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Lockheed Skunkworks Engineer, Don Phillips Says UFOs are Real

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posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by starwatcher1
 


Thanks Starwatcher1.

It's such a shame it is the way it is. Let's hope it changes, that as the 'old guard' dies off, the new blood have a 180 u-turn and decide 'what the hell' and just let the truth out and see what happens, and soon.




posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
reply to post by warrenb
 


I hate to say it though, my gut feeling is that these creatures aren't friendly. They seem to have been around for a long time and seem only to show up when they want to impress the observer or intimidate them.


The general theory (of many) is that there is more than one type... or species of these critters. Accepting that universal diversity factors are similar to our own, then there may well be a number of different agendas flying over head.

Until we know for sure, we should probably apply an abundance of caution and NOT assume that ET is a benevolent, smiling creature who wants to help us usher in a new age of enlightenment and peace. On the contrary, if the rest of the universe is (again) in any way similar to what we know of the predator/prey relationship of life here in our corner, we should probably trust them as much as we do our own governments.

...



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:03 AM
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Lockheed Skunkworks Engineer, Don Phillips Says UFOs are Real
I have been a long time lurker. Hello Everyone!

I'm a healthy skeptic with an intrest in phenomenon. After reading through this specific thread, I could not stay on the outside any longer. My comments might be challanging to some, but I hope they will inspire more logical thinking.

Before my arrival to AboveTopSecret.com, I spend hours pour over available UFO data. What I have concluded is the follow:

(1) Roswell 1947's UFO crash was not alien, and I can prove it beyond a doubt.

(2) 95.5% of the UFO evidence is fake or missinterpreted information. Photos, videos, and anything else you can think of are missidentified.

(3) Aliens are equivelent to a moderday urban legend, which started out with a small piece of truth.

(4) I beleieve we have been visited, but we haven't been visited for many decades. When mankind was a more primitive species (technology), I believe we did have some kind of external contact. I don't believe we have been visited since the late 14th century.

I think Lockheed's Don Phillips is a liar. Even though it apears that he is telling people the truth, I think he is telling people what 'they' want to hear. People will believe in almost anything, but only if it matches their own personal feelings.

After reading several of the posts at this site, I'm hoping to chalange those UFO believers with some factual logic. Even though I want to believe myself, I have not seen any factual evidence. 95.5% of the evidence out there can be dismissed.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by Pathos
 


Uh, we're waiting... Anytime... How about now? Inspire me, Pathos.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


You know, i have a feeling that all of our theories around why they are here, are probably not hitting the mark.

I have thought along similar lines as you.

Now i think they are just here as a kind of long standing anthropology study, perhaps a guiding hand here and there too.

Graham Hancock et al, have long argued the case for ancient human cultures with advanced knowledge and technology, that for one reason or another was mostly lost to history.

Then we have the ancient Indian records, that tell of advanced weapons, flying machines and floating cities, of bases on the moon and on Mars, of battles and warfare on the same. These accounts are on the order of 10,000 years old +/- 1000.

If one studies the photo's of the moon and now Mars, to my eyes, the debris and remnants of aparent structures look as though there was a terrible catastrophy or war that tore them apart irrevocably, and we are seeing the result of the war or whatever it was in these images we are now seeing, despite official attempts to conceal.

What if, that is why they are here? Why they seem to have to been here for thousands of years?

What if they are the 'peacekeeping' force, that was assigned to monitor us as we rebuild ourselves and claw our way back up the ladder of progress.

Humans are (as a species) aggressive, murderous and frankly what most would think of as petty and childish with an unhealthy predisposition to war and killing.
It is certainly not beyond the realms of possiblity, that during our last technological and cultural height, we went out into space, and built bases on various moons and planets, which in turn led to cities and colonies.

What happened next? Would it not be possible that humans or factions within this ancient advanced human culture, decided to make war on another race? Our arrogance and elitism, led us to destruction. Almost brought us to extinction, and certainly sent us as a culture, back thousands of years, we are still a thousand or so years behind what we once were in 'our heyday'.

The ET's could then effectively be prison guards...or more acurately probation officers.
Have we changed in our attitudes to war and conquest in the last 10000+ years? Is it going the same way as before? You be the judge.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by spikey
 


This comes to mind:

"you never learn so much about a person's character, as when you hear them describe another's".

So you are good. And you are projecting that goodness onto the ET's.

That's fine, and hopefully you are correct. But consider motivation.
Something motivates all of us.

If they are here to save us, they could do a better job.

If they are here to study us, then they are slow learners, we're really not that complicated. They've had every opportunity to clone us, our animal and plant life, if that's what they're after.

So what motivates them to come here? Amusement? I doubt it.
Benevolence only? I doubt it.

Something is in it for THEM. Has to be.

Spikey, I like the way you think, and you seem to be a good teacher for me, in this area. I realize you are further advanced in thinking of all these things, so my questions probably bore you. you've been there done that.

But one thing please consider. The motivation for their being here is not completely selfless. We have to have something they want. We are feeding some need they have. It has to be.

Any conjectures as to what it might be?

Thanks for being here.
liw



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by Pathos
 


While it is very easy to call someone a liar, it is harder to prove that fact. It is always interesting to me the people that "come out of the woodwork" to challenge and flame others. The louder they flame, usually the more truth that is there.

I thank you for your post but why not start your own thread, especially with some much "evidence" to share.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Pathos
(1) Roswell 1947's UFO crash was not alien, and I can prove it beyond a doubt.


I think you're lying. You would have shown/demonstrated/explained or linked us to your proof if you had it. I'm sure you know what happens to people who make outrageous claims on here without any backing evidence.


And if you have some, enlighten me and the rest of us.

However I don't think you will, will you? You'll claim you cannot because it's a friend-of-a-friend's info, or your life is at risk or [insert escape clause here]. And that's because really, you don't have it.

But again, I'm happy to be proven wrong. Please, prove me wrong



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by guppy
reply to post by Pathos
 

Uh, we're waiting... Anytime... How about now? Inspire me, Pathos.

Sure. When it comes to the Roswell 1947 crash, do you guys remember this: www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Now look at this:
channel.nationalgeographic.com...

They are the same. At the end of World War 2 in 1945, the United States went into Germany and seized everything military. Horten 229's blueprints were brought over to the United States, and work was begun on a prototype. After two years of working on our own copy, the military decided to test fly the craft. During one of their test flights, the ship started to come apart. It violently crashed in Roswell, New Mexico on July 8, 1947. All crew members were killed or badly wounded. Since Groom Lake was monitoring the test, they rushed quickly to get the remains. Why the false lies and media story shift? Do you want to tell Russia what we are working on?

Known facts to prove my point:
(1) Horten 229's specs obtained by US - 1945
(2) Northrop YB-35 flying-wing bomber finally takes flight. - 1946
(3) Kenneth Arnold's Sighting - June 1947
(4) Roswell crash - July 1947

If you look at all of their designs, they are very close in being the same. Roswell, New Mexico 1947 was nothing more than a US air force test, which came to a horrible end by killing it's occupants. Nothing more.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by guppy
reply to post by Pathos
 

Uh, we're waiting... Anytime... How about now? Inspire me, Pathos.

Sure. When it comes to the Roswell 1947 crash, do you guys remember this: www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Now look at this:
channel.nationalgeographic.com...

They are the same. At the end of World War 2 in 1945, the United States went into Germany and seized everything military. Horten 229's blueprints were brought over to the United States, and work was begun on a prototype. After two years of working on our own copy, the military decided to test fly the craft. During one of their test flights, the ship started to come apart. It violently crashed in Roswell, New Mexico on July 8, 1947. All crew members were killed or badly wounded. Since Groom Lake was monitoring the test, they rushed quickly to get the remains. Why the false lies and media story shift? Do you want to tell Russia what we are working on?

Known facts to prove my point:
(1) Horten 229's specs obtained by US - 1945
(2) Northrop YB-35 flying-wing bomber finally takes flight. - 1946
(3) Kenneth Arnold's Sighting - June 1947
(4) Roswell crash - July 1947

If you look at all of their designs, they are very close in being the same. Roswell, New Mexico 1947 was nothing more than a US air force test, which came to a horrible end by killing it's occupants. Nothing more.


[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]


That is a theory and no where near proof and it hardly puts the whole Roswell Incident beyond any doubt.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by cainey

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by guppy
reply to post by Pathos
 

Uh, we're waiting... Anytime... How about now? Inspire me, Pathos.

Sure. When it comes to the Roswell 1947 crash, do you guys remember this: www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Now look at this:
channel.nationalgeographic.com...

They are the same. At the end of World War 2 in 1945, the United States went into Germany and seized everything military. Horten 229's blueprints were brought over to the United States, and work was begun on a prototype. After two years of working on our own copy, the military decided to test fly the craft. During one of their test flights, the ship started to come apart. It violently crashed in Roswell, New Mexico on July 8, 1947. All crew members were killed or badly wounded. Since Groom Lake was monitoring the test, they rushed quickly to get the remains. Why the false lies and media story shift? Do you want to tell Russia what we are working on?

Known facts to prove my point:
(1) Horten 229's specs obtained by US - 1945
(2) Northrop YB-35 flying-wing bomber finally takes flight. - 1946
(3) Kenneth Arnold's Sighting - June 1947
(4) Roswell crash - July 1947

If you look at all of their designs, they are very close in being the same. Roswell, New Mexico 1947 was nothing more than a US air force test, which came to a horrible end by killing it's occupants. Nothing more.


[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]


That is a theory and no where near proof and it hardly puts the whole Roswell Incident beyond any doubt.

What you are saying is that - Regardless about the matching dates and ship designs, I have no proof that Roswell was a US operation?


Wow! Outside of the obvious connections and facts, I cannot see how anyone can prove aliens were involved.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by Moraz
 


Hey, no problem Moraz..

It has to be said though, it's only what i think is probably so. It could be totally different.

But i think it's probably something along those lines.

Thanks for the thanks.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by Moraz
 


Hey, no problem Moraz..

It has to be said though, it's only what i think is probably so. It could be totally different.

But i think it's probably something along those lines.

Thanks for the thanks.


Well, I completely agree with what you said, the thing is that it is just a bit sad...

Let's hope some day we get to know the truth about aliens all that E.T. stuff. Let's hope it will be during our lifetime...


[edit on 1-7-2009 by Moraz]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Moraz]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Moraz]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


Well, thatnks for the compliments, but i'm just ordinary...no special knowledge or thoughts.

I like to look at this in 'the round'.

Like i said, i'm as frustrated as most people when it comes to this subject.

I'm so sick and tired of all the double bluffs, all the 'Oh...it's a weather balloon or Chinese lanterns' explanations from people in answer to posts by people who had seen something 'out of the ordinary' in their local skies.

I myself recently saw a groupimg of five, very bright orang/red/crimson lights over my town a month or so ago, reported it here in the hopes of someone else locally being on ATS and having seen the same thing.

All i got for my efforts, well not all, but the majority of replies were saying that it was probably Chinese lanterns, or small aircraft etc etc...everything it seemed, but ET craft. I've since had corroboration from three separate sources in my local area, who say they saw what i did, but on two different dates, and in different places locally.
The descriptions are not exact, but very similar...although one of the others, had reported that these lights doing very fast and sudden movements, outside of our capabilities. (i did not see fast or sudden movements)

I've looked at the night sky pretty much my whole life, even as a child, hoping to see something from 'out there' with my own eyes, but never anything until just lately. (i still don't know if it was something Earthly or otherwise).

My point is, regardless of what is shown, what is said, what is logical...there are still people who live thousands of miles away from you, who think they know better than you, what it was you saw...fifteen minutes before, with your own eyes.

Clever people eh?

I made a post just now, about some possible ulterior motives of the 'ETs'.

Perhaps we got warlike designs on another race, millenia ago, and got well and truly woken up to the fact, that we are not as big and as clever as we thought we were. Our 'punishement' may be isolation on this planet/solar system, stripped of our advanced technology and now we are climbing back up the ladder (again).

They could simply be here to observe that we do not get to a level or mindset that would threaten the other space races again.

Who knows..



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 



Like i said, i'm as frustrated as most people when it comes to this subject.

I'm so sick and tired of all the double bluffs, all the 'Oh...it's a weather balloon or Chinese lanterns' explanations from people in answer to posts by people who had seen something 'out of the ordinary' in their local skies.

I myself recently saw a groupimg of five, very bright orang/red/crimson lights over my town a month or so ago, reported it here in the hopes of someone else locally being on ATS and having seen the same thing.

All i got for my efforts, well not all, but the majority of replies were saying that it was probably Chinese lanterns, or small aircraft etc etc...everything it seemed, but ET craft. I've since had corroboration from three separate sources in my local area, who say they saw what i did, but on two different dates, and in different places locally.
The descriptions are not exact, but very similar...although one of the others, had reported that these lights doing very fast and sudden movements, outside of our capabilities. (i did not see fast or sudden movements)

I've looked at the night sky pretty much my whole life, even as a child, hoping to see something from 'out there' with my own eyes, but never anything until just lately. (i still don't know if it was something Earthly or otherwise).

My point is, regardless of what is shown, what is said, what is logical...there are still people who live thousands of miles away from you, who think they know better than you, what it was you saw...fifteen minutes before, with your own eyes.

Maybe you translated what you saw into something you wanted to believe. If we don't treat UFO sightings with skepticism, we begin to loose something about ourselves. My evidence is filled with actual events filled with historical facts, which occured around the time of Roswell. I present facts that can be looked up, verified, and touched. You present a religious experience, which aliens take the place of god or witches.

You saw 'lights' in the sky. Who said the military can't be creative? Its all about perspective. If some of the most powerful public video cameras on Earth can't get a clear shot at something ten miles away, you can't conclude that the 'lights' you saw (with your own eyes) are from Mars.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by badmedia
 
We already know some sightings of the F-117 were identified as UFOs before it was declassified, and they WERE in fact UFOs while they were a black project. If the UFOs seen more recently are really newer black projects, piloted by humans (and it seems quite logical to think some are), I'm not sure how friendly that species is, seems like mankind is capable of immeasurable love and compassion, or unspeakable evil like the holocaust. Quite a mixed bag, wouldn't you say?


Yes, I think it is almost impossible to know for sure. About the best we can do is think out different scenario's logically and try to pick out flaws.

For all I know, the "ET" we think of now is just humans from earth playing a game. And maybe real ET's will come along someday in the future, or maybe not at all. Maybe they are all working together.

It's all speculation really. And even among those in the "know", the lie is different at every level.

In general I tend to not think on the topic too much, and instead focus on right from wrong, and understandings that are actually useful and can be applied to our lives regardless of which turns out to be true. But it's fun to speculation and throw out some ideas every now and then.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by spikey
 


What you say isn't actually different from what I say. You can call them peacekeepers or whatever. Making sure we don't kill ourselves off and so forth. In function, it's pretty close to the same thing.

Some might call it a prison, I would more likely call it a school. Either way you don't get out until you learn how to act right, so there isn't much real difference there. I think the bigger question for me is if that is a personal thing, or if it's something all of mankind needs to do.

I think there needs to be a spiritual balance with the increase of technology, and mankind has not had any spiritual advancement for 1000's of years. It's been put on hold and even in reverse.

Since I was a kid, I could see that eventually technology would progress and exist to where any one person on the earth would have the power at any time to destroy the entire world. Now, think about how do we deal with that. Do we not allow these technologies to those people because of what they can do? How can you give someone who would do it such power? So, there are 2 basic directions this can go really.

You can deprive the people of such technology to make sure such a person doesn't get it. But then you are punishing the innocent people for the guilty. And you are putting much power into the hands of a few, and it's going to be even worse when the person who would do it when all had it get that kind of power. They'd push people around and such like we've seen in history. Wars and struggles will happen over that power, and at the very least corruption around it such as we have now. We try this system today really, it's not looking so good IMO.

The only way such a civilization could have such technology is for people to be more spiritual advanced and with understanding. Only if nobody would do such a thing and use such power in such ways could that kind of technology be justified in being given to the people. Anything less than that, and it's a ticking clock.

There is so many factors to take in, we could probably talk about it for hours.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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Regarding Roswell...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the event. Most people discount it outright. Others are led astray by television documentaries attempting to debunk it with swamp gas theories. But if you research Roswell enough, you will see that the heaping mounds of eye-witness testimony and amazing revelations from people like Philip Corso are too profound to discount outright. Even if you think Corso and Don Phillips are liars, what about everyone else that has come forward over the years with some form of disclosure? We're talking hundreds upon thousands of people.

Humans have been seeing things in the sky for thousands of years. There is mention of it in the Bible, we see UFO's in Renaissance art and ET evidence in Sumerian tablets. Regardless if you think Roswell happened or not, there's an overabundance of signs pointing to extra-terrestrial visitations that have been occurring since the dawn of time. If you refuse to believe it, that's your choice and I won't condemn you for it.

Personally, I believe that UFO's are real. I'm convinced Roswell happened. And I'm also convinced that some of these objects we're seeing in the skies are ours (reverse-engineered or otherwise).



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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Getting back to the topic in hand about technology and secrets being witheld from public availaibility, i can live with the truth about ailoens being withheld, i can live with the reverse engineering. But what i do find obscene is the possibility of cures for cancer being kept back. I think that is a crime against humanity. How many more people have to die due to cancer? I lost my Mother and friends to it. If what is being said about this is true then people should face court action and imprisonment. As to keeping back UFO's/Ailens etc there may well be a just cause for doing so. But not in the case of keeping back medical advancements.


Oh and i think we are ready for disclosure now.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by jlc767
Regarding Roswell...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the event. Most people discount it outright. Others are led astray by television documentaries attempting to debunk it with swamp gas theories. But if you research Roswell enough, you will see that the heaping mounds of eye-witness testimony and amazing revelations from people like Philip Corso are too profound to discount outright. Even if you think Corso and Don Phillips are liars, what about everyone else that has come forward over the years with some form of disclosure? We're talking hundreds upon thousands of people.

I normally agree with your opinion statement, but you cannot fight with factual evidence. When it comes to the National Georgraphic documentry, it doesn't make the connection with Roswell. If you follow the 'facts' from start to end, you will know that Roswell was not alien. All you need are facts. I'm sure the eyewitnesses saw something in which 'they cannot identify', but that doesn't mean the military cannot. Its all about perspective. Imagine if the headline said "United States military and German science has come together to produce the next step in aviation". Place that headline in a 1947 newspaper, and you get a public relations nightmare. We were very paranoid after World War II.

Stick with the factual evidence, and you will know the truth. Cross reference dates in our aviation evolution, and connect them to the sketch Kenneth created in 1947, and then be aware that Roswell occured only a few months after. Its logical and truth. Roswell was a US military experiement, which went horribly wrong during a test flight. Look over my evidence, do the research by cross referencing events, dates, and designs. Prove me wrong with facts. Someone witnessing an object in the sky is fact, but what they determine it was is not fact. Its perspective.


Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss
Getting back to the topic in hand about technology and secrets being witheld from public availaibility...

Oh and i think we are ready for disclosure now.

If there is any technology being withheld from the public, it was created by human beings and is being used for our security. When it comes to disclosure, it has already been done. Its not the government's fault that you don't believe that advanced technologies are man made.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Pathos]



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