If as so many people seem to believe, why have we never captured a ghost ?

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by Whine Flu
reply to post by randyvs

 

That's if you even made it to the fire!

Thats if the fire exists....you should try catching it in a jar

And to the Op, there plenty of evidence out there. You're just looking in the wrong places...obviously. Maybe you should switch on your BS meter so you can determine the fraudulent stuff from the real evidence

And just because someone dies, it does not mean that they will turn into a ghostly entity. Your lack of paranormal knowledge is apparent

See, that's just it, it's all very unscientific. Nobody can say what causes ghosts, or even what a ghost is. There is no consistent definition of a haunting; they're all different. Sometimes they're orbs, sometimes they're human shaped figures, and sometimes they're just electromagnetic interference. Rarely you get poltergeist activity, but researchers are even split on whether those are ghosts or pyschokinetic phenomena.

Just my $.02

[edit on 6/29/2009 by LiquidLight]

Originally posted by LiquidLight
[See, that's just it, it's all very unscientific.

I wouldnt say that. Considering my field of work I take a scientific approach to everything. I believe that most paranormal events should be investigated scientifically if we are to determine what the cause or reason they occur is.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I have Never Really Believed In Ghosts, but I have believed in UFOS/Aliens/Non-Human Intelligence on Other worlds & In Other Universes since I was six years old. As I grew Older I found evidence that they have visited earth & have been & still are in contact with some people on earth

I thought I captured A Ghost Recently, But I acted to quickly, being excited etc... And Forgot To Link The significant research that relates UFO/Alien Activity with Ghosts/Spirits.

I made some mistakes by putting some of the physical evidence on the internet too quickly.

It was laughed off as a hoax by the majority of people on www.Unexplained Mysteries.com

I admit it looks like a simple hoax, I would think it was to if someone I didn't know showed this to me, -but in reality It happened to me & the witnesses & we are not interested in hoaxes, because Hoaxes are just more Disinformation that cause more Problems/issues for the real truths to surface.

I actually had an Unexplained Experience, involving 3 credible witnesses, Physical Evidence & my family/friends backing up my claims through knowing my personality & upbringing.

Nick Pope has examined all of the physical evidence & can't explain it. He sent me the contact details of some reliable investigators/Ufologists In Australia & they are working on it now. Basically All The evidence & past investigations into this subject is leading to the fact that it is related to a "Walk-In." Involving The New Age/New Life Etc...

Once This Is all Examined properly, and the evidence is proven. I will post up the Whole True Story with the proven evidence here on ATS and through the independent media. I don't trust the Corporate Media.

I am an active member of the Zeitgeist Movement (Communications Network) & The Australian/world 9/11 Truth Movement

Cheers.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by Skyline666]

reply to post by afoolbyanyothername


we live in the physical world. Something non physical cannot be ''captured'' you're never going to find ''physical'' evidence that you can examine because there isn't any!

we have caught ghosts, it's called being possessed. If ghosts/spirits exist, chances are that they exist on a different plane of existence that occasionally the mind can tap into. So essentially you 'capture' them with your senses and inate abilities, but capturing them in some kind of primitive cage is just, well...

Originally posted by trace_the_truth
The answer is because Ghosts don't exist.

This is one of the most ignorant posts I have seen in a while. If you don't believe in ghosts that is fine however to dismiss the possibility out of hand is not right. I am a high school and college physics teacher and the more I learn the more I realize we (human civilization in general) don't know a heck of a lot.

Another thing to consider is electric and magnetic fields. We can manipulate them, calculate them, use them for work and watch their effects. We can not see them. Rarely can we feel them and often as in the case of cell phone signals, wireless lan cards and cordless phones the EM is completely invisible to us. However, it does exist. I know if I pick up my cell phone it will work.

Dismissing the possibility out of hand is wrong.

Edit: Typo

[edit on 29-6-2009 by GTORick]

reply to post by iiinvision


That is it in a nutshell. For instance, my previous example of the cell phone signal. Can you capture it? No, not really. Does it exist? You bet.

reply to post by GTORick


Reading the previous posts simply serves to highlight the crux of the "ghost existance" issue. People talk about all sorts of properties and abilities that ghosts are said to possess such as "unresolved issues"; being "immaterial, non-solid"; being "trapped" in a specific location; being "pure energy" and many other amazing properties.

GTORick above mentioned a cell phone signal as not being "capturable" but in actuallity we do that very thing every time we use a cell phone ... we "capture" the incoming signal, then process and manipulate it. And even though we can't see a cell phone signal, we still can use instruments to study it and gain a tremendous amount of knowledge regarding it's composition.
Another example would be magnetic and electric fields. We can't capture a magnetic/electric field and certainly can't see them and yet we can study their properties and have learned an incredible amount of information regarding them.

But when it comes to "ghosts", we apparently seem to have a lot of so-called "information" about them and ExPlurus-Unus above has mentioned some of them i.e. "possession"and "they exist on a different plane of existence". And yet, there is NO proof of possession let alone HOW that might happen ... and as for a different plane of existance ? what does THAT mean ? a parallel universe, perhaps ?

All this information that we "seem" to have regarding ghosts has almost become folklore and taken for granted but in fact seems to be nothing more than a conflicting and confusing morass of alleged things that ghosts are and can do.
- What exactly is a ghost made off ? Give me a real answer and not "spirit", "essence", orb or other ambiguous cop out.
- Is a ghost intelligent and self-aware ? In other words, does it retain it's original human personality, experiences and memories ? If so, how and where is this info stored within the ghost itself ? After all, we have brains that "physically" store our memories ... so what does a ghost use ?
- If a ghost can speak, does it have a larynx and if not, then how does it manipulate the air molecules to transmit sound ?
Where does a ghost obtain energy from to move, speak and interact with it's environment ? We process food to obtain our energy needs but a ghost ?
- Why are ghosts said to be associated or "trapped" within a specific location or building ? What mechanism locks the ghost to that location ? And why should a ghost even allow itself to be trapped like that ?
- If a ghost can move through solid walls, why doesn't it sink into the ground ? What mechanism supports the ghost on the ground ?
- How is a ghost created ? Whats the mechanism involved between a person dying and his ghost being created ?
- If a ghost is clothed, does that imply that clothes can also "die" and become a ghostly version of their original real life existance ? If not, where does a ghosts clothes come from and why would they EVEN need to be seen wearing clothes ? If a ghost is seen wearing trousers, can we assume that it's wearing the ghostly version of underwear beneath the trousers ?

The above are just a few of the multitude of obvious questions that spring to mind regarding the "ghost phenomena" and not one of them has even remotely been explained.

So in my opinion, if ghosts actually do exist, then they MUST be composed of "something" because they apparently interact with the world around them and with people ... which immediately implies that they MUST be capable of being examined and studied.

But the more you think about what it would take for a ghost to even exist and interact with us, the more illogical, bizarre and contradictory the entire thing becomes !

Scientists have the best, cutting edge equipment. They use this studying stuff that they deem to be of interest. It's safe to say that ghosts or the "paranormal" aren't worth it, so don't bother.

We probably could manipulate or at least get some sort of insight into ghosts and other oddities but can't because either way, we don't have cutting edge equipment.

I'm sure many ghost researchers would like to have the means to be able to study it, but they don't have million dollar budgets. They're also limited to what you can find in any standard electronic store. Even a few thousand dollars is a setback for a small scale, non funded research team.

Besides, even if they were investigated by scientists most of the information would be held from the public anyway. Chances are there are people out there that really can explain in scientific detail about ghosts and do study them, but it's probably for the US government's own military greed or something. Think back to the Nazis and their study. What they were seeking was pretty out there stuff, apparently. Several years have passed now, so who's to say what a section of your government has found out?

[edit on 29-6-2009 by Whine Flu]

reply to post by afoolbyanyothername


I think you need to re-read my post. I didn't say they weren't 'capturable'. I said they were invisible to us. Big difference.

Edit: As an aside; receiving a signal is one thing. However, the OP and discussion of ghosts leant itself to physical capture - meaning held as is and not just received. The cell phone indeed receives and translates the signal but does not 'hold it' physically or keep the signal bottled up physically.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by GTORick]

Originally posted by GTORick
reply to post by afoolbyanyothername

 

I think you need to re-read my post. I didn't say they weren't 'capturable'. I said they were invisible to us. Big difference.

Edit: As an aside; receiving a signal is one thing. However, the OP and discussion of ghosts leant itself to physical capture - meaning held as is and not just received. The cell phone indeed receives and translates the signal but does not 'hold it' physically or keep the signal bottled up physically.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by GTORick]

Ok, I stand corrected :-)

But I guess what I'm really trying to say is that irrespective of whether we can physically capture a "ghost", we should still be able to conclusively prove/disprove their existance ... and if they do exist, then we have the technology to analyze whatever it is they are composed of, to establish reliable communications with them and to create scientific "models".
I don't believe for one minute that "ghosts" would be so incredibly strange and bizarre that we couldn't come to an understanding of them.

reply to post by afoolbyanyothername


There you have it. That is the crux of what I was saying. We know really very little about our physical world. We have been lulled into believing in humanism and that science and our fellow man will save us or overcome with knowledge. Thisw subject is a perfect example.

However, with that said there is a lot of measurable effects. For example it is well known that around a 'true' ghostly/paranormal experience a metal compass will go wild and spin around like crazy. It is also well known that a room or area will get extremely cold when a paranormal experience happens which is why you always see the thermometers with 'ghost hunters'. Those are just two of the bigger examples I can think of right off the top of my head. Both are measurable and reproducible effects,

Galileo once told Price de Medici believe what your eyes tell you. People who have seen/experienced a true ghost do exactly that. The proof is they experienced it visually/audibly.

One word sums up why we don't have an understanding of them: Ignorance.

reply to post by afoolbyanyothername


Have you ever heard of Frank's box? Sorry also if I sounded abrupt.

Whats that old tale...The one about the indians before the pilgrims came to America.. It's in that movie what the bleep! The Shaman 'sensed' something was out on the water but could not see it, tho he knew it was there. Once he started seeing the tides act up and water splashing he realized something was there and finally it became clear it was boats the pilgrims arrived on. No-one could see anything because their brains had never had to grasp what a "boat" was. It wasn't until the shaman convinced them to see it, that anyone could even see it with their eyes!

Perhaps thats how ghosts work too, who knows.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by Wookiep]

plenty of ghosts who are being captured, held captive, and even used as slaves.

plenty of books, documents, references and real stories from reliable sources available all over the world

science has just become just the way an established bunch of arrogant guys to protect there own beliefs and "religion"

each time a "new so-called revolutionary idea & theory is introduced it takes sometimes up to hundreds of years before this arrogant science community start to stop ridicule it before some resources are put into actually researching it

so don't rely on "science" to be the only "truth"




[edit on 29/6/09 by IchiNiSan]

Originally posted by Wookiep
Whats that old tale...The one about the indians before the pilgrims came to America.. It's in that movie what the bleep! The Shaman 'sensed' something was out on the water but could not see it, tho he knew it was there. Once he started seeing the tides act up and water splashing he realized something was there and finally it became clear it was boats the pilgrims arrived on. No-one could see anything because their brains had never had to grasp what a "boat" was. It wasn't until the shaman convinced them to see it, that anyone could even see it with their eyes!

Perhaps thats how ghosts work too, who knows.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by Wookiep]

Don't mean to derail the thread, but I just don’t think so. I can understand not recognizing it as a big boat, but not seeing it all?


en.wikipedia.org...!

In the film, during a discussion of the influence of experience on perception, Candace Pert notes a story, which she says she believes is true, of Native Americans being unable to see Columbus's ships because they were outside their experience. According to an article in Fortean Times by David Hambling, the origins of this story likely involved the voyages of Captain James Cook, not Columbus, and an account related by historian Robert Hughes which said Cook's ships were "...complex and unfamiliar as to defy the natives' understanding". Hambling says it is likely that both the Hughes account and the story told by Pert were exaggerations of the records left by Captain Cook and the botanist Joseph Banks. Historians believe the Native Americans likely saw the ships but ignored them as posing no immediate danger.[19]

It’s also discussed here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.skeptic.com...
Ramtha's School of Quantum Flapdoodle
a film review by John Olmsted

skeptico.blogs.com...
What the (Bleep) Were They Thinking?

GTORick ...

So if ghosts can affect a compass needle, that implies they generate a magnetic field which is a form of energy. Sure that's interesting but HOW do they actually generate a magnetic field ? Whats the energy source ? A magnetic field does not appear from nowhere but is related to electronic effects at an atomic level. So that means ghosts must have some kind of atomic structure to be able to generate a magnetic field ... which in turn implies a physical form.

As for a room getting colder, that implies heat transfer from one location to another. So if a ghost can remove heat energy from its surroundings, whats the mechanism by which it accomplishes this ? How does it store this heat energy that it's removed from its surroundings ? How does it then make use of this extracted energy ?

Do you see how SCIENCE is involved here ... rather than superstition and folklore ...

Superstition and folklore is used in order to know why the ghost is here, and not how it's created. There's a difference between the two.

Here is my theory on another thread about what i think ghosts actually are.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Regards,

Mr L