We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

Originally posted by King Seesar

When you said qabalah i thought you ment the Kabbalah, which leads me to my next question do you allow members who's religion centers around the Kabbalah to join???

Nobody is discriminated against due to their religious beliefs providing only that they believe in the existence of a Supreme Being, and the brotherhood of man.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Now we're saying that Lucifer doesn't mean, or have, satanic overtones?



It does, but only to those who are uneducated in history and theology.
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Thanks for that. The next time I'm in church I'll tell the priest that he's uneducated due to the fact that he's been preaching about the evils of Lucifer! Thats the same church which believes ands worships a supreme being, maybe not the supreme being that masons are talking about!

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


You know of Milton's work, correct? And how it's helped shape many views of Satan and Hell?

The average person's view of Lucifer has much to do with mistranslation.

Lucifer comes up in th Bible, only in reference to the King of Tyre, what's interesting is that tin the King James version, the phrase referring to the morning star.
The same is is also used for Jesus, though it is not translated to Lucifer.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


try to think of it this way, in 100 years, the word "Cheney" will likely be associated with Satan. In today's times, it's just a name of some guy. History will fix all that. Albert Pike should be read first, then discussed. Having people whom have never read it, but were told what he said by people with biased opinions, discuss it and bash his beliefs or even comment on his beliefs is ignorant to the 10th power. (IMHO)

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.


Thanks for that. The next time I'm in church I'll tell the priest that he's uneducated due to the fact that he's been preaching about the evils of Lucifer!

If your priest is talking about the "evils of Lucifer", then yeah, he's not very educated on the subject.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Now we're saying that Lucifer doesn't mean, or have, satanic overtones?

That's right. Show me where in the Bible it says that they're the same? It's more likely that Lucifer (light bringer, morning star) is another name for Jesus (also referred to as the Morning Star).

newprotestants.com...
www.godfire.net...
www.apologeticspress.org...
www.apostolic.net...

(and you'll note I'm not citing Masonic sources here... this is all stuff that's well documented by biblical scholars...)

All mason bashers take note. I've finally realised why you don't trust these guys. It's because, as the statements above show, they are truly arrogant!
We all know who Lucifer is and what he represents. And so did Pike!
I'm not saying that all masons are Luciferians, far from it, but you really should stop trying to tell us that we ordinary non masons don't know evil when we see it. And the very fact that three masons posted the same thing about Lucifer says to me that you're all well rehearsed in covering up this particular unpalitable truth.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


no Mint, the problem with statements like "Albert Pike said Lucifer so all masons must be devil worshipers." is why we know what to say in this instance. I know that is not what you said, and I understand you don't think that we all bow down to the evil cabbage lord or anything like that. But if you look at a few of the threads discussed in the past, you will see why that is. I personally hate when people speak out of hate and ignorance instead of listening and asking questions. Again, I know this is not what you did nor was it your intent. I have conversed with you before and you always seem to be very polite. I apologize if my previous post sounded arrogant. It was meant to be a stab at humor and nothing more. But if I called you a window washer every time I saw you and you actually built beach chairs for a living, after a while you would probably correct me.

reply to post by network dude


Albert Pike, by all accounts, was very well educated man. When he spoke about Lucifer he must have known how his words were going to be interpreted by future generations. My argument here is not to demonise all masons but to try and understand why Pike said such things. Surely you and the other masons on this thread must accept that whenever anti-masons talk of the brotherhood it is always Pike who is mentioned and therefore he does you more harm than good. That is why I find it astounding that masons will stick up for and protect this man.

"No apology needed my friend."

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
It's because, as the statements above show, they are truly arrogant!

Who's arrogant? I've backed up my claims with 4 sources, yet you try to belittle me rather than responding to the argument they present. Show me where in the Bible it says Lucifer and Satan are the same and I'll shut up. The simple matter is, no such text is there. It's a fabrication of 17th century poets like Milton and Vondel. That would be like saying you know that computers can download directly into someone's head because you saw it in The Matrix. It's fiction. It's pop culture. It's not what your religion was based on, so don't confuse the two!

(as far as I know, most translations of the Bible don't even contain the word "Lucifer"... King James being the primary and best known exception, and as the articles I've linked to point out, it does not mean what you think it means...)

[edit on 6/30/2009 by JoshNorton]

Illuminati like Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist can be used in such loose terms. To say any of these group have not not been Illuminated is a disrespect and I won't go there. Have the traditional Bavarian Illuminati not been a part of Freemasonry at one point in history? I know this is a fact you would love to forget because publicly it has such bad ties.

Why not stand up and embrace the root meaning? Why not educate the public instead of trying to cut off all association?

In a time where free thinking, science, mathematics, would get you killed it's no wonder we needed secret societies. It seems the way the world is headed we'll need them more than ever.

I can thank Freemasonry for it's Illuminated insight for it's part in creating this once free Republic, if it wasn't for there part I doubt they would of created such a uniquely free country. So really this is one conspiracy theory that I've grown out of. I've studied, matured and seen the truth of the matter at hand.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.


Albert Pike, by all accounts, was very well educated man. When he spoke about Lucifer he must have known how his words were going to be interpreted by future generations.

Pike is interpreted correctly by those who do honest research. Why should Pike have cared what the dishonest ones and the Mason-bashers thought?

My argument here is not to demonise all masons but to try and understand why Pike said such things. Surely you and the other masons on this thread must accept that whenever anti-masons talk of the brotherhood it is always Pike who is mentioned and therefore he does you more harm than good. That is why I find it astounding that masons will stick up for and protect this man.

I had read Pike before I became a Mason, and it was his works that made me want to become a Mason in the first place. I've heard many others say the same. Without the genius of Pike, I never would have even become a Mason.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
All mason bashers take note. I've finally realised why you don't trust these guys. It's because, as the statements above show, they are truly arrogant!
We all know who Lucifer is and what he represents. And so did Pike!

It's not "arraogance", it's simple fact. Priests normally have to have a master's degree in divinity for ordination. During theological training, they learn that "Lucifer" was added to a Latin translation of the Bible by St. Jerome. They know that the word does not appear in the original text, that the passage refers to Tigleth Pilaser, king of Babylon (not a demon), and that Jerome inserted "Lucifer" into the text in order to take a jab at his own theological opponent, St. Lucifer of Cagliari.

So I'll say again: if your priest doesn't know any of this, he isn't very educated on the subject.

Albert Pike was KKK leader. A rascist! That alone should show what type of man he was. He may have been a genius but he seems morally corrupt.
Also I really dont buy this idea that somehow the rest of the world and me have Lucifer mixed up with the devil. Apart from that, there are many who name Pike as an out and out satanist who wore a bracelet which he believed allowed him direct contact with satan. He also wrote;

"God is as man conceives him, the reflected image of man himself. . ."

If you're as evil and bigoted as Pike appears to be then it follows that Pikes god would have exhibited similar traits? He would have been evil- like the devil perhaps?

Freemasonry doesn't bother me in the slightest but when I hear them supporting this man I do tend to realise why the brotherhood gets such a bad press. Perhaps deservedly?

Here I think this guy knows a lot about the Masons.

William Schnoebelen
(Bill Schnoebelen)

EX - Satanic Priest, Catholic Priest, Witch, Satanist,
Ninety Degree Freemason, Vampire and more!

(Note: The fact that I have this article on my website does not mean that Bill Schnoebelen agrees with the content of my website)



Bill Schnoebelen lived on the dark side for many years. He was a 90 degree Freemason, a member of the Illuminati, a Satanic Priest, a Catholic Priest and even more. Then one day his monthly tithe check to the church of Satan came back from the bank with a note on the back - ``I'll be praying for you in Jesus' name ". Within a week he lost his demonic power. Later he became a Born Again Christian, and he now has his own ministry. Bill has been in ministry, mostly full-time, since 1986, and no one has yet been able to disprove any of the claims he has made about his admittedly rather bizarre history.

Bill’s timeline is baffling or contradictory only to someone unfamiliar with the strange workings of the occult/magickal mind set and with the subtle power of Satan to deceive.

Here is his timeline in brief:

Born: 1949 (raised Catholic)
Went through Catholic grade school and high school
Entered Minor Seminary at Loras College to be a priest: 1967
Introduced to the occult by a professor: late 1967
Got involved in Wicca: 1968
Made a Wiccan priest – first degree (Algard rite): 1968
Graduated from college and took a leave of absence from priesthood studies: 1971
Got a job teaching music in a Catholic high school in rural Iowa: 1971-1973
Met his priestess whom he would later marry (1972)
Ordained a Spiritualist minister in the Alliance of Divine Love: 1972
Flew to Boston to be made a priest in the Alexandrian rite of Wicca – February of 1973
Traveled to Arkansas to study under the Grand Master Druid of North America in the summer of 1973
Made a Druidic High Priest in July of 1973 – also had a witch handfasting to his wife at the same time in Zion State Park in Zion IL.
Fall of 1973, traveled to Boston MA to be made high priest (Third degree) in Alexandrian rite of Wicca
Winter of 1973, began covens in Dubuque and Davenport Iowa
Legally married by Spiritualist minister from Alliance of Divine Love: May of 1974
Moved to Milwaukee to teach large numbers of people witchcraft: August of 1974
Began involvement with Old Roman Catholic Church (ORCC) and studies for diaconate and priesthood in 1974-75
Also began studies in Blue Lodge Freemasonry and was finally made a Master Mason in 1977
About the same time (1975) as he got involved in the ORCC, he also became involved with Church of Satan – became a Second Degree Member (warlock)
During this same period, he went through York Rite Masonry and became a Knight Templar.
Later, in 1980, he went through Scottish Rite and became a 32nd degree Mason.
He was ordained a priest in the ORCC in Plainfield, IL at St. Paul’s Old Catholic church. The ordination certificate is reproduced in MORMONISM’S TEMPLE OF DOOM.
Through the Church of Satan, he became aware of more “hard core” Satanic groups and got involved with them – first the Order of the Black Ram (in Michigan) and later the Brotherhood in Chicago. This was when he began to practice some pretty heavy-duty sorcery.
In 1977-78 he began to study with the Monastery of the Seven Rays and was ultimately consecrated a Gnostic bishop by its head (see below…). The certificate is reproduced in LUCIFER DETHRONED. As a bishop, he was also charismated into the Syrio-Jacobite Orthodox episcopacy. At the same time, Bill was initiated into the "Antient and Primitive Rite of Memphis Mitzraim Freemasonry" and raised to the 90th degree of that Masonic rite.
In 1979 he was introduced to vampirism as part of his training in the dark arts and was initiated into the vampire cult in Chicago in the so-called Church of the Resurrection.
In 1980, he received a check back from the bank which he had sent to the Church of Satan for dues. A lady from the bank had written on the check, “I will be praying for you in Jesus’ name.” Within days, his life fell apart and he lost all his magical power. This crisis led us, ultimately to join the Mormon (LDS) Church…
In August of 1980, he and his wife, Sharon, were baptized LDS. He went through several church offices, including Elders’ Quorum President and Institute of Religion teacher.
In June of 1984, Bill became gloriously saved through the power of the TRUE Jesus Christ (NOT the LDS counterfeit)
In February of 1985, he formally left the LDS Church.
In July of 1986, he did his first public ministry at the Capstone Conference in Salt Lake City. That was the formal beginning of Bill’s ministry.

www.relfe.com...

Here is what happened in detail:

First of all, this timeline has been published in brief (MORMONISM’S TEMPLE OF DOOM) in 1987, so it has been out there for some time for anyone to check out. That same book contained photocopies of most of Bill’s Masonic initiation certificates, his ordinations in the Old Catholic and LDS churches, his certificate from the Church of Wicca, his Shrine certificate, etc. He tried to be as up front as he could be with this, even 20 years ago. He knew that his story was a bit hard-to-believe and confusing.

Bill Schnoebelen was born and raised Roman Catholic (1949 – 1968).

Bill was introduced to the occult by a Catholic Priest at his college. He got disillusioned with the RCC with the changes of Vatican II and drifted into the occult and ultimately white witchcraft (1968). He was initiated that year as a priest of Wicca.

He remained a Wiccan and eventually became a high priest (1973) in the Alexandrian rite in Boston MA. This was in Jim and Patricia Baker’s coven.

Along the way, for legal purposes, he was ordained a spiritualist minister (1972) in the Alliance of Divine Love by Rev. Barbara Selwa. This gave him the right to receive donations, etc. She knew Sharon and Bill were Wiccans and had no problem with it. In fact, at that time another of her ministers was a Wiccan.

In the summer of 1973, he and his priestess (soon to be wife - Sharon) went down to Arkansas to study under the “Grand Druid of North America” for 3 months of intense study. At the end of that time, they were made high priest and priestess in this tradition as well. (The “Grand Master Druid’s” name was Eli and his tradition was called Druidic Craft of the Wise or Mental Science Institute).

Bill’s High Priest certificate reproduced in TEMPLE OF DOOM1. Eli died in the early eighties and as far as we can tell, his organization morphed into a Native American Cherokee group in the 1980’s whose remnants can be found at www.goodmedicinesociety.com/gmsflow.htm.

To further complicate matters, both Bill and Sharon legally changed their names (for numerological and karmic reasons on Eli’s advice) back in 1973. Bill became Christopher P. Syn. (Documents of this name change are printed in TEMPLE OF DOOM2 ). He legally changed his name back in the late seventies at the request of his father and mother. Thus, many of his early documents from this period were in the Syn name (1973-79)

Bill and Sharon moved to Milwaukee in 1974 at the request of a local occult bookstore owner because more than 80 people wanted them to train the locals as witches. While there they met an Old Catholic priest. Bill still had a yearning to be a Catholic priest, and was messed up enough theologically by now that he saw no conflict between being a Wiccan high priest and a candidate for the Catholic priesthood. In fact, they were taught that the two “priesthood lines” were complementary – like yin and yang (Alex Sanders, the head of the Alexandrian rite of Wicca and self-styled “King of the Witches,” was also an Old Catholic bishop.)

From 75-76, Bill studied and was ordained to the Old Roman Catholic diaconate. He was ordained as an ORC deacon (document in TEMPLE OF DOOM with his signature 3) by Archbishop Francis Facione. He is still alive, and can be found at www.orccna.org...

Bill was ordained to the priesthood by Bishops Edward Stehlik and Julius Massey in Joliet, IL (Certificate and photos available). Both bishops happen to be deceased now, but he has the ordination document with their signatures. There are also photographs of the ceremony, taken at St. Paul’s Old Catholic Church in Joliet. These photos have since been publicly presented in one of Bill’s many videos, the new version of EXPOSING THE ILLUMINATI FROM WITHIN (2005).

At the same time, on the advice of Eli, Bill began studying the Masonic degrees and was made a Master Mason (1977) – document in TEMPLE OF DOOM with Worshipful Master Richard Decker’s signature4.

This is important to understand: Many of Bill’s spiritual teachers (both on this earth and supposed “spirit guides”5 ) were telling him that at the highest levels that Catholicism, Wicca and Freemasonry all blended together and he believed them, then and now; especially when Archbishop Cousins (Roman Catholic bishop of Milwaukee at that time) subsequently came out and publicly endorsed the Masons. (Bill explains how from a Biblical perspective all false religions come from the same source, the devil. Bill’s book, MASONRY BEYOND THE LIGHT, documents how most of the early Wiccan and occult leaders were also high-level Freemasons).

Once a Mason, Bill was drawn into first soft-core and then hardcore Satanism. He had been previously told that before one could get into serious Satanism, one had to become a high level Mason. It is fairly commonly known that in order to be a satanic priest, one must first be a Catholic priest. This is not as uncommon as you might think.

So, as hard as this might be to believe, Bill was simultaneously a Wiccan, a Freemason, an Old Catholic priest, and a Satanist (1976-80). You must understand that it is no great thing to become a high level Mason. All you have to do is plunk down your money and sit through a few weekends of excruciatingly boring rituals and you are a 32nd degree Mason (Scottish Rite). It takes about a month. Because Bill knew that high level Wiccans were also Masons, he saw no conflict there. Some of his brother Masons in Milwaukee (including a worshipful master of a lodge) was also occultists and Luciferians.

As far as the Old Catholic priesthood and the other things, Bill had been led to believe that the pope was secretly a Luciferian and that high level Luciferians existed throughout the Catholic Church. This has since been confirmed by other sources6.

In 1978 Bill was consecrated a bishop in the Ecclesia Gnostica Spiritualis - Gnostic Catholic Church (another branch of Old Catholicism) by Archbishop Michael Bertiaux. His consecration papers have been published in the original French in LUCIFER DETHRONED7. At the same time, Bill was made a Magister Templi (Master of the Temple) and had the 90th degree of Antient and Primitive Rite of Masonry (Egyptian) conferred.

You can find Michael Bertiaux on the web. He is still alive and still involved in Gnosticism and other forms of hardcore occult evil like voodoo. See www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8522/bertiaux.html

However, by

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Albert Pike was KKK leader.

There is not one bit of evidence that Albert Pike was ever a member of the Ku Klux Klan, much less a "leader". There are Klan documents in various museums with membership lists, but none showing the name of Albert Pike.

Furthermore, in his book "Esoterika", Pike himself wrote that besides the Masons, the only other organization he belonged to was the Oddfellows.

Also I really dont buy this idea that somehow the rest of the world and me have Lucifer mixed up with the devil.

What "rest of the world" are you talking about? I think most people understand that the story of the devil being an angel named Lucifer was invented by the poet John Milton in his epic "Paradise Lost".

Apart from that, there are many who name Pike as an out and out satanist who wore a bracelet which he believed allowed him direct contact with satan.

Well that's just swell.

He also wrote;

"God is as man conceives him, the reflected image of man himself. . ."

Where did he write that?

reply to post by Masonic Light


Not one piece of evidence that Pike was a Klan leader! Oh please. What aboutKu Klux Klan: Its Origin, Growth and Disbandment, written and edited by Walter L. Fleming. In it Fleming states information given by many former members of the order, and by their friends and relatives." Dr. Fleming states that "General Albert Pike, who stood high in the Masonic order, was the chief judicial officer of the Klan." On a page of illustrations of important founders of the KKK, Dr. Fleming places General Pike’s portrait in the center, makes it larger than the six others on the page, and repeats this information as a caption: "General Albert Pike, chief judicial officer".

Next you'll be telling me he wasn't a rascist bigot?

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Not one piece of evidence that Pike was a Klan leader! Oh please. What aboutKu Klux Klan: Its Origin, Growth and Disbandment, written and edited by Walter L. Fleming.

This has been addressed a million times here, same as the "Lucifer" hoax.

Albert Pike Was Not a Member of the Ku Klux Klan

Furthermore, you keep trying to paint Pike as anti-Christian. If that's the case, how could he join the Ku Klux Klan, which is a Christian organization and only admits Protestant Christians to membership? You can't have it both ways.




[edit on 1-7-2009 by Masonic Light]

reply to post by Masonic Light



Pike was indeed a man of opposites! He was an out and out rascist but he was not a fan of slavery. He also said;
The status of Negro Masonry in this country was perhaps never better defined than it was by Albert Pike in 1875, when he said, "Prince Hall Lodge was as regular a Lodge as any Lodge created by competent authority. It had a perfect right to establish other Lodges and make itself a Mother Lodge. I am not inclined to meddle in the matter. I took my obligations from white men, not from negroes. When I have to accept negroes as brothers or leave masonry, I shall leave it. Better let the thing drift."
No doubt the thread you reference was one of a long list of freemasons who hailed this rascist as a great man. I think not. . .