Originally posted by Bearack
This is a prime example of why they need stronger gun laws across the pond.

I wish I could easily move across the pond.
Move over to a place where people are actually ENCOURAGED to defend their family and property.

Well... until Obama takes all your guns away...

Most times the law is completely inadequate and you do need to protect what you hold dear. This man deserves a reward for what he did there should be more like him. One day God willing I'll have a family and if so I will protect them to my last breath. two thumbs up for this guy.

I wonder if this was truly the first time this gang had threatened the son...or if it was the first time they had been in the neighborhood threatening people.

Where I live here in Northern California we have had a fast escalating problem with gangs, drugs and many forms of robbery. It has gotten so bad where I live (45 minutes north of San Francisco / Bay Area) that the police have had to throw money into renting a secondary building to house a force just to deal with it and traffic crimes that are part of it.(auto break in’s and the like; as the traffic problems. )
Needless to say this is money we DON’T have, but we have no choice at this point. People are getting jumped and beaten for no apparent reason other than to just do it.
Our neighbors son was jumped leaving a upscale bar and grill by a group of 8 teen’s and although he gave them what for it wasn’t with out harm. He had to be taken to the emergency room for “severe” internal injuries, a concussion and fractured fingers. He ended up in bed for almost 3 weeks unable to eat or move. The only thing he could remember about the whole thing was that the one who bruised his kidney’s liver and fractured his ribs by kicking him sideways, was yellow shoe laces. Turned out it was a trade mark of a rather large local gang of punks.(they call themselves that)

These types of crimes with “gangs of young folks” attacking people is escalating all over. It is also not just contained to a person getting jumped. It has gotten as far as them getting a group of young people together and trying to break in people’s homes WHILE they are IN THEM.
My family is so far living proof as well as many of our neighbors we have come to find out. Two homes around the corner from us where trashed to the tune of 100,000+ USD.(I found out one was done by the son of the lady because it was going into foreclosure which made that all the worse :down: )

For the first time in two years I was finally able to leave the house and go camping for a whopping two days.( I was really sick from a broken blood vessel in my head that made me start having serious seizures again) We came back home only to find that although our neighbors had been watching the house someone had broken in! They tagged the garage stole some stuff out of the fridge, some clothes and my epilepsy medication.(that one had the local hospital alerted due to the fact that they are so strong they can stop the heart of a person who doesn’t have a severe seizure problem. If they get someone in for a drug over dose they now have to run an emergency test to make sure they don’t have MY med’s in their system. OHH the guilt of leaving them out while I left!)

We had the police out and they where only able to get partial prints that wouldn’t stick in court yada yada. Well since then they have tried to get back in WHILE WE HAVE BEEN HOME! It has been five times+ now that they have either tried to jimmy my back door open with screwdrivers or flat out open the front door by shaking the handle and slamming on the garage etc. You name it! I am being awoken in the middle of the night to some idiot trying to push in my METAL front door!
Our cats that we had originally thought ran away are feared to have been killed; as when they broke in they tried to kill my miniature Fox Terrier. To make the cat situation easy to understand we live in a family neighborhood and when many people have to move they leave behind their animals. We are not one’s to sit by and watch the poor thing’s starve or get sick etc and as such we take care of them. We had at last count 6/7 (one was in and out) that we where looking after till we could find someone to take them. They ALL went missing in a matter of 4 weeks; duration of this starting as a matter of fact. During this time I figured we where just being messed with by kids. As some of you know I confronted a group of younger teens and ran them off the old west way if you get my meaning. Well it look’s like maybe they got the older one’s to come back and help out!
The skill involved in the attempts to get in my home has been far out of the reach of a mere teen. It is to the point that my children won’t sleep unless my husband or I are awake and their eating habits have gone down the toilet in the worst way due to the stress of them coming to the house all the time now! :down:

I can see how this man reacted with such a clear eye that it scares me! I have been told not to be afraid to use my shotgun or my newly acquired hand gun if they get inside and if I blow them out the door by God drag their “arse” back IN feet first all I need back in the door is their feet! I can tell you that for the first time in my life I am really scared, I have never shy’d away from a fight to defend myself or my family. BUT defending in a way to make sure we can just “get away” not being trapped in my home defending the small area from an onslaught is a HUGE difference.
Maybe it is because I have children now. I am not willing to risk it. Not sure; but I can tell you that if a group of thug’s comes back yet again and does try and attack my family I won’t be using a “knife”. If need be I WILL go to jail to keep them safe! I have already set up or them to be taken elsewhere and cared for till I get out!

It isn’t going to look to good for them in court either! SINCE I have many call’s and meetings to our local community service officer and have “”HAD HER OVER AND DOCUMENTED”“ the things they have already done.(HINT HINT) If they tag it; report it and get picture’s; if they break it; report it and get pictures; if they attempt to break in or harm your animals or even family report it and get pictures and hard core proof. NO EXCEPTIONS. It is the only way that the police force can help to “defend” you if you are forced to “defend” yourself while they are on the way!

I can understand that there are hordes of people out of work and hurting etc. but gangs of thugs taking advantage of people more and more because of it or as an excuse can NOT be allowed to continue on any continent period. If you are being harassed etc. Have a “PRIVATE” off the record talk with an officer. If need be they will keep a “running tab” on what has been happening to you and yours. If the time comes where you are FORCED to defend your family; you will have proof that it isn’t something out of the blue!

I know deep down none of us really wants to cause serious bodily harm to another being. But if we are forced into that corner and it is the only way out it is best to have proof that it isn’t something that has “just” happened out of the blue.

if i saw a gang of 5 beating my son, i wouldnt stand there & watch, ide have to do some thing, & thats where things get dangerous, at that point anger at whats going on, what if any weapons are you holding or have near at hand, how violent is the situation, if you & your family member have no way to stop the situation or escape the situation then i think a lot of people will do what ever it takes untill you can escape or force an end to the situation,
im not saying stabbing some one 5 times is the answer but i dont know how far ide go in a similar situation. especially if i thought my sons life was in danger.
i have no sympathy for the gang of 5, they made the choice to go 5 against 1
real hero`s

The scum teenagers got what they deserved. Vandalising other people's property and then kicking the defenders in the head?! They should be hanged in public!

Originally posted by pieman
the son in law should have called the cops, not tackled the vandals, the father should have called the cops, not stabbed a kid five times in the chest.

And what... watch your son get the pulp beat out of him for 15 minutes before the police arrive? The police exist for a reason, but when time is of the essence, what's wrong with taking matters into your own hands?

Although I do agree that stabbing someone five times seems excessive.

I'll tell you all something from personal experience..

I took my dog for a walk one night, as I did every night.
I never bothered to lock the door, as my girlfriend and children were in the house, and I was never gone longer than 10 minutes.

10 minutes later, I got home to a police car sat outside my house.

I walked in to my g/f crying, panicked, and was told that three men had entered the house with metal bars and threatened her. Just walked straight in through the front door, bold as brass.

They'd stolen my wallet, which had very little cash in it.

Fortunately, she wasn't hurt, and said that she'd (bravely, IMO) tried to fight them off with some (LOL) knitting needles she had.

I stormed out the house looking for these guys, with the police close behind me telling me not to do anything stupid!


I told one of the officers that if I'd have been home I would have killed at least one of those men before they had a chance to do anything.

He told me that I could only use 'acceptable force' and that meant I could restrain or chase off the intruders. Not kill them.

If I hit them with a household object like an iron, or something close to hand, and they died... that would be self defence and I'd probably get off... so long as it was one hit, and accidental death.
If I pounded them to a pulp with it, then it was intentional.

He then said if I were to use a proper weapon and kill or seriously injure them, it would be me that got in trouble, so I should not go and purchase any weapons due to fears that this could happen again.

They had metal bars... I'm not allowed to use a weapon...

[edit on 27/7/09 by axehappy]

[edit on 27/7/09 by axehappy]

Over the years, I've worked a few club security jobs to make ends meet. I have been head of security for a couple of clubs. One incident fits in perfectly with the discussion.

A man came through the door with a gun in his waistband, bypassed the doorman, who was afraid to confront the man, and walked to the middle of the club and started look around as if he was looking for someone.

I had the manager call the cops and retrieve the parking lot security. He was an armed off duty police officer. The man was obviously agitated so I went to confront the man. I asked him if he was a police officer. He told me no. I told him you cannot bring your gun in. He told me to mind my own 'f'ing' business. At which point I smacked him across the face with the asp baton I had palmed.

He hit the ground, I grabbed the gun, along the way I smacked him a couple of more times with the baton.

We later found out he intended to kill his ex-wife and her boyfriend. He had a previous felony for drugs and DUIs. The pistol was stolen from the home of a sheriff's deputy from another county.

The man's mother, a local realtor, tried to get the DA to prosecute me because her 'baby boy' lost three teeth and got a broken nose. His oldest brother fortunately got her to calm down. The DA wasn't going to pursue charges anyway, but the lady had it in for me for awhile.

I am sure some of the folks here think I acted excessively. To that I say, HECK yeah I did! And I'd do it again if need be! I've been a paramedic, worked EP/PP, and been a bouncer for most of my adult life. I've also done a stint LE (PT gig).
The one thing I've learned, there's excessive force, ie tazering a non violent suspect then beating them senseless. Then there is 'excessive force' when an officer/security/civilian, caught up in the moment of being assaulted, has to fight for their damned life and goes too far. And while it might be too far in the eyes of people in Ivory Towers, well, wait until you are faced with the same situation then we'll talk.

I read the article. If the story is true those punks should be sent to jail for years. At least 10!

The man is a freakin hero, if the events unfolded the way the paper said they did. Bravo! Freakin Bravo!

10 YEARS!!

Until the situation is sorted out, the police wouldn't necessarily know or believe the testimony of one group of witnesses over another.

What the police did know was that there had been a stabbing and who had done the stabbing.

After this mess is sorted out, hopefully the charges will be dropped.

Personally, I think that the teenagers should be brought up on charges of attempted theft and/or assault. I think that the home owner should be set free and charges dropped.

In reply to the posts saying he went to far with 5 stab wounds when one would suffice...You have obviously never been in a fight (not that that's a bad thing, but your comments reflect ignorance on this subject).

For me, its a switch (that only gets pulled in defense of myself or loved ones) when the switch is on you have to become an animal.. Or you will lose. Its as simple as that.

You don't go in there with the mindset "Ill just stab him once, that will deter him..".

You fight till its done, then you count the wounds..

I really don't understand how Mr. Philpott could have responded any differently. If you read the article it clearly shows the state of mind of the "thugs" in question.

We went outside. The teenagers were drunk and one threatened to kill me and burn the house down.

That is a clear threat to life and home, not just Mr. Philpott overreacting.

Alex ended up on the ground with all five yobs on him, kicking him in the head and stomach. I screamed for Colin and he came out, barefoot and half asleep. He ran back in and grabbed the first thing he saw, a letter opener, and confronted the boys. In the blink of an eye, the lads attacked Colin and I saw one stumble into the road.

Mr. Philpott confronted these thugs with a letter opener. Clearly he was frightened for his family's safety.

In my opinion the real problem is with the 5 young men who put themselves in harm's way by vandalizing his work van and assaulting his son. I believe the responsibility falls on those committing the crime, not those defending their family and property.

Here is my take on a personal level.

I am small enough compared to teenaged boys and men, that if I have to use force to stop them I'm not stopping until they can't get up to come after me.

Seems reasonable to me.

There is no way under the english judicial system that this man will be cleared at trial, he will be charged with either murder or manslaughter, here in england we are not allowed to defend our property or our family, as soon as we do, we are the criminals, these scumbags are running riot round our streets because they know there is nothing that we can do about it!