We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

If by Rudyard Kipling

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

I didn't say that at all. Be very careful about putting words in my mouth, mate.

Racism as defined by modern standards (and indeed it is a fairly recent concept) was certainly commonplace in Pike's time, though. That was all I was trying to point out, along with the fact that it isn't very clever or relevant to apply anacronystic popular standards to ANY period in history.

I have. Have YOU? Do you KNOW his life's story? Have you read "Albert Pike: The Man Beyond the Monument"? How about "A Life of Albert Pike"? If not, what gives you temerity to talk about his "life's story"?



"Alleged" ?!?!?!?!?!?!? So you finally admit it, you've been giving the Masons here a lot of grief for taking up for Pike (when we know what he said) and you back your side up with what he ALLEGEDLY said?

Sorry Mint. You're credibility on this subject has been spent.



Nope. I don't agree. I believe he was a product of his time, but had he been an "out and out racist" (note there's only one "s" in the word), he would have NEVER given Thornton Jackson (Sovereign Grand Commander of the Prince Hall Scottish Rite) a copy of the Southern Jurisdiction's Rituals to help him get the Prince Hall S.R. on it's feet. In fact, he and Jackson became great friends. Nothing racist about that.



Hmmm...isn't that last part a lot like "painting everyone with the same brush"?



I don't know....I've met a few that make me wonder.....



If we did, they wouldn't be secret, would they?



Again, you've read a few web-sites, but what do you actually KNOW about Pike himself? I've listed two very good books about him above. Read them and see if you don't come to know a different Pike than Google shows you. In fact, mint. U2U me your mailing address and I will personally buy those two books and mail them to you. Seriously. Thats how passionate I am on this subject.

I think he knew darn well he was writing to a very few members of the Masonic fraternity and no one else.



Wow. You really do not know anything factual about Albert Pike. Seriously. You have no clue what drew him to Masonry or what kind of person he really was.



No, we are defending the character of someone we actually understand.



Too bad for you. As a Christian, I have been taught to be forgiving and I strive to do so. To each his own, though. Huh?



Judge and Jury, huh? You've drawn your conclusions. You've closed your mind. I guess there's no reason to continue this thread. Can't say I didn't try, though.

But if you ever decide that there may be something here that you're not comprehending, let me know. I'll be glad to help in any way I can. Seriously.

Best,

-Senrak

Be very careful of putting words in your mouth! Why? Will you contact your masonic friends in the police to pull over my car and do me for driving in a manner that upsets masons!! Grow up you silly little man. And do me a huge favour, stop calling me mate. When people read the words you wrote above they will rightly understand exactly what you meant. All the wriggling in the world wont change that.

As for freemasonry? I now believe it's a society which delights in the mysticism and secrecy that surrounds it. After years of having the upper eschelons of the law, politics and big business within it's ranks it now finds itself struggling to come to terms with modern times. It simply cannot let go of those elitist feelings which it so enjoyed in the past.
I'm not saying you're all evil! Far from it. Some of the masons I've spoken with here on ATS seem to be very likable and sincere people but for gods sake stop trying to protect and uphold the memory of Albert Pike. He was a disgusting vile human being whose racist views should be condemned by all, including masons! The very fact that you go to such lengths to condone this man hurts your beloved brotherhood.
When I first mentioned this I thought there would be a rush of masons keen to distance themselves from the views of this bigot. Instead you circled the wagons and attempted to protect him. Very sad. . .

I never read those books either, can I get mine in hardcover?

Also, I do not know much about yellow Corvette's, can you mail me one as well?

LOL!

Canary yellow? or mustard yellow?

Yea i was listening to Zeph this morning and he said the same thing i did that it wasn't your typical mason that was for a lack of a better word "the bad guys" but it was the elites at the top that were satanists.

Which is what i beleave also, i wouldn't call any of the masons on here satanists but they do excist.

Come on Mint, please do not go overboard, there is no need to be ridiculous, there is no Masonic hit squad that is actively seeking you out. We can all have a serious discussion without this denegreating into silliness-well except for me of course, I am inherently silly.



Name calling is not necessary. Plus, I think he calls you mate because he is from Australia. Apparently that is how they address one another there prior to inviting you to place a crustacean on the grill and drinking a ridiculously large malted beverage.



I disagree, I have never met a Mason who ran around saying, 'I know the pass-word of Master Mason and you do not, nyah-nyah!'. The secrecy aspect is overblown, it never had much public relavance since all of the secrets were available in print rather soon after modern Masonry was formed.



Who is coming across here as elitist? I see not one Mason saying they, or the Fraternity, are better then anyone else.



And I think your minty goodness is far from evil as well, even though I am not much of a candy person.



He was a product of his times Mint. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and many other 'revered' Founding Fathers owned slaves. This is a reprehensible thing, even more so by today's standards. They did however contribute to the making of something much better then themselves.

Do I agree with everything Albert Pike said? No, of course not. But then again there is no one who I agree with 100% of the time.



Who is condoning anything he may have said that was racist? On the contrary, I think everyone here said that this is not the view that they hold.



Once again, no one is upholding any racist viewpoints of anyone in this discussion. The man was a product of his times and it has also been demonstrated that he displayed views and actions which were decidedly non-racist.

I will take the books in what ever color they were printed.

I picked up a couple of fosters the other day to have a change in the order so to speak, I felt like I should be drinking it from a paper bag under a bridge. hangin with the homeys pullin on a 40. It was a big beer. Tasty though.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.

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There are moderation standards and the mods here are quick to nail anyone who breaks the rules. You are the one with ludicrous ideas and who needs to grow up.

Cannot let go of those elitist feelings? Really? My grandfather was a high ranking state police officer in his time, but was never a Mason. I myself am a Mason, but not on the high social scale. I know many people of influence, but I am myself just a humble buck Sergeant in the ID Army Guard.

Hmmm, of which Order do you speak? I felt like I kNew but then I realized I have no idea what in the World you are talking about.

reply to post by felonius

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hi i have some quistions about masons. i was told by my birth mom the because of my heritage it would be easier to join? is there any truth to this?

reply to post by soldier8828

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There is zero truth to this. The only way having a relative in the Masons helps is that it makes it easier for you to find a Mason to ask him to join. Otherwise you would need to go to a local lodge or contact your Grand Lodge.

Even with a relative as a Mason you of course would still need to be an upstanding member of your community and beleive in a supreme being.

[edit on 3-7-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

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will do! and as a member of the military does that help? and yes i beilieve very much in God and Jesus, although i believe "manmade" religion is corrupt....

reply to post by soldier8828

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you are well on your way. I would ask as many questions as you can before you join to make sure it is what you are looking for. It is not for everyone, but for those who are compatible, it is a lifelong journey that will guide you all the way. If I can help, please don't hesitate to ask.

Bud light, Stella, Moosehead, you know, break up the monotony. I figured someone who had a bar in his lodge would catch that right off. But then I heard about you yankees.

It is good that you asked. I would hate for you to go around thinking I was a wack job.

Good beer choices but maybe I was too subtle on my order question...

Read and rearrange the bolded letters to find the hidden meaning:




Lay off the brew, it is affecting your comprehension skills.

Or maybe drink more......

reply to post by soldier8828

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Any man may join regardless of there heritage.

reply to post by soldier8828

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Being military doesn't hurt. If the Brothers see that you are a good guy and you believe in a Higher Power they will enjoy your company and you theres.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

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Ahh. I think it was a beer low light that caused the problem I am with you now. It appears I will have to pay attention to your future posts for hidden messages. I would hate to miss some important stuff. I have a busy schedule tomorrow, wake up, take over the world, have lunch. A masons work is never done. Enjoy your 4th brother.