My arrest hell after gang beat son

duplicate.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by on_yur_6]

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by on_yur_6
reply to post by axehappy

 

It looks like this took place in the UK. There's your problem. If it was here in the USA I would've stepped outside with my 12 gauge shotgun and fired one round into the air.

You sir, are the type of Neighbor I would love to have!

If only everyone were like you, this world would be a very safe place!

I actually live in one of the safest cities in the USA. Very pro-gun with our laws here. The criminals that can still partially reason know that many here are armed. My state spells out that if any person threatens bodily harm on you and you fear for your life, you have the right to use deadly force. If the authorities wish take you to court and lose the case they also have to pay for your money and time spent defending yourself.

I also hope this man walks away from this nonsense with nothing tarnishing his record.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by on_yur_6]

Originally posted by serenesupreme
A lot of you people seem really trigger happy...like you are just waiting for the chance to use your weapon on someone...

No it's not about being trigger happy. I just have no problem pulling a trigger if someone is kicking my son's head in!

Originally posted by Bombeni
In the US only about 80-100 years ago this would not have been an issue whatsoever. Men wore their guns on their side and protected themselves and their families. The only people who were prosecuted were the ones who shot people unprovoked or in robbery etc. You could even shoot someone for horse stealing, which was a little too much.

Now, the criminal has MORE rights than the law abiding citizen. People have had it up to their eyeballs with thugs and punks.

He shouldn't even go to trial imo, but if he does he should claim temp insanity and be acquitted.

I'm still amazed at how many Americans honestly believe this fantasy. Men didn't "wear their guns at their sides" unless they were either in a dangerous profession or criminals.

And the police would still haul you in for shooting someone, because as others are trying to nail through the heads of some here, it is the court's job to decide guilt not the police.

If he stabbed the hell out of a kid, yes, he needs to be arrested and arraigned. Yes, there should be charges against him. And then he should be found not guilty by means of self-defense.

Of course, attendant with the mythology of everyone running around with guns and the social decay fantasy of criminals having more rights, comes a belief in vigilante justice and acceptance of the police as ultimate legal authority.

Way to go.

there are alot of people in prison that have been falsely accused.

only the DNA cases get dissmissed, if you falsely accused and its not a DNA case your screwed...

[edit on 27-7-2009 by werk71]

Just a comment on arrest records being expunged.

I know (Since I often make queries into the NCIC and State Systems) that once a record is expunged it is indeed gone.

If you were arrested and circumstances allow you to have your record purged (ie, charges dropped, etc) then it is up to you to seek out your states requirements and fill out the proper paperwork.

If not it will remain there for future employers to find out about.

Contact your State Bureau of Criminal Identification for the proper procedure.


Edit: Local agencies may still have a record of your arrest on file. Background checks from employers do not include these files but Federal jobs, ie post office, military, may ask for them.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by SwatMedic]

Sounds like justified defense to me. A person coming to the aid of another that is clearly in harms way. Five people versus one their intentions are clear. They are all damn lucky they all didn't share the same fate.

I remember a law that went something like this if a crime is being committed in the persuit to justice is added to the perf...
Example... if a cop has a wreck that results in say a death, the person he was chasing gets charged for homicide etc... Im sure there is a lawyer in here some where who would know better than I...

So in this case it would be Suicide... 5 times over... or five counts of suicide...


[edit on 27-7-2009 by BornPatriot]

[edit on 27-7-2009 by BornPatriot]

Originally posted by BornPatriot
I remember a law that went something like this if a crime is being committed in the persuit to justice is added to the perf...
Example... if a cop has a wreck that results in say a death, the person he was chasing gets charged for homicide etc... Im sure there is a lawyer in here some where who would know better than I...

So in this case it would be Suicide... 5 times over... or five counts of suicide...


[edit on 27-7-2009 by BornPatriot]

[edit on 27-7-2009 by BornPatriot]

2 of my friends got killed by a cop chasing a perp, they were following the perp for 1/2 hour, then the persuit began, they could have pulled him over, they knew who the perp was the whole time.. perp took off and went through red light at 60 mph and t-boned my friends car..

the cop though my friends were in a gang and kept asking them what gang they were in while they were bleeding to death on the road, told them he wasnt gonna call ambulance if they didnt tell about their gang.

they both died cause the cop didnt respond to their Injuries, they were not in a gang, they just wore baggy cloting and baseball caps. actually both were straight A students.

the cop never got in any trouble.

Its too bad this didnt happen in Texas, the teens would have been shot dead, the father would be sipping coffee at the local sheriffs dept. and his son and property would be safe and sound. The only thing to do with idiots who engage in mindless violence is to put them down like rabid dogs. If the parents of the teens are sad and angry then maybe they should have been better parents.
This guy should get a medal and the key to his city.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by johnnyflip]

[edit on 27-7-2009 by johnnyflip]

Sometimes you have to screw the law, screw the liberal mindset.

I'll take out a gun if this happened. If someone wants to call the police fine, because I know that it takes then 15 minutes to get there. And in that time, somebody's gonna get hurt.

I read through this thread and tried to step back and consider what would be the solution if one was to be in the situation of the family. I have to admit at one time I would have run out with some weapon in a panic response to the situation, probably still would in the heat of the moment, but heres another way.

If the guy and his family had no fighting skills like most people dont (many people have talked a good fight in this thread but realistically against 5 people your in deep crap), then they would be better planning ahead for a scenario where somebody comes on their land causing damage. Heres a good way,

Never ever leave the safety of your home, make sure your family knows not to go out if they even slightly suspect trouble. that way no one is put in harms way, ( the car can be fixed, people cant).

Set up a surveillance cam on your property, most thugs will stay clear of it unless they are really stupid ( So if your camera is is plain view and somone still causes trouble be worried cause those guys really dont give a damn, even more reason to stay indoors).

Immediately call the authorities so they know whats going on, that way if something does escalate you have shown you were the one in need of help (the defender), and obvioulsy if they try to enter your house you should be in a position to attack them with whatever weapon is handy as you have covered your ass with all the above.

Put all the above stuff into place and forget about worrying, just know that everyone knows what to do if a situation arises.

Big problem with sociecty nowadays is there is no community left, most people only care about themselves and their own property. If people communicated more they could help each other in times of need. If all your neighbours heard something going on outside on the street and all came out they would be no 5 against 1 or 2 scenario. The bunch of thugs could have been apprehended, effectively you could kick the crap out of them and say they had done it to themselves with the support of the rest of the street to back you up.

Plain and simple... you screw with my family, the onus is on you! Here in the States, depending on which state you live in, you have the right to defend yourself and your property up to and killing the perp. (check your state's revised code)

reply to post by axehappy
I would've shot each one of those thugs right between their peepers BUT just ONCE each. That way, precluding excessive force

Read through this entire thread, because i'm interested in these topics.
Was interesting to see peoples responses. I would like to clarify again, that the boy did not die. In fact I think it was rather nice of the man to only use a letter opener. This may be a long post..... try to read it as I'm bringing up points which havent' been discussed yet.

I don't care about the law, or what the law says. I care about reason and logic. These 2 things as we all know, don't go side by side.
I think alot of people here..... are unaware of what it means to be hurt.


Those who are unaware, are guilty of the same unawareness I feel that many of these teens also have about what it means to be in a life or death situation.

What it means to go up to a man and his family and threaten their lives.
( Make no mistake, there WAS cause for this family to believe their lives were in danger )

This all comes down to an idiotic culture which affects many youths today.
These days it is cool to get drunk, to party, to get into a fight, to have sex in public toilets. To treat the general public, and people you don't know, like dirt. To have mates which have your back, even if you are in the wrong.

I don't know how or where this started. It did not exist in this form many years ago. It does not exist in certain places around the world. But it is a product of todays culture.

In Japan, you don't have this blatant disregard for peoples property, or random beatings. Sure there are still bad people there, and it may happen a little. But it is not a part of their culture.
They are disciplined, and shamed. It is not acceptable to do these things, and you will be looked down upon, and ignored.

On the other hand, if you do these things in certain other countries you will be told you are wrong by one half of society, but you'll be told you're cool by another part of society. By the part that matters the most to you - Your friends, and their friends, and everyone else within this particular widespread culture.

They have no sense of honor or shame, apart from what the people within their own group think of them. That is all that matters to them.
We can debate over what the right thing to do was, because apparently, we care about them. But they do not care about us, and they would not do the same for us.

These teens have little experience as to what it means to be seriously hurt, or in any real danger. Why?
Because
A) They often travel in large packs. This offers individual protection.
B) People often will not fight back for obvious reasons. The law, or fear.

Pain is a learning process, it teaches you. You grow up from it.
You need it when you're young. If you're stupid, you get hurt.

We have taken away the learning process from these teens, and we're protecting them from the rational, logical justice they should be receiving.

A knowledge of pain and retribution. Nobody does ANYTHING bad willingly with the knowledge of a high possibility of retribution. THIS is why teens are behaving like idiots, combined with the culture that it is ok to do so.

Guns are not teaching youth anything. You don't learn from a gunshot to the head. You're dead and all learning stops. The previous thoughts of a youth wielding a gun is that they are most likely invincible. Gun owners often have a very short time to learn anything, before the class is over.

I had more thoughts but I forgot them, since I'm hungry. Lunch time

That the Litigiousness of our society has reached an extreme no one can deny...

But you need to be smart these days

In most places in the West, using a knife against non weapon wielding or lightly armed opponents is considered a step too far.

Some one posted early on and said he should have used a Baton... that person was correct

A blunt instrument against multiple attackers in a clear case of assault might have been let go...prior to court, using a blade upped the ante...

you can get away when assaulted with a single step up fist to blunt, blunt to knife, knife to gun... so your actually given the capacity to up the ante if attacked (although frowned upon) you just can't up it too far.

He will probably be let off in court without actual jail time...

as the law would see this, the son was at fault for leaving the house and entering a fray

as I understand the circumstances... he initiated contact physically by going outside Rather than summoning the police from inside where he was.... safe

The next step, dad coming out with a blade, ups it enough to bring him in for a criminal charge...which given his reputation and after an expense he will get off of...


I DON'T LIKE IT... but you have to call the cops if someone gets physical... they don't want you handling it yourself...

This includes domestic disputes... even if your a man and a woman assaults you, you better if you have the capacity or it's not a lethal assault call the cops not physically confront her or restrain...

It comes down to a simple thing, you need to look to avoid the fight to every possible ability to do so or they will charge you too...

BEEN THERE, not defending it... statistically it saves lives and everyone has equal rights right? lol whatever...

IF someone is damaging your van or being stupid... or hitting you or freaking out and you CAN

Your supposed to call the cops and... as much as I like to kick peoples asses and happen to be pretty good at it...

It's not worth the grief to be macho and handle things yourself anymore... it's liable to cost you



As was explained to me in anger management class once...

accidents happen... it's not about weather you CAN handle it yourself or even if your right, as the line of thought goes, you shove a guy... he could land on a sprinkler and die...so call the cops and don't stoop to their level

and.... honestly as much as it sucks, it's kind of right

sooooo

Given a situation, I look to avoid/ call the cops if I can't / fighting is the last report and only if I absolutely have to...

sadly, this kid could have stayed in the house... Dad could have just used his fists...

He's got a good rep... he's going to get probation and anger management class... like I did lol and... you know, those classes suck... I mean they suck... boring and...half the guys there are genuine garbage and you have to hang out with them...

so for ... not avoiding ONE moment with violent jerks... your going to get week after week around violent jerks, maybe even a few weeks in Jail

so

what am I saying?

Don't run out your house over an insured van lol... don't react to every jerk and don't fight unless you have to...

Let the Cops handle it lol, be like that.... heck as I see it... if they want the job... let em do it right?

But seriously... don't fight unless your cornered or absolutely have to...

You'll win the fight then loose a ton of money and time and ... it gets really annoying, Trust me I know...

More than anything REMEMBER

In a society that is ruled by ultimate law... Everyone is a criminal.

There are those out there who are in and out of the system for a living, they might not know how to Read, but they are in the end more knowledgeable of the law probably than any "decent citizen"

So you have to think like a criminal in such a system in order to stay out of trouble...

In a society as litigious as ours... YOU are a criminal, from speeding to smoking to ... whatever ...you are surely guilty of something.

So you need to think like a criminal, know exactly how far you can go and get away with it or what will bring consequences or how you can trick the thugs into making the mistake...

or simply if you choose your own path... to be like them be unemotional and shut up about it and do it later

because that's what criminals do... they don't get all riled up and kill you, they come after you when your alone and no witnesses...


But you can't react and fly off and fall for that trap... you'll be the bad guy

In the more liberal ( I think many would call it conservative ) parts of the US - a killing that happens during a crime is the responsibility of the criminals. Doesn't matter ( legally ) if it was a cop's bullet or the attacker's...
Only if there was areason to believe no one was threatened could a grand jury, with good consience- seriously investigate ( much less charge ) a ' victim '.
Of course, I wasn't there... so, maybe I don't know all the facts .

its too bad the kid got hurt ( I assumed he lived ?) but maybe you shouldn't go around committing crimes at all. an "ongoing" problem too... where are these kids parents?

if these kids had gone inside the house to rob it/vandalize - they could have all been shot and killed by the homeowner - legally.

wake up call - even if your parents didnt teach you anything.

If a man can not defend his home and property then he is not master of his house and is but a servant of the government and as a servant can expect no better then is his lot. Why should a serf think he is a freeman with the rights to property and self defense.

These boys had no respect for his property because they have no reason to learn of the value of property and possession rights since they do not have those rights either. When the government does not respect the public like they are full freemen and not servants then the value of our perceived rights is eroded even among ourselves.

The true example that this man had no expectation or right to personal or property self defense was clearly pointed out by the police in this situation.

Enjoy your servitude position. The chains of a loving government are like the bonds of matrimony. You get screwed and it cost you all your stuff.