We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


I didn't mean that Satan and God are the same person at all. In Masonry we pray to the Great Architect of the Universe. I call him God, everyone in my lodge calls him God. There are other brothers here who have a diverse lodge with mulsems, and Jews and some other religions in them. When you asked if a satanist could join masonry, the answer would be technicaly yes,but I doubt he would last past the first question. Masonry is based on the moral lessons in life. The good ones. They don't need to be religious, but some are. I hope I cleared that up. Did you read the stuff about Pike?

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Could you be more precise and tell me the name of this supreme being?

God.

Thank you.

You are very welcome.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
No, you've got me wrong. What I'm saying is that it seems wrong that he as a christian would have to call a satanist a brother if they were both in the masons together. I'm not accusing rune of being a satanist!

I personally do not think you can be a Satanist and a Mason. One, the teachings of Masonry are disimilar to those of Satanism-ala LaVey-and in my opinion are not compatible.

Secondly, if God created Satan then Satan can not be a supreme being, his creation owes to the will of another.

[edit on 4-7-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Could you be more precise and tell me the name of this supreme being?

God.

Thank you.

You are very welcome.

Seems to be a lot of confusion about whether or not a satanist could become a member of the freemasons! A satanist, after all, believes there is one true god, Satan, the devil, Lucifer, what ever you want to call him. Carrying a belief in one true god would put him in good grace with the masonic belief in one god. It seems it doesn't matter what his name or intention is. . . Some of you have said that a satanist could join while others have said he would fail in the questioning part of the ritual. Some have even said that they wouldn't be welcome which is music to my ears.

Keeping this confusion in mind is not possible that the brotherhood already have satanists within their midst? Could that be the biggest secret that this society with secrets hides? Maybe even ordinary masons like those I often converse with here on ATS don't know all the secrets? Could it be that masons desire to do well for their fellow brothers may allow anyone with evil in mind to stay hidden within your ranks. . . After all, and I'm sorry to bring this up again, when I mentioned Pikes racist views you all jumped to defend him even though his racism is common knowledge.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Did you read my last post? I will reiterate, if God created Satan then Satan, by default, can not be a supreme being.

I am sure that you can find someone who says otherwise, but if you believe in the Biblical and Historical Satan as the Angel most loved by God and subsequently cast out of Heaven, how can he possibly be supreme?

A supreme being would have cast God out of Heaven after creating God. I do not think that there is any type of relativism that can applied also, the definition of a Supreme Being is rather black and white, either this being is the Creator of everything or it is not supreme.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Could you be more precise and tell me the name of this supreme being?

I Am, God said to Moses, that which Is, Was and Shall forever Be. But the Very God, in His unmanifested Essence, conceived of as not yet having created and as Alone, has no Name. Such was the doctrine of all the ancient Sages, and it is so expressly declared in the Kabalah. יהוה‎ (YHWH) is the Name of the Deity manifested in a single act, that of Creation, and containing within Himself, in idea and actuality, the whole Universe, to be invested with form and be materially developed during the eternal succession of ages. As God never WAS NOT, so He never THOUGHT not, and the Universe has no more had a beginning than the Divine Thought of which it is the utterance,--no more than the Deity Himself. The duration of the Universe is but a point halfway upon the infinite line of eternity; and God was not inert and uncreative during the eternity that stretches behind that point. The Archetype of the Universe did never not exist in the Divine Mind. The Word was in the BEGINNING with God, and WAS God. And the Ineffable NAME is that, not of the Very Essence but of the Absolute, manifested as Being or Existence. For Existence or Being, said the Philosophers, is limitation; and the Very Deity is not limited nor defined, but is all that may possibly be, besides all that is, was, and shall be.
Albert Pike, Morals & Dogma pp 849-850

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I'm sorry network dude my friend but Satan and God could never be the same person! That doesn't make any sense. One is the epitomy of all evil while the other is mans saviour.

The ROYAL SECRET, of which you are Prince, if you are a true Adept, if knowledge seems to you advisable, and Philosophy is, for you, radiant with a divine beauty, is that which the Sohar terms The Mystery of the BALANCE. It is the Secret of the UNIVERSAL EQUILIBRIUM:—

—Of that Equilibrium in the Deity, between the Infinite Divine WISDOM and the Infinite Divine POWER, from which result the Stability of the Universe, the unchangeableness of the Divine Law, and the Principles of Truth, Justice, and Right which are a part of it; and the Supreme Obligation of the Divine Law upon all men, as superior to all other law, and forming a part of all the laws of men and nations.

—Of that Equilibrium also, between the Infinite Divine JUSTICE and the Infinite Divine MERCY, the result of which is the Infinite Divine EQUITY, and the Moral Harmony or Beauty of the Universe. By it the endurance of created and imperfect natures in the presence of a Perfect Deity is made possible; and for Him, also, as for us, to love is better than to hate, and Forgiveness is wiser than Revenge or Punishment.

—Of that Equilibrium between NECESSITY and LIBERTY, between the action of the DIVINE Omnipotence and the Free-will of man, by which vices and base actions, and ungenerous thoughts and words are crimes and wrongs, justly punished by the law of cause and consequence, though nothing in the Universe can happen or be done contrary to the will of God; and without which co-existence of Liberty and Necessity, of Free-will in the creature and Omnipotence in the Creator, there could be no religion, nor any law of right and wrong, or merit and demerit, nor any justice in human punishments or penal laws.

—Of that Equilibrium between Good and Evil, and Light and Darkness in the world, which assures us that all is the work of the Infinite Wisdom and of an Infinite Love; and that there is no rebellious demon of Evil, or Principle of Darkness co-existent and in eternal controversy with God, or the Principle of Light and of Good: by attaining to the knowledge of which equilibrium we can, through Faith, see that the existence of Evil, Sin, Suffering, and Sorrow in the world, is consistent with the Infinite Goodness as well as with the Infinite Wisdom of the Almighty.

Sympathy and Antipathy, Attraction and Repulsion, each a Force of nature, are contraries, in the souls of men and in the Universe of spheres and worlds; and from the action and opposition of each against the other, result Harmony, and that movement which is the Life of the Universe and the Soul alike. They are not antagonists of each other. The force that repels a Planet from the Sun is no more an evil force, than that which attracts the Planet toward the central Luminary; for each is created and exerted by the Deity, and the result is the harmonious movement of the obedient Planets in their elliptic orbits, and the mathematical accuracy and unvarying regularity of their movements.

—Of that Equilibrium between Authority and Individual Action which constitutes Free Government, by settling on immutable foundations Liberty with Obedience to Law, Equality with Subjection to Authority, and Fraternity with Subordination to the Wisest and the Best: and of that Equilibrium between the Active Energy of the Will of the Present, expressed by the Vote of the People, and the Passive Stability and Permanence of the Will of the Past, expressed in constitutions of government, written or unwritten, and in the laws and customs, gray with age and sanctified by time, as precedents and authority; which is represented by the arch resting on the two columns, Jachin and Boaz, that stand at the portals of the Temple builded by Wisdom, on one of which Masonry sets the celestial Globe, symbol of the spiritual part of our composite nature, and on the other the terrestrial Globe, symbol of the material part.

—And, finally, of that Equilibrium, possible in ourselves, and which Masonry incessantly labors to accomplish in its Initiates, and demands of its Adepts and Princes (else unworthy of their titles), between the Spiritual and Divine and the Material and Human in man; between the Intellect, Reason, and Moral Sense on one side, and the Appetites and Passions on the other, from which result the Harmony and Beauty of a well-regulated life.

Which possible Equilibrium proves to us that our Appetites and Senses also are Forces given unto us by God, for purposes of good, and not the fruits of the malignancy of a Devil, to be detested, mortified, and, if possible, rendered inert and dead: that they are given us to be the means by which we shall be strengthened and incited to great and good deeds, and are to be wisely used, and not abused; to be controlled and kept within due bounds by the Reason and the Moral Sense; to be made useful instruments and servants, and not permitted to become the managers and masters, using our intellect and reason as base instruments for their gratification.

And this Equilibrium teaches us, above all, to reverence ourselves as immortal souls, and to have respect and charity for others, who are even such as we are, partakers with us of the Divine Nature, lighted by a ray of the Divine Intelligence, struggling, like us, toward the light; capable, like us, of progress upward toward perfection, and deserving to be loved and pitied, but never to be hated nor despised; to be aided and encouraged in this life-struggle, and not to be abandoned nor left to wander in the darkness alone, still less to be trampled upon in our own efforts to ascend.
Albert Pike, Morals & Dogma pp 858-861 (emphasis added)

If there is evil then it is God's will that it be so, and by it being there we can recognize that which is good and strive to do it.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Seems to be a lot of confusion about whether or not a satanist could become a member of the freemasons! A satanist, after all, believes there is one true god, Satan, the devil, Lucifer, what ever you want to call him. Carrying a belief in one true god would put him in good grace with the masonic belief in one god.

While I'm certainly not an expert on such maters, I do not believe that Satanic dogma teaches that in the beginning Satan created the heaven and the earth; And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Satan moved upon the face of the waters; And Satan said, Let there be light: and there was light. I really don't think they teach that.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Yes, I did read your last post but just like you and the other masons on here can't agree that Pike was a racist, neither would a satanist agree that their god wasn't the one true god. . .
It seems to me that masonic thinking is either black or white. There is no grey area. Masons are so cock-sure of themselves that they don't question what they have been taught in their lodges. So keen are they to rise through the ranks that they will simply accept anything which is told to them.
What amazes me about the freemasons is that you cannot even see, never mind accept, that ordinary people like me who have no masonic influence, cannot understand why the brotherhoods members will go to any lengths to not allow a fellow mason to be criticised! As soon as anyone questions the brotherhood you close ranks and get all defensive when your beliefs are put to the sword.
I don't hate masons I just can't get my head around your willingness to buy into this hook,line and sinker. I look on you as I did the people who were killed in Waco. Their belief got/gets the better of them. . .

Well firstly to the OP, good on you for being passionate about your charitable ways.

I would like to add, in my research, there are different kinds of freemasons.

I have been in a particular lodge, and I didnt know it at the time but you guys look to the East for the light , right?

now a lodge ive been in had its alter at the West end of the buildings! now I would interpret that as looking into the darkness! right or wrong?


Also knowledge hoarded for me is no knowledge at all.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.

Pike was a racist, neither would a satanist agree that their god wasn't the one true god. . .

So was Churchill, Lincoln, Che Guevara, and Malcom X.
As it's been pointed out a few time, Pike was influential in helping found the Prince Hall Lodges.

As for Satanists... you'd have to talk with them. I know that the predominant faith system involved with Satanism would be a hindrance to entering Masonry.

You are asking Christian Masons their views on the subject, and their beliefs are skewed in favor of Christianity.
Rather than being a issue of the system of Masonry, I think it's a issue of Christian faith.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

Pike was a racist, neither would a satanist agree that their god wasn't the one true god. . .

.

As for Satanists... you'd have to talk with them. I know that the predominant faith system involved with Satanism would be a hindrance to entering Masonry.

Well I know for a fact, Satanism is just a religion that was around in Europe befor the bastards of Rome enforced christinanity, slaying people in the process.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

Pike was a racist, neither would a satanist agree that their god wasn't the one true god. . .

So was Churchill, Lincoln, Che Guevara, and Malcom X.
As it's been pointed out a few time, Pike was influential in helping found the Prince Hall Lodges.

As for Satanists... you'd have to talk with them. I know that the predominant faith system involved with Satanism would be a hindrance to entering Masonry.

You are asking Christian Masons their views on the subject, and their beliefs are skewed in favor of Christianity.
Rather than being a issue of the system of Masonry, I think it's a issue of Christian faith.


[/quote

So, all masons are christian!!? Thanks for that because I could swear that a few posts back someone said that he had come across masons from other faiths? He said that all that mattered was their belief in a supreme being. . . Honestly, I bet a mason has never been run over by a car! If they dodge the traffic as well as they dodge answering an honest question then they could wander around the centre of the road all day without being hit by a car.
So far I've been told that Pike wasn't a racist, Lucifer is another name for god almighty, and that I, and others on here that question the brotherhood, are uneducated because we don't share or understand their views or beliefs. . .
How can masons who have all been taught the same rules of freemasonry all translate those rules in so many different ways? And then, considering this confusion that is clearly evident within the brotherhoods members, how can you be so absolutely sure that you've been told everything and that theres no room for hidden secrets?

Its either the height of arrogance or the height of stupidity. . .

reply to post by Mintwithahole.

So, all masons are christian!!? Thanks for that because I could swear that a few posts back someone said that he had come across masons from other faiths? He said that all that mattered was their belief in a supreme being...

My point was that the Masons you are speaking to, Augustus Masonicus, Network Dude, Josh Norton, are Christians, from what I recall.
So, they have a Christianity defined approach to Satan.


[edit on 4-7-2009 by RuneSpider]

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

So, all masons are christian!!? Thanks for that because I could swear that a few posts back someone said that he had come across masons from other faiths? He said that all that mattered was their belief in a supreme being...

My point was that the Masons you are speaking to, Augustus, Network Dude, Josh Norton, are Christians, from what I recall.
So, they have a Christianity defined approach to Satan.

No such thing as Satan, like I said, the bastard romans labeled Barbarian pagans as Satan.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Yes, I did read your last post but just like you and the other masons on here can't agree that Pike was a racist, neither would a satanist agree that their god wasn't the one true god. . .

Jesus H. Christ on his ever-loving throne. Satan is an A-N-G-E-L, he therefore can not be a God. We now return you to your regular finger-in-ear blockage.

It seems to me that masonic thinking is either black or white. There is no grey area. Masons are so cock-sure of themselves that they don't question what they have been taught in their lodges.

Why should I question what I am taught, which is Brotherly Love, Truth and Relief?

So keen are they to rise through the ranks that they will simply accept anything which is told to them.

Rise through what 'ranks'? To where? To become what? How does this occur? Please answer fully and to the best of your extensive knowledge.

What amazes me about the freemasons is that you cannot even see, never mind accept, that ordinary people like me who have no masonic influence, cannot understand why the brotherhoods members will go to any lengths to not allow a fellow mason to be criticised!

Watch closely....

I, a Mason, do not agree with Albert Pike's views on race. I do not agree, I think they are wrong. Feel better????? Did I mention that I do not agree?

As soon as anyone questions the brotherhood you close ranks and get all defensive when your beliefs are put to the sword.

Albert Pike is not a 'belief', he was a man. Masonry is not a belief, it is a Fraternity. My belief is in God.

I don't hate masons...

No, you just like poking them with a stick to get a rise.

I just can't get my head around your willingness to buy into this hook,line and sinker.

Buy into what? Explain yourself in a bit more coherent manner please.

I look on you as I did the people who were killed in Waco. Their belief got/gets the better of them. . .

Thank you, and I look on you as I do with the people who ran the Inquisition. Which would be, in my opinion, intolerant and persecutorial.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.


Why should I question what I am taught, which is Brotherly Love, Truth and Relief?

Truth for fellow brothers right?

knowledge hoarded is no knowledge at all.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
My point was that the Masons you are speaking to, Augustus Masonicus, Network Dude, Josh Norton, are Christians, from what I recall.
So, they have a Christianity defined approach to Satan.

Just to clear up, I, being of Italian ancestry, was raised to follow two doctrines, that of Roman Catholicism and to obtain all necessary major appliances by having them fortuitously fall off the back of a truck.

I have since abandoned both of these ways of life and now only believe in God in more of a Deist sense and purchase my appliances at Home Depot.







[edit on 4-7-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by Sparkey76


Doubtful, Judaism predates Rome.
While many deities that have become synonymous with Satan in Christianity, have been done so thanks in good helping with Roman Catholicism, Satan it/himself existed in the Jewish religion


reply to post by Sparkey76


You'll found that Masonic libraries are open to all comers.


reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Dully noted.
I'm still no the papers as Roman Catholic myself, always enjoyed the nearly Gregorian singing and fish fries.
I must admit, however, that "finder keepers" has been a motto my mother instilled in me as a child. It's useful when I need a pen.

Hopefully kSigMason doesn't mind me appropriating his posting style .

[edit on 4-7-2009 by RuneSpider]

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Sparkey76

 

Doubtful, Judaism predates Rome.
While many deities that have become synonymous with Satan in Christianity, have been done so thanks in good helping with Roman Catholicism, Satan it/himself existed in the Jewish religion

Yes exactly, it spread and became something slightly different, the meaning that is.


Its Rome that took on christinanity at a date later than the Empire started.

Rome re-written history as most of history that came about in Europe around the Roman empire time was from Rome, quite a biased opinion of history.

[edit on 4-7-2009 by Sparkey76]

Originally posted by RuneSpider


You'll found that Masonic libraries are open to all comers.



[edit on 4-7-2009 by RuneSpider]

Ok thank you, where can I find this information in Masonic libary's please?

[edit on 4-7-2009 by Sparkey76]