Wes Owsley discusses NASA and UFOs

reply to post by wesowsley


wesowsley said: "My definition of a "Secret Space Program." In my world this includes the following; Moon Bases, Bases on Mars, manned missions to Mars or other planets, alien contact and alien cooperation with our space program, UFO bases, USO Bases, Regular bases that belong to us but house alien craft."

Do you have any evidence (notice I didn't ask if you believed) of the above? Do you have any evidence for Moon Bases? Martian Bases? Alien contact? Alien cooperation with our space program(!)? UFO bases? USO bases? Regular bases that belong to us but house alien craft? If you have such evidence, will you share it with us and instructions on how to verify their veracity? Much appreciated. Jim will verify my sanity!

Originally posted by wesowsley
I am currently actively pursuing...UFO Activity over the Balkan Penninsula (Where I have a home in Varna, Bulgara). Historical evidence of UFO Sightings from the Thracian period through Roman and the Second Bulgarian kingdom periods. Russian UFO Research and sightings in the Ural Region. Expanding the sightings over the Gulf Breeze area to include sightings in Southern Mississippi and Alabama during the same period.

That would be excellent... as we have little access to info from that part of the world on current UFO research

My intention on going on Paratopia was to simply say...there is nothing to this, don't waste your research time, this is all bunk.

Ah well so you actively pursue UFO reports but Aliens, etc are all bunk. Well then I wish you all the best of luck with your message here at ATS... you will have your work cut out for you. At least you have set the tone for your contribution

I went on Paratopia because I believe those guys to be genuine seekers of the truth.

With a now made obvious bias to one side...

I did not go on the program to seek publicity. As someone on this thread was correctly pointing out, it would have been incorrect for me to accuse Mr. Oberg of seeking publicity now that he was out of the program, when I am doing the same thing. That's hypocracy. As Jeremy can atest, I have turned down the chance to speak on Coast to Coast, and several other podcasters have contacted me since my appearance and I have turned them down as well...for that very reason.

Alright I will grant you that you are not a publicity hound... time will tell that anyway... but it always sends up a red flag in my book when someone starts a presentation with a list of names that are on the opposite side of the fence and makes comments on the state of their mental health or similar issues...

I was surprised when Jim was in that list because most here consider him on YOUR side of the fence...

Welcome to ATS and as I say good luck with your mission

[edit on 18-9-2009 by zorgon]

Lets not drum this guy out of showing his face around here more often, lol. We need tools like this at our disposal to bounce stuff off of. Sometimes, you can ask people like Jim and Wes indirect questions and their answers will lead you to a treasure of research-able information.

Wes, I know the link below is a long thread, and tedious to read through from the beginning....but I think it contains all the typical stuff that is said about the possible existence of a secret space program from both sides of the fence. Can you take some time to read through it and share your thoughts either in this thread to that thread?

Secret Space Program Zorgon Thread

(Part 2)

1. When in Russia with the space program, (Whether JSC likes it or not, LOL) you are there at the behest of and serve at the pleasure of the Ambassador of the United States and are therefore given either a TDY (Tour of Duty), or a PCS (Permanent Change of Station) to The American Embassy in Moscow. NASA badges in Russia are meaningless. I was hired because of my skill sets, out of MSFC (Marshall Space Flight Center) in Huntsville, Alabama to be in Russia. I was never really an employee of NASA in the USA. My particular career path has always been international in nature, and NASA needed an experienced IT Engineer, who had language experience, who could blend culturally, in Russia. So I said all that to say this...my badge was blue with a big green dot. If it matters. I never wore it...unless I was at the Embassy. Oh and if your interested...the big green dot...it meant that I had commissary privileges and could swim in the pool. Pretty exciting stuff, eh?

2. Nothing qualifies me to speak about what the navy may be doing in space now (Read the section: What I can talk about with authority). What I was trying to convey on the show was (I was actually speaking about the Army, not the Navy although Shep IS a SEAL (Jim will catch that), was I would hear about something the Army Space Command was supposedly doing, and at the time I could go ask the Army Space Command Astronaut in training at GCTC....

3. I don't talk about clearences...simply because its none of your business. Suffice it to say, I was running secure communications to the USA from Russian Military facilities and Secure corporate environments of Russian Aerospace contractors. At one time, I was responsible for about 20% of All Internet bandwidth leaving the Russian Federation. Let's just say...I was vetted.

4. Russians are very interested in UFO's. Most of the Russians I have had the privilege of working with in the space program would probably simply shrug off any questions because they take the phenomena as common place...sort of saying..."What about it." At least, that has been my experience.


Look everyone...this isn't rocket science (Forgive the pun). There are plenty of people outside of the space program/military who watch it like a hawk. You can find out just about anything these days. I am thinking of this. www.amazon.com...=pd_sim_b_3

Also, if you want to know what the pentagon is up to you should look in these two places...
www.dtra.mil...
and
en.wikipedia.org...

Unfortunately, the US Military is spread a little thin right now and aren't out exploring the galaxy. And I am not EVEN going to get started on resource utilization that would be incurred by a secret space program.

I am however also trying to say that there isn't a secret space program...yet. Privatization of Space is something we should all be watching out for and keeping an eye on.

Until next time...I am off to bed.

Ciao! (The Bulgarian one)



Thanks for the chance to interact with you all.

reply to post by zorgon


Not trying to accomplish anything here but what is the big deal with Bob Dean? Has anyone challenged his credibility? The man speaks volumes of total b.s. and I'm sure that if pressed he couldn't supply any evidence for his weird claims.

You should not have asked anyone for a photo of Bob Dean in uniform, all you had to do was go to google images and there he is in his uniform with sergeant stripes. I wonder if he was as weird while in the military and if people spoke behind his back.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by jritzmann
No it didn't smart boy, the OP wrote me and asked me to comment.

Hmmmm well we shall see... but if you ask me the whole thing smells of a setup

In my opinion, of course

Well I think in your world everything smells that way. It might be called delusion.

Originally posted by jritzmannIt might be called delusion.

Sigh... that may well be but you know what? ATS is (well was) THE place to explore such 'delusion' as you call it... One thing that has come of this is I now know exactly where you stand on things...

To Wes...

My intention on going on Paratopia was to simply say...there is nothing to this, don't waste your research time, this is all bunk.

Since its all bunk to you, there seems to be little point in asking you any questions... in fact you might as well write the owners to shut down ATS forums as most of the popular topics here are, as you say ALL BUNK, don't waste your time...

Why should those of us who are 'delusional' as Herr Ritzmann states believe YOU anymore than we would say Herr Oberg? And he has been fighting the battle for many years

reply to post by zorgon


I don't know what your aim is here, but you're clearly taking the passive aggressive approach towards these gentlemen. I really don't see the benefit to any of this, whether or not you agree with them.
Just sayin', we can throw stories, questions and theories at each other here, or we can revert to throwing crap at each other.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by mpriebe81]

Originally posted by mpriebe81
I don't know what your aim is here, but you're clearly taking the passive aggressive approach towards these gentlemen. I really don't see the benefit to any of this, whether or not you agree with them.

Well don't sweat it too much... your idol worship is intact And Jim and I have an 'understanding'... he likes to pick on me and turnabout is fair play. If the new kid on the block comes in to tell us all our research is pure bunk, he has to expect to take a little heat

reply to post by zorgon


Fair enough, i'm not all that familiar with any of these fellas so I was just calling it the way that I saw it. As far as idol worship goes, you're simply mistaking my pleasant and companionable demeanor for something else. Sorry 'bout the mix up, and I look forward to hearing a bit more in this thread!
And yeah, I suppose if someone were calling my research "bunk" I would probably take it to them a little bit too

[edit on 18-9-2009 by mpriebe81]

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
Do you have any evidence (notice I didn't ask if you believed) of the above? Do you have any evidence for Moon Bases? Martian Bases? Alien contact? Alien cooperation with our space program(!)? UFO bases? USO bases? Regular bases that belong to us but house alien craft? If you have such evidence, will you share it with us and instructions on how to verify their veracity? Much appreciated. Jim will verify my sanity!

I don't think Jim can verify your sanity in this case... seeing as you missed the fact that Wes's stance is all the above mentioned are pure bunk so why would he need to 'verify their veracity'?

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni
Gee. Or you could just listen to the episode where we very clearly state that we vetted him right at the beginning. What is the mystery here?

And this would prove what? Anyone can say anything these days... I prefer hard documents to someone just saying so

Go back and look at your posts. You were asking if even we vetted him. It's in the first 2 minutes of the episode that we address this.

Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni

Go back and look at your posts. You were asking if even we vetted him. It's in the first 2 minutes of the episode that we address this.

Your word alone...

I don't even know who you are.

(I just found out about your show recently)

No matter, Jim Oberg is satisfied with Mr. Owsley's claims with regard to his position and job.




[edit on 18-9-2009 by Exuberant1]

The sad thing about not replying to arrogant morons is that they'll then think they were right and that you "gave up" because you knew you were defeated, when the fact is... they're morons, more trouble than they're worth.

If it's true what you say, Zorgon, that ATS used to be a great place for talking about this stuff and isn't anymore, it's got to be because morons have overrun the joint. Could you imagine what would happen if people with brains--the silent majority, I hope--actually chimed in on these threads? Imagine if there were too many smart people to bully or move the goal post on? The morons--and I'm not naming names here, Zorgon, but the morons would be out of business.

This will be the last post I ever make to you until such time as I see your resume. What qualifies you to speak with authority on anything?

Enjoy the rebuttal, kids. I'm gonna go do something that matters.






[edit on 18-9-2009 by Jeremy_Vaeni]

Originally posted by Jeremy_VaeniCould you imagine what would happen if people with brains--the silent majority, I hope--actually chimed in on these threads?

Well the funny thing is... the only reason I still hang around here is because those silent majority are extremely supportive and have given me some awesome material in documents and leads...

What you fail to realize is that many would like to chime in, but just can't be bothered with the hassle of being called morons by self righteous people who think they know everything that is going on.

If what I say wasn't true ATS, would not enjoy the popularity it currently has. Do you really think people come here to listen to debunkers rant and call people morons? Really now...

Enjoy the rebuttal, kids. I'm gonna go do something that matters.

We will miss your constructive posts....

reply to post by Skeptical Ed


Quite the contrary. I don't believe that any of this exists. There is no evidence other than less than convincing testimony.

Now I'm really confused. What were we talking about?

Good Morning Jim,

I was referring to the lack of evidence for things like Moon Bases, Mars Bases, UFO Bases on earth etc.

What are we talking about? Well...on this thread it is, Mr. Owsleys definition of a secret (or 2nd.) space program. Nobody in 2009 thinks this way Mr. Owsley. This is so very 20th. century. So 1990's. You are right. There is no secret 2nd space agency with moon bases, bases on Mars, manned missions to Mars or other planets, alien contact & alien cooperation with our space program, UFO bases, regular bases that belong to us but house alien craft! (your definition)

All long gone into the paranoia days of Ufology. There is a new generation...new "centurians" in UFO research now. By your own admission, you are 'out of touch'...even ATS is new to you! Space interest in a military agenda is what we refer to in 2009 as a secret or 2nd space program. The very things you exclude from your definition! Do not worry a bit about anyone 'wasting their time' looking for aliens in caves on Earth or Mars. Bill Clinton is no longer president! ...& thanks for the history lesson & a peak into Jim Os background.

...and Z... don't worry cuz there are new ATS members every day with "the brains" to keep things fresh.
And Jim...of course this is a great promotional opportunity! (not to be missed.)

Originally posted by zorgon
Why should those of us who are 'delusional' as Herr Ritzmann states believe YOU anymore than we would say Herr Oberg? And he has been fighting the battle for many years

I don't think you're delusional until you write stuff like:
"the whole thing smells of a setup" - in relation to my posting in this thread.

I said, I was asked by a member to come post in it because it was referencing our show. I was wrong in that I thought it was the originator of the thread, it was "IgnoreTheFacts" who asked that I visit and respond. So I did, and alerted Wes to it as well so he could come speak with everyone interested.

I thank IgnoreTheFacts for even alerting me to it. There is no conspiracy or "set up", although Zorgon seems hell-bent to make one up to suit himself.

So, I'll leave the thread so there's no possibility that I'm "setting anything up".

I will say Zorgon's comment about Paratopia's "bias" being to one side is as absurd and uneducated a statement as the "setup" one. I've made it clear that I didn't agree with everything my guest had to say. So it seems pretty clear people will read and see what they want to. So, we'll continue on the path we've been with the show-which is rational discourse and discussion of topics and exploring the edges most won't.

Wes is capable of answering about his comments and positions on our show on his own.

But I'll lay money that like most other, possibly valuable community resources that come by this particular facet of an otherwise great website - a certain contingency will piss that resource off and lose it.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by jritzmann]