battle doctrine and still use it today.

I think we're a little off topic...lol.

Did we win in Vietnam? On my first trip I sat on a hilltop for a year. After that year, I was still on that hilltop though the NVA/VC tried on three occasions to kick us off. As simply as I can put in "we won" my chapter of the conflict. Two years later, I was back flying an lightly armed observation helicopter. In my 12th month of my tour I was shot down and spent 3 additional months there. My unit was not ejected from its operational area because of the combat action. In both tours my unit never left the battlefield because of enemy action. We won our battles but Washington was only one responsible for the war. If it was lost, it was lost there.