My arrest hell after gang beat son

as far as i can see, and correct me if i'm wrong here, but the guy hasn't been convicted or gone to prison for this, he was arrested.

what planet are people on where they think that the police shouldn't arrest someone because they claim they only stabbed the other person in self defense!!! good god almighty, where are your heads at? whine if he's convicted, at the moment the police have done things as they should.

reply to post by on_yur_6


Well Sir President Obeyme and his AG want that weapon out of your hands, don't you want it to be like the UK here?

Imagine the beauty of a land where criminals rule the streets and the Police can only be troubled with your bumper sticker or freedom of speech!

Don't be a bad, right wing American Sir, lets turn over those weapons today!

Originally posted by on_yur_6
I'm glad you guys weren't my father.

I was just sitting here thinking the same thing. If I was married to a man who stood by on the phone with the police while my son or I were getting hurt, he'd have me to fear- not the government.

Do NOT let the government program you to think protecting your loved ones or engaging in self defense is a criminal act.

Some people just beg to be the victim of a police state. I truly feel for this man and will be rooting for him to get the charges dropped.

[edit on 7/27/2009 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Weither I have children or not, for one it is none of your busniess, so kee my family out of this.

Next time you bring my family into this I will regard this as a personal attack and forward it to the mods.

I rechecked the whole thread 3 times to find where he attacked your "family" personally.

He did not do any such thing, he simply defeated you in an argument hands down.

If your only come back is to threaten to call the mods on him for beating you in an debate, than you have clearly admitted he won the debate
He was using a hypothetical to prove your pov was not going to work in the situation.

If you do not wish to be in debates, you should rethink what ATS forums are about. 80%- 90% of the time it is about Debating.

Albeit we try to keep it in a friendly manner, and his post seemed pretty friendly to me...

"Cant we all just get along?"

Anyhow the Law has no reality, only SURVIVAL has meaning.

reply to post by pieman




Your life can be ruined over an arrest, the record of the arrest will always exist, try explaining to a potential employer how you were acquitted of stabbing someone.

These little thugs and the state have effectively ruined this mans record even if he is acquitted.

Originally posted by on_yur_6
reply to post by axehappy

 

It looks like this took place in the UK. There's your problem. If it was here in the USA I would've stepped outside with my 12 gauge shotgun and fired one round into the air.

You sir, are the type of Neighbor I would love to have!

If only everyone were like you, this world would be a very safe place!

reply to post by pieman


You forgot to add he was charged with attempted murder. Even being charged with thay can devastate a individuals life. Weither he is taken to court, or not.

Jesus, he should have done it six times as that is an even number.

reply to post by sputnik



Defending yourself is not against the law and the benefit of the doubt should never be given to the criminal as you seem to be doing, I hope you are never assaulted by five men, maybe then you will see the foolishness of your position.

If the homeowner had no prior history he should have been interviewed by a detective and the other people involved in the vandalism should be charged with the stabbing, that is what most departments and district attorneys do, when someone commits a criminal act and others are injured as a result of that criminal act the individuals responsible for the event that triggered the injury are held responsible.

I guess you wanted him to make some appetizers for the five thugs that were trying to beat his son in law to death?

I am sure you have been much happier to hear that the mans Son In law was pronounced a vegetable at the hospital while the little thugs went of to a year year sentence you bleeding hearts are so fond of.

Maybe next week they would have broken in and raped his wife or daughters, I am sure you you would be here spewing the same nonsense if he dared protect them against that.

reply to post by AshleyD


Yes thats great, I guess they would watch their Sons get beaten to death!

I wonder if the would watch from the doorway or from behind a window.

I tell you, this is the most cowardly generation mankind has ever seen!

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


How in the *** are you going to stab someone in the achilles tendon, especially inside a group of 5 people? You're just going to get kicked in the head or something and then gang-stomped by 5 people.

I don't doubt that it'd work but it sounds impossibly to pull off.

Plus, it's not as if you can expect a random dude to know to do that and/ or remember to do it.

About the MMA stuff, sounds like you missed the point. The entire point is that it's not close to real and people still go berzerk in the cage all the time. In a real situation vs 5 people, it's absurd to criticize the guy for doing things that don't sound rational like stabbing a guy 5 times.

As for the rest of your post, the UFC is not all MMA. There have been plenty of no-rules (literally) bare knuckle MMA tournaments and aside from headbutts and nut shots, it looks pretty much exactly the same as normal MMA. Eye gouges are too difficult to aim to be effective on a resisting opponent. Biting a tendon in an armbar? lol... First of all, the position of an armbar makes that impossible. Second, um, you're in an armbar lol your arm will get snapped before you could even try it if you could do it. As for the ball grabbing, I have a youtube video in my bookmarks where some ninja guy tries that then immediately gets his arm snapped in half via americana.

Groin strikes work. Groin grabs just put you in position to lose an arm (literally).

[edit on 7/27/09 by RedDragon]

We don't know WHY he stabbed him five times, but I would venture that the teenager put up a good fight and the father was just trying to stop him. It's not that easy to stab someone or for one stab wound to stop an attacker.

What this reinforces is that the cops really aren't on our side (but we already knew that).

If someone attacked my son, I would not hesitate to leave them either beaten, stabbed or shot nearly half to death. I'd have no intention to kill them, but I would do everything to stop them.

If someone breaks into my house, and I fear for my life (which means I may not feel there is even room for a warning shot or reasonable conversation), and for that of my children or my family, I would not hesitate to blow them away.

-- Justin



[edit on 27-7-2009 by CUBD1]

Why is it important to distinguish between the common law and statutory defences?

If the victim strikes an attacker in self defence, he could contend at common law that he was using reasonable force to defend himself. He could also contend that he was using reasonable force to prevent a crime from being committed, namely an assault against himself. This second argument is the statutory defence.

In the statutory defence, a person is permitted to use reasonable force to prevent the commission of a crime, in circumstances where he cannot so avail himself at common law. For example, if a person uses force to prevent another from supplying a controlled drug, he cannot rely on the common law defence and the statutory defence will therefore apply.

Source


[edit on 27-7-2009 by Laurauk]

reply to post by samhouston1886


if you are brave enough to stab some kid in the chest five times you might be brave enough to face the consequences, "boo hoo, the police are making me go to the station because i behaved like it's 1886". grow up, if my family were attacked i'ld go all in, and have, but i certainly wouldn't be crying to the papers because i had to answer for my actions afterward.

Originally posted by anonamousantichrist
things like this make glad that i live in a "stand my ground" state.
second line.

Do know which states are and which are not? I'd like to see a list. I assume Texas is one of them.

-- Justin

www.usatoday.com...

Florida is #1, woohoo!!

A year after Florida became the first state to allow citizens to use deadly force against muggers, carjackers and other attackers, the idea is spreading. South Dakota has enacted a similar law, Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels plans to sign such a measure today, and 15 other states are considering such proposals.

Dubbed "Stand Your Ground" bills by supporters such as the National Rifle Association, the measures generally grant immunity from prosecution and lawsuits to those who use deadly force to combat any unlawful entry or attack. Several states allow people to use deadly force in their homes against intruders; the new measures represent an expansion of self-defense rights to crimes committed in public.

It appears most states still have the "Duty to Retreat" understanding unless you are "inside" your own home! I think this is ridiculous if you see somebody being harmed in the street. It is impossible to retreat from 5 thugs!

reply to post by samhouston1886


Come on mate, that's a bit OTT.

I'm simply saying that they can't just give him a pat on your back and say 'on your way.' Don't forget that at least one party will be outright lying to the police on their arrival and they can't be expected to work out what's happened when they get there.

The purpose of the arrest is to take the man to the station for a formal, recorded interview - nothing more. Once this has taken place the police then decide on the appropriate action to take. The fact that they let this guy go so quickly is a strong indication that they believe he was justified in his actions - time will tell i guess.

I'm not saying his actions were wrong - none us know enough about this particular situation to make that judgement.
I'm certainly not saying that he in any way deserved any injury to himself or his family.
I believe i even tried to justify the 5 stabs ( see 'scared witless ).

All i'm saying are these 2 things


1. The Police have no choice but to arrest these guy - even if only to get an official statement

2. If you carry a knife or take a knife into a situation like this, you have to accept you may end up stabbing somebody

First off the son was silly to go out there against 5 guys. Who was he a kung fu ninja?

Secondly, if my son was getting his ass kicked both my husband and I would go out and defend him. I am a small woman but I wouldn't let my son get hurt by 5 thugs. I wouldn't have a knife but I would use anything to beat someone if I have to, anything can be a weapon if you try. (those that say baseball bats can't have never properly used one)

And last but not least, the police are not the judge and jury. They are the police. A person was killed, the one that did it needs to go to jail and be charged. He's an adult, this isn't a surprise to him. I wouldn't want the police to decide who does and doesn't go free. That is what a judge and jury is for, and they will decide his fate. If he is a true parent he will live with his fate knowing he protected his son regardless of the cost.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


Well let's just blame the family for not planning to one day be assaulted on the door step of their own home by a group of thugs who were breaking into their vehicle /sarcasm

Yes, I would agree that a letter opener to the chest would be considered a killing blow. I also consider 5 unarmed people, kicking my son in the head to be killing blows. So does the person being beaten by 5 people have no right to defense by the same amount of force being used against him?

I can assure you, if something like this happened on my door step, the police better bring a body bag and some crime scene tape.

What is wrong with people today? We blame the victims for standing up for themselves? Violence begets violence. Have we as people become so passive that it is considered best to just allow someone else to beat on you until they are finished? If this man was beaten to death, people would be saying, "Why didn't someone do something?". You can not have both ways. Life does not work that way. I have a news flash for you.... if a mob (and yes 5 people against one is a mob) attacks you, I can promise you they do not have your best interest at heart. That mob will not care about your well being and you would be a fool to care about theirs. Situations like this are a matter of simple survival, and I pray that you never find yourself in a similar situation because your chances of survival are slim at best.

When it comes to self defense you are either the person in the papers who should have done something, or you are the person in the papers who did do something. You can decide for yourself who you want to be, I know who I am.

I do not think that you will have any sort of arrest record if the charges are dropped? You are confusing an arrest record for a conviction record. If the accused is found innocent of the crime then they will not have a permanent record saying that they were arrested for stabbing someone.

Unless I am wrong about how the law works? I was under the impression of innocent until proven guilty? That there is usually a trial and court hearings to determine if the arrest charges stick or if they are dropped?

Maybe it is different in England?